2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: clshade on November 27, 2011, 12:17:41 PM
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How do person to person sales work in Hawaii?
No FFL transfer is needed because it is happening within the state, correct?
If it is a pistol, the buyer has to get a permit to acquire. Is there some paperwork or de-registration process the seller has to do?
Thanks,
Chris
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Best bet is to meet at HPD.
Rifles transfer instantly.
Pistols, buyer goes to apply for permit to acquire. He/she needs make model, caliber, barrel length, serial #.
Two weeks later buyer and seller meet at HPD and transfer firearm there.
This is the best way to do it.
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whats to stop someone from saying they just bought it out of state?
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HPD will check their registration records.
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but who's to say that they didn't sell the gun out of state?
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but who's to say that they didn't sell the gun out of state?
Good luck. :wave:
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Thanks you guys. :)
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lol not trying to be smart just wondering
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Thanks you guys. :)
You're welcome.
Please don't take Aegis advice.
Its not worth losing your right to ever own a gun because someone gave you bad advice.
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No worries. :)
The gun in question is registered to its owner so trying to pull a fast one would serve no purpose, really. The owner is just as eager to avoid legal complications as I am.
I'm not a huge fan of the permit and registration law but as long as its the law... its the law.
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but who's to say that they didn't sell the gun out of state?
FFL paperwork.
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but who's to say that they didn't sell the gun out of state?
FFL paperwork.
you can still buy private FTF out of state though. i'm not trying to be sly or anything it just seems like a gap of info that the HPD really can't get their hands on.
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When you sell a gun that's registered in Hawaii, HPD expects you to report it. So, if you sold the gun out-of-state, they'd expect a letter to that effect.
If I were to show up to register a gun that I claimed I bought on the mainland from Bob Smith, and Bob Smith had previously registered that gun in Hawaii, you best believe that HPD is going to pick up the phone and call Bob Smith. And, should Bob Smith still be a resident of Hawaii, they're going to want to know why, exactly, ol' Bob didn't tell them he had sold his gun.
Now probably no one goes to jail, or gets any form of legal action taken against them, but it will add to the hassle.
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When you sell a gun that's registered in Hawaii, HPD expects you to report it. So, if you sold the gun out-of-state, they'd expect a letter to that effect.
If I were to show up to register a gun that I claimed I bought on the mainland from Bob Smith, and Bob Smith had previously registered that gun in Hawaii, you best believe that HPD is going to pick up the phone and call Bob Smith. And, should Bob Smith still be a resident of Hawaii, they're going to want to know why, exactly, ol' Bob didn't tell them he had sold his gun.
Now probably no one goes to jail, or gets any form of legal action taken against them, but it will add to the hassle.
No duty or obligation to HPD report the transfer of a gun, unless someone from this state is purchasing from you -- in our state. At which point they sign the permit paperwork is all. I have lots of questions on the legalities of selling guns when I am on a submarine to another person or if I were on another countries submarine or ship.
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No duty or obligation to HPD report the transfer of a gun, unless someone from this state is purchasing from you -- in our state. At which point they sign the permit paperwork is all.
You'll note I used the word "expects," not "requires." Although, if you ask them about it, they will tell you that you "have to."
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but who's to say that they didn't sell the gun out of state?
FFL paperwork.
you can still buy private FTF out of state though. i'm not trying to be sly or anything it just seems like a gap of info that the HPD really can't get their hands on.
There are always ways around things. The question is how much do you want to pay for it if you get caught.
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I was going to ask if it is a requirement for the seller to show up at HPD but when I thought about the process of transferring person-to-person firearms, I think I know the answer to my own question. HPD doesn't allow you to take the transfer forms home. You have to complete them in person. The transferor, therefore, must appear in person to sign the transfer form. Of course, if the transferor doesn't have to sign the transfer form then I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm?
