2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: hvybarrels on December 06, 2019, 04:55:14 PM
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What kind of cops would happily kick in doors for unconstitutional gun confiscation? This kind right here.
https://twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1202961963137093632
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I don't count using occupied vehicles for cover as "human shields."
That's a hyperbolic description. The Cops were not using the occupants as shields.
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They shot 2 civillians.
360 field of fire
Engagement in stopped rush hour traffic
Using civillian occupied vehicle as cover
Cluster fuck all around. I expect more from LE even under stress.
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My only goal the few times I've been shot at is to not die... If that means cover behind an occupied vehicle, than so be it... I'm going home that night, I got a family.
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My only goal the few times I've been shot at is to not die... If that means cover behind an occupied vehicle, than so be in... I'm going home that night, I got a family.
and screw the innocent civilians that just happen to be in their vehicles in the wrong place at the wrong time? Serve and protect, what a fucking joke (and yes I've been shot at many times in Vietnam so I know what it feels like). Cops are paid to put their shit on the line and not endanger civilians by drawing fire to them. Sorry those cops are frigging idiots plain and simple....... :wtf:
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and screw the innocent civilians that just happen to be in their vehicles in the wrong place at the wrong time? Serve and protect, what a fucking joke (and yes I've been shot at many times in Vietnam so I know what it feels like). Cops are paid to put their shit on the line and not endanger civilians by drawing fire to them. Sorry those cops are frigging idiots plain and simple....... :wtf:
I understand what you're getting at, but I'm not sure if shtf my actions would be much different.
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and screw the innocent civilians that just happen to be in their vehicles in the wrong place at the wrong time? Serve and protect, what a fucking joke (and yes I've been shot at many times in Vietnam so I know what it feels like). Cops are paid to put their shit on the line and not endanger civilians by drawing fire to them. Sorry those cops are frigging idiots plain and simple....... :wtf:
Given the attitudes/responses of some of the people on this forum who religiously defend Judge Dredd type police related shootings, you are not going to get much sympathy from those "shoot first and ask question later" fascist goons on this forum.
You are totally 100% correct though. Police officers are there to uphold the law and have a right to defend themselves, but must be held to a higher standard and not risk the lives of the people they are there to serve and protect.
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Given the attitudes/responses of some of the people on this forum who religiously defend Judge Dredd type police related shootings, you are not going to get much sympathy from those "shoot first and ask question later" fascist goons on this forum.
You are totally 100% correct though. Police officers are there to uphold the law and have a right to defend themselves, but must be held to a higher standard and not risk the lives of the people they are there to serve and protect.
I haven't given an opinion on the actions of the police.
My opinion was on the phrase choice "human shield" in the title.
Fascist goons? LOL!!
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My opinion was on the phrase choice "human shield" in the title.
Picking nits again. :wacko:
Using a shield with innocent humans in it between them and the gun fire.
Did you see them trailing behind the moving vehicle drawing fire while the (probably) panicking driver was moving forward basically trying to push the car in front to get away from the gun fire.
and screw the innocent civilians that just happen to be in their vehicles in the wrong place at the wrong time? Serve and protect, what a fucking joke (and yes I've been shot at many times in Vietnam so I know what it feels like). Cops are paid to put their shit on the line and not endanger civilians by drawing fire to them. Sorry those cops are frigging idiots plain and simple....... :wtf:
Well said mrgaf !
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Picking nits again. :wacko:
Using a shield with innocent humans in it between them and the gun fire.
Did you see them trailing behind the moving vehicle drawing fire while the (probably) panicking driver was moving forward basically trying to push the car in front to get away from the gun fire.
You should educate yourself on what human shield actually means before lecturing me on how I "nit pick".
Human shield is a military and political term describing the deliberate placement of non-combatants in or around
combat targets to deter the enemy from attacking these combat targets.
If we ignore the fact the police are not military combatants, you're saying the police deliberately put the civilians in harms way in order to deter the criminals from shooting at the police. :wacko:
Putting another person between you and someone shooting at you might like a "human shield" situation, but that's not what the phrase means.
If anything, the police were putting bystanders at risk by engaging in a fire fight with that many people in the line of fire.
Words are hard for some people.
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I think flaps human shield is used as a phrase rather than its litteral meaning.
Like i posted earlier, even under stress, im sure PD are trained enough to not use an occupied vehicle in traffic as cover. I could understand if it wasnt in traffic and they didnt know someone was inside.
But its obvious there were many cars stopped in the road and they were occupied. Did they pick the car with the least amount of occupants in it? Was that even a thought?
Although many shootings are evaluated in heinsight, this one is not treated the same.
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Rule #4 of Gun Safety:
Be sure of your target and what’s beyond it.
