2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: 2ahavvaii on February 23, 2018, 09:58:47 AM
-
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-deputy-waited-outside-160046902.html
President Donald Trump slammed a deputy police officer who failed to enter Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School while gunman Nikolas Cruz was at large, calling him a "coward" who lacked the "courage" to fulfill the duties of his job.
“He’s trained his whole life… but when it came time to get in there and do something, he didn’t have the courage or something happened," Trump told reporters on Friday. "But he certainly did a poor job, there's no question about that."
Broward County Deputy Officer Scot Peterson resigned from his post on Thursday after word got out that the 54-year-old had been the only armed deputy on the scene and had done nothing to apprehend Cruz as he killed 17 people. Instead, Peterson waited outside for "upwards of four minutes," according to Sheriff Scott Israel and video footage capturing the incident.
"I am devastated," Israel said at a press conference. "Sick to my stomach. He never went in."
---------------------------
Just curious what you guys think about this.
-
This is my opinion: the cop is sworn to serve and protect. But that doesn't include rushing headlong into a situation where the odds of succeeding isn't too good. Taking on shooter(s) armed with ARs with only your 9mm and no backup aint the smartest thing in the world to do. In dangerous situations normally, cops call and wait for backup before rushing in. A handgun, concealed or not, is your best defensive option against someone armed with a rifle, but in no ways does it make sense to rush someone head-on. In a defensive situation, with the element of surprise on your side, you potentially can stop the shooter (such as if teachers or other school employees were armed).
I really don't think hanging the guy for not charging in alone (and probably getting mowed down) is fair.
-
Granted he shouldn't rush in, but his report says he didn't hear the gun shots, just saw kids running out of the building. At that point, he should have entered and tried to locate the sounds. Because he obviously knew it was a shooter because the fleeing kids told him. Just my 2 cents.
-
From the article:
"Peterson's lack of response might be said to fly in the face of the "good guy with a gun myth," which contends that if only the right person were equipped with a firearm, they would be able to stop a gunman and thwart mass killings like the one that occurred in Parkland, Florida, last week. Research shows that—in addition to it being potentially counterproductive for there to be multiple armed people in the same place as an active shooter—humans are prone to a "freeze" response when faced in situations that threaten our survival, often preventing us from action. "
The author failed to realize that this is LE and he froze. So if we can't rely on LE who can we rely on?
-
From the article:
"Peterson's lack of response might be said to fly in the face of the "good guy with a gun myth," which contends that if only the right person were equipped with a firearm, they would be able to stop a gunman and thwart mass killings like the one that occurred in Parkland, Florida, last week. Research shows that—in addition to it being potentially counterproductive for there to be multiple armed people in the same place as an active shooter—humans are prone to a "freeze" response when faced in situations that threaten our survival, often preventing us from action. "
The author failed to realize that this is LE and he froze. So if we can't rely on LE who can we rely on?
I think there's also a big difference between being in the middle of the shit and being on the outside looking in. If youre on the outside, you have the choice whether or not to put yourself in harm's way, while if youre in the middle, you're grasping at any options to protect your and the life of the kids. In that situation, being armed and trained is far better than trying to hide and use your body as a shield for the kids.
-
I think there's also a big difference between being in the middle of the shit and being on the outside looking in. If youre on the outside, you have the choice whether or not to put yourself in harm's way, while if youre in the middle, you're grasping at any options to protect your and the life of the kids. In that situation, being armed and trained is far better than trying to hide and use your body as a shield for the kids.
Seems like its always the teachers who are in the middle. So common sense, arm the teachers.
-
Florida and Columbine teach us that one armed resource officer is not sufficient for a large school. Solution: Authorize and train all faculty who volunteer to carry and properly use a concealed firearm. There needs to be armed faculty near every possible entrance, including the administrative office.
Florida teaches us that training is critical. I don't have any information on this deputy's training, but if he'd been regularly trained on active shooter and hostage situations, he wouldn't have to think what to do. He would know the steps in order, and following them on "autopilot".
True that none of us knows how we'll react in a stressful, life-or-death situation. However, regular training ensures that tunnel vision and adrenaline rush won't be all your mind is focused on.
There were students and faculty who protected others and lost their own lives doing it. They were unarmed, but that didn't stop them from doing what they knew was right. The Deputy knew there was a shooter, but he did nothing. I have to wonder what he did in a normal day to keep the school safe. Why was he getting paid to be there?
