2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Inspector on September 05, 2018, 05:56:50 AM
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Milsurp Morality:
https://www.full30.com/video/31524a735f6aa0b9d0891e153434c9e7?utm_source=system&utm_medium=email&utm_content=iv8888&utm_campaign=subscribers
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone in war?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone who is/was our enemy?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed Americans?
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I can answer all three questions with one answer...Ainokea what the gun was used for before I owned it.
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On a related issues, it's sad that they scraped the USS Enterprise, the greatest war machine from WW2. Some said that its a warrior and would be disrespectful to turn it into a museum and have tourists walk through it all day long. I think there would be no better honor. I believe the Mighty Mo is owned by the non profit and so far, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.
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You would never really know anything about it's history, so my conscience is clear.
Aka, plausible deniability.
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I have an 1851 Colt Navy that was definitely used in the Civil War. It doesn't work but it's a damned cool piece of history and that's how these guns should be viewed. I have no moral qualms about owning historical weapons that were used to kill opposing forces. That being said I am not a collector so chances of me seeking them out are slim but I'd like to own an M1 Garand eventually.
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On a related issues, it's sad that they scraped the USS Enterprise, the greatest war machine from WW2. Some said that its a warrior and would be disrespectful to turn it into a museum and have tourists walk through it all day long. I think there would be no better honor. I believe the Mighty Mo is owned by the non profit and so far, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.
Agree 100%. In the age of whitewashing and erasing history, it has never been more important to teach the next generations about the sacrifices of their forefathers.
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being its just a tool, wouldn't bother me. might be interesting to know the history if that's possible
my dad had a Luger from WW2 which he was given to him by a widowed neighbor that he helped around the house when he was much younger when he lived on the mainland
she didn't have much to pay him, so she offered him anything he wanted around the house and he selected the Luger
over the years of my dad moving around, his brother held on to it and eventually "lost" it.
would have been a cool firearm to have
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Doesn't bother me. But to each their own. My grandma GAVE AWAY our family samurai sword in the 70's because it had bad juju (killed people).
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Doesn't bother me. But to each their own. My grandma GAVE AWAY our family samurai sword in the 70's because it had bad juju (killed people).
isn't the Samurai sword supposed to take the spirit of who it kills?
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isn't the Samurai sword supposed to take the spirit of who it kills?
Yes, that's why my grandma gave it away. I'm super pissed. To buy a brand new authentic one will cost you big bucks, if you can find a sword maker. So the one we had was a family sword for generations.
Many swords in Japan were given up after WWII and were family swords. My friends dad was a translator in Japan during the sword confiscation. Many soldiers were crying, but understood. He did meet a jap general and felt so bad that my friends dad said he will but his sword in the back and take it home later. Then at a later date, return it back to the general. When he went back to where he left the sword, someone else took it for themselves.
My friends dad spoke little to no japanese, but had a full jap name. So the army made him a translator, even when he told them he can't speak. Then he got called to the Korea War, but had enough points to get out. But because he was 1 of the few translators left, his CO told him, if you wanna get out, find a replacement to go to Korea. And he still didn't speak japanese well. So he found a guy from the Big Island who had no family to take his spot. The transport plane that took the new translator and the general crashed and all on board died.
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I've never given this "morality" issue a second thought. However, I have seen a few guns for sale that had obvious blood stains on them and I've never bought any of those.
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I thought about it before and I don't have a problem with it. Its the person shooting it and not the gun. And for most, the person behind the gun is usually just doing their job.
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You know, my first thought is that it wouldn't bother me. Much of my collection is milsup, and probably saw service. It's just the nature of the beast.
But were you to really personalize it... for example, were someone to kill one of my loved ones, would I want to own that gun? Pretty sure I wouldn't.
I guess "it depends."
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Milsurp Morality:
https://www.full30.com/video/31524a735f6aa0b9d0891e153434c9e7?utm_source=system&utm_medium=email&utm_content=iv8888&utm_campaign=subscribers
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone in war?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone who is/was our enemy?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed Americans?
