2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: zippz on November 08, 2018, 07:13:18 AM
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Another tragic news story. Former marine kills 12 in a california bar with a handgun despite armed guards inside.
This is a difficult scenario to prevent. Can't CCW in a bar. Even for armed guards it would be difficult to find and target the assailant in the crowd and shooter would have the element of surprise.
Update. News reports no one at the bar was armed when the shooting started. The police responded to the bar and were shot at.
12 dead in California bar shooting
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/h_efe4639b71fa462b5a037f920e24ef2a
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:(
Saw the news update on my phone early this morning. MSM coverage again suspect at best with conflicting accounts already. Interesting that CNN was quick to report use of a .45 cal Glock handgun, purchased legally, with specific mention of magazine normally limited to 10 rounds, but shooter used "extended magazine" and just about an hour after the incident. Then another report mentioned gunman dead and found that way and reported gunman had killed himself prior to LE arriving, then next report of an officer shot and killed after "responding in minutes". The rush to be first to report, even if reporting inaccurate info is >:( I'll leave the tinfoil group to speculate beyond that.
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How could this happen? Especially in California? The state with arguably the strictest, most comprehensive firearms acquisition and possession laws in the United States.
California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, gun confiscation laws, a 10-day waiting period on gun purchases, limit of one handgun purchase per month, an “assault weapons” ban, a ban on magazines of over 10 rounds, a limited "roster" of "approved" firearms, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry, legally-mandated "gun free zones", and controls on the purchase of ammunition, among other things.
Comments at one article:
A: The problem is too easy access to guns.
B: Easy? California has the most restrictive laws in the country.
A: Not a total ban.
Any questions?
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Obviously don't know all of the details here...so it's all supposition at this point.
So we have a prior service with mental health issues that more than likely developed "over there". For the life of me I can't figure out why they keep screaming for more gun control when they should be screaming for better mental health support services. Don't they want to help people? Screw the folks who actually give something for their country, but they want to bring in 1000's of migrants without any sort of checks. I mean "it's for the children" and all that. Ugh :(
Sadly I get it though. It's not about gun control, it's people control
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Is this a new strategy from the left?
Going after "highly concealed, high capacity clips with outrageous rate of fire that anyone can buy off the shelf". Pistol bans coming?
Attack on our veterans and their "mental health" affairs? Since Obama and the VA got their cover blown on what they were doing
Background check loopholes?
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I saw a few screen shots of his FB before it was scrubbed. He changed his name to a Muslim name also and is dressed in a Haji outfit.
Wonder why the media uses his first, middle, and last name? To make him sound more American? Why are majority of the pics on the main web of him in his Marine uniform? Only 2-3 in civilian clothes. I'm sure his FB had way more pics than that.
I'm sure the truth will come out shortly.
Other reports are saying that there were a good bunch of Vegas shooting survivors in the audience as well. (unconfirmed)
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Saw this on the news, here In Australia all the ' experts ' who've never seen a firearm in real life have all these grand plans and shake their heads blah blah happens everytime. Tragic, i'll assume a bar is a ' gun free zone? ' from what i know Cali is pretty anti and has some of the strictest gun laws? Hopefully the facts come out.
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They like people with mental health most of the population thinks ass back ward you cant deny it when you go out in public you see some forum of mental health, its more easy to control them and tell them whats needed to do
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Saw this on the news, here In Australia all the ' experts ' who've never seen a firearm in real life have all these grand plans and shake their heads blah blah happens everytime. Tragic, i'll assume a bar is a ' gun free zone? ' from what i know Cali is pretty anti and has some of the strictest gun laws? Hopefully the facts come out.
Cali has a 10 round magazine law thats been around for a while now.
The shooter had an extended mag (illegal in CA)
Bar is a gun free zone
CA does have strict gun laws compared to other states like Texas, Tennessee, etc... (why no one in the bar was carrying)
FBI stats show that most active shootings (94%) happen in "gun free zones".