Seems to me they are guilty of violating this rule. The big question is did they violate any laws and/or their training?
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I don't count using occupied vehicles for cover as "human shields."
That's a hyperbolic description. The Cops were not using the occupants as shields.
The cops knew the vehicle would draw fire. If not using it as a shield, they were exposing the occupants to unnecessary risk.
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Rule #4 of Gun Safety:
Be sure of your target and what’s beyond it.
Seems to me they are guilty of violating this rule. The big question is did they violate any laws and/or their training?
Cops routinely shoot the place up. A short while ago, BI HPD shot up a truck in a crowded KTA shopping center in Hilo.
Not being shot at, just trying to stop what they "thought" was a suspect. Sprayed away and never hit anything but a stop sign.
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Cops routinely shoot the place up. A short while ago, BI HPD shot up a truck in a crowded KTA shopping center in Hilo.
Not being shot at, just trying to stop what they "thought" was a suspect. Sprayed away and never hit anything but a stop sign.
Not knowing enough about law enforcement, and in particular this agency, it would be beneficial to know what their policies are in this type of situation and if they were followed or broken.
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Not knowing enough about law enforcement, and in particular this agency, it would be beneficial to know what their policies are in this type of situation and if they were followed or broken.
Dont kill the hostage sums it up.
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Dont kill the hostage sums it up.
I would think the "go home safe at the end of your shift" is the prime policy of most cops.
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Cops routinely shoot the place up. A short while ago, BI HPD shot up a truck in a crowded KTA shopping center in Hilo.
Not being shot at, just trying to stop what they "thought" was a suspect. Sprayed away and never hit anything but a stop sign.
Just more evidence of how the "shoot first and ask questions later" attitude among an increasing number of law enforcement in Hawaii has gone too far, especially in the case where the people being shot by law enforcement are unarmed.
BUT WAIT, the segment of fascist goons on this forum who always defend such shootings by law enforcement by saying that they felt in mortal danger and had to unload their firearms to protect themselves WILL DISAGREE with you.
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The cops knew the vehicle would draw fire. If not using it as a shield, they were exposing the occupants to unnecessary risk.
You're talking "cover", not "shield".
Human shielding is putting civilians around military targets to prevent the enemy from attacking those targets out of (1) their reluctance to kill civilians, and (2) their wish to avoid the public backlash that attacking a civilian area might draw.
Human shields are used to prevent an attack, not to protect you during an attack. If the attack is happening, then the human shield failed. Your intent is not to survive the attack, but to prevent the attack altogether.
It seems like semantics, but you can't assume the words means one thing when they obviously apply to a more specific scenario.
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Cops routinely shoot the place up. A short while ago, BI HPD shot up a truck in a crowded KTA shopping center in Hilo.
Not being shot at, just trying to stop what they "thought" was a suspect. Sprayed away and never hit anything but a stop sign.
You should elaborate on just how crowded that KTA area really is. That time of day the fast food drive-in lines are about 20
minutes long. Virtually all the parking is used up. Traffic backs up into the streets waiting to get in to the area.
Target rich, environment, you bet! They did catch the woman later at her home, DUH! This is an island.
Kind of hard to disappear here.
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I would think the "go home safe at the end of your shift" is the prime policy of most cops.
As it should be. Police are not even in the top ten of the most dangerous jobs in
America. Having said that they need to be held more accountable for
bad decisions and "abuse of their powers under color of law".
A cop should be afraid to approach and disrupt a citizen, every citizen.
Instead they act like thugs that have unlimited powers to control
you. That is not "protect and serve" that is intimidate and harass.
Tried to get a Concealed Carry license lately?
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"...they need to be held more accountable for bad decisions and "abuse of their powers under color of law"....Instead they act like thugs that have unlimited powers to control you....
You forgot the part that some of them believe they can shoot anybody as long as they claim self defense.
Once more, it will be hard to put more pressure on law enforcement to be held accountable for bad decisions and abuse of power, especially when that minority of fascist goons in the 2nd Amendment community make excuses and confuse the issue with semantics for such irresponsible and reckless use of firearms by law enforcement.
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You're talking "cover", not ”shield”.
It seems like semantics...
Edited to please Flapp because I guess my semantics were off:
By all the other posts it seems like pretty much Everyone else knew what hvybarrels was talking about.
Hvybarrels. You should change the title to “using civilians as human cover”.
Sounds even worse.
Did you see the cops follow the vehicle that was trying to push forward.
Using a civilian occupied vehicle as if it were a SSD armored vehicle while drawing and returning fire.
Sh!+ is nuts.
I hope there’s no training that says to do that.
P.S. according to the BI guys, BI PD might include that training though. When in doubt, Make it rain regardless of backstop.