Nice to have a weapon with some history.... :thumbsup:
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I have an 1851 Colt Navy that was definitely used in the Civil War. It doesn't work but it's a damned cool piece of history and that's how these guns should be viewed. I have no moral qualms about owning historical weapons that were used to kill opposing forces. That being said I am not a collector so chances of me seeking them out are slim but I'd like to own an M1 Garand eventually.
Likewise.... I own a Smith Carbine that was carried by a corporal of the 8th WV Cav under Gen. Buford @ Gettysburg. The providence was authenticated and documented in 1966. All cartoches are clear and the carbine is rated at about 85%. Relatively clean and shiny bore with a little pitting in the throat. Locks up tight and shoots really nice (I don’t believe in wall hangers). I take it out twice a year and put about 20 down range. Not sure if it was used to “kill” anyone but with its history and connection to Buford, it wouldn’t surprise me. Upon my demise, it will be donated to the NRA firearms museum.
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I have 4 Russian Mosin-Nagant rifles and a Mosin-Nagant revolver.
Since these were dated in the 1920s-1940s, it's more than reasonable to assume the weapons were carried into battle and re-arsenaled prior to storage.
They could have been used to kill, been carried by someone who was killed, or both.
I'm actually more intrigued by these weapons being a part of history than worried about what they may have been used for.
If these weapons were used by a serial killer, like Son of Sam or the Beltway Snipers, that would be a bit disturbing. But, I'd get over it if the price was right. :geekdanc:
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I remember the scene from Deuce Bigalow where the guy collected items that had killed people. I wouldn’t want one if it was confirmed to have killed someone or I knew that it did. If it’s a milsurp and I didn’t know origins, all good.
The “real” katana market is super sketchy and nearly impossible to navigate. The “real” ones are considered national treasures and illegal to export. There’s a large market for sword already exported, but have to know a lot to be able to avoid those rebuilt or otherwise salvaged. I was into them for a while. Best bet for US resident is Chinese made swords. CAS Hanwei makes some of the best and I have two. One nicer one and another practical one that is meant to practice cutting techniques.
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I remember the scene from Deuce Bigalow where the guy collected items that had killed people. I wouldn’t want one if it was confirmed to have killed someone or I knew that it did. If it’s a milsurp and I didn’t know origins, all good.
The “real” katana market is super sketchy and nearly impossible to navigate. The “real” ones are considered national treasures and illegal to export. There’s a large market for sword already exported, but have to know a lot to be able to avoid those rebuilt or otherwise salvaged. I was into them for a while. Best bet for US resident is Chinese made swords. CAS Hanwei makes some of the best and I have two. One nicer one and another practical one that is meant to practice cutting techniques.
Didn't know the real ones are illegal to export from Japan. Good to know.
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Guns don’t kill people, people kill people
The end
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Anyone remember the video of a few years back with the purported gun store opening in downtown New York and the (fake) proprietors eventually revealing to the "customers" (turned out they were actors) who were interested in a particular gun that it had been used in a crime... I think they may have claimed Sandy Hook or Columbine. And then the pretend "customers" got all bent and offended and abhorred. It was presented as an example of something about "gunz=badz". Once it came out, very shortly, that it was fake it was ridiculed even more than when some people thought it was real.
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I have 4 Russian Mosin-Nagant rifles and a Mosin-Nagant revolver.
They could have been used to kill, been carried by someone who was killed, or both.
Fortunately you dont have to worry about the former as the later was much more likely to happen.
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I doubt my 1942 MN 91/30 was used in combat. I used to own a Chinese T53 carbine that was in poor condition when I bought it. They coulda picked it out of the mud in Vietnam. Someone had etched “Yuri” in the stock. Never know...
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isn't the Samurai sword supposed to take the spirit of who it kills?