America has a mental health problem, disguised as a gun problem
*edit
CA also has a law where the police can confiscate your guns if they feel you're a danger to yourself or others. (Police called to his home in April 2018)
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I saw a few screen shots of his FB before it was scrubbed. He changed his name to a Muslim name also and is dressed in a Haji outfit.
Wonder why the media uses his first, middle, and last name? To make him sound more American? Why are majority of the pics on the main web of him in his Marine uniform? Only 2-3 in civilian clothes. I'm sure his FB had way more pics than that.
I'm sure the truth will come out shortly.
Other reports are saying that there were a good bunch of Vegas shooting survivors in the audience as well. (unconfirmed)
the media uses first, middle, last, to eliminate confusion with people with the same first/last
think about john wilkes boothe
it has been done for a long time
not everything is a conspiracy...
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the media uses first, middle, last, to eliminate confusion with people with the same first/last
think about john wilkes boothe
it has been done for a long time
not everything is a conspiracy...
Whoa, don't mention the "C" word yet...I'm leaning more toward domestic terrorism.
But not all use the full name when IDing the shooter like how they're doing today.
Fort Hood
Columbine
Vegas
Pulse Night Club
Oregon Theater Shooting
Sandy Hook
Stoneman Douglas School
The Virginnia Tech shooter had a hyphen, but he was Korean so not sure if it was all his 1st name or his middle also.
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Cali has a 10 round magazine law thats been around for a while now.
The shooter had an extended mag (illegal in CA)
Bar is a gun free zone
CA does have strict gun laws compared to other states like Texas, Tennessee, etc... (why no one in the bar was carrying)
FBI stats show that most active shootings (94%) happen in "gun free zones".
America has a mental health problem, disguised as a gun problem
*edit
CA also has a law where the police can confiscate your guns if they feel you're a danger to yourself or others. (Police called to his home in April 2018)
I don't think just you guys have a ' metal heath issue ' mate im inclined to think its the whole bloody world, i mean the UK has heaps of stabbings, even here with our ' world class gun laws ' :grrr: people are getting shot and stabbed everyday, i mean i don't have the solution but i'm just one guy
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I saw a few screen shots of his FB before it was scrubbed. He changed his name to a Muslim name also and is dressed in a Haji outfit.
Wonder why the media uses his first, middle, and last name? To make him sound more American? Why are majority of the pics on the main web of him in his Marine uniform? Only 2-3 in civilian clothes. I'm sure his FB had way more pics than that.
I'm sure the truth will come out shortly.
Other reports are saying that there were a good bunch of Vegas shooting survivors in the audience as well. (unconfirmed)
The tin foil stuff is how the gun community loses all crediability in these situations. True or not I till it’s proven we shouldn’t be doing this stuff
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I've often wondered about the mental health issue subject. Not to discount folks with PTSD and other conditions that really could use the help. I just wonder if it's due to generations growing up with too much freedoms as well as a healthcare industry that would rather prescribe drugs than treat and/or address the root issue. Thinking back to when I was in elementary school, I would say that there was maybe 1 in 30 kids that were on Ritalin or other drugs. My mom taught 5th & 6th grades, and I recall discussing with her a long time ago that it was rare. Now, seems like behavioral drugs, ADHD, etc are super common. Yeah, maybe advances in knowledge about those conditions, but I have to think that many could just be kids being kids and parents not knowing how to address, or not being able to properly discipline them.
Yeah, this is coming from someone who doesn't have kids. However, I've discussed this many times with my close friends with kids and they mostly agree.
Was having dinner with one of my best friends and his wife and two kids (2 and 4). We were discussing the "tough" life their 4 yo daughter was experiencing when a YouTube video took a little longer to load. Oh the life. They didn't experience the stuff like listening for the dialing of the modem, listening for the modem response, confirming connection, etc. I mean times change and usually for the better. In this case, I wonder if we really have gone backwards in many ways.
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The tin foil stuff is how the gun community loses all crediability in these situations. True or not I till it’s proven we shouldn’t be doing this stuff
Yeah, we shouldn't be electing almost 100% Democrats to the legislature either, but...
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Commiefornia has the strictest gun laws they can pass, and yet they also have had more mass shootings than any other state.
