2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: punaperson on June 14, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
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I read this yesterday and almost posted it then... today, what with the Bernie volunteer shooting up the Republican baseball team and all... though Buchanan's column here is more about those within government who seek to overthrow Trump via Deep State manipulations as opposed to the anarchist/commie/Socialist Democrat violence, intimidation and killing.
Are We Nearing Civil War?
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/are-we-nearing-civil-war
Excerpts:
President Trump may be chief of state, head of government and commander in chief, but his administration is shot through with disloyalists plotting to bring him down.
We are approaching something of a civil war where the capital city seeks the overthrow of the sovereign and its own restoration.
Thus far, it is a nonviolent struggle, though street clashes between pro- and anti-Trump forces are increasingly marked by fistfights and brawls. Police are having difficulty keeping people apart. A few have been arrested carrying concealed weapons.
That the objective of this city is to bring Trump down via a deep state-media coup is no secret. Few deny it.
* * * * *
Not in memory have there been so many leaks to injure a president from within his own government, and not just political leaks, but leaks of confidential, classified and secret documents. The leaks are coming out of the supposedly secure investigative and intelligence agencies of the U.S. government.
The media, the beneficiaries of these leaks, are giving cover to those breaking the law. The real criminal "collusion" in Washington is between Big Media and the deep state, colluding to destroy a president they detest and to sink the policies they oppose.
* * * * *
Trump has had many accomplishments since his election. Yet his enemies in the media and their deep state allies have often made a purgatory of his presidency.
What he and his White House need to understand is that this is not going to end, that this is a fight to the finish, that his enemies will not relent until they see him impeached or resigning in disgrace.
To prevail, Trump will have to campaign across this country and wage guerrilla war in this capital, using the legal and political weapons at his disposal to ferret out the enemies within his own government.
Not only is this battle essential, if Trump hopes to realize his agenda, it is winnable. For the people sense that the Beltway elites are cynically engaged in preserving their own privileges, positions and power.
* * * * *
He should campaign against the real enemies of America First by promising to purge the deep state and flog its media collaborators.
Time to burn down the Bastille.
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I read this yesterday and almost posted it then... today, what with the Bernie volunteer shooting up the Republican baseball team and all... though Buchanan's column here is more about those within government who seek to overthrow Trump via Deep State manipulations as opposed to the anarchist/commie/Socialist Democrat violence, intimidation and killing.
Are We Nearing Civil War?
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/are-we-nearing-civil-war
Excerpts:
President Trump may be chief of state, head of government and commander in chief, but his administration is shot through with disloyalists plotting to bring him down.
We are approaching something of a civil war where the capital city seeks the overthrow of the sovereign and its own restoration.
Thus far, it is a nonviolent struggle, though street clashes between pro- and anti-Trump forces are increasingly marked by fistfights and brawls. Police are having difficulty keeping people apart. A few have been arrested carrying concealed weapons.
That the objective of this city is to bring Trump down via a deep state-media coup is no secret. Few deny it.
* * * * *
Not in memory have there been so many leaks to injure a president from within his own government, and not just political leaks, but leaks of confidential, classified and secret documents. The leaks are coming out of the supposedly secure investigative and intelligence agencies of the U.S. government.
The media, the beneficiaries of these leaks, are giving cover to those breaking the law. The real criminal "collusion" in Washington is between Big Media and the deep state, colluding to destroy a president they detest and to sink the policies they oppose.
* * * * *
Trump has had many accomplishments since his election. Yet his enemies in the media and their deep state allies have often made a purgatory of his presidency.
What he and his White House need to understand is that this is not going to end, that this is a fight to the finish, that his enemies will not relent until they see him impeached or resigning in disgrace.
To prevail, Trump will have to campaign across this country and wage guerrilla war in this capital, using the legal and political weapons at his disposal to ferret out the enemies within his own government.
Not only is this battle essential, if Trump hopes to realize his agenda, it is winnable. For the people sense that the Beltway elites are cynically engaged in preserving their own privileges, positions and power.
