2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: punaperson on August 20, 2019, 06:59:05 AM
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"Red flag" insanity! "A vigilant citizen" anonymously reported him to the FBI National Threat Operations Center (NTOC). I looked at 4 different stories about this case and couldn't find any description or link to the supposed dangerous meme. He was charged with 4 counts of possessing "large capacity magazines", even though he doesn't own a rifle... but apparently had possible access to those belonging to his father, which were seized.
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/pre-crime-nation-college-student-arrested-stripped-of-firearms-for-posting-social-media-meme/
PRE-CRIME NATION: College Student Arrested, Stripped of Firearms for Posting Social Media Meme
Freedom of speech is dead in America, as the Orwellian nightmare escalates.
22-year-old Connecticut resident Brandon Wagshol was arrested on Friday for posting a meme on social media that authorities claim indicated he showed an interest in committing a mass shooting.
He was arrested after law enforcement received an anonymous tip about the meme, which prompted the arrest of Wagshol as pre-crime becomes a reality as the Bill of Rights becomes a fading memory.
“What I understand is that he didn’t make any comments on Facebook, but there might have been other memes, as they call it, that he might have re-posted, but he didn’t make a statement on Facebook as related to any mass shooting,” said Darnell Crosland, who is representing Wagshol as his attorney.
In addition, Wagshol’s firearms were seized under Connecticut’s red flag law – in what will become the new status quo across the country if federal lawmakers get their way. The firearms found in Crosland’s home were legal and registered to his father, but were taken anyway.
Wagshol’s bond has set at $250,000, and the judge won’t allow him to post it until after his next hearing on Sept. 6 in Stamford.
Wagshol is a student at Central Connecticut State University. They have banned him from the campus and suspended him indefinitely pending his charges.
“We have placed Brandon Wagshol on interim suspension pending further investigation. He is also banned from campus at this time,” the university said in a statement.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation National Threat Operations Center (NTOC) received a tip that Wagshol was attempting to purchase large capacity rifle magazines [30 round capacity] from out of state.
Charges: 4 counts of Illegal Possession of Large Capacity Magazines
Bond: $250,000
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sounds like a bad rap
30 round AR mags are everywhere here and some idiot could easily blow the whistle and call a raid on KHSC on any weekend.
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"Large" is a relative term with no legal meaning.
What's the difference between a LARGE SUV and a SMALL SUV? Large & small pizza? Large & small airplane?
Magazines need to be defined as "large" relative to some standard size. Using such an ambiguous term leaves it up to the imagination / political agenda to make that determination.
An arbitrary capacity of 10 has been set as the maximum limit for mags in many places. NY tried and failed to make it 7 (failed because 7 round mags aren't produced for the majority of common caliber semi-autos).
10 is obviously not the cutoff between "not large" and "large" simply based on NY deciding on a different cutoff. That proves the term is arbitrary and undefined. Yet, they will persist in telling us all that anything over some imaginary limit is "large".
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IIRC, the meme he posted was about the sith lord and talking about the alphabet boys and bogaloo.
CT is a blue state so can we expect any less? Also IDK what their mag laws are, but they're more restricted than HI.
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An arbitrary capacity of 10 has been set as the maximum limit for mags in many places. NY tried and failed to make it 7 (failed because 7 round mags aren't produced for the majority of common caliber semi-autos).
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Yes, they rescinded the 7 round magazine CAPACITY law, but they kept in place the law stating that no more than 7 rounds could be in the magazine (or maybe it was 7 total, including a chambered round), of whatever capacity magazine. You can't fix stupid!
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Yes, they rescinded the 7 round magazine CAPACITY law, but they kept in place the law stating that no more than 7 rounds could be in the magazine (or maybe it was 7 total, including a chambered round), of whatever capacity magazine. You can't fix stupid!
So, which has a more severe penalty: discharging a firearm in city limits, or possessing a loaded handgun with more than 7 rds in the magazine?
I can think of a rapid method of getting 10 rounds down to 7 -- noisy, but rapid.
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So, which has a more severe penalty: discharging a firearm in city limits, or possessing a loaded handgun with more than 7 rds in the magazine?
I can think of a rapid method of getting 10 rounds down to 7 -- noisy, but rapid.
I'm pretty sure if you've been stopped by a cop and he asks to inspect your gun to count the rounds in the magazine and you then fire off three rounds, he'll still be able to do the addition, and it'll all be on his body cam. Plus, with the way things are going in New York in a few more years both crimes will be "life without parole", but only because they've gone soft on capital punishment... maybe in this sort of case (requiring commonsense gun safety laws) they'll make an exception and allow the death penalty.
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I'm pretty sure if you've been stopped by a cop and he asks to inspect your gun to count the rounds in the magazine and you then fire off three rounds, he'll still be able to do the addition, and it'll all be on his body cam. Plus, with the way things are going in New York in a few more years both crimes will be "life without parole", but only because they've gone soft on capital punishment... maybe in this sort of case (requiring commonsense gun safety laws) they'll make an exception and allow the death penalty.
"Why were you discharging your weapon outside of the car before pulling over?"
"Discharge? Oh! You must have heard my car backfiring. I got some bad gas a couple of days ago."
If we're talking NY, it's reasonable to assume everyone there, even the Cops, mistake backfires for shooting. There's recent evidence to support that opinion. :rofl:
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Play some EDC music while doing a car pop. "Sir. Its my rave lights going off"
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The article doesn't show what meme was posted. Hard to judge without knowing more about what he posted. A social media post can be a threat which is illegal and thus not a pre-crime. Have to follow the story and see what comes out of this one.
If it was found there was insufficient evidence to constitute a threat then they would probably have to drop any charges against him for high cap magazines due to evidence rules.
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This is going to be just like the FBIʻs terrorist entrapment witch hunt where they started harassing middle eastern cab drivers with double digit IQs until they agree to transfer some kind of contraband for ridiculous amounts of money. It does not matter if the whole thing is a spectacle and no actual danger was averted. They need to justify their over inflated budgets at a time when skepticism is growing about their ability to keep citizens safe, especially given their recent track record as a deep state political weapon in their failed campaign against Trump.
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The article doesn't show what meme was posted. Hard to judge without knowing more about what he posted. A social media post can be a threat which is illegal and thus not a pre-crime. Have to follow the story and see what comes out of this one.
If it was found there was insufficient evidence to constitute a threat then they would probably have to drop any charges against him for high cap magazines due to evidence rules.