When will the obvious be accepted?: laws don't stop criminal behavior.
A Look at California Gun Laws, Among the Toughest in the Nation
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/us/california-gun-laws.html
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My mom taught 5th & 6th grades, and I recall discussing with her a long time ago that it was rare. Now, seems like behavioral drugs, ADHD, etc are super common. Yeah, maybe advances in knowledge about those conditions,
I'm on the fence about what is causing these types of behavioral problems. Is it vaccinations, artificial ingredients, etc...? How come many countries in the UK ban artificial coloring.
There are a good bunch of parents out there that swear right after their child got their vaccines, their personality changed. Then autism was diagnosed.
We all must remember how smoking and lung cancer wasn't related until the late 80's.
But :stopjack:
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My mom taught 5th & 6th grades, and I recall discussing with her a long time ago that it was rare. Now, seems like behavioral drugs, ADHD, etc are super common.
And we now have trained experts in modern human manipulation techniques. With a political wing that is dedicated to "by any means necessary".
Tin foil, maybe, but the KGB and CIA were perfecting this stuff in the early 60's.
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Tinfoil hat brigade is at it again....
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Tinfoil hat brigade is at it again....
Nah I don't see this as being a false flag, but more of a control of information the public is told.
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And we now have trained experts in modern human manipulation techniques. With a political wing that is dedicated to "by any means necessary".
Tin foil, maybe, but the KGB and CIA were perfecting this stuff in the early 60's.
That skill has been honed for generations. It's called being female. The skill has an advanced level of "wifey". ;D
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That skill has been honed for generations. It's called being female. The skill has an advanced level of "wifey". ;D
All females are experts in "MK Ultra"...they're the cadre for the class.
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The shooter had an extended mag (illegal in CA)
"Extended" or just the standard 13 round magazine? AKAIK, there are no .45 Glock extended mags like they make for the smaller calibers.
Might have had a +1 floorplate on his. Never heard of such being available though.
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"Extended" or just the standard 13 round magazine? AKAIK, there are no .45 Glock extended mags like they make for the smaller calibers.
Might have had a +1 floorplate on his. Never heard of such being available though.
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/sgm-tactical-glock-21-30-41-45-acp-26-round-extended-magazine.html
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I got a friend that lives nearby, go to thousand oaks many times, at least once a year. It's a nice place.
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I got a friend that lives nearby, go to thousand oaks many times, at least once a year. It's a nice place.
Formerly, the third safest city in California.
This is claimed to be a social media post from the murderer just prior to the event, and they also claim he was posting during the event:
In those posts, the individual said he hopes that people call him insane and he mocked those who often offer “thoughts and prayers” after an incident takes place.
In the Facebook posting, the source confirms the writer said, “I hope they call me insane .. wouldn’t that just be a big ball of irony? Yea, I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’… or ‘keep you in my thoughts’ .. every time .. and wonder why these keep happening….”
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Interestingly, a mother of one victim, who she claims was at the Vegas mass casualty event, screamed to the media that she didn't want "prayers", she didn't want "thoughts", she wanted "gun control". And I do mean "screamed". She did not elaborate on camera as to exactly what that would be, which is crucial, since California already has almost every known "gun control", including "gun violence restraining orders" where any person, including police officers, who believe the person is a threat to himself of others can ask to have the individual's firearms confiscated. In this case the guy was evaluated by police ("crisis response team") in response to a call, who deemed him NOT a danger to himself or others. The Isla Vista murderer was likewise evaluated by similar law enforcement personnel during a call to his residence and found not a danger and therefore not subject to firearm confiscation. It is well known in the psychology community that there is no reliable evaluation methodology by which an individual can accurately be found to be either a danger or not a danger re future behavior, and thus to err "on the safe side" would mean incarcerating, or at least confiscating the firearms (and cars and machetes and gas cans, etc.?) of tens of thousands of people in order to stop the hundreds who would end up committing/attempting suicide or attempt to murder others. The "easiest" thing, of course, is to simply call for a ban on guns... as if people with evil intent won't get them, like in France at the Bataclan theater, etc.