I predict this guy will have to either leave the state, or he'll commit suicide. There's little chance he'll be able to live with what he did otherwise.
-
I get that you guys want to arm the teachers and all, but self defense is a personal choice. Most like to rely on 911, we like to rely on 1911. All a personal choice.
I'd definitely support teachers being able to concealed carry. Ignoring how the world works today is not an excuse anymore.
-
He had one job...
-
This is my opinion: the cop is sworn to serve and protect. But that doesn't include rushing headlong into a situation where the odds of succeeding isn't too good. Taking on shooter(s) armed with ARs with only your 9mm and no backup aint the smartest thing in the world to do. In dangerous situations normally, cops call and wait for backup before rushing in. A handgun, concealed or not, is your best defensive option against someone armed with a rifle, but in no ways does it make sense to rush someone head-on. In a defensive situation, with the element of surprise on your side, you potentially can stop the shooter (such as if teachers or other school employees were armed).
I really don't think hanging the guy for not charging in alone (and probably getting mowed down) is fair.
I agree here. Just because hes a cop doesnt mean hes a hero. I'm sure these school PD guys are just given the position on their way out the door to retirement and are in no capacity capable of dealing with an AR wielding individual. How manpower is allocated should be looked at here as well.
I know I'd feel safer with my kids at school with proper armed security rather than being target practice for a madman.
-
I hope that I would be "heroic" in that situation, but it is difficult to predict how I would act. However, given the job he signed up for, the training he had, and the equipment he was given . . . as the deputy's boss said he should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."
I agree that one element to reducing casualties is removing "gun free zones" and allow concealed carry to those who wish to (including here). Concealed carry has had positive results, it was a CDC funded study during Obama that found that guns were used defensively 500,000 to 3,000,000 per year.
-
The author failed to realize that this is LE and he froze. So if we can't rely on LE who can we rely on?
From the NY Post...
The sheriff’s deputy who failed to engage the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School “believed he did a good job” because he called in the location of the massacre and gave a description of the shooter, a top union official said Thursday.
School resource officer Scot Peterson, who resigned in disgrace from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, was “distraught” about the shooting that killed 17 people — but believed he did his duty, according to the president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association.
“He believed he did a good job calling in the location, setting up the perimeter and calling in the description (of Cruz),” said the union official, Jim Bell.
During a press conference, Peterson was lambasted by his sheriff, Scott Israel, for not engaging shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz last week as he slaughtered students and staff at Douglas High School in Parkland.
The union head said he didn’t want to second-guess Peterson — but strongly suggested that failing to take on Cruz was a mistake.
“We have to act, even if that means risking our lives to save many, many more lives. I would demand that from our union members,” said Bell, still a working deputy.
“You’re listening to an execution every time you hear the rifle shot.”
Sheriff Israel suspended Peterson without pay before the 33-year vet abruptly retired.
Peterson was not an association member, but sheriff’s brass asked Bell to contact him with the bad news.
-
From the NY Post...
The sheriff’s deputy who failed to engage the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School “believed he did a good job” because he called in the location of the massacre and gave a description of the shooter, a top union official said Thursday.
School resource officer Scot Peterson, who resigned in disgrace from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, was “distraught” about the shooting that killed 17 people — but believed he did his duty, according to the president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association.
“He believed he did a good job calling in the location, setting up the perimeter and calling in the description (of Cruz),” said the union official, Jim Bell.
During a press conference, Peterson was lambasted by his sheriff, Scott Israel, for not engaging shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz last week as he slaughtered students and staff at Douglas High School in Parkland.
The union head said he didn’t want to second-guess Peterson — but strongly suggested that failing to take on Cruz was a mistake.
“We have to act, even if that means risking our lives to save many, many more lives. I would demand that from our union members,” said Bell, still a working deputy.
“You’re listening to an execution every time you hear the rifle shot.”
Sheriff Israel suspended Peterson without pay before the 33-year vet abruptly retired.
Peterson was not an association member, but sheriff’s brass asked Bell to contact him with the bad news.
"Standing outside the building's entrance for 3-4 minutes" is now considered "setting up the perimeter?" Good to know.