His meme was a repost of the Sith Lord talking about boogaloo.
*edit
I'm not going to post it for obvious reasons.
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Kid arrested for posting on a chat board he's going to shoot up his school with his dads M-15 and kill 7 people. (Yes M-15.)
Sounds like he "rage quit" his game.
Cops showed up and arrested him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=361ROwkenXU
But since he's not a gun owner, no "red flag" confiscation. His mom does own a gun, and I don't think they took her gun.
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Kid arrested for posting on a chat board he's going to shoot up his school with his dads M-15 and kill 7 people. (Yes M-15.)
Sounds like he "rage quit" his game.
Cops showed up and arrested him.
But since he's not a gun owner, no "red flag" confiscation. His mom does own a gun, and I don't think they took her gun.
These parents, especially mothers it seems, are so fucking stupid when it comes to their kids. Like she could have any possible notion of what her kid might or might not do in the future... like tomorrow. You think the mother of the Sandy Hook murderer thought the day before, "Well, he is kinda weird. I wonder if he'll take my guns tomorrow and shoot me in the head while i sleep and then go kill a couple dozen kids and teachers at the school?" No. She was living in fantasy land. The most absurd example has always stuck with me. It was after the Watts riots, when some guy pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck that was stuck in a blockaded intersection and threw a concrete block on his head when he had already been beaten to the ground, suffering permanent brain damage. This event was captured on video by a news helicopter directly overhead, so the criminal was eventually arrested and tried and convicted. At the sentencing hearing his mother got up before the court and said "He's a good boy. He would never hurt anyone." No, seriously, she said that. People are fucking deluded.
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Kid arrested for posting on a chat board he's going to shoot up his school with his dads M-15 and kill 7 people. (Yes M-15.)
Sounds like he "rage quit" his game.
Cops showed up and arrested him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=361ROwkenXU
But since he's not a gun owner, no "red flag" confiscation. His mom does own a gun, and I don't think they took her gun.
There is such a thing as a M-15. It is a variant of an M-14 and used as a SAW.
Doubtful his dad would have one though.
Most states allow a 12yr old to get a hunting license, carry a gun, and kill game.
At least mine did when I was 12.
In the morning we got up, Grandma cooked breakfast, we grabbed our guns
and took off in separate directions. In the evening we came back hopefully
with our limits, and Grandma cooked some of the game for dinner and stuck the rest
in the cooler. Rabbit, Quail, Doves, Deer, what ever the season was.
If you don't know the rules of most public conduct by age 10 regarding threats
and violence, there is something wrong with you!
I just don't know what they are going to fix by tossing the kid in jail.
I'd bet they don't teach him the value of any life and why life is only taken
for food, personal safety, or the safety of others.
I'd bet they don't teach him gun safety and how to be safe with firearms.
The kid will just learn to hate cops, about prison rape, and why he needs to have
a better plan to get even.
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These parents, especially mothers it seems, are so fucking stupid when it comes to their kids. Like she could have any possible notion of what her kid might or might not do in the future... like tomorrow. You think the mother of the Sandy Hook murderer thought the day before, "Well, he is kinda weird. I wonder if he'll take my guns tomorrow and shoot me in the head while i sleep and then go kill a couple dozen kids and teachers at the school?" No. She was living in fantasy land. The most absurd example has always stuck with me. It was after the Watts riots, when some guy pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck that was stuck in a blockaded intersection and threw a concrete block on his head when he had already been beaten to the ground, suffering permanent brain damage. This event was captured on video by a news helicopter directly overhead, so the criminal was eventually arrested and tried and convicted. At the sentencing hearing his mother got up before the court and said "He's a good boy. He would never hurt anyone." No, seriously, she said that. People are fucking deluded.
Riots you describe were LA riots.
I remember Watts riots
these two riots were very different.
In Watts, Blacks were shot, killed and burned to death
Justifiably so as the fire dept can't put out a fire when
they are being shot at..
LA riots, Blacks had free run to do as they pleased, as
the Democrat union cops stood down.
As for the kid's mother she is obviously a "helicopter"
mother.
My mother would have beat me to a pulp
in front of the cops, and knowing Texas cops they
would have been very slow to stop her eg.
saying "Please stop hitting your son"
about ten times,
then "Stop hitting your son"
about ten times.
If she wasn't done by then they'd physically intervene.
That is what that kid needed not the Helicopter defense.
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These parents, especially mothers it seems, are so fucking stupid when it comes to their kids. Like she could have any possible notion of what her kid might or might not do in the future... like tomorrow. You think the mother of the Sandy Hook murderer thought the day before, "Well, he is kinda weird. I wonder if he'll take my guns tomorrow and shoot me in the head while i sleep and then go kill a couple dozen kids and teachers at the school?" No. She was living in fantasy land. The most absurd example has always stuck with me. It was after the Watts riots, when some guy pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck that was stuck in a blockaded intersection and threw a concrete block on his head when he had already been beaten to the ground, suffering permanent brain damage. This event was captured on video by a news helicopter directly overhead, so the criminal was eventually arrested and tried and convicted. At the sentencing hearing his mother got up before the court and said "He's a good boy. He would never hurt anyone." No, seriously, she said that. People are fucking deluded.
It is a bit of a mystery why humans do it but at this point those things don't surprise me any more. For some reason human emotions seem to interfere with their ability to see things for what they are. No one wants to believe a loved one is capable of these bad things. Look how often domestic violence victims stick with their abusers. Michael Jackson fans didn't want to believe Michael could molest children. Maybe the arrest kid's mom will come to terms later but in the beginning she is probably in shock and just finds it too hard to believe.
I don't know if the Sandhook kid's mother had good reason to think her son would have gone postal or not but yes, parents miss important signs and then don't want to face that they missed it either.
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His meme was a repost of the Sith Lord talking about boogaloo.
*edit
I'm not going to post it for obvious reasons.
I find that a little hard to believe.
I am sure he is coming up with some innocent sounding defense with his attorney.
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I find that a little hard to believe.
I am sure he is coming up with some innocent sounding defense with his attorney.
Hard to believe that someone would get their guns consfiscated under a red flag law?
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Hard to believe that someone would get their guns consfiscated under a red flag law?
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I'm sure there was "due process" ... and stuff. :wacko:
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Hard to believe that someone would get their guns consfiscated under a red flag law?
I am sure the HPD and it's tool here fully endorse red flag "pre-crime" tactics.
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Hard to believe that someone would get their guns consfiscated under a red flag law?