P.S.S.
That all depends on how you classify "dangerous".
Most of the "Most Dangerous Jobs" lists use accidental deaths as the #1 factor. They look at number of injuries and number of fatal injuries, all on an annual as well as per capita basis.
Loggers are #1 for fatalities. Police rank #14 from one list of the top 25 I found.
Semantics?
Picking nits ?
Poor Flapp, he sees the trees but not the forest.
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Everyone else new what hvybarrels was talking about.
Hvybarrels. You should change the title to “using civilians as human cover”.
Sounds even worse.
Did you see the cops follow the vehicle that was trying to push forward.
Using a civilian occupied vehicle as if it were a SSD armored vehicle while drawing and returning fire.
Sh!+ is nuts.
I hope there’s no training that says to do that.
Not "human cover." Just "cover".
I was right. Words are hard for you. :rofl:
You speak for "everyone" now?
Good to know. I bet "everyone else" also knows you only troll me to pick a slap-fight, then act like I started it. :wacko:
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As it should be. Police are not even in the top ten of the most dangerous jobs in
America. Having said that they need to be held more accountable for
bad decisions and "abuse of their powers under color of law".
A cop should be afraid to approach and disrupt a citizen, every citizen.
Instead they act like thugs that have unlimited powers to control
you. That is not "protect and serve" that is intimidate and harass.
Tried to get a Concealed Carry license lately?
That all depends on how you classify "dangerous".
Most of the "Most Dangerous Jobs" lists use accidental deaths as the #1 factor. They look at number of injuries and number of fatal injuries, all on an annual as well as per capita basis.
Loggers are #1 for fatalities. Police rank #14 from one list of the top 25 I found.
The big difference is loggers are not being shot and killed by the trees. The most common cause of death for Cops on duty was intentional shootings.
So, while logging is inherently dangerous, the nature of their fatalities is accidental, whereas the nature of Cops' deaths is intentional.
Cops are risking their lives with no control over the types of people they encounter, while the loggers are battling physics and the possibility of overlooking proper safety precautions.
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Cops are risking their lives with no control over the types of people they encounter,
As are we, but we are not allowed to defend outselves like Hawaii cops.
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Cops are risking their lives with no control over the types of people they encounter, while the loggers are battling physics and the possibility of overlooking proper safety precautions.
If law enforcement officers are not willing to hold themselves to the highest standards knowing they could be killed in the line of duty as loggers or Alaskan fisherman, then they should resign and find a personally safer line of work.
Shoot first and claim self-defense later, trigger happy, collateral damage to bystanders be damned police/sheriffs are just as or more dangerous to society as/than criminals.
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So whats the #1 occupation killed intentinally? Bounty hunters?
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So whats the #1 occupation killed intentinally? Bounty hunters?
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(https://i.imgur.com/R2Lzbwj.jpg)
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As are we, but we are not allowed to defend outselves like Hawaii cops.
Right, but Cops are called to places where bad things happen or are in the process of happening.
Different than you and me. For us, either we're unlucky or make bad decisions placing us in bad situations. Cops aren't given a choice.
Someone on this thread seems to believe Cops must expect to die, or they can find another job. Most Cops go their entire career without ever needing to draw their weapon on a suspect. He seems to think all Cops are exactly the same and should be treated as expendable.
Cops aren't perfect, but they deserve respect for putting on the uniform and dealing with some of the lowest lifeforms in society day in and day out. I'd like the people bashing the Cops to try joining the force and doing the job for a few years just to see what they have to deal with. I doubt he'd graduate academy training.
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I for one, since you say I can’t speak for anyone else, am not bashing cops. I have many close cop friends and respect the job they do.
But they all knew what they signed up for.
(Refer back to mrgaf’s post)
I am bashing the cops in this incident specifically. This was bat sh!+ !
Cops aren't given a choice.
Yes. Yes, they are. It’s called a job description and application.
If law enforcement officers are not willing to hold themselves to the highest standards knowing they could be killed in the line of duty as loggers or Alaskan fisherman, then they should resign and find a personally safer line of work.
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"Right, but Cops are called to places where bad things happen or are in the process of happening. Different than you and me. For us, either we're unlucky or make bad decisions placing us in bad situations. Cops aren't given a choice."
So what's your point?
Are we to expect that since they are doing us a favor, we must accept any reckless or irresponsible actions they take in bad situations?
"Someone on this thread seems to believe Cops must expect to die, or they can find another job. Most Cops go their entire career without ever needing to draw their weapon on a suspect. He seems to think all Cops are exactly the same and should be treated as expendable."
If you are referring to that OHA-hating guy, I think you are right.
However, I think he believes that law enforcement officers are not expected to die, but be ready to sacrifice their lives every day in the line of duty; BIG DIFFERENCE.