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I was going to ask if it is a requirement for the seller to show up at HPD but when I thought about the process of transferring person-to-person firearms, I think I know the answer to my own question. HPD doesn't allow you to take the transfer forms home. You have to complete them in person. The transferor, therefore, must appear in person to sign the transfer form. Of course, if the transferor doesn't have to sign the transfer form then I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm?
If people are having problems with forms would be nice to know. They have already heard from me once and ended up coughing up the documents (this is when they wouldn't give me CCW applications, registration forms, and mental health waivers, permit to acquire forms, which I now have copies of all them). I think most people do it because its easy to meet up there and just sign / sign - transfer - and register. By statute though, not required.
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I was going to ask if it is a requirement for the seller to show up at HPD but when I thought about the process of transferring person-to-person firearms, I think I know the answer to my own question. HPD doesn't allow you to take the transfer forms home. You have to complete them in person. The transferor, therefore, must appear in person to sign the transfer form. Of course, if the transferor doesn't have to sign the transfer form then I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm?
There's no "transfer form." But, if the seller meets you there when you pick up your permit to acquire, he can hand it over to you and you can proceed straight to registration.
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I was going to ask if it is a requirement for the seller to show up at HPD but when I thought about the process of transferring person-to-person firearms, I think I know the answer to my own question. HPD doesn't allow you to take the transfer forms home. You have to complete them in person. The transferor, therefore, must appear in person to sign the transfer form. Of course, if the transferor doesn't have to sign the transfer form then I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm?
I've taken forms to be signed by a seller before.
As far as I know, you are allowed to take the permit to acquire with you to get signed.
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for long guns, no signature is required. as a seller, it is good to meet at hpd and witness your firearm being transferred, unless you trust or know that the buyer will register the gun... but still not required
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Ah - there is the piece I didn't know about. The SELLER signs the permit to acquire form. In the case of new sales it would be the FFL agent, correct?
That gives the State all they need to know to update their records: old owner, weapon serial number, new owner. Its not like selling a car where the seller then has to send the title stub in to verify the sale.
Makes sense that the seller would want to make sure the buyer registers!! Even if both parties don't need to be at HPD it makes perfect sense that this is a good way to do things.
OK, got it. That addresses all the questions I had about the process. Thanks again.
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I was going to ask if it is a requirement for the seller to show up at HPD but when I thought about the process of transferring person-to-person firearms, I think I know the answer to my own question. HPD doesn't allow you to take the transfer forms home. You have to complete them in person. The transferor, therefore, must appear in person to sign the transfer form. Of course, if the transferor doesn't have to sign the transfer form then I could be wrong. Can anyone confirm?
I've taken forms to be signed by a seller before.
As far as I know, you are allowed to take the permit to acquire with you to get signed.
Try asking for a CCW permit to take with you next time.
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Ah - there is the piece I didn't know about. The SELLER signs the permit to acquire form. In the case of new sales it would be the FFL agent, correct?
That gives the State all they need to know to update their records: old owner, weapon serial number, new owner. Its not like selling a car where the seller then has to send the title stub in to verify the sale.
Makes sense that the seller would want to make sure the buyer registers!! Even if both parties don't need to be at HPD it makes perfect sense that this is a good way to do things.
OK, got it. That addresses all the questions I had about the process. Thanks again.
I don't recall that an FFL seller is required to sign any transfer forms in order to physically and legally transfer firearm to a purchaser. The FFL fills out a whole bunch of paper work and hands you the firearm after you've presented your long gun permit or in the instance of a handgun, a permit to acquire that particular handgun (i.e., after waiting the required 14 days). What the seller does with the paper work after is not within my knowledge. A private party transfers is different. I do recall attempting to transfer a handgun from the Personal Representative of an estate to myself and the PR had to sign off on a form.
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Pretty sure there is a little bit of info on the back they sign.
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Ah - there is the piece I didn't know about. The SELLER signs the permit to acquire form. In the case of new sales it would be the FFL agent, correct?