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Hard to believe anyone would confiscate guns over a meme about a star wars character doing a dance. Do you find that plausible?
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Hard to believe anyone would confiscate guns over a meme about a star wars character doing a dance. Do you find that plausible?
Are you disputing the facts as reported by multiple news outlets?
If so, please cite the sources for the facts you're basing that opinion on.
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Hard to believe anyone would confiscate guns over a meme about a star wars character doing a dance. Do you find that plausible?
You have to much trust in your employeer.
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You have to much trust in your employeer.
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He hasn't been paying attention to our posts. Once the red flag laws are in place, who's to stop them from including anything they want as "red flags?"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtftZPL-k7Y
@14:08 she defines an act of violence as misidentifying a person's gender
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This is supposedly the meme (or one of the memes?) that resulted in the "investigation" that led to his arrest and incarceration pending his (bail) hearing on September 6:
(https://i.imgur.com/icdvzfF.png)
Here's more from the article at https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/sharing-memes-man-ends-up-red-flagged/
SHARING MEMES – MAN ENDS UP RED FLAGGED
“Boogaloo” – a slang term for shit-hits-the-fan, or government gone bad and they’re coming for you, time to fight back. Boogaloo toys refers to guns. The opposite of “bugging out.”
“Alphabet bois” – ATF, FBI, DEA, etc.
“Coat hanger sears” – hand-crafted drop-in auto sears for an AR.
Wagshol has been banned from the campus of the college he was attending. The media is calling this a ‘mass murder plot foiled.’ But was it really? A Boogaloo meme is not about mass murder, it’s about defending yourself from the government.
Instagram has blacklisted any reference to the word “boogaloo.” Big Tech appears to feel that such memes are dangerous and need to be banned.
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I'm not claiming the guy is NOT mentally unstable and likely to commit violence, only that the apparent evidence of that is minimal (or possibly laughable). Only a team of "objective" (haha) "mental health professionals" might be able to determine that. But until then, posting such memes as above would seem to be the oft-laughed-at and ridiculed (by leftist socialist civilian disarmament advocates) "slippery slope" in action.
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This is supposedly the meme (or one of the memes?) that resulted in the "investigation" that led to his arrest and incarceration pending his (bail) hearing on September 6:
(https://i.imgur.com/icdvzfF.png)
Here's more from the article at https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/sharing-memes-man-ends-up-red-flagged/
SHARING MEMES – MAN ENDS UP RED FLAGGED
“Boogaloo” – a slang term for shit-hits-the-fan, or government gone bad and they’re coming for you, time to fight back. Boogaloo toys refers to guns. The opposite of “bugging out.”
“Alphabet bois” – ATF, FBI, DEA, etc.
“Coat hanger sears” – hand-crafted drop-in auto sears for an AR.
Wagshol has been banned from the campus of the college he was attending. The media is calling this a ‘mass murder plot foiled.’ But was it really? A Boogaloo meme is not about mass murder, it’s about defending yourself from the government.
Instagram has blacklisted any reference to the word “boogaloo.” Big Tech appears to feel that such memes are dangerous and need to be banned.
* * * * *
I'm not claiming the guy is NOT mentally unstable and likely to commit violence, only that the apparent evidence of that is minimal (or possibly laughable). Only a team of "objective" (haha) "mental health professionals" might be able to determine that. But until then, posting such memes as above would seem to be the oft-laughed-at and ridiculed (by leftist socialist civilian disarmament advocates) "slippery slope" in action.
What the Pho?!
Back in the day when I heard Boogaloo I thought of the guy that put Michael Jackson on the map with his poppin and lockin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPIm_awC1e0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ93GNHBHsE
so what does this website mean?
https://www.boogalooshrimp.com/ (https://www.boogalooshrimp.com/)
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Another example of the slippery slope?
Why wouldn't they release the actual language of this "threatening language"? They don't want any copycats, or reveal exactly where they draw the line so as to not allow people to skirt the limits (like social media platforms claim for not revealing the specifics of what constitutes a "punishable" offense)? Or what? Again, maybe this guy IS dangerous and needs to be incarcerated, but not revealing what he actually did... that seems sketchy to me. But I'm not a fan of the police state, so I kinda have that response to cops not revealing why they do stuff ("their body cameras and the car camera inexplicably did not record the incident", etc.).
Hotel guest arrested for negative review that allegedly threatened 'active shooter-style' event
A hotel guest seemingly went a little too far while leaving a negative review.
Police officers in Florida reportedly arrested a man who used “threatening language” in a review for a hotel in Cocoa Beach. While the man seems to have had a bad experience while staying at the hotel, getting arrested was probably worse.
McKinney had allegedly written a negative review for the Hilton Cocoa Beach Oceanfront Hotel after a recent stay. According to WFTV 9, authorities claimed that McKinney made a reference to an “active shooter-style” event at the hotel, along with other instances of threatening language.
McKinney has reportedly been charged with making written threats to kill, do bodily injury or conduct a mass shooting or act of terrorism.
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online identities are iffy. what if someone created an account with your name?
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"Reference"
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The problem is and remains, we have idiots in our society.
We don't have the moral strengths to deal with them.
Accept that. Democrats weaken everyone.
That is the price of "freedom".
What we need, is to allow is people to be able
to protect themselves using any tool they choose.
Hawaii Democrats are particularly ignorant
of this since they don't trust each other,
much less the "others"
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online identities are iffy. what if someone created an account with your name?
LE can subpoena IP address info from ISPs and other sites. Not difficult to identify that the email was sent from your IP.
People used to using their phones, tablets or home computers to access the Internet aren't thinking about covering their tracks until it's too late.
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LE can subpoena IP address info from ISPs and other sites. Not difficult to identify that the email was sent from your IP.
People used to using their phones, tablets or home computers to access the Internet aren't thinking about covering their tracks until it's too late.
VPNs in another country
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this reminds me of a recent purchase at Savers. I found a nice, fairly new soft case for my AR carbine ($7.99). A kid or young adult followed me around the store and asked me what I was going to use it for. I said "put stuff in - you know like a bag (with a duh look)." He said, "Oh really?" and I just walked past him. I didn't do anything criminal nor indicate anything of that sort. Just everyday shopping and treasure hunting at a thrift store. I paid for it and left. This was in Waipahu.