"...calling in the description (of Cruz)?" Really? That means he had eyes on the shooter. I seriously doubt he had the time or clarity to stop students and ask them for a description.
If he could see the shooter well enough to give a description, he was close enough to end it.
They say the shooter evaded capture at the school by walking out with the crowd of kids. If the Cops arriving were given such a great description of Cruz, I would think the Cops arriving would have prevented him from leaving -- you know, as he walked through the "perimeter" the Deputy established.
So much bullshit in so few words.
-
From the NY Post...
The sheriff’s deputy who failed to engage the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School “believed he did a good job” because he called in the location of the massacre and gave a description of the shooter, a top union official said Thursday.
School resource officer Scot Peterson, who resigned in disgrace from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, was “distraught” about the shooting that killed 17 people — but believed he did his duty, according to the president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association.
“He believed he did a good job calling in the location, setting up the perimeter and calling in the description (of Cruz),” said the union official, Jim Bell.
During a press conference, Peterson was lambasted by his sheriff, Scott Israel, for not engaging shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz last week as he slaughtered students and staff at Douglas High School in Parkland.
The union head said he didn’t want to second-guess Peterson — but strongly suggested that failing to take on Cruz was a mistake.
“We have to act, even if that means risking our lives to save many, many more lives. I would demand that from our union members,” said Bell, still a working deputy.
“You’re listening to an execution every time you hear the rifle shot.”
Sheriff Israel suspended Peterson without pay before the 33-year vet abruptly retired.
Peterson was not an association member, but sheriff’s brass asked Bell to contact him with the bad news.
securing the perimeter has not been SOP since Columbine
SOP now is to advance and engage the shooter, without waiting for backup...
-
They did just have a active shooter scenario a few days prior right?
There's a district in Ohio that the PD is giving out 50 CCW classes for teachers. In 1 hour, 150 teachers signed up. The chief was on the news about this.
-
And, it gets worse ....
CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred
When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland,
Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to
find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer,
had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside
the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn
and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro?amp&__twitter_impression=true
I have a feeling the Sheriff isn't going to be in office for much longer.
-
Depends what their policy is on active shooters and what type of training they received. The majority of the fault could be with the department.
-
Deputy is not issued a pistol to hold his pants up.
Shots fired in a target rich environment is reason to immediately enter the area after calling in the information.
He works there and should be familiar enough with the layout to enable a reasonably tactical search.
-
Deputy is not issued a pistol to hold his pants up.
Shots fired in a target rich environment is reason to immediately enter the area after calling in the information.
He works there and should be familiar enough with the layout to enable a reasonably tactical search.
Like I said, he called in a description of the shooter. If he could see the shooter that well, he had the tactical advantage of having the shooter in sight. I hope that video is leaked or released to the public. It'll support or eliminate a lot of second guesses as to how well/poorly he reacted.
-
And, it gets worse ....
CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro?amp&__twitter_impression=true
I have a feeling the Sheriff isn't going to be in office for much longer.
if that's the truth, that's a different story... 1 cop, I can understand not entering. But not 4 cops, with 4 they definitely should be rushing the building. Like macsak said, after columbine, they're supposed to enter without waiting for swat, fbi, etc to show up.
-
They're all fucking cowards and deserve to lose their jobs.
-
Seems like its always the teachers who are in the middle. So common sense, arm the teachers.
This is how a teacher would protect their students handgun vs AR. Need to set up an ambush around a blind turn or doorway, close quarters. An AR is stronger than a concealed carry handgun pretty much in all ways, except close quarters.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-14bbfe358fe5ea6b3325c711e16751ab)
-
This is how a teacher would protect their students handgun vs AR. Need to set up an ambush around a blind turn or doorway, close quarters. An AR is stronger than a concealed carry handgun pretty much in all ways, except close quarters.
The most dangerous place in any room you're clearing is behind doors and furniture, especially in or near corners.
If I were the teacher, I would have 2-3 students hiding behind a large table or desk on one side of the room to attract the shooter's attention - about where you have them drawn. When he entered the room. I'd be right behind him -- hiding behind the door or other concealment, like a cabinet next to the entrance.
He'd be down before he gets a foot past the open door.
It all depends on the time you have. Best idea is lock and barricade the door and cover the windows. That should allow some time to get set.
