2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: eyeeatingfish on June 09, 2020, 08:24:19 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwc9K5W6fgw
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I havent watched the world news in a while. Even fox.
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I don't like Republicans and I despise Democrats.
Trump gets a raw deal from both.
I don't like Trump all that much, but he gets results.
Something I learned as a project engineer,
if you give someone an assignment, and it gets done,
even if you don't like how they did it, keep your
mouth shut and support them.
The mission is what is important.
Mission in this case is Keep Americans
free, wealthy, and safe.
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I don't like Republicans and I despise Democrats.
Trump gets a raw deal from both.
I don't like Trump all that much, but he gets results.
Something I learned as a project engineer,
if you give someone an assignment, and it gets done,
even if you don't like how they did it, keep your
mouth shut and support them.
The mission is what is important.
Mission in this case is Keep Americans
free, wealthy, and safe.
I have come to the conclusion that Trump is a very terrible leader. He is a decent decision maker but a terrible leader.
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It takes a strong leader to keep going in the same direction and thought, even though being bashed daily and for any decision you make. Idk of any stronger leadership characteristic.
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It takes a strong leader to keep going in the same direction and thought, even though being bashed daily and for any decision you make. Idk of any stronger leadership characteristic.
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Exactly. Some may not like his style, but if I had to follow Hildabeast, Joe "Pedophile" Biden, or Trump into war, give me Trump any day of the week.
People are so used to weak leaders throughout the last couple of decades, they've lost touch with what a real leader looks like.
Trump made promises, tried to keep them, DID keep many of them (more than the last 4 presidents ever did), and weathered a 3 year attack from the FBI, Intel community, and top levels of the Obama administration, a sham impeachment, attacks against his Supreme Court nominees to an unprecedentedly low degree, and yet he perseveres.
A lesser man would have given into the political BS and done what the swamp told him to, just to have a few moments of peace.
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It takes a strong leader to keep going in the same direction and thought, even though being bashed daily and for any decision you make. Idk of any stronger leadership characteristic.
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Strong doesn't mean smart or good though. Chairman Mao was a strong leader too.
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Strong doesn't mean smart or good though. Chairman Mao was a strong leader too.
Strength is not defined by murdering anyone and everyone who opposes you.
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I have come to the conclusion that Trump is a very terrible leader. He is a decent decision maker but a terrible leader.
Would you have a really "well spoken" and effective (at least in your mind) leader who leads naive sheep to their demise? Allowing the lower and middle classes to fight things out while the 1% continue to prosper in anonymity?
No, I don't want that. We had enough of that already with the "chosen one".
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I really do not get TDS. Well, maybe I mean I don't get irrational people. In the rare occasions that friends and friends of friends get into politics, it's amazing that they offer no better alternative to their hate. Yeah, in the recent elections, it's choosing between bad and terrible. That's on many levels of politics.
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Would you have a really "well spoken" and effective (at least in your mind) leader who leads naive sheep to their demise? Allowing the lower and middle classes to fight things out while the 1% continue to prosper in anonymity?
No, I don't want that. We had enough of that already with the "chosen one".
Biden had 40 years in government and 8 years as VP under "The Great Uniter."
Yet, things didn't start to improve until Trump won.
Now they want to incite violence, usher in a recession and blame him for a viral infection -- anything to lessen his chances of being reelected.
Results matter. Feelings are ever-changing. Lots of people felt good about Obama -- all the way to the unemployment office and foreclosure court.
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Biden had 40 years in government and 8 years as VP under "The Great Uniter."
Yet, things didn't start to improve until Trump won.
Now they want to incite violence, usher in a recession and blame him for a viral infection -- anything to lessen his chances of being reelected.
Results matter. Feelings are ever-changing. Lots of people felt good about Obama -- all the way to the unemployment office and foreclosure court.
Re: Biden, yup. He gets the big middle finger from me. Dunno how people can envision him being good for America. Can. . . Not. . . Fathom. . .
I would agree that things improved with Trump. Yeah, the market got schwacked Thu, but hey, it got schwacked from when it was in the 27,000 range (at least I think). Where are all the criers that were screaming doom and gloom when it dipped below 24,000 when the COVID "media fueled" pandemic hit?
Violence is an effective distraction. And guess which sector of society is easy to incide to violence. And when did that sector really start to prosper?
Agreed about Obama. I also can't fathom why people still view him and M. Obama as such great people? They listen to MSM too much. IMO, he has done so much damage to America under the guise of "unity". Yeah, easy to call for unity from up on your protected top of the mountain. Such BS. . .
Feeling? Yeah, there are two irrational ones here who constantly base their arguments based on feelings. . . :facepalm:
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Lots of people felt good about Obama --
Gag me with a maggot.