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There's a vid on IG floating around that 1 guy who recorded part of the shooting and filmed himself after. He wishing he could have brought his gun because he was a few feet away from the shooter and could have saved lives. But CA is a gun free zone...
He's pretty pissed in the video.
I guess this shooting is distracting people from what's going on in Broward County again. Trucks showing up with uncounted ballots. Like Matson trucks full, not just a pick up truck.
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I guess this shooting is distracting people from what's going on in Broward County again. Trucks showing up with uncounted ballots. Like Matson trucks full, not just a pick up truck.
Shut up and get on the train.... trust me, I'm from the government. We know whats best for you.
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why can't you concealed carry in a bar? I thought (generally) the rule is you cannot drink. But bar workers, security, police, patrons, etc. can carry if they are sober. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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why can't you concealed carry in a bar? I thought (generally) the rule is you cannot drink. But bar workers, security, police, patrons, etc. can carry if they are sober. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Those laws are state-by-state. Some let you carry where alcohol is served if you don't drink. Others prohibit carrying where alcohol is served. Still others won't care that you carry in a bar as long as you are below the legal limit for driving intoxicated.
One more example of how each state holds different views on individual responsibility vs. state control in the name of public safety.
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I've often wondered about the mental health issue subject. Not to discount folks with PTSD and other conditions that really could use the help. I just wonder if it's due to generations growing up with too much freedoms as well as a healthcare industry that would rather prescribe drugs than treat and/or address the root issue. Thinking back to when I was in elementary school, I would say that there was maybe 1 in 30 kids that were on Ritalin or other drugs. My mom taught 5th & 6th grades, and I recall discussing with her a long time ago that it was rare. Now, seems like behavioral drugs, ADHD, etc are super common. Yeah, maybe advances in knowledge about those conditions, but I have to think that many could just be kids being kids and parents not knowing how to address, or not being able to properly discipline them.
Yeah, this is coming from someone who doesn't have kids. However, I've discussed this many times with my close friends with kids and they mostly agree.
Was having dinner with one of my best friends and his wife and two kids (2 and 4). We were discussing the "tough" life their 4 yo daughter was experiencing when a YouTube video took a little longer to load. Oh the life. They didn't experience the stuff like listening for the dialing of the modem, listening for the modem response, confirming connection, etc. I mean times change and usually for the better. In this case, I wonder if we really have gone backwards in many ways.
I also think it partly has to do with previous generations society choosing to institutionalize more "crazy" people. Nowadays, we simply let them roam the streets, which is an accident waiting to happen (and does happen)
Today, also we simply medicate people (which may or may not help) and let people with mental disorders roam free. Kids, whos behavior was previously regarded as high spirited or simply naughty is now diagnosed and they're given brain altering drugs, leading to further problems as an adult.
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Formerly, the third safest city in California.
This is claimed to be a social media post from the murderer just prior to the event, and they also claim he was posting during the event:
In those posts, the individual said he hopes that people call him insane and he mocked those who often offer “thoughts and prayers” after an incident takes place.
In the Facebook posting, the source confirms the writer said, “I hope they call me insane .. wouldn’t that just be a big ball of irony? Yea, I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’… or ‘keep you in my thoughts’ .. every time .. and wonder why these keep happening….”
* * * *
Interestingly, a mother of one victim, who she claims was at the Vegas mass casualty event, screamed to the media that she didn't want "prayers", she didn't want "thoughts", she wanted "gun control". And I do mean "screamed". She did not elaborate on camera as to exactly what that would be, which is crucial, since California already has almost every known "gun control", including "gun violence restraining orders" where any person, including police officers, who believe the person is a threat to himself of others can ask to have the individual's firearms confiscated. In this case the guy was evaluated by police ("crisis response team") in response to a call, who deemed him NOT a danger to himself or others. The Isla Vista murderer was likewise evaluated by similar law enforcement personnel during a call to his residence and found not a danger and therefore not subject to firearm confiscation. It is well known in the psychology community that there is no reliable evaluation methodology by which an individual can accurately be found to be either a danger or not a danger re future behavior, and thus to err "on the safe side" would mean incarcerating, or at least confiscating the firearms (and cars and machetes and gas cans, etc.?) of tens of thousands of people in order to stop the hundreds who would end up committing/attempting suicide or attempt to murder others. The "easiest" thing, of course, is to simply call for a ban on guns... as if people with evil intent won't get them, like in France at the Bataclan theater, etc.