* * * * *
He should campaign against the real enemies of America First by promising to purge the deep state and flog its media collaborators.
Time to burn down the Bastille.
10-frigging-4! :shaka:
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Sounds like the author advocates a civil war of sorts in order to avoid civil war.
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I posted something similar back in February:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26590.msg233822#msg233822
I believe it is possible. It really depends on how far the left is willing to take all this. And based on the shooting and targeting of Republicans I would say it may have just started today. It is hard to tell if this was the straw that broke the camels back or if it may take more. But guys like Bernie and POS like HRC had better stop inciting violence or they may be held at fault for inciting a riot if one breaks out based on their words.
I know this sounds paranoid, but being an old, white, fat conservative (not republican) I feel like I am the target of the left after today's shooting. And if I were to stand up in public for my conservative values I am putting my life at risk. Or worse putting my wife's life at risk. ;D ;D ;D
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I don't think we are anywhere near that but it's sure being talked about more and more. The hateful rhetoric and narrative the left is spewing is taking a toll and people are just getting feed up and don't know what to believe anymore. Of course the MSM is pouring as much gasoline on the fire as they can, day after day, non-stop. The stuff they are spewing, and in many cases lies, is tearing the country apart.
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TBH its the only path being left open,
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will it be a fair fight?
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/09/11/3A326A4D00000578-3918838-image-a-64_1478692521912.jpg)
(http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161109045042-election2016-wellesley-4-exlarge-169.jpg)
(http://assets.thepoliticalinsider.com.s3.amazonaws.com/content/uploads/2016/11/CwzZyxMUoAA5qQd.jpg)
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/katy-perry-tells-one-love-manchester-love-conquers-fear-and-love-conquers-hate-6684967/ (http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/katy-perry-tells-one-love-manchester-love-conquers-fear-and-love-conquers-hate-6684967/)
‘It’s not easy to always choose love, is it?,’ Katy Perry asked the crowd
‘Especially in moments like these. It can be the most difficult thing to do.
‘But love conquers fear and love conquers hate, and this love you choose will give you strength and it’s our greatest power.’
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will it be a fair fight?
People who don't like trump out number the people who do.
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People who don't like trump out number the people who do.
How do you know that?
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How do you know that?
He doesn't know. How could he?
He just trolled you.
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He doesn't know. How could he?
He just trolled you.
Shhhh. I'm trolling the troll..... Watch him say, "The popular vote!" :rofl:
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Shhhh. I'm trolling the troll..... Watch him say, "The popular vote!" :rofl:
:worship: :worship: :worship:
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People who don't like trump out number the people who do.
I've seen you shoot...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He doesn't know. How could he?
He just trolled you.
How do you know that?
I believe in science and the polls? Not muh feelings like yourselves.
And yes popular vote by the literal numbers means he got less votes. 1 vote per person = less people. Simple math folks.
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I've seen you shoot...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just gotta not use that glock or fix it. My ar is on point though.
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Just gotta not use that glock or fix it. My ar is on point though.
It's not the glock...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I believe in science and the polls? Not muh feelings like yourselves.
And yes popular vote by the literal numbers means he got less votes. 1 vote per person = less people. Simple math folks.
FACTS::
1. The polls you love were so far off in November, they were a total joke. They haven't been that wrong since Reagan won. Just like when Reagan ran, the polls showed the Republican candidates way behind. The last week before election, the polls converged. Pollsters did that to hedge their bets so that if they were wrong, the deviation wasn't so huge as to destroy their credibility completely.
2. Only 55% of voting-age Americans cast votes in the 2016 general election. So you have absolutely no idea who the other 45% of voters prefer. All you can say about the mythical popular vote is "of the 55% of voters who turned out, 48.2% preferred Clinton over the 46.1% who preferred Trump." 2.1% is not a massive difference, and it is well within the margin of error of all the polls. Therefore, you can't use the election poll numbers to extrapolate to the entire voting population.
3. You said "PEOPLE" don't like Trump, not "voters." Therefore, the number of people who may actually like Trump but can't vote due to age, citizenship status or other factors could be even higher than you can measure.