-
This is my opinion: the cop is sworn to serve and protect. But that doesn't include rushing headlong into a situation where the odds of succeeding isn't too good. Taking on shooter(s) armed with ARs with only your 9mm and no backup aint the smartest thing in the world to do. In dangerous situations normally, cops call and wait for backup before rushing in. A handgun, concealed or not, is your best defensive option against someone armed with a rifle, but in no ways does it make sense to rush someone head-on. In a defensive situation, with the element of surprise on your side, you potentially can stop the shooter (such as if teachers or other school employees were armed).
I really don't think hanging the guy for not charging in alone (and probably getting mowed down) is fair.
I haven't seen any news story with enough information for me to really judge.
I know modern police have been trained to attack the shooter as soon as possible but I don't know if this guy was trained to do that. I don't know if he was scared stiff or if he was just asleep on duty.
I know I would feel shame in his position but I try not to judge until I have more information. It is easy to stand back and say I would have rushed in but when faced with the dread of such a situation who knows how we will all act?
-
I hope that I would be "heroic" in that situation, but it is difficult to predict how I would act. However, given the job he signed up for, the training he had, and the equipment he was given . . . as the deputy's boss said he should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."
I agree that one element to reducing casualties is removing "gun free zones" and allow concealed carry to those who wish to (including here). Concealed carry has had positive results, it was a CDC funded study during Obama that found that guns were used defensively 500,000 to 3,000,000 per year.
Got a link to that study? I had heard the FBI estimated 60,000 times a year.
-
Got a link to that study? I had heard the FBI estimated 60,000 times a year.
2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as
offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million
per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”
Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/#ixzz57zAVRadN (http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/#ixzz57zAVRadN)
-
Dana Loesch was at the CNN Town Hall in Florida seated next to the Broward County Sheriff.
She Tweeted:
The sheriff called this "standing up for students."
I hope he gets the irony between his Deputies' lack of protecting students and his comment.
-
"Some of you men are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you'll all do your duty. ...... When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do."
General George S. Patton
5 June 1944
-
Depends what their policy is on active shooters and what type of training they received. The majority of the fault could be with the department.
Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/
Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…
Excerpts:
A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.
The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:
Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.
(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/sheriff-israel-hillary-clinton-robert-runcie.jpg)
-
Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/
Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…
Excerpts:
A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.
The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:
Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.
Based on the article, it appears the same lenient policies that kept Treyvon Martin from becoming a juvenile offender in the system also kept Cruz from suffering the consequences of his bad behavior.
Broward announced broad changes designed to mitigate the use of harsh punishments for minor misbehavior at the beginning of this school year. While other districts have amended their discipline codes, prohibited arrests in some circumstances, and developed alternatives to suspension, Broward was able to do all these things at once with the cooperation of a group that included a member of the local NAACP, a school board member, a public defender, a local sheriff, a state prosecutor, and several others. In early November, The Miami Herald reported that suspensions were already down 40 percent and arrests were down 66 percent.
-
SOP now is to advance and engage the shooter, without waiting for backup...
From what I have seen in recent years, the cops are like other organized armed groups. Overwhelming numbers before doing anything.
Texas Rangers, they ain't.
-
A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.
Who is that space alien??
-
Who is that space alien??
(left to right) Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, Hillary Clinton, Broward County School Superintendent Robert Runcie
-
you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do."
Thought no modern cop, going home safe each night is the mantra drilled in by their unions. Killing dogs and drunks lying on their stomach is as far as the courage takes them.
Union tells them to take no risk, they are not required by law to do so. To do more might hazard their pension and risk legal action.
-
Thought no modern cop, going home safe each night is the mantra drilled in by their unions. Killing dogs and drunks lying on their stomach is as far as the courage takes them.
Union tells them to take no risk, they are not required by law to do so. To do more might hazard their pension and risk legal action.
SCOTUS has deemed that police have no duty to protect.
Bart: ...By the power invested in me by the honorable William J. Le Petomane...
Bart: ...I hereby assume the duties of sheriff in and for the township of Rock Ridge.
Reverend: Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's not let anger rule the day! As your spiritual leader, I implore you to pay heed to this good book and what it has to say!
Reverend: Son, you're on your own.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
-
Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/
Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…
Excerpts:
A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.
The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:
Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.
(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/sheriff-israel-hillary-clinton-robert-runcie.jpg)
I often wonder what could have been done based on the warning signs.