That gives the State all they need to know to update their records: old owner, weapon serial number, new owner. Its not like selling a car where the seller then has to send the title stub in to verify the sale.
Makes sense that the seller would want to make sure the buyer registers!! Even if both parties don't need to be at HPD it makes perfect sense that this is a good way to do things.
OK, got it. That addresses all the questions I had about the process. Thanks again.
I don't recall that an FFL seller is required to sign any transfer forms in order to physically and legally transfer firearm to a purchaser. The FFL fills out a whole bunch of paper work and hands you the firearm after you've presented your long gun permit or in the instance of a handgun, a permit to acquire that particular handgun (i.e., after waiting the required 14 days). What the seller does with the paper work after is not within my knowledge. A private party transfers is different. I do recall attempting to transfer a handgun from the Personal Representative of an estate to myself and the PR had to sign off on a form.
The reason you don't recall is because you don't get the form back.
The FFL holder takes the form from you (white copy) in a handgun purchase.
They fill out the back and "fax" it to HPD. (some take it in person)
In either case, (long gun or hand gun) if you purchase or transfer through a FFL, they have you fill out the Federal form (4473) and they sign that and fax a copy to HPD.
You sign that form as well.
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Ah - there is the piece I didn't know about. The SELLER signs the permit to acquire form. In the case of new sales it would be the FFL agent, correct?
That gives the State all they need to know to update their records: old owner, weapon serial number, new owner. Its not like selling a car where the seller then has to send the title stub in to verify the sale.
Makes sense that the seller would want to make sure the buyer registers!! Even if both parties don't need to be at HPD it makes perfect sense that this is a good way to do things.
OK, got it. That addresses all the questions I had about the process. Thanks again.
I'll be finding out soon enough whether the transferor must actually appear at HPD to complete the transfer and/or sign any of the transfer documents. I've got a cousin who wants to transfer his handgun to me. It is registered in Hawaii and is still in Hawaii but he now lives out of country. Anybody know for sure whether his presence at HPD and/or his signature is required?
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I'll be finding out soon enough whether the transferor must actually appear at HPD to complete the transfer and/or sign any of the transfer documents. I've got a cousin who wants to transfer his handgun to me. It is registered in Hawaii and is still in Hawaii but he now lives out of country. Anybody know for sure whether his presence at HPD and/or his signature is required?
Handgun for sure, he needs to sign. ( he does NOT need to be present at HPD)
Rifle, no need to sign anything.
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Thanks. If they say otherwise, i'll tell them "No need. KK said so." :)
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Some glorious day in the future, I'm going to leave this oppressive island. When I do, I'm going to buy as many guns as I can afford, time it so that I pick them up from the gun store the day before I fly out, and never register them, just to be a prick.
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So if you sell a rifle, is there a way to remove yourself as the rifle's owner, or is it just implied that you no longer own the rifle once the new owner's registration form is processed??
There is a form that the original owner can sign or put owner info (can't recall if it's a signature or owner info) but I don't believe it's a requirement to sign off. What I do is sign or write info and call a few weeks after the transfer to ensure that the paperwork transferred, meaning the new owner is now the registered owner and that you, the seller are no longer listed as the registered owner. I personally never had an issue, but I would make that follow up phone call just to ensure the paperwork did in fact transfer. Kind of screwy but that's the process.
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One last thing. I don't think they even care about the extra form I mentioned, I believe I had to ask them for it each time.
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So if you sell a rifle, is there a way to remove yourself as the rifle's owner, or is it just implied that you no longer own the rifle once the new owner's registration form is processed??
I've bought a long rifle and just took firearm and signed receipt to HPD and they registered it right there, the previous owner did not need to come. I sold a pistol and the new buyer got the permit, I signed the back of the paper and he took it and transfered it
two ways to go about it, go the hpd with new owner and make sure its down properly, or just take down the guys info, permit, license info, address and phone number just like a dealer does in case of questions later.