Given "changemyoil's" post right below yours, the irony is that it probably was strong gun control that got her kid killed.
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I also think it partly has to do with previous generations society choosing to institutionalize more "crazy" people. Nowadays, we simply let them roam the streets, which is an accident waiting to happen (and does happen)
Today, also we simply medicate people (which may or may not help) and let people with mental disorders roam free. Kids, whos behavior was previously regarded as high spirited or simply naughty is now diagnosed and they're given brain altering drugs, leading to further problems as an adult.
Institutionalizing the mentally defective has a lot to do with a lot of problems, not specifically violence.
Statistically, the incidence of violence (gun and otherwise) among the mentally ill population is not very different than rate of violence among the "psychologically normal" population.
But, institutionalization does reduce homelessness, drug & alcohol addicts on the streets, and others who might engage in risky lifestyles/behaviors due to their mental state. It also ensures those who need medication to function are taking it as needed.
I keep coming back to the same question: does anyone have a magical test that can predict who among us will commit acts of violence and who will not? Until then, trying to pigeon hole everyone to make it easier to limit one's rights will continue to fail to keep us safer.
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1) I also think it partly has to do with previous generations society choosing to institutionalize more "crazy" people. Nowadays, we simply let them roam the streets, which is an accident waiting to happen (and does happen)
2) Today, also we simply medicate people (which may or may not help) and let people with mental disorders roam free. Kids, whos behavior was previously regarded as high spirited or simply naughty is now diagnosed and they're given brain altering drugs, leading to further problems as an adult.
1) I think there's that as well as today, there's how the healthcare industry handles or treats stuff like that. Seems like the healthcare professionals are often handcuffed by regulations and rules that make it almost impossible to do their job. It's almost as if the person needs to actually hurt themselves or someone before action can be taken. I have a couple of friends who work in the facilities that care for them as well as transitional facilities and it's scary on what they have to deal with and seems like they have almost no control to help folks. I mean I get that no one can be sure that someone will hurt themselves or someone else.
2) Yup. Focus seems to be on limiting or trying to control the symptoms. I still do wonder about "psycho" drugs and if they are really helping or actually set folks up to a more dangerous blow up later on down the road.
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why can't you concealed carry in a bar? I thought (generally) the rule is you cannot drink. But bar workers, security, police, patrons, etc. can carry if they are sober. Correct me if I'm wrong.
CA is strict who they issue CCW permits to. But they do issue them, not like Hawaii that denies all. I know a guy, who's wife was issued one because shes a vet that makes house calls. She often has opioids with her when making these house calls. So she was granted a CCW permit.
As for the workers, only can speculate that maybe the employer forbade them or the landlord. Even if they were allowed, does CA have a "places to keep" law which makes it very humbug to carry at work?
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CA is strict who they issue CCW permits to. But they do issue them, not like Hawaii that denies all. I know a guy, who's wife was issued one because shes a vet that makes house calls. She often has opioids with her when making these house calls. So she was granted a CCW permit.
As for the workers, only can speculate that maybe the employer forbade them or the landlord. Even if they were allowed, does CA have a "places to keep" law which makes it very humbug to carry at work?
From what residents there have told me, it all depends on the county you live in. Some are very much "shall issue" while others are more "not if we can help it".
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From what residents there have told me, it all depends on the county you live in. Some are very much "shall issue" while others are more "not if we can help it".
But I'm sure that they have issued at least 1 every year. Vs. our big fat ZERO for many years.
And big fat ZERO for the entire state.