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This is supposedly the meme (or one of the memes?) that resulted in the "investigation" that led to his arrest and incarceration pending his (bail) hearing on September 6:
(https://i.imgur.com/icdvzfF.png)
Here's more from the article at https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/sharing-memes-man-ends-up-red-flagged/
SHARING MEMES – MAN ENDS UP RED FLAGGED
“Boogaloo” – a slang term for shit-hits-the-fan, or government gone bad and they’re coming for you, time to fight back. Boogaloo toys refers to guns. The opposite of “bugging out.”
“Alphabet bois” – ATF, FBI, DEA, etc.
“Coat hanger sears” – hand-crafted drop-in auto sears for an AR.
Wagshol has been banned from the campus of the college he was attending. The media is calling this a ‘mass murder plot foiled.’ But was it really? A Boogaloo meme is not about mass murder, it’s about defending yourself from the government.
Instagram has blacklisted any reference to the word “boogaloo.” Big Tech appears to feel that such memes are dangerous and need to be banned.
* * * * *
I'm not claiming the guy is NOT mentally unstable and likely to commit violence, only that the apparent evidence of that is minimal (or possibly laughable). Only a team of "objective" (haha) "mental health professionals" might be able to determine that. But until then, posting such memes as above would seem to be the oft-laughed-at and ridiculed (by leftist socialist civilian disarmament advocates) "slippery slope" in action.
Thanks for the post, that clears it up a bit.
I agree that someone clearly misunderstood what the meme was even about.
This will be an interesting case if the guy fights it. The courts will most likely have to decide whether a red flag arrest/seizure constitutes a search. If the court ordered his arrest then anything found during his arrest would most likely be admitted but if they went beyond just his arrest and searched his whole home he could get it thrown out. If he can make the case that there was never enough evidence to justify police or a judge to seize him then I think they would have to throw everything out. This one will be interesting to watch unfold.
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this reminds me of a recent purchase at Savers. I found a nice, fairly new soft case for my AR carbine ($7.99). A kid or young adult followed me around the store and asked me what I was going to use it for. I said "put stuff in - you know like a bag (with a duh look)." He said, "Oh really?" and I just walked past him. I didn't do anything criminal nor indicate anything of that sort. Just everyday shopping and treasure hunting at a thrift store. I paid for it and left. This was in Waipahu.
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So have the police raided your house yet? Clearly you are a danger to Waipahu
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Thanks for the post, that clears it up a bit.
I agree that someone clearly misunderstood what the meme was even about.
This will be an interesting case if the guy fights it. The courts will most likely have to decide whether a red flag arrest/seizure constitutes a search. If the court ordered his arrest then anything found during his arrest would most likely be admitted but if they went beyond just his arrest and searched his whole home he could get it thrown out. If he can make the case that there was never enough evidence to justify police or a judge to seize him then I think they would have to throw everything out. This one will be interesting to watch unfold.
He should have never been arrested, nor had his property searched, nor had his property confiscated based on such a flimsy, uncorroborated report.
You act as if the gov't has the right to violate the fundamental rights of someone based on little to no real evidence that a crime is GOING TO BE COMMITTED IN THE FUTURE.
Once the innocent person is in the "system", the financial, social and career damage it causes is irreversible.
Your position that "Well, he can have this evidence thrown out or the courts have to decide if his rights were violated," implies a total disconnect from any inkling of what true liberty means. Imagine being detained for 3-10 days while the courts decide whether to allow bail or not. What happens at work? At home? With your kids? (I know you don't have any) What about someone who has no family at home to bail them out?
These are consequences of the state's actions that should not be visited on anyone without DUE PROCESS BEFOREHAND.
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He should have never been arrested, nor had his property searched, nor had his property confiscated based on such a flimsy, uncorroborated report.
I agree generally but reserve judgement since I haven't seen the police report so I don't know what else the police knew before taking action.
You act as if the gov't has the right to violate the fundamental rights of someone based on little to no real evidence that a crime is GOING TO BE COMMITTED IN THE FUTURE.
I said nothing of the sort. I said threatening is a crime. If there is evidence of a threat then they don't need to wait for the person to carry out a threat/
Once the innocent person is in the "system", the financial, social and career damage it causes is irreversible.
Not necessarily, he could sue for wrongful arrest.
Your position that "Well, he can have this evidence thrown out or the courts have to decide if his rights were violated," implies a total disconnect from any inkling of what true liberty means. Imagine being detained for 3-10 days while the courts decide whether to allow bail or not. What happens at work? At home? With your kids? (I know you don't have any) What about someone who has no family at home to bail them out?
The same thing that happens in all arrest cases. It's not like arresting someone and detaining them for a few days upon probable cause of a crime having been committed is new territory.
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So have the police raided your house yet? Clearly you are a danger to Waipahu
You're not serious are you? This is getting redonkulous.
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I agree generally but reserve judgement since I haven't seen the police report so I don't know what else the police knew before taking action.
I said nothing of the sort. I said threatening is a crime. If there is evidence of a threat then they don't need to wait for the person to carry out a threat/
Not necessarily, he could sue for wrongful arrest.
The same thing that happens in all arrest cases. It's not like arresting someone and detaining them for a few days upon probable cause of a crime having been committed is new territory.
What exactly was the crime committed? What was the probable cause? A meme -- something lots of people share and probably didn't create themselves?
That's not probable cause. That's a knee-jerk overreaction based on someone other than the police interpreting the meaning of the meme in the first place.
A threat requires a named target. Who was the target named in the meme? "The alphabet bois" are not a target of any threat. The entire meme is hypothetical. "When they bust through your door" makes the entire thing contingent on that situation ever happening.
Not even close to "probable cause" standards.
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You're not serious are you? This is getting redonkulous.
I am joking of course but with the ability of sheeple be scared of everything and complain to police about it nothing would surprise me.
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What exactly was the crime committed? What was the probable cause? A meme -- something lots of people share and probably didn't create themselves?
That's not probable cause. That's a knee-jerk overreaction based on someone other than the police interpreting the meaning of the meme in the first place.
A threat requires a named target. Who was the target named in the meme? "The alphabet bois" are not a target of any threat. The entire meme is hypothetical. "When they bust through your door" makes the entire thing contingent on that situation ever happening.
Not even close to "probable cause" standards.
I have checked a number of articles to see if I can find more information on specifics but there aren't a lot.
From what I have seen so far the law enforcement investigation started from a tip that this guy was going to bring illegal firearm magazines into the state. So there you have the crime in question. At some point during the investigation his facebook post was discovered and a search warrant was performed. I haven't found any mention whether the facebook post was part of the search warrant being granted or not. The search warrant found illegal magazines and he was arrested for that. There isn't much other information about what police found.