People say this guy was weird, and they thought he would be the type to shoot up the place.
He had a large number of police calls to his residence for behavioral issues
He apparently made some level of threats towards this type of incident.
Is this enough to put him on a no-buy list?
Is it enough to lock him away in a mental health facility for a period of time?
Is it enough to block his civil rights in any way?
Specifically, what is the course of actions? Should the school or police have asked the court to consider a mandatory mental health evaluation? Should he be entered into some NCIC database so he would show up when doing a background check?
If the cops did the very least and went to the boys house to talk to him and he denied planning any sort of event, then what do they do?
When looking at these incidents I hear so many accounts of "warning signs" but I have a hard time finding whether any of them would have justified taking away his civil rights.
Examples:
He was very quiet
He was weird
He didn't like others
People didn't like him.
Heck, I could have been one of those guys people at school would have said would be the one most likely to shoot up a school.
-
Flappjackson / Moosed / DarmokatJalad / Mauidog,
I don't think he changed his handle 4 times.
Whose talking to me....no one.
Just an observation.
:popcorn: : :geekdanc:
( your Google-fu is awesome though so please don't take your ball and go Home. just play nice)
-
Based on the article, it appears the same lenient policies that kept Treyvon Martin from becoming a juvenile offender in the system also kept Cruz from suffering the consequences of his bad behavior.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/21/its-too-late-broward-county-school-board-beginning-to-admit-their-mistakes/
-
Deputy was an SRO, so it is likely he went to ALERRT and would know how to respond to an active shooter. He was also KMA with 30 years in and retirement eligible. I guess that can play with your mind when you are not in a life and death situation.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/ZuuHZtm.jpg?1)
-
If they’ll start to arm teachers, does that mean they’ll make it legal for librarians to use “silencers”?
-
(https://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2018-02/204460_5_.png)
-
I’m not qualified to say if he failed in his job or is a chicken or is a pos. With that said I’m fairly sure the sheriffs dept has a lot of money for training whether it be education on our laws, rights, whatever! I’m also sure there is a written job description and pledge they take to protect and serve! When all said and done and the final report of the investigation is in, if he’s proved not fulfilling his responsibilities and failed the school and those who perished in this incident what good was all that money they spent on training, and the oath to protect and serve! Then law enforcement is failed and not the 2nd amendment!
-
This is my opinion: the HPD cop is sworn to serve and protect Integrity-Respect-Fairness. (How's that working out ? :crazy: ) But that doesn't include rushing headlong into a situation where the odds of succeeding isn't too good. Taking on shooter(s) armed with ARs with only your 9mm and no backup aint the smartest thing in the world to do. In dangerous situations normally, cops call and wait for backup before rushing in. A handgun, concealed or not, is your best defensive option against someone armed with a rifle, but in no ways does it make sense to rush someone head-on. In a defensive situation, with the element of surprise on your side, you potentially can stop the shooter (such as if teachers or other school employees were armed).
I really don't think hanging the guy for not charging in alone (and probably getting mowed down) is fair.
So A firefighter should not rush into a burning building to save lives ?
Our enlisted men and women shouldn't clear a house or walk a road where IED"s are known to be ?
Humane Society should not capture bigger dogs ?
Do Your Frick'n Job. You knew the risk when you took it ! :closed:
On the other side of the realm, see my "Be Afraid " post. :shake: :shake: :shake:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30418.0
I’m not qualified to say if he failed in his job or is a chicken or is a pos. With that said I’m fairly sure the sheriffs dept has a lot of money for training whether it be education on our laws, rights, whatever! I’m also sure there is a written job description and pledge they take to protect and serve Take notes after the fact ! When all said and done and the final report of the investigation is in, if he’s proved not fulfilling his responsibilities and failed the school and those who perished in this incident what good was all that money they spent on training, and the oath to protect and serve! Then law enforcement is failed and not the 2nd amendment!