4. As far as feeling go, you have argued nothing but feelings -- from climate change to Trump not being under investigation. You can't stand to be proven wrong, so you argue as if the person who gets the last word in wins. That's very emotional.
You can't prove your statement, because the facts don't support you. Try again, Troll boy!
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People who don't like trump out number the people who do.
And yes popular vote by the literal numbers means he got less votes. 1 vote per person = less people. Simple math folks.
As above per Mr. Jackson, but short (TLDR) version:
Assumption: Everyone voted. Proof, or even evidence: None. Simple logic folks.
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I'm gonna keep score on who's right and who's wrong since that seems so important to troll boy. So far we have:
Flapp Jack = 1
Puna Person = 1
Troll Boy = 0
Simple math... people
Let's see if troll boy can make a come back... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I'm gonna keep score on who's right and who's wrong since that seems so important to troll boy. So far we have:
Flapp Jack = 1
Puna Person = 1
Troll Boy = 0
Simple math... people
Let's see if troll boy can make a come back... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
What's with all the hostility?! You KNOW what he MEANT... :crazy:
Don't we all know by now that his words cannot be taken literally? I mean, they CAN be, but then they'd be wrong...
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People who don't like trump out number the people who do.
This is a very difficult thing to quantify for a number of reasons.
1. "Like" is not something that is generally measured in polls. Polls often measure if someone will vote a certain way or whether they approve, not whether they "like" the individual.
2. "Like" cannot be accurately inferred from votes or approval ratings.
Case in point, someone may not like Trump but still have voted for him or approve of the job he is doing.
Now if you want to modify your statement to argue that those who do not approve of Trump outnumber those who do then you could use recent approval ratings to support your argument. However good luck proving how many people "like" Trump.
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Not without something big happening. If something like another Great Depression happened and people started to go hungry I can see a civil war starting.
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Would it be Civil War or Revolution ?
If the extreme Left started a violent movement against the Government, or parts of the Government, how many extreme Right folks would join the Government to fight the Left ?
Who would the Government arrest in such a case ?
Would they deputize the Extreme Right which pretty much hates them as much as the Left ?
Would it be both sides against the middle (the Government)?
The common enemy.
Would the Left start a full scale direct guerrilla attack on the Right ? (Or vice versa)
Would the Racists joining the Right swing the Minorities to the Left ?
Interesting...
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Would it be Civil War or Revolution ?
If the extreme Left started a violent movement against the Government, or parts of the Government, how many extreme Right folks would join the Government to fight the Left ?
Who would the Government arrest in such a case ?
Would they deputize the Extreme Right which pretty much hates them as much as the Left ?
Would it be both sides against the middle (the Government)?
The common enemy.
Would the Left start a full scale direct guerrilla attack on the Right ? (Or vice versa)
Would the Racists joining the Right swing the Minorities to the Left ?
Interesting...
I think it would be a civil war.
What makes you think that the left has not already started direct attacks on the right? I believe this shooting is only the beginning.
What makes you think the racists would join the right? I see the left as being racist much more than the right.
JMHO
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I think it would be a civil war.
What makes you think that the left has not already started direct attacks on the right? I believe this shooting is only the beginning.
What makes you think the racists would join the right? I see the left as being racist much more than the right.
JMHO
I find it hard to imagine an actual civil war anytime soon.
So many states with so many dynamics, who would be fighting who? Could you unify enough liberals from across the country to where they could actually fracture the country?
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I believe the civil war will proceed the next big economic collapse and will caused by the succession of leftist states who think that their way is better and they can do better without the right holding back progress.
I can see this happening in the next 10-20 years
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....... We live in one of those leftist states. Hypothetically, What would you Should this occur tomorrow?
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....... We live in one of those leftist states. Hypothetically, What would you Should this occur tomorrow?
Leave,
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If the extreme Left started a violent movement against the Government, or parts of the Government, how many extreme Right folks would join the Government to fight the Left ?