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I also think it partly has to do with previous generations society choosing to institutionalize more "crazy" people. Nowadays, we simply let them roam the streets, which is an accident waiting to happen (and does happen)
Today, also we simply medicate people (which may or may not help) and let people with mental disorders roam free. Kids, whos behavior was previously regarded as high spirited or simply naughty is now diagnosed and they're given brain altering drugs, leading to further problems as an adult.
I heard a stat the other day: The overall population of the U.S. now compared to 1950s is nearly doubled, while the total number (NOT percentage) of people institutionalized for mental health issues is 10% the number of the 1950s.
That in no way addresses the issue of how to determine which of those people are truly "dangerous" and would thus benefit "public safety" (or their own) were they segregated. Then there's paying for it...
Given "changemyoil's" post right below yours, the irony is that it probably was strong gun control that got her kid killed.
I heard one account that claimed that there were 5 off duty law enforcement officers in the bar and that they all helped and/or protected people but that they were all disarmed, as was required by law. (Off limits for CCW: "Any place that serves alcohol for consumption". I don't know if there might be an exception for off duty law enforcement.)
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Given "changemyoil's" post right below yours, the irony is that it probably was strong gun control that got her kid killed.
That is exactly what got her kid killed.
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I heard a stat the other day: The overall population of the U.S. now compared to 1950s is nearly doubled, while the total number (NOT percentage) of people institutionalized for mental health issues is 10% the number of the 1950s.
That in no way addresses the issue of how to determine which of those people are truly "dangerous" and would thus benefit "public safety" (or their own) were they segregated. Then there's paying for it...
I heard one account that claimed that there were 5 off duty law enforcement officers in the bar and that they all helped and/or protected people but that they were all disarmed, as was required by law. (Off limits for CCW: "Any place that serves alcohol for consumption". I don't know if there might be an exception for off duty law enforcement.)
I carried concealed in WA state for many years.
I don't generally go to bars as I think they are nothing but trouble.
Bunch of drunks hoping to get "lucky" or are just lonely people
looking for love/attention in all the wrong places.
But I carried most every where except work or University.
even at that I violated the rules of no guns on the property
by locking my gun up in may car in the parking lot .
But a bar, everyone I know carried even if it was illegal.
Even the cops.
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https://gunmagwarehouse.com/sgm-tactical-glock-21-30-41-45-acp-26-round-extended-magazine.html
I be corrected most certainly.
Never even thought of such a thing. A 30 wih 10 rounds would be plenty, were I to buy one. THe added 3 of the 21, may be not worth the added size and weight.
The mondo magazine you posted is abut as much a novelty as a bump stock.
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I be corrected most certainly.
Never even thought of such a thing. A 30 wih 10 rounds would be plenty, were I to buy one. THe added 3 of the 21, may be not worth the added size and weight.
The mondo magazine you posted is abut as much a novelty as a bump stock.
People I've read & heard about owning these mags keep them in their vehicles as a "worst case scenario" reload.
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Confirmation from John Lott that the bars in California are "no carry"/"gun free zones". Also a statistical reference to how many of the mass casualty events have taken place in such "gun free zones".
Crime Prevention Research Center’s (CPRC) John R. Lott reported that the Borderline Bar & Grill was a gun-free zone by law. CPRC posted a California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms form explaining that the state of California prohibits the carrying of firearms “in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.”
The state-mandated gun-free status of places serving alcoholic beverages to be consumed guaranteed that Ian Long would not have to worry about patrons shooting back once he began his attack.
In this way, the gun-free status of the bar played to his favor, and such gun-free policies have been benefiting criminals for over 60 years. CPRC reports that 97.8 percent of “mass public shootings” from 1950 to 2015 occurred in gun-free zones.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/09/site-of-thousand-oaks-mass-shooting-gun-free-zone/
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44633517_256543525032892_6018585715388973056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=a18519251fb7ee92330afae87f779cfe&oe=5C790524)
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People I've read & heard about owning these mags keep them in their vehicles as a "worst case scenario" reload.
I'd be leery of snagging it on something.
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People I've read & heard about owning these mags keep them in their vehicles as a "worst case scenario" reload.