The primary weapon for the samurai was the yari/spear; very rarely did they use their swords, and if they did, they likely utilized the wakizashi the most during the warring period, in order to decapitate their fallen enemies as trophies. The katana (in battle) was a last ditch weapon.
During the peaceful period before the Meiji era, both katana and wakizashi evolved into more ceremonial / status symbols for the samurai, Until they were eventually banned during the Meiji restoration.
The whole "absorb the soul" thing is likely just an over-dramatization of the samurai culture. Most samurai after the warring period did not utilize their swords in combat, and most actually only resulted to testing the quality and sharpness of their blades on dead prisoners.
Yes, that's why my grandma gave it away. I'm super pissed. To buy a brand new authentic one will cost you big bucks, if you can find a sword maker. So the one we had was a family sword for generations.
Many swords in Japan were given up after WWII and were family swords. My friends dad was a translator in Japan during the sword confiscation. Many soldiers were crying, but understood. He did meet a jap general and felt so bad that my friends dad said he will but his sword in the back and take it home later. Then at a later date, return it back to the general. When he went back to where he left the sword, someone else took it for themselves.
My friends dad spoke little to no japanese, but had a full jap name. So the army made him a translator, even when he told them he can't speak. Then he got called to the Korea War, but had enough points to get out. But because he was 1 of the few translators left, his CO told him, if you wanna get out, find a replacement to go to Korea. And he still didn't speak japanese well. So he found a guy from the Big Island who had no family to take his spot. The transport plane that took the new translator and the general crashed and all on board died.
Look at Cheness swords; very beautiful functional pieces at a very cheap price
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I don't attach morality to objects so to all the questions I would say I don't care.
If I may pose a question in response,
Could you shake the hand of an enemy?
Could you have a beer with one who killed Americans?
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I don't attach morality to objects so to all the questions I would say I don't care.
If I may pose a question in response,
Could you shake the hand of an enemy?
Could you have a beer with one who killed Americans?
Would YOU have a beer with Obama, drone-killer of American citizens without due process?
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Look at Cheness swords; very beautiful functional pieces at a very cheap price
Those look like decent swords at reasonable prices. I think my practical sword was around that price range, but you can definitely tell the quality difference between the levels as well as in the finer details like the hamon.
I have a couple of katanas and a shinobi (basically ninja sword). They were all much heavier than I had thought when I first started my research on them. Knowing what I know now, I were to get a sword for more "practical" reasons, I would get a wakizashi.
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Would YOU have a beer with Obama, drone-killer of American citizens without due process?
I don't drink beer, but I would be willing to have a hard cider with him.
Not really as extreme an example as I was thinking of though.
So could you? How about someone worse... someone like Kim Jyong Un?
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I don't drink beer, but I would be willing to have a hard cider with him.
Not really as extreme an example as I was thinking of though.
So could you? How about someone worse... someone like Kim Jyong Un?
:stopjack:
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I don't drink beer, but I would be willing to have a hard cider with him.
Not really as extreme an example as I was thinking of though.
So could you? How about someone worse... someone like Kim Jyong Un?
I don't think there are any Democrat politicians I'd have a beer with, even if they were
buying. I like beer but not bad company.
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I don't think there are any Democrat politicians I'd have a beer with, even if they were
buying. I like beer but not bad company.
I avoid having drinks, lunch or anything else with Liberal friends unless I'm prepared to get stuck with the check -- or at least pay for most of the rounds.
Some behaviors are predictable.
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Nice to have a weapon with some history.... :thumbsup:
I feel the same. In a weird way I would feel proud to have such a piece in my possession.
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I avoid having drinks, lunch or anything else with Liberal friends unless I'm prepared to get stuck with the check -- or at least pay for most of the rounds.
Some behaviors are predictable.
Funny you should mention that.
When I lived in San Diego near my youngest brother, he and a few of his buddies and I would go out for beers at a local No San Diego pub about once a week. Custom was to rotate the picking up the bill. Most all his buddies were good to go. My brother (a liberal lawyer) most often copped some sort of excuse why he should not pay.