The government and the left (extreme or not) are essentially the same these days, particularly in leftist stes like HI, NY, CA, MA, NJ, etc.
Witness the poleeeces refusing to stop liberal thugs beating their enemies in Calf and Oregon.
If liberals here start shooting at cars with "veteran" license plates, do not expect the poleece to worry so much about it other than a token response.
If someone targets Obozo/liberal bumper stickered cars, watch out............
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Interesting times. Republicans supporting a NY elitist with multiple marriages and a history of supporting liberal causes. Democrats supporting a hawkish southern Mcarthyist ex-first lady who's deep in bed with Wall Street. Americans are so used to losing no matter who wins that we are willing to flip the script just to try something different.
The whole thing is so depressing people are actually fantasizing about civil war.
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I believe the civil war will proceed the next big economic collapse and will caused by the succession of leftist states who think that their way is better and they can do better without the right holding back progress.
I can see this happening in the next 10-20 years
How do you think it would play out? The governor of California orders the national guard to attack Texas? A grass roots group of lefties attack Arizona and lefty states do nothing to help?
I think that as divided as we are, that the left would have trouble getting the US military to attack another state or state national guard. A lot can happen in 20 years of course.
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Leave,
[/quote you're going to leave the farm & go where?
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Leave,
[/quote you're going to leave the farm & go where?
He is from the UK so he could go back home. I already figured things will get bad and moved out of the city, which is basically ALL of Oahu to a remote part of Puna. Even Big Island people have told me I live in the boonies, LOL.
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He is from the UK so he could go back home.
Fuck that i would rather die. America is my home,
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I find it hard to imagine an actual civil war anytime soon.
So many states with so many dynamics, who would be fighting who? Could you unify enough liberals from across the country to where they could actually fracture the country?
Yes it is hard to imagine an actual civil war occurring anytime soon. I think it truly depends on how conservatives/republicans/independents respond to having a target on their back. So from what I have seen, I have seen the conservatives/republicans/independents respond to 8 years of the Bush administration with democrats in control of the senate for 6 of those years and 8 years of the Obama administration watching Obama rule by executive order and they responded by voting in Trump. And you are now witnessing how the left/democrats/liberals/progressives are responding. To my way of thinking some of them have overstepped the bounds of the law and have incited all the violence we have seen against the conservatives/republicans/independents. As long as the conservatives/republicans/independents continue to respond by using the ballot box there will probably never be a civil war as I see it. But if they begin to respond in kind like the left has, we will begin to see lines drawn.
I don't think you are going to see a civil war in the way you are imagining it as state against state. Though I can see a scenario where a handful of states will try and secede. I am thinking it is going to be more in lines with the old stories of the Hatfields vs McCoys. In other words, brother against brother, families against family, neighbor against neighbor. How would you feel if your daughter came home from school beat to a pulp because she is whatever color you are and because her daddy is a crazy nut job gun supporting republican. BTW, it does not matter whether you are a republican or not. You are automatically labeled that because of your support for 2A. And when you go to her school to complain about her not being protected from this shit they tell you what do you expect? How would you feel if you were a republican wanting to play baseball and some fanatic guy came up and shot you just because he hates you just because you are a republican? The hate rhetoric is being ratcheted up on both sides. However, the left is going way overboard and IMHO crossing the line of inciting hatred and violence.
With all of this said, would more leftists move to the coasts to avoid the right? And vice versa? Already see that especially in Kalifornia. Just like here in Hawaii there are no republicans running against the democrats in some districts now. Which means every year they become more one sided and more radical. And every year the people lose more rights. I don't see enough states becoming so fractured as in your vision. Yet. But I think it is happening as we speak. Maybe not in our lifetime. Hopefully never in anyone's lifetime.
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Fuck that i would rather die. America is my home,
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I am curious why you left the UK and ended up here.
What was the primary motivation?
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Fuck that i would rather die. America is my home,
Is the UK that bad? I didn't like when I visited in 1973, but my daughter lived there from 2010 to 2013 and loved it. She lived on the USAF base outside of London. Anyway, glad you are here.
