2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: rpoL98 on July 14, 2020, 11:27:39 AM
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I'm thinking there's a lot of AR-15 owners out there...
HB2744 establishes a new definition of:
"Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.
since the AR upper receiver houses the bolt... doesn't mention anything about being attached to, or purchased with, or registered with, a duly registered lower.
if interpreted as such, then AR-15 upper receivers, stripped or assembled, would have to be purchased through FFL, serialized, and registered, which implies the whole "permit to acquire" rigamarole.
Furthermore, everybody with an unregistered AR upper is instantly criminalized.
no shit.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=37365.new#new (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=37365.new#new)
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They can register my reproductive organs as an oral hygiene device
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They can register my reproductive organs as an oral hygiene device
heads
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Ya fuck that they are not marking my upper i will not comply . All my ARs were lost in a boating accident 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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They can register my reproductive organs as an oral hygiene device
:oops: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well they suck ass as it is and since they are all dick heads they should feel rite at home....... O0 >:D O0
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Ya fuck that they are not marking my upper i will not comply . All my ARs were lost in a boating accident 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Too bad we can’t lose them all in a boating accident but, as we all know, it will never happen cuz shit floats.... ;)
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Are you sure about that bill number?
H.B. NO. 2744 - A BILL FOR AN ACT
The purpose of this Act is to prevent gun violence and save lives by establishing the Hawaii gun violence prevention center
within the University of Hawaii with a mission to bring law enforcement and medical stakeholders together to analyze related
data and develop evidence‑based strategies to prevent gun violence in Hawaii.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_.HTM
Based on previous definitions, and recent court cases, the fact is, the AR-15 being split in an upper and lower receiver, means neither half conforms to the technical definition of firearm receiver.
By changing that definition, it would cover the "conflict" caused by the receiver's design.
This has nothing to do with safety or solving crimes, which has always been the rationale given for state gun registrations. It has