That illegitimate bastard cut my career short gutting NASA and spent the rest of his usurpation destroying the country.
All this BS going on today is a clear reflection of what the Kenyan worked to create. "the police acted stupidly" "You did not build that"
Do not get me started on the world apology and bowing tour.
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Strength is not defined by murdering anyone and everyone who opposes you.
It very well can be. Being strong is not synonymous with good.
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Would you have a really "well spoken" and effective (at least in your mind) leader who leads naive sheep to their demise? Allowing the lower and middle classes to fight things out while the 1% continue to prosper in anonymity?
No, I don't want that. We had enough of that already with the "chosen one".
I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Praises dictators
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
Fosters the racial divide
etc.
I have many criticisms about the direction Obama took this country but he was by far a better leader. Being well spoken is part of the job, half the work a president does is talking, negotiating, and leading. A leader who makes the right strategic or tactical decision but then utterly fails to lead is no less dangerous than a charismatic person who can't make good decisions.
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I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Praises dictators
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
Fosters the racial divide
etc.
You just described all the presidents since Ike
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I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Every Family in America will save $2600/yr.
Pulling us out of Iraq wasn't MY idea.
If Congress will give me trillions in stimulus money, I'll use it to make shovel-ready jobs.
...
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
https://youtu.be/CR2q3wjmzMM
(https://i.imgur.com/ux2O3d5.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/q4GDUA9.jpg)
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Too many to pick from...
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Top 10 Ways Obama Violated the Constitution during His Presidency
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/top-10-ways-obama-violated-constitution-during-presidency
Praises dictators
"And I said this to President Castro in Cuba. I said, look, you've made great progress
in educating young people. Every child in Cuba gets a basic education — that's a huge
improvement from where it was. Medical care— the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent
to the United States, despite it being a very poor country, because they have access to health
care. That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated. But you drive around Havana
and you say this economy is not working. It looks like it did in the 1950s." --Obama
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Fosters the racial divide
"The police officer acted stupidly."
If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin.
Chicago shootings are up? Let's send the AG to investigate ... that White-Hispanic guy in Florida instead.
etc.
I have many criticisms about the direction Obama took this country but he was by far a better leader. Being well spoken is part of the job, half the work a president does is talking, negotiating, and leading. A leader who makes the right strategic or tactical decision but then utterly fails to lead is no less dangerous than a charismatic person who can't make good decisions.
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I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Praises dictators
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
Fosters the racial divide
etc.
I have many criticisms about the direction Obama took this country but he was by far a better leader. Being well spoken is part of the job, half the work a president does is talking, negotiating, and leading. A leader who makes the right strategic or tactical decision but then utterly fails to lead is no less dangerous than a charismatic person who can't make good decisions.
I rather think of Obama as being the leader of the lemmings.
He may have been a great leader to them, and they willingly follow.
Looks like they are still running off the cliff.
I'm just standing aside and watching.
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I rather think of Obama as being the leader of the lemmings.
He may have been a great leader to them, and they willingly follow.
Looks like they are still running off the cliff.
I'm just standing aside and watching.
Obama was a great leader
the same way Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Osama Bin Laden were "Great Leaders".
By all accounts, Hitler was a great leader, too. As were Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun and every Czar in Russia & the USSR.
There is no standard template for what makes a leader capable. A leader has the ability to motivate people to follow him and to work toward a common goal.
When you hear, "The ends justifies the means," that's a sign you're backing the wrong leader. So far, I've never heard Trump do or say anything that demonstrates he believes that. Obama, however ....
To President Obama, the ends justify the means
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/the-administration/205379-rep-todd-rokita-r-ind
The president is fully aware that his ‘recess’ appointments are both unconstitutional and an egregious display
of executive overreach. Even Attorney General Eric Holder, a professional obfuscator, and the Office of Legal
Counsel (OLC) only managed a feeble defense of President Obama’s actions before getting back to more pressing
matters, like covering up the Fast and Furious scandal.
The OLC issued an opinion that dismissed pro forma sessions as merely parliamentary ploys, not real sessions.
This could not be more disingenuous, particularly in light of the administration’s reliance on a pro forma session to
pass a two month extension of the payroll tax cut in December.
Worse, the OLC opinion argued that the executive branch should essentially have the authority to determine when
the Senate is unavailable to perform its constitutional obligations. This is an extraordinary claim. Nowhere in the
Constitution is the executive vested with this power. Instead, each chamber explicitly holds the power to determine
its own rules and proceedings.
The Founding Fathers, motivated to form a new nation in large part by their negative experiences with executive
overreach, would be dismayed by the utter disregard this President has shown for the Constitution and separation of
powers.
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Obama was a great leader
the same way Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Osama Bin Laden were "Great Leaders".