He did not know that his buddies smirked and nodded behind his back as they expected the check dodge from him.
Were he not my brother, I would have nothing to do with him,
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I don't think there are any Democrat politicians I'd have a beer with, even if they were
buying. I like beer but not bad company.
Hmmm. I could sit down with just about anyone and find something entertaining to talk about.
Wouldn't have to be politics.
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Funny you should mention that.
When I lived in San Diego near my youngest brother, he and a few of his buddies and I would go out for beers at a local No San Diego pub about once a week. Custom was to rotate the picking up the bill. Most all his buddies were good to go. My brother (a liberal lawyer) most often copped some sort of excuse why he should not pay.
He did not know that his buddies smirked and nodded behind his back as they expected the check dodge from him.
Were he not my brother, I would have nothing to do with him,
I can top that.....
We had an Air Force Captain (I was one, too) who was married to a woman who was also making good money. DINKS -- "Double income, no kids".
First Friday of each month, we'd have "Officer training" for our division at the all ranks club. Basically the training was an excuse for Happy Hour -- training lasted 15 minutes most months.
Anyway, each time we went out, this captain would collect all the money and pay the tab with his credit card. Not a big deal. We figured it was a free loan until the bill came due, or maybe he was racking up reward points.
We're talking about 20 or so officers, some with spouses/guests ponying up their share of the check. About the 6th or 7th time he collected the cash, one of our other Captains looked over as he signed the credit card receipt. To be helpful, she said, "If you're not sure about the tip, 20% should be about $XX.XX."
His reply: "I don't believe in tipping." :wtf:
All that time, he was collecting everybody's cash INCLUDING TIPS and stiffing the servers.
By pocketing the tip money, we were basically paying for his food, drinks, and a bonus of whatever was left from the tips -- all for the privilege of his company.
Some people.
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Hmmm. I could sit down with just about anyone and find something entertaining to talk about.
Wouldn't have to be politics.
Some of us are easily entertained. :geekdanc:
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I don't think there are any Democrat politicians I'd have a beer with, even if they were
buying. I like beer but not bad company.
Normally I would sadly agree with this. As this is what our country has come to in most cases. However I really like my state representative (For Kapolei) Sharon Har. Even though she is a democrat she is very much a conservative in most (not all) of her views. And where she is a little more liberal leaning I agree with what she is doing in most (not all) cases. She holds numerous talk stories throughout the house sessions including before and after. She keeps us informed of the basic goings on. She also surveys her constituents to find out what we feel is important topics that need addressing. She is very approachable and responds personally to my e-mails. And of course she is pro 2A.
She is one democrat politician I would love to sit down and have a beer with. :thumbsup:
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Some of us are easily entertained. :geekdanc:
Some of us don't have so much hate in our heart that we are unable to hang out with people who have different political beliefs.
:stopjack:
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Some of us don't have so much hate in our heart that we are unable to hang out with people who have different political beliefs.
:stopjack:
LOL! I'm sure you have Conservative friends.
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I want to say that as far as sitting down with someone from the left side of the spectrum (other than a politician) I have no qualms about sitting down and having a beer or socializing with them. I don’t have to talk politics. And if the other person agrees not to talk politics then all is good. I found that the true liberals are very much like myself. We can always find common ground whether political and discuss politics like adults or agreeing to stay away from politics. It is the leftists/progressives that have a problem with me due to my conservative values and libertarian political beliefs. They are the ones that refuse to not talk politics and they are the ones that insist on engaging due to their anger and rage. I have personally seen and experienced it with family and friends. Nothing to the effect of physical violence but there has been plenty of raising voices on their part and separation on my part due to their lack of control.
I cannot control how they feel and act. I can only control myself. So as long as there are people that are out of control, there won’t be sitting down with them.