Or a kriss vector :thumbsup:
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I was tempted to buy a 21 rd mag for my Glock 19 when I was in NV last month. I would use it has my spare mag instead of the 15 rd one at I usually carry there.
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"Elaine Quijano"
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So Ashton Kutcher may just have admitted to a felony. "My friend gave me a gun in that very parking lot for my bday. I havent even shot it yet". No FFL used?
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So Ashton Kutcher may just have admitted to a felony. "My friend gave me a gun in that very parking lot for my bday. I havent even shot it yet". No FFL used?
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He is a celebrity so it’s ok.
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Can anyone confirm there was off duty pd in the bar, but due to CAs gun laws, thryre unarmed.
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Can anyone confirm there was off duty pd in the bar, but due to CAs gun laws, thryre unarmed.
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story I heard was that there were 5, and all unarmed
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story I heard was that there were 5, and all unarmed
I know at 1 of the bars near the vegas shooting there was an unarmed minnasota cop there. A ccw permit holder gave him his gun. The cop watched the door.
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I heard cops were unarmed too and were patrons.
To prevent something like this in the future, the bar would need 1 or 2 armed plain clothes guards. That would be pretty expensive for bar owners for the added responsibility and training requirements. Also far more disciplined than the typical bouncer.
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I heard cops were unarmed too and were patrons.
To prevent something like this in the future, the bar would need 1 or 2 armed plain clothes guards. That would be pretty expensive for bar owners for the added responsibility and training requirements. Also far more disciplined than the typical bouncer.
what is a "typical bouncer"?
one of "those people"?
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I heard cops were unarmed too and were patrons.
To prevent something like this in the future, the bar would need 1 or 2 armed plain clothes guards. That would be pretty expensive for bar owners for the added responsibility and training requirements. Also far more disciplined than the typical bouncer.
Or, the "gun-free zone" laws could be repealed and at least give someone in the building a chance to stop an attack. But, sure, making everyplace a "hard target" with armed security would likely have a better outcome, but who is going to pay for all that? "That beer will be $17."
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One can only imagine how uninformed the electorate would be were it not for the valiant efforts of journalists who investigate and supply the public with accurate information about firearms and our rights.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2018/11/08/extended-chamber-the-real-culprit-in-the-california-shooting/
Extended Chamber: The Real Culprit In The California Shooting
WTSP.com:
Authorities say Long used a .45-caliber Glock 21 handgun during the attack. The weapon was purchased legally. Investigators say it had an extended chamber to hold more rounds.
Something tells me that an extended chamber would be dangerous.
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Took the cops a month to finally announce that it was a cop who killed the cop. Wonder how long it will take them to announce how many of the civilian casualties, dead and wounded, were also shot by cops?
California Sheriff’s Sgt. Ron Helus, killed in bar mass shooting, gunned down by friendly fire: authorities
https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-sheriffs-sgt-ron-helus-killed-in-bar-shooting-was-killed-by-friendly-fire-authorities
The bullet responsible for killing a Ventura County Sheriff’s sergeant during November's mass shooting at the Borderline Bar & Grill was fired by a California Highway Patrol officer, authorities said Friday.
The CHP officer was not identified but is a 9-year veteran of the force who is on leave.
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I do understand that it takes time to do the ballistics of the head that was found and every barrel that was present at the time of the shooting. Even if you didn't fire, you will have your barrel run.
But I'm sure they took their time doing so also.
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I do understand that it takes time to do the ballistics of the head that was found and every barrel that was present at the time of the shooting. Even if you didn't fire, you will have your barrel run.
But I'm sure they took their time doing so also.
I'd guess there's a fairly high probability that they knew what happened immediately following the event. I bet the cop who killed the other knew he shot a cop within seconds. That wouldn't have played well in the immediate aftermath of calling for more gun control, so they let it slide for a month. You think that the cop shooter just took leave yesterday when they announced it? I bet he's been on leave since day 1.
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Reports say he was wearing a vest then hit by a rifle round.
Tragedy no matter how it's sliced.
https://ktla.com/2018/12/07/borderline-massacre-officials-to-give-update-on-thousand-oaks-bar-shooting-that-left-13-dead/