So from what is available so far this is not a red flag case, not a pre-crime situation. The investigation was started a tip of an actual crime.
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His father's firearms were confiscated as well
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I have checked a number of articles to see if I can find more information on specifics but there aren't a lot.
From what I have seen so far the law enforcement investigation started from a tip that this guy was going to bring illegal firearm magazines into the state. So there you have the crime in question. At some point during the investigation his facebook post was discovered and a search warrant was performed. I haven't found any mention whether the facebook post was part of the search warrant being granted or not. The search warrant found illegal magazines and he was arrested for that. There isn't much other information about what police found.
So from what is available so far this is not a red flag case, not a pre-crime situation. The investigation was started a tip of an actual crime.
Please cite your sources.
You're making a statement of fact that the crime and probable cause existed. Show where you found that proof.
I expect you to live up to your own rules of debate.
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I have checked a number of articles to see if I can find more information on specifics but there aren't a lot.
From what I have seen so far the law enforcement investigation started from a tip that this guy was going to bring illegal firearm magazines into the state. So there you have the crime in question. At some point during the investigation his facebook post was discovered and a search warrant was performed. I haven't found any mention whether the facebook post was part of the search warrant being granted or not. The search warrant found illegal magazines and he was arrested for that. There isn't much other information about what police found.
So from what is available so far this is not a red flag case, not a pre-crime situation. The investigation was started a tip of an actual crime.
Not true. Use different "sources"
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Please cite your sources.
You're making a statement of fact that the crime and probable cause existed. Show where you found that proof.
I expect you to live up to your own rules of debate.
Sure thing
This link seemed to provide the most detail in terms of the order of the investigation. Other articles made mentions of the same aspects of the case but didn't seem to cover the order.
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/18/connecticut-man-interested-in-mass-shooting-arrested/
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Sure thing
This link seemed to provide the most detail in terms of the order of the investigation. Other articles made mentions of the same aspects of the case but didn't seem to cover the order.
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/08/18/connecticut-man-interested-in-mass-shooting-arrested/
The only thing the article says is he was attempting to buy magazines.
What does that mean exactly? He looked at mag warehouse on the internet?
The guy, IMO, didn't commit any crime whatsoever.
This shit is getting out of hand, the whole Constitution is being shredded.
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The only thing the article says is he was attempting to buy magazines.
What does that mean exactly? He looked at mag warehouse on the internet?
The guy, IMO, didn't commit any crime whatsoever.
This shit is getting out of hand, the whole Constitution is being shredded.
Exactly my point, too. Attempted purchase is not in the statutes. Either you have them (unlawful possession) or you don't.
They had no "probable cause" to search for illegal mags because there was no report that he possessed illegal mags. He was simply "shopping around" and could have just as easily decided "Oh, well. They're illegal here. Never mind." LE assumed he was planning the purchase because someone said he "was attempting" to buy.
I know a guy who was attempting to buy a machine gun. I have no idea if he ever did. Should I report him?
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Meanwhile (from today's paper), a local gem like this guy is running around in public with a (no doubt) very lengthy criminal history and still managed, despite all the prohibiting laws here in Hawaii that you and I must obey, to get himself a machine gun. Go figure. So I guess now they'll put him on probation again so he can rack up another "probation violation" while hurting more innocent people.
Bronson Oili, 31, of Pahoa with auto theft, possession of an automatic firearm, felon in possession of a firearm, failure to appear and three counts of violating probation.
(https://i.imgur.com/vdE88od.png)
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Meanwhile (from today's paper), a local gem like this guy is running around in public with a (no doubt) very lengthy criminal history and still managed, despite all the prohibiting laws here in Hawaii that you and I must obey, to get himself a machine gun. Go figure. So I guess now they'll put him on probation again so he can rack up another "probation violation" while hurting more innocent people.
Bronson Oili, 31, of Pahoa with auto theft, possession of an automatic firearm, felon in possession of a firearm, failure to appear and three counts of violating probation.
(https://i.imgur.com/vdE88od.png)
Bet he shops on wish...
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The only thing the article says is he was attempting to buy magazines.
What does that mean exactly? He looked at mag warehouse on the internet?
The guy, IMO, didn't commit any crime whatsoever.
This shit is getting out of hand, the whole Constitution is being shredded.
The article said the tip was that he was attempting to buy illegal magazines. That is enough for a law enforcement to open an investigation.
It says he was charged with possessing the magazines so I think they must have had an actual crime to charge him with in the end.
The real question in the trial will be how did they get from the initial tip to finding the illegal magazines and was it justified. The officers got a search warrant so they went through the proper process. This would then put the decision on the judge who signed off on the search warrant. Depending on how strong the case there are definitely a couple of points his defense attorney could attack.
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Exactly my point, too. Attempted purchase is not in the statutes. Either you have them (unlawful possession) or you don't.
They had no "probable cause" to search for illegal mags because there was no report that he possessed illegal mags. He was simply "shopping around" and could have just as easily decided "Oh, well. They're illegal here. Never mind." LE assumed he was planning the purchase because someone said he "was attempting" to buy.
Wow, the HPD paid troll sure is excited about this case, must be viewed with much eagerness down in the HPD squad bays.
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Wow, the HPD paid troll sure is excited about this case, must be viewed with much eagerness down in the HPD squad bays.
Good thing no one here violates any of the many unconstitutional Hawaii anti-Second Amendment-protected rights laws, nor even posts anything resembling a thought or desire to violate them. We're all obedient subjects, bowing in servility before our beloved masters.
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The article said the tip was that he was attempting to buy illegal magazines. That is enough for a law enforcement to open an investigation.
It says he was charged with possessing the magazines so I think they must have had an actual crime to charge him with in the end.
The real question in the trial will be how did they get from the initial tip to finding the illegal magazines and was it justified. The officers got a search warrant so they went through the proper process. This would then put the decision on the judge who signed off on the search warrant. Depending on how strong the case there are definitely a couple of points his defense attorney could attack.
They got a "tip" like how for 2.5 years the fake news said "credible source" for Russian collusion. I wanna see who gave that tip, if anything, it would have to be someone he knows or has a relationship with (friends, family, classmates, forum SN's, etc...) $20 says it was an annonomist call to 911.