By all accounts, Hitler was a great leader, too. As were Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun and every Czar in Russia & the USSR.
There is no standard template for what makes a leader capable. A leader has the ability to motivate people to follow him and to work toward a common goal.
When you hear, "The ends justifies the means," that's a sign you're backing the wrong leader. So far, I've never heard Trump do or say anything that demonstrates he believes that. Obama, however ....
To President Obama, the ends justify the means
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/the-administration/205379-rep-todd-rokita-r-ind
(https://i.imgur.com/nLxy2AO.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/nLxy2AO.gif)
"Immature" just doesn't seem to quantify the level of immaturity you are showing.
Maybe childish, but still ...
:stopjack:
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I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Praises dictators
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
Fosters the racial divide
etc.
You do realize most of what you described is the fake news agenda and the dnc agenda.
Unconstitutional ideas? Dont u support red flags? The chief and all prior chiefs deny 2a rights outside the home? Has any HPD stood up and said what they do is unconstitutional?
Had HPD made a statement saying they wont enforce unconstitutional red flag law, like how over dozens of LE agencies across the nation has done?
The world laughs at us because of morons protesting things they dont understand.
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Not sure what you are whining about with Obama riding a bicycle but aside from that, none of what you said is a rebuttal to anything I said.
You think that just because I criticize Trump therefore I am a fan of Obama? That would be a false dichotomy.
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You do realize most of what you described is the fake news agenda and the dnc agenda.
Unconstitutional ideas? Dont u support red flags? The chief and all prior chiefs deny 2a rights outside the home? Has any HPD stood up and said what they do is unconstitutional?
Had HPD made a statement saying they wont enforce unconstitutional red flag law, like how over dozens of LE agencies across the nation has done?
The world laughs at us because of morons protesting things they dont understand.
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I have made my arguments why I do not believe red flag laws to be inherently unconstitutional. (Some forms may be, the devil is in the details)
Most of what I am talking about is things I have seen in videos of Trump with my own eyes, not some "fake news".
As far as Hawaii not allowing concealed carry, not sure what that has to do with Trump?
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Not sure what you are whining about with Obama riding a bicycle but aside from that, none of what you said is a rebuttal to anything I said.
You think that just because I criticize Trump therefore I am a fan of Obama? That would be a false dichotomy.
Nope. I think you're a hypocrite.
You profess Trump is a bad leader, but then list everything you don't like about him which actually have nothing to do with leadership.
You have no room to judge anyone on leadership ability. Seriously.
If results are not good enough for you, then you're what's wrong with this country. You expect the President to be perfect in your eyes.
Here's a tip: The hard work of governing does not wait for perfect men.
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Nope. I think you're a hypocrite.
Your feelings are irrelevant.
You profess Trump is a bad leader, but then list everything you don't like about him which actually have nothing to do with leadership.
Those are all directly related to leadership.
You have no room to judge anyone on leadership ability. Seriously.
I don't? And you would know this how? Ad hom much?
If results are not good enough for you
What a silly justification. Hitler "got results". Police can "get results" when they violate your rights. Shall I continue with your flawed logic?
Here's a tip: The hard work of governing does not wait for perfect men.
I would happily settle for an imperfect president that could act like a president at least some of the time.
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I would rather not have a leader that:
Lies through his teeth constantly
Makes us look like a laughing stock of the world
Undermines trust in our government and the presidency
Jokes/proposes/entertains unconstitutional ideas
Praises dictators
Blatantly ignores ethical standards
Fosters the racial divide
etc.
I have many criticisms about the direction Obama took this country but he was by far a better leader. Being well spoken is part of the job, half the work a president does is talking, negotiating, and leading. A leader who makes the right strategic or tactical decision but then utterly fails to lead is no less dangerous than a charismatic person who can't make good decisions.
So your definition of an effective leader is essentially a Pied Piper. Just as long as they are presentable and makes a good impression. That was Obama. So many things going wrong now started in the 2008-2016 time frame. Our Divider in Chief leading the rats...
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So your definition of an effective leader is essentially a Pied Piper. Just as long as they are presentable and makes a good impression. That was Obama. So many things going wrong now started in the 2008-2016 time frame. Our Divider in Chief leading the rats...
Making a good impression is an important part of the job. Do we send negotiators in looking like slobs? Do we have ambassadors who insult the countries they are working in?
Imagine a military unit that has to attack a target and a general has made a smart tactical decision to attack it a certain way, however in the briefing he proceeds to insult some of the units, suggests unarmed enemy soldiers be shot, says the officers leading the platoons don't know what they are doing, and then suggests soldiers should use their handheld laser beams to melt enemy helmets. Making the right tactical decision doesn't make one a good leader.
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Making a good impression is an important part of the job. Do we send negotiators in looking like slobs? Do we have ambassadors who insult the countries they are working in?