SCOTUS has judged that civil servants (LEO, Government Agency, CPS etc...) have no obligation to protect
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/courtrulingsonpoliceprotection.php#axzz589mWmLQx
On a side note, I understand there may be many placed in these positions who got there by participating in the D.A.R.E Program in schools, most likely placed there for passing LEO enlistment but are basically "Conscientious Objectors"
-
(https://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2018-02/204517_5_.jpg)
-
http://tribunist.com/news/deputies-told-not-to-enter-florida-high-school-during-mass-shooting-unless-they-had-body-cameras/
According to the report, “sources near the Broward County Sheriff’s Office,” said that deputies that arrived or were present at the high school, located in Parkland, Florida, were instructed not to enter the building “unless their body cameras were turned on."
Ingraham went on to state that none of the deputies had body cameras with them at the time of the incident, “so they did not enter the building or engage the shooter.”
-
Just in case anyone forgot. Police have no duty to protect you.
https://www.copblock.org/27067/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-you/
Unless you are rich, of course. They you can bribe them and enjoy the benefits of your own publicly-funded private army.
-
Who better to be issuing tactical orders than the woman formerly in charge serving papers on people? One victim, his family, and their attorney believe mistakes were made and are litigating for damages. And, we learn, as part of the series of totally rational responses we have seen here, they are going to tear down the building where it happened (again). Wise use of taxpayer dollars for sure. :crazy:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article203015289.html#1
Deputies were told to set up ‘perimeter’ around Parkland shooting. That’s not the training
The Broward Sheriff’s Office captain who initially took charge of the chaotic scene at a Parkland high school where 17 people were killed told deputies to form a perimeter around the deadly scene — which they did instead of going in to confront the shooter, according to a partial BSO dispatch log obtained by the Miami Herald.
Capt. Jan Jordan, commander of BSO’s Parkland district, gave the order, the log shows, identifying her by her police call sign.
Broward Sheriff Scott Israel has said BSO training and nationwide active-shooter procedure call for armed law enforcement officers to confront shooters immediately rather than secure a scene.
Before being appointed to command Parkland, Jordan was assigned to BSO’s civil division, which serves subpoenas and injunctions, according to her online biography.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article203661689.html
Teen shot five times at Stoneman Douglas High plans to sue BSO, school system
A 15-year-old Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooting survivor and his family have put Broward County authorities on notice that they will sue to seek money damages to help cover the cost of his recovery.
Attorney Alex Arreaza filed the letter on behalf of Anthony Borges, who was shot five times, including in both of his legs.
“These kids at this school were let down at just about every level,” Arreaza said.
The two-page letter was sent Monday to notify various Broward agencies, including the Broward Sheriff’s Office, of the Borges’ intent to sue.
In the letter, Arreaza says more should have been done to protect the students and teachers.
“The failure of Broward County Public Schools and of the Principal and School Resource officer to adequately protect students, and in particular our client, from life-threatening harm were unreasonable, callous and negligent,” he wrote in the letter. “Such action or inaction led to the personal injuries sustained by my client.”
Arreaza told the Herald that there was a breakdown on every level.
-
CASE CLOSED: Head of commission investigating Parkland shooting says armed staffer could have stopped Nikolas Cruz
So what they’re saying here is a good guy with a gun could have stopped a bad guy with a gun,
which is what we already know. But it’s good to see it coming from the head of the commission
investigating the Parkland shooting.
Via Miami-based Patricia Mazzei, New York Times, quoting Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri
who is heading the commission investigating the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in
Parkland, Fla.
Nikolas Cruz had to reload “several times”:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/08/10/case-closed-head-of-commission-investigating-parkland-shooting-says-armed-staffer-could-have-stopped-nikolas-cruz/
So far, the Sheriff, the school, the FBI and the school security guard have been proven to have dropped the ball in preventing and stopping this shooter.
But, "NRA!!!!"
:crazy:
-
The problem is that he was a good guy with a gun getting close to retirement and he's too old for this shit.
-
The problem is that he was a good guy with a gun getting close to retirement and he's too old for this shit.
You assume he was a good guy.
-
And you assume he wasn't? Usually the bad guys shoot the innocent and the good guys shoot the bad guys so guess he was neither.
-
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "
-
And you assume he wasn't? Usually the bad guys shoot the innocent and the good guys shoot the bad guys so guess he was neither.
I made no claims either way. You did.
Usually? Who decided that?
-
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/new-layer-of-armed-security-added-to-florida-school-1298227779720
-
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/new-video-shows-school-cop-scot-peterson-hiding-as-gunman-shoots-parkland-students/ar-BBMUpqA?ocid=spartanntp