So even if the "tip" was bogus, he still is arrested and his property taken. It will cost him money to defend himself and to get any guns back. Also he was expelled from school too right? So either way, he's screwed for the rest of his life. But also, he should not have done anything illegal, like purchase standard capacity magazines. He knew the law and broke it. Regardless of how he got caught, it opened the door.
But in the end, the mags don't matter, it all started with the meme and red flag law. PD got lucky when they searched his home and needs a story to cover themselves. Like I said, all my sources state red flag and not that a tip was given or he tried to buy standard capacity mags. And I have more trust in my intel than the mainstream media.
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They got a "tip" like how for 2.5 years the fake news said "credible source" for Russian collusion. I wanna see who gave that tip, if anything, it would have to be someone he knows or has a relationship with (friends, family, classmates, forum SN's, etc...) $20 says it was an annonomist call to 911.
So even if the "tip" was bogus, he still is arrested and his property taken. It will cost him money to defend himself and to get any guns back. Also he was expelled from school too right? So either way, he's screwed for the rest of his life. But also, he should not have done anything illegal, like purchase standard capacity magazines. He knew the law and broke it. Regardless of how he got caught, it opened the door.
But in the end, the mags don't matter, it all started with the meme and red flag law. PD got lucky when they searched his home and needs a story to cover themselves. Like I said, all my sources state red flag and not that a tip was given or he tried to buy standard capacity mags. And I have more trust in my intel than the mainstream media.
Some Cops make their own luck by guaranteeing they find what they are looking for whether it's drugs, firearms with serials removed or, in this case, >10 rd mags.
I'm sure none of the Cops requisitioned new magazines the day after the search... :wacko:
A Florida cop planted meth on random drivers, police say.
One lost custody of his daughter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/11/florida-cop-meth-drugs-arrests-scandal/
Former Houston officer accused of lying to get warrant
faces murder charges after botched raid
Goines obtained a warrant for a "no knock" raid from a municipal judge under false pretenses, which included
claiming a criminal informant purchased heroin from a man at the address the day before and that the man
selling drugs was known to have a gun, among other things, which meant there was no need for police to
knock on a door before entering, [Harris County District Attorney Kim] Ogg said.
Ogg said that because two people died while Goines was allegedly committing a felony -- tampering with a
government record by obtaining one under false pretenses -- he was charged with two counts of felony murder
in the deaths. She indicated a grand jury could consider capital charges.
Bryant was charged with evidence tampering because he provided a supplement to the original report after
the raid which contained falsehoods, authorities said. The officer allegedly said he had previously assisted
Goines in the investigation of the home and that during the investigation he found baggies with a brown
substance he believed to be heroin that matched the heroin purchased by an informant prior to the raid, Ogg
said.
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Good thing no one here violates any of the many unconstitutional Hawaii anti-Second Amendment-protected rights laws, nor even posts anything resembling a thought or desire to violate them. We're all obedient subjects, bowing in servility before our beloved masters.
I'll bet money us BI guys irritate Oahu people.
I sometimes think we'd be better off under a monarchy than
under the rule of Democrats.
Americans had lots of modern( in their day) weapons when ruled
by a king. Today in Hawaii we are essentially dis-armed
and have to depend on Police 20 or more minutes away
for protection, which legally they don't have to provide.
Eff you Oahu. I won't cry when you get nuked.
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I'll bet money us BI guys irritate Oahu people.
I sometimes think we'd be better off under a monarchy than
under the rule of Democrats.
Americans had lots of modern( in their day) weapons when ruled
by a king. Today in Hawaii we are essentially dis-armed
and have to depend on Police 20 or more minutes away
for protection, which legally they don't have to provide.
Eff you Oahu. I won't cry when you get nuked.
Dummy, going miss us and fall out gonna hit u guys. :rofl:
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Dummy, going miss us and fall out gonna hit u guys. :rofl:
I'm pretty sure anybody that can make a rocket, a bomb,
and send it someplace won't waste their time on me.
Pearl Harbor is a well known destination.
King street offices even better!
Aloha.
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They got a "tip" like how for 2.5 years the fake news said "credible source" for Russian collusion. I wanna see who gave that tip, if anything, it would have to be someone he knows or has a relationship with (friends, family, classmates, forum SN's, etc...) $20 says it was an annonomist call to 911.
So even if the "tip" was bogus, he still is arrested and his property taken. It will cost him money to defend himself and to get any guns back. Also he was expelled from school too right? So either way, he's screwed for the rest of his life. But also, he should not have done anything illegal, like purchase standard capacity magazines. He knew the law and broke it. Regardless of how he got caught, it opened the door.
But in the end, the mags don't matter, it all started with the meme and red flag law. PD got lucky when they searched his home and needs a story to cover themselves. Like I said, all my sources state red flag and not that a tip was given or he tried to buy standard capacity mags. And I have more trust in my intel than the mainstream media.
At this point you are speculating as the articles really don't give much detail to go off of. Police get tips all the time and use those tips to solve crimes, including tips from unknown individuals. Sometimes the tip is truly anonymous, sometimes it comes from someone who meets the cop but doesn't give their name, and sometimes it is someone giving a detailed statement. Ultimately the court will end up judging how much weight to give the tip in terms of justifying what the officers did next.
And according to the articles I have read on the story, it did not start with the meme or the red flag law. We can speculate and assume it was a fake anonymous tip, an illegal search, a falsified police report, and fear over a meme but there is no evidence to support any of that at this point.
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At this point you are speculating as the articles really don't give much detail to go off of. Police get tips all the time and use those tips to solve crimes, including tips from unknown individuals. Sometimes the tip is truly anonymous, sometimes it comes from someone who meets the cop but doesn't give their name, and sometimes it is someone giving a detailed statement. Ultimately the court will end up judging how much weight to give the tip in terms of justifying what the officers did next.
And according to the articles I have read on the story, it did not start with the meme or the red flag law. We can speculate and assume it was a fake anonymous tip, an illegal search, a falsified police report, and fear over a meme but there is no evidence to support any of that at this point.
Not speculating. Youre just getting bad intel.
So in CO, a 16 year old went shooting with his mom. No threats, but posted vid of himself shooting. School suspended him pending investigation if hes a threat or not. They showed PD the vid to clear up any misunderstanding. PD saw the vid and deemed no threat, but school board not happy with their assessment.
No laws broken by school board. They are within the law to do what theyre doing. Hearing date is set. So not a red flag, but same same. Someone can just report u went to the range and boom, suspension.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Not speculating. Youre just getting bad intel.