Imagine a military unit that has to attack a target and a general has made a smart tactical decision to attack it a certain way, however in the briefing he proceeds to insult some of the units, suggests unarmed enemy soldiers be shot, says the officers leading the platoons don't know what they are doing, and then suggests soldiers should use their handheld laser beams to melt enemy helmets. Making the right tactical decision doesn't make one a good leader.
Like talking to a brick wall...
I get the example you mentioned. However, like I mentioned previously, many times, you woods rather have a leader that makes a “good impression”, is charismatic, etc who is really a snake in a rabbit’s clothing, whose leadership was for the betterment of himself over the people he leads. I would rather have a leader who doesn’t make such a good impression, it whose leadership is for the betterment of The People...
I was not blind to Obama’s faults, but people seem to be blind to the good that Trump does...
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Like talking to a brick wall...
I get the example you mentioned. However, like I mentioned previously, many times, you woods rather have a leader that makes a “good impression”, is charismatic, etc who is really a snake in a rabbit’s clothing, whose leadership was for the betterment of himself over the people he leads. I would rather have a leader who doesn’t make such a good impression, it whose leadership is for the betterment of The People...
I was not blind to Obama’s faults, but people seem to be blind to the good that Trump does...
I believe one of the main reasons Trump was elected was because he was NOT a politician (a snake in a rabbit’s clothing).
Trump 2020 :thumbsup:
Pence 2024/2028 :thumbsup:
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Making a good impression is an important part of the job. Do we send negotiators in looking like slobs? Do we have ambassadors who insult the countries they are working in?
Imagine a military unit that has to attack a target and a general has made a smart tactical decision to attack it a certain way, however in the briefing he proceeds to insult some of the units, suggests unarmed enemy soldiers be shot, says the officers leading the platoons don't know what they are doing, and then suggests soldiers should use their handheld laser beams to melt enemy helmets. Making the right tactical decision doesn't make one a good leader.
Or a military leader who insults those who dont do their jobs or fail at quals. Sugar coating is counter productive.
I rather have results than good presentation and no results.
Wrestled with a guy who rather look good and lose rather than look bad and win.
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Making a good impression is an important part of the job. Do we send negotiators in looking like slobs? Do we have ambassadors who insult the countries they are working in?
Imagine a military unit that has to attack a target and a general has made a smart tactical decision to attack it a certain way, however in the briefing he proceeds to insult some of the units, suggests unarmed enemy soldiers be shot, says the officers leading the platoons don't know what they are doing, and then suggests soldiers should use their handheld laser beams to melt enemy helmets. Making the right tactical decision doesn't make one a good leader.
I agree, military and politics are two vastly different things. There is NO DEMOCRACY in the military, nor should their be. That is one of the very reasons our military is floundering in this day and age. The leaders care too much about politics (look good) and not nearly enough about their actual jobs.
As said previous, Trump is not a politician, therefore he values straight up talk over "looking good"
I rather like it, even if I disagree with what he says. I value straight up vs. pandering any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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I believe one of the main reasons Trump was elected was because he was NOT a politician (a snake in a rabbit’s clothing).
Trump 2020 :thumbsup:
Pence 2024/2028 :thumbsup:
I agree a big part of why Trump won in 2016 that he wasn't a career politician.
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I believe one of the main reasons Trump was elected was because he was NOT a politician (a snake in a rabbit’s clothing).
Trump 2020 :thumbsup:
Pence 2024/2028 :thumbsup:
Oh he is definitely a politician, just not one trying to be politically correct and friendly to everyone.
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Like talking to a brick wall...
I get the example you mentioned. However, like I mentioned previously, many times, you woods rather have a leader that makes a “good impression”, is charismatic, etc who is really a snake in a rabbit’s clothing, whose leadership was for the betterment of himself over the people he leads. I would rather have a leader who doesn’t make such a good impression, it whose leadership is for the betterment of The People...
I was not blind to Obama’s faults, but people seem to be blind to the good that Trump does...
As I have said, Trump is a decent decision maker so clearly I am not blind to the good Trump does but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with wanting or expecting better out of a president. Why not have both, a decent decision maker and a decent leader? Having a terrible leader is just about as bad as a terrible decision maker.
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I agree, military and politics are two vastly different things. There is NO DEMOCRACY in the military, nor should their be. That is one of the very reasons our military is floundering in this day and age. The leaders care too much about politics (look good) and not nearly enough about their actual jobs.
As said previous, Trump is not a politician, therefore he values straight up talk over "looking good"
I rather like it, even if I disagree with what he says. I value straight up vs. pandering any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I don't mind that Trump isn't politically correct, in fact I quite like it but that is not the qualities I criticize him for either.