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Getting back to topic now.
I'm going to make a wild prediction that before the country descends into civil war, some jihadis are going to commit a horrific act of violence or sabotage.
That would unite the country against a common foe.
kind of sounds like a movie plot...
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Nope.
Is the population content?
I think so.
People are still shopping albeit not in malls but online.
Sports are still being played. People employed. People buying stuff. People hatching quails. The Hokulea came back.
Even though the rail is a public works disaster in terms of financial mismanagement - people are not rioting. People here just don't care as much as they should.
Our congress men and women are fighting Trump, traveling to Syria and ...fighting Trump! No words of sympathy for Sen. Scalise if anyone noticed from our delegation - as noted from duly authorized media networks KHON and the like liberal outlets of Hawaii nei
So there's no excuse to buy more guns and ammo - sorry to ruin your TEOTWAWKI fantasies.
Life goes on as normal.
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some jihadis are going to commit a horrific act of violence or sabotage.
That would unite the country against a common foe.
The way many liberals talk and act, they would be on the muzzie's side. But, that would clarify things nicely for the rest of us.
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The way many liberals talk and act, they would be on the muzzie's side. But, that would clarify things nicely for the rest of us.
... :rofl:
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I am curious why you left the UK and ended up here.
What was the primary motivation?
Sex.
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Is the UK that bad? I didn't like when I visited in 1973, but my daughter lived there from 2010 to 2013 and loved it. She lived on the USAF base outside of London. Anyway, glad you are here.
Imagine a place just like America, Now imagine that same place if Hillary won, Now imagine that same place without a constitution.
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Yes it is hard to imagine an actual civil war occurring anytime soon. I think it truly depends on how conservatives/republicans/independents respond to having a target on their back. So from what I have seen, I have seen the conservatives/republicans/independents respond to 8 years of the Bush administration with democrats in control of the senate for 6 of those years and 8 years of the Obama administration watching Obama rule by executive order and they responded by voting in Trump. And you are now witnessing how the left/democrats/liberals/progressives are responding. To my way of thinking some of them have overstepped the bounds of the law and have incited all the violence we have seen against the conservatives/republicans/independents. As long as the conservatives/republicans/independents continue to respond by using the ballot box there will probably never be a civil war as I see it. But if they begin to respond in kind like the left has, we will begin to see lines drawn.
I don't think you are going to see a civil war in the way you are imagining it as state against state. Though I can see a scenario where a handful of states will try and secede. I am thinking it is going to be more in lines with the old stories of the Hatfields vs McCoys. In other words, brother against brother, families against family, neighbor against neighbor. How would you feel if your daughter came home from school beat to a pulp because she is whatever color you are and because her daddy is a crazy nut job gun supporting republican. BTW, it does not matter whether you are a republican or not. You are automatically labeled that because of your support for 2A. And when you go to her school to complain about her not being protected from this shit they tell you what do you expect? How would you feel if you were a republican wanting to play baseball and some fanatic guy came up and shot you just because he hates you just because you are a republican? The hate rhetoric is being ratcheted up on both sides. However, the left is going way overboard and IMHO crossing the line of inciting hatred and violence.
With all of this said, would more leftists move to the coasts to avoid the right? And vice versa? Already see that especially in Kalifornia. Just like here in Hawaii there are no republicans running against the democrats in some districts now. Which means every year they become more one sided and more radical. And every year the people lose more rights. I don't see enough states becoming so fractured as in your vision. Yet. But I think it is happening as we speak. Maybe not in our lifetime. Hopefully never in anyone's lifetime.
I certainly could imagine a sort of sectarian violence between political "gangs." Bombings of political targets for example, lynch mobs, etc. I think conservatives would win though! Scary to think about though.
Heck, if a state tried to secede would the USA fight a war to stop it? A little different from the whole country splitting in two as we saw in the American Civil War. I think our society and respect for law and order would, for the most part, prevent any large scale uprising. It would have to be to the point that the military and/or cops are willing to fight amongst themselves. I guess the only way to get a decently accurate picture would be to look at civil wars in other 1st world countries and see how they developed. Turkey is fairly modern and the had a coup attempt through the military. That is possible in practice but our structure is set up as such that it would be difficult for the military to assume control. So many interesting hypotheticals.