So in CO, a 16 year old went shooting with his mom. No threats, but posted vid of himself shooting. School suspended him pending investigation if hes a threat or not. They showed PD the vid to clear up any misunderstanding. PD saw the vid and deemed no threat, but school board not happy with their assessment.
No laws broken by school board. They are within the law to do what theyre doing. Hearing date is set. So not a red flag, but same same. Someone can just report u went to the range and boom, suspension.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Come on man! You know damn well that anyone who is interested in guns, and has access to guns is "a danger to themselves or others"... at least in the sense of an "accident" waiting to happen, if not outright homicidal mania. THEREFORE, the only commonsense gun safety solution to the epidemic of gun violence and potential gun violence is to ban all guns from possession by anyone other than agents of the government. That settles that, you racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic irredeemable deplorable ©*.
* Copyright Hillary Clinton 2016.
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At this point you are speculating as the articles really don't give much detail to go off of. Police get tips all the time and use those tips to solve crimes, including tips from unknown individuals. Sometimes the tip is truly anonymous, sometimes it comes from someone who meets the cop but doesn't give their name, and sometimes it is someone giving a detailed statement. Ultimately the court will end up judging how much weight to give the tip in terms of justifying what the officers did next.
And according to the articles I have read on the story, it did not start with the meme or the red flag law. We can speculate and assume it was a fake anonymous tip, an illegal search, a falsified police report, and fear over a meme but there is no evidence to support any of that at this point.
Hey, genius.
Tips are NOT EVIDENCE. They are "clues". It's up to LE to INVESTIGATE the validity of the tip within the bounds of the Constitution. Investigating does not include executing a warrant and searching the personal dwelling of the subject. That's not investigating. That's using a "tip" as probable cause in ABSENCE of actual EVIDENCE.
Nothing wrong with viewing the social media posts and other public info on the subject. They could also get a subpoena for phone and charge card records. It's how they gather information that leads them to corroboration of the tip.
Jumping from a tip (particularly anonymous) to a search warrant is unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the Cops and judges that justify their abuses of the system by saying they are stoping criminals aren't the examples you should be promoting.
If someone wanted to harass you or see if they can get you in legal trouble, they might make an anonymous call to the Cops saying you're dealing drugs. At 3AM, when your door is broken down, you & your wife are thrown to the floor with rifles in your backs, and they find firearms and other items they need to check for registration, you're transported to jail until after they investigate.
Welcome to your version of "due process".
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If someone wanted to harass you or see if they can get you in legal trouble, they might make an anonymous call to the Cops saying you're dealing drugs. At 3AM, when your door is broken down, you & your wife are thrown to the floor with rifles in your backs, and they find firearms and other items they need to check for registration, you're transported to jail until after they investigate.
Welcome to your version of "due process".
^^See "SWATing" that came arise from gamers.
Also the dangers of no knock warrants at 3am. Many situations where they got the wrong home and the homeowner opened and sometimes shot/killed. And it all stemmed from a custody battle, so the woman said her ex is a drug dealer. Not in HI, well that I know of, but on the mainland.
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^^See "SWATing" that came arise from gamers.
Also the dangers of no knock warrants at 3am. Many situations where they got the wrong home and the homeowner opened and sometimes shot/killed. And it all stemmed from a custody battle, so the woman said her ex is a drug dealer. Not in HI, well that I know of, but on the mainland.
Why is mainland even a factor? Unless the story falls inline with a Socialist/Democrat narrative against firearms, it's doubtful we'd ever hear of it.
Our press doesn't report on every police call. If they cared, they'd pick up on more stories that mattered. instead, they seem to only "investigate" stories that already have public visibility. Bunch of lazy journalists, to say the least.
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.
So in CO, a 16 year old went shooting with his mom. No threats, but posted vid of himself shooting. School suspended him pending investigation if hes a threat or not. They showed PD the vid to clear up any misunderstanding. PD saw the vid and deemed no threat, but school board not happy with their assessment.
No laws broken by school board. They are within the law to do what theyre doing. Hearing date is set. So not a red flag, but same same. Someone can just report u went to the range and boom, suspension.
Update on Colorado absurdity. Recommend people read the article for the details... just a couple of quotes.
School Backpedals After CO Teen Was Banned From Classes For Shooting Guns With Mother
https://www.rallyforourrights.com/school-backpedals-colorado-teen-banned-shooting-guns-mother/
After this story broke fellow parents, community members, and even elected officials contacted school admin and district board members to express their disapproval of this blatant violation of the student’s civil liberties, as well as the complete disregard for parental rights. And it undoubtedly had an effect.
The threat assessment hearing took place this morning and Nate has been cleared to return to class.
The SRO who was present agreed that the Safe 2 Tell system is sometimes used inappropriately by students wishing to anonymously seek revenge on another student.
On January 1, 2020 Colorado’s “Red Flag” Emergency Risk Protection Orders ERPO law will go into effect. I’ve long said ERPO’s will be Safe2Tell for adults, and students have dubbed Safe 2 Tell as “Safe 2 Swat”, referencing the act of “swatting“, a criminal harassment tactic of deceiving an emergency service into sending a police and emergency service response team to another person’s address. Had this same scenario taken place while the ERPO law is in effect, Justine [the student's mother] likely would have lost her firearms.
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Not speculating. Youre just getting bad intel.
So in CO, a 16 year old went shooting with his mom. No threats, but posted vid of himself shooting. School suspended him pending investigation if hes a threat or not. They showed PD the vid to clear up any misunderstanding. PD saw the vid and deemed no threat, but school board not happy with their assessment.
No laws broken by school board. They are within the law to do what theyre doing. Hearing date is set. So not a red flag, but same same. Someone can just report u went to the range and boom, suspension.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Bad intel? I checked about 6 different articles looking for more information. If there is a newer article with more information, then by all means present it.
Someone could report you for anything and the school could choose suspension. This is of course ridiculous and I hope the person making the call is disciplined.
My daughter is of age to go to the range now. I wonder what will happen if she brings in the target for show and tell. She could take in the brass but I think that might be playing with fire.
In high school I did get scolded for bringing a gun magazine to school, (the type you read) but nothing came of it.
What you said about Swatting is true though and illustrates that the issue is not just about red flag laws but false reporting in general. The guy that called in a swatting that got an innocent person killed by an officer in Wichita is now facing murder charges.
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Hey, genius.