"Cops aren't perfect, but they deserve respect for putting on the uniform and dealing with some of the lowest lifeforms in society day in and day out."
Who said they should not be given all due respect?
"I'd like the people bashing the Cops to try joining the force and doing the job for a few years just to see what they have to deal with. I doubt he'd graduate academy training."
Your statement still does not nullify the higher standards police/sheriffs need to be held accountable as demanded by the community.
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"Right, but Cops are called to places where bad things happen or are in the process of happening. Different than you and me. For us, either we're unlucky or make bad decisions placing us in bad situations. Cops aren't given a choice."
So what's your point?
Are we to expect that since they are doing us a favor, we must accept any reckless or irresponsible actions they take in bad situations?
"Someone on this thread seems to believe Cops must expect to die, or they can find another job. Most Cops go their entire career without ever needing to draw their weapon on a suspect. He seems to think all Cops are exactly the same and should be treated as expendable."
If you are referring to that OHA-hating guy, I think you are right.
However, I think he believes that law enforcement officers are not expected to die, but be ready to sacrifice their lives every day in the line of duty; BIG DIFFERENCE.
"Cops aren't perfect, but they deserve respect for putting on the uniform and dealing with some of the lowest lifeforms in society day in and day out."
Who said they should not be given all due respect?
"I'd like the people bashing the Cops to try joining the force and doing the job for a few years just to see what they have to deal with. I doubt he'd graduate academy training."
Your statement still does not nullify the higher standards police/sheriffs need to be held accountable as demanded by the community.
As I said, I'm not commenting on the specific actions of the Cops in the OP. I don't feel the need to jump on the band wagon when the actions of the Cops in question are ... questionable.
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What kind of cops would happily kick in doors for unconstitutional gun confiscation? This kind right here.
https://twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1202961963137093632
I suspect that when bullets are flying at you, you probably find any cover you can without having the ability to give it much thought. Never been shot at though so just a guess.
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As it should be. Police are not even in the top ten of the most dangerous jobs in
America. Having said that they need to be held more accountable for
bad decisions and "abuse of their powers under color of law".
A cop should be afraid to approach and disrupt a citizen, every citizen.
Instead they act like thugs that have unlimited powers to control
you. That is not "protect and serve" that is intimidate and harass.
Tried to get a Concealed Carry license lately?
I think the issue you run into there is if the cop is afraid to approach and disrupt a citizen then they will be afraid to do so even when they need to. During the interview process they have to rule out not only those who are too aggressive but those who are not aggressive enough. Gotta find the happy medium somewhere in-between.
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I don't count using occupied vehicles for cover as "human shields."
That's a hyperbolic description. The Cops were not using the occupants as shields.
Good point.
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(https://i.imgur.com/R2Lzbwj.jpg)
you fascist goons
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I suspect that when bullets are flying at you, you probably find any cover you can without having the ability to give it much thought. Never been shot at though so just a guess.
*edit
I am 100% unarmed so my what to do when bullets are flying is different from those who are armed.
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I suspect that when bullets are flying at you, you probably find any cover you can without having the ability to give it much thought. Never been shot at though so just a guess.
100% correct because i am unarmed.
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Wait ...
Did you just say EEF has never been shot at
BECAUSE you are unarmed?
O0
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My mistake, I read it wrong. I meant my actions will be limited if someone is shooting at me because I am unarmed. Unlike police who are returning fire from cover. They are finding cover that allows protection and the ability to return fire. So their thinking is protection and the ability to return fire from a firing position. Where as my thinking is find cover and stay behind it.
I won't be able to defend myself and return fire because of being unarmed. So taking cover to return fire is not possible. So if someone is shooting at me, then my only option is to find cover or concealment and wait it out until it's clear to evac.
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*edit
I am 100% unarmed so my what to do when bullets are flying is different from those who are armed.
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For me, somewhere in between totally freezing and running around screaming like Chris Tucker.
:rofl:
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For me, somewhere in between totally freezing and running around screaming like Chris Tucker.
:rofl:
If you dont move, the bad guys cant see you.
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If you dont move, the bad guys cant see you.
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A moving target is much harder to hit.
Make sure to choose a path that's perpendicular to the incoming fire. Just like skeet -- no need to lead a target that's moving in a straight line away from you.
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Serpentine. Serpentine.
I don’t know about real life but works in paint ball. Especially if you’re running away.
Back to OP: this was batshit!
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Serpentine. Serpentine.
I don’t know about real life but works in paint ball. Especially if you’re running away.
Back to OP: this was batshit!
Zig zag! Gotta learn from Rickon Stark ;D
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I'm rolling stone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdaQHTWT_ZI