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I want to say that as far as sitting down with someone from the left side of the spectrum (other than a politician) I have no qualms about sitting down and having a beer or socializing with them. I don’t have to talk politics. And if the other person agrees not to talk politics then all is good. I found that the true liberals are very much like myself. We can always find common ground whether political and discuss politics like adults or agreeing to stay away from politics. It is the leftists/progressives that have a problem with me due to my conservative values and libertarian political beliefs. They are the ones that refuse to not talk politics and they are the ones that insist on engaging due to their anger and rage. I have personally seen and experienced it with family and friends. Nothing to the effect of physical violence but there has been plenty of raising voices on their part and separation on my part due to their lack of control.
I cannot control how they feel and act. I can only control myself. So as long as there are people that are out of control, there won’t be sitting down with them.
"There's no reason we can't be civil. . ." - Leonidas
https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/ae639f9a-66d9-4aab-9abe-8b945ed277fa (https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/ae639f9a-66d9-4aab-9abe-8b945ed277fa)
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I would have a beer with any politician, even crazy Maxine, this way I can tell them what I and many think about them. And ask them "The fucks your problem" (Training Day joke).
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I just inherited several firearms last year. I own a handmade knife from the Philippines passed down from my dad to me. Past is past I wouldn't give it a second thought what the history was behind these objects other than they are family heirlooms. I'll make positive memories with them now that they are in my responsible hands.
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I just inherited several firearms last year. I own a handmade knife from the Philippines passed down from my dad to me. Past is past I wouldn't give it a second thought what the history was behind these objects other than they are family heirlooms. I'll make positive memories with them now that they are in my responsible hands.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
Firearms or other items like knives that are passed down in a given family have special value, at least to me. I’ve always been interested in “if this gun could talk” kind of history of the item. Not in a bad juju way, but I’m sure there are many an interesting story. But like you said, no matter the history, good to move forward and make positive memories by enjoying the firearms.
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Doesn't worry me in the slightest potentially owning a rifle that killed someone becuase really in my view the rifle didn't the bloke holding it did, a rifle's purpose is only what the shooter makes it. You'll find alot of us Aussie's love our .303's, alot of diggers carried them into war many years ago, alot floating around out there, i have one in my own collection and love it for the history, shoot it everynow and again too, but at about 60years old she needs some tlc every now and again
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How about samurai swords?
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Milsurp Morality:
https://www.full30.com/video/31524a735f6aa0b9d0891e153434c9e7?utm_source=system&utm_medium=email&utm_content=iv8888&utm_campaign=subscribers
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone in war?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed someone who is/was our enemy?
How do you feel about owning a weapon that probably killed Americans?
It’s part of the fascinating part of owning war used guns. I know for a fact that my MG42 and MP44 machine guns killed Americans and have the documentation stating so before the guns were captured. I also have a Sten that was verified as being a carried war gun, so it probably killed Germans. My Type 11 Japanese machine gun was also a papered and captured gun in Peleleu, so no doubt it was used to harm others. The act of harm was bad, but the gun now having a history of that is not a bad thing. They are tools and the fascinating part about owning them is the fact that they have stories connected to our past.
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How about samurai swords?
I have one an uncle brought back from the war during reconstruction efforts. Don't know if it ever killed anyone though.
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I have one an uncle brought back from the war during reconstruction efforts. Don't know if it ever killed anyone though.
My grandma gave away our family sword in the 70's because she felt it had bad juju on it.
I didn't know we even had one until I asked my parents after watching The Last Samurai. For our armor, she can't remember what she did with it. Lost track of that in the 80's.
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My grandma gave away our family sword in the 70's because she felt it had bad juju on it.
I didn't know we even had one until I asked my parents after watching The Last Samurai. For our armor, she can't remember what she did with it. Lost track of that in the 80's.
I asked my father in law about his family sword but apparently after the war Japanese weren't supposed to keep weapons anymore so they had to get rid of it. Unfortunately no family sword for me. :(