Tips are NOT EVIDENCE. They are "clues". It's up to LE to INVESTIGATE the validity of the tip within the bounds of the Constitution. Investigating does not include executing a warrant and searching the personal dwelling of the subject. That's not investigating. That's using a "tip" as probable cause in ABSENCE of actual EVIDENCE.
Nothing wrong with viewing the social media posts and other public info on the subject. They could also get a subpoena for phone and charge card records. It's how they gather information that leads them to corroboration of the tip.
Jumping from a tip (particularly anonymous) to a search warrant is unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the Cops and judges that justify their abuses of the system by saying they are stoping criminals aren't the examples you should be promoting.
If someone wanted to harass you or see if they can get you in legal trouble, they might make an anonymous call to the Cops saying you're dealing drugs. At 3AM, when your door is broken down, you & your wife are thrown to the floor with rifles in your backs, and they find firearms and other items they need to check for registration, you're transported to jail until after they investigate.
Welcome to your version of "due process".
Hey genius,
Stop making false dichotomies. Evidence can be clues and clues can be evidence and tips can be both.
Tips are just a part of a case. No one said all you need is a small tip and you can go into anyones house without anything else. You are making the mistake in assuming that cops went straight from a tip to a search warrant. How about you stick to the facts.
You are pretty clearly misrepresenting what I have talked about in due process and you are trying to discount the importance of tips when they don't fit the narrative you want. Do you even understand that a tip can be from a known reliable source just as easily as it could be a completely unknown source? A tip is just a piece of information, stop thinking that by calling it a "tip" that you can somehow discern whether it is reliable or unreliable information.
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Bad intel? I checked about 6 different articles looking for more information. If there is a newer article with more information, then by all means present it.
The correct intel was given shortly after his arrest. 6 different articles don't mean much if the same people/orgs own each of the 6 companies or they all share the same bad intel. Remember how FISA was started for the fake Russia collusion story?
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Hey genius,
Stop making false dichotomies. Evidence can be clues and clues can be evidence and tips can be both.
Tips are just a part of a case. No one said all you need is a small tip and you can go into anyones house without anything else. You are making the mistake in assuming that cops went straight from a tip to a search warrant. How about you stick to the facts.
You are pretty clearly misrepresenting what I have talked about in due process and you are trying to discount the importance of tips when they don't fit the narrative you want. Do you even understand that a tip can be from a known reliable source just as easily as it could be a completely unknown source? A tip is just a piece of information, stop thinking that by calling it a "tip" that you can somehow discern whether it is reliable or unreliable information.
You say things that have no meaning expecting it to be some sort of fact.
EVIDENCE can be used as proof in a court of law. A TIP is unverified, unsubstantiated, uncorroborated information that can't be used as evidence unless the tipster testifies. Anonymous tips aren't often followed up by testimony -- by definition.
Saying "The tip lead to a search warrant that uncovered evidence that the tip was correct" is called "boot strapping". That's not due process. That's assuming guilt then subverting the Constitution to obtain proof of guilt.
You're pathetic.
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The correct intel was given shortly after his arrest. 6 different articles don't mean much if the same people/orgs own each of the 6 companies or they all share the same bad intel. Remember how FISA was started for the fake Russia collusion story?
Ok, so where is the correct intel? I checked multiple sources to try and do due diligence.
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You say things that have no meaning expecting it to be some sort of fact.
EVIDENCE can be used as proof in a court of law. A TIP is unverified, unsubstantiated, uncorroborated information that can't be used as evidence unless the tipster testifies. Anonymous tips aren't often followed up by testimony -- by definition.
Saying "The tip lead to a search warrant that uncovered evidence that the tip was correct" is called "boot strapping". That's not due process. That's assuming guilt then subverting the Constitution to obtain proof of guilt.
You're pathetic.
A tip can be used as evidence in a court of law and your definition of a tip is inaccurate. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Stop making crap up and then resorting to ad hom attacks to cover your ignorance.
https://www.gambonelaw.com/blog/testimony-of-confidential-informants-and-anonymous-tips.cfm
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A tip can be used as evidence in a court of law and your definition of a tip is inaccurate. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Stop making crap up and then resorting to ad hom attacks to cover your ignorance.
https://www.gambonelaw.com/blog/testimony-of-confidential-informants-and-anonymous-tips.cfm
Your link says exactly what I said. :rofl: :rofl:
Pathetic.
While law enforcement are permitted to use these tactics to identify and investigate crime, the law does not permit the government to prosecute a criminal defendant without some type of corroboration from independent witness. This corroboration would need to demonstrate a sufficient level of reliability to justify law enforcement’s intrusion on the criminal suspects privacy. The fourth and fourteenth amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual’s right against an illegal search and seizure. In other words, an individual has a Constitutional right to privacy unless the police have some type of reasonable suspicion or probable cause to intrude on it.
Courts utilize a totality of the circumstances analysis if the prosecution attempts to use an anonymous tip in its case against a criminal defendant. In most situations a Court will not prohibit the use of an anonymous informant where the informant provides information regarding future movements of a suspect which actually occur. The introduction of this evidence, however, would require the prosecution to produce a witness, more than likely a police officer, to testify as to his receipt of the tip and his observations based on that tip. Even if police officers observe the activity that the anonymous individual said would occur, that activity must still indicate that a crime has occurred or was occurring at the time of the stop and arrest.
Sitting at home when the Cops show up looking for evidence is not within the realm of the above article.
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Your link says exactly what I said. :rofl: :rofl:
Pathetic.
Sitting at home when the Cops show up looking for evidence is not within the realm of the above article.
Maybe you should read the whole article.
"Anonymous tips and/or confidential informants often form the basis for police surveillance and search warrants."
"Courts utilize a totality of the circumstances analysis if the prosecution attempts to use an anonymous tip in its case against a criminal defendant. In most situations a Court will not prohibit the use of an anonymous informant where the informant provides information regarding future movements of a suspect which actually occur. The introduction of this evidence, however, would require the prosecution to produce a witness, more than likely a police officer, to testify as to his receipt of the tip and his observations based on that tip. "
You claiming that anonymous tips are not evidence and not admissible is factually incorrect and as I bolded above, the person who provided the tip doesn't necessarily have to testify. . As I stated earlier, the tip is often the beginning of the investigation which ultimately leads to a search warrant or arrest.
You are presenting some picture that cops get a tip and based on that tip alone get a warrant. If that were true then yes you have a problem with due process, but in this instance there is no evidence (that we know of) to show the cops had only a tip and nothing else.
I admitted where I was wrong in another post, lets see if you are mature enough to do so here.