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(http://i.imgur.com/px5iBVu.jpg)
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I certainly could imagine a sort of sectarian violence between political "gangs." Bombings of political targets for example, lynch mobs, etc. I think conservatives would win though! Scary to think about though.
Heck, if a state tried to secede would the USA fight a war to stop it? A little different from the whole country splitting in two as we saw in the American Civil War. I think our society and respect for law and order would, for the most part, prevent any large scale uprising. It would have to be to the point that the military and/or cops are willing to fight amongst themselves. I guess the only way to get a decently accurate picture would be to look at civil wars in other 1st world countries and see how they developed. Turkey is fairly modern and the had a coup attempt through the military. That is possible in practice but our structure is set up as such that it would be difficult for the military to assume control. So many interesting hypotheticals.
The only thing I will say here is probably Kalifornia being the most likely to try. I don't really see it as happening. Especially since the U.S. as a whole has so much to lose from Kalifornia leaving the union. However, my personal thoughts are to let them go (CalExit) and see how long they can last before rampant inflation and the devaluation of their currency causes them to start begging for money from the World Bank (and maybe the U.S.). Let's face it, they are in debt way over their heads currently. I think it would only get worse if they seceded. I would laugh and cry. I would laugh to watch them fail and I would cry because so much of my family will have to suffer through it. JMHO
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Reminds me of many of the discussions we have here.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/can-the-country-come-back-from-toxic-discourse-971022916002
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Reminds me of many of the discussions we have here.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/can-the-country-come-back-from-toxic-discourse-971022916002
Those two are part of the problem. And they want to discuss if the country can come back from toxic discourse? They are part of the toxic discourse. I can tell them how they can help, quit with the toxic discourse!!!
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(http://i.imgur.com/px5iBVu.jpg)
Ha. The irony and Ponzi scheme of "gangsta" rap is that these artists that portray the gangsta lifestyle are out of the "hood" once they make their money. Their fan base are the homies still in the hood while rappers like Snoop are waving bye and moving on up like the Jeffersons.
How many gangstas send their kids to USC?
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Reminds me of many of the discussions we have here.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/can-the-country-come-back-from-toxic-discourse-971022916002
Mika's a moron (As is her fiance), (barely) masquerading as someone who has something of value to say that anyone else would care about.
Mika: [Donald Trump] is trying to undermine the media and trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsens, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job.
https://youtu.be/OJ9ce-yMEfc
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I suspect that Trump watches Morning Joe so he can watch Mika (plus the interviews with the Senate and House members). Personally, I don't watch the politician interviews because they only spout the party line and I don't learn anything. The exceptions are McCain and Franken. They're always entertaining.
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could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job.
An extraordinary glimpse of what is behind the curtain with the leftist media.
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An extraordinary glimpse of what is behind the curtain with the leftist media.
Yeah, and when she issued a "clarification" of that glimpse, she claimed that she was referring to something that didn't exist in the three sentences she uttered. Other than that, good cover. Moron. Liar.
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I read quite a bit of the left wing media. I don't watch these morons nor Rachel Maddow. They are too sensationalized for me. I get a better idea of what the left is really thinking and doing from better, more direct sources.
What really makes the leftist MSM heads explode are DJT's Tweets. Oh my gosh they go bat shit crazy every Tweet he lets out. I believe it is truly because the MSM cannot control the content and therefore can be seen as liars towards the unwary who might actually believe DJT over the MSM. This to me explains the constant attacks and attempts to disrupt DJT's agenda. Along with trying to cover up for the previous administration.
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Rachel and the rest of the MSNBC crew are sensationalized so I don't watch them. The MSM claim to despise the Trump tweets but are secretly in love with them. They add fuel to their segments or punchlines. I think they would be okay with no more WH news briefings as long as Trump continues his 4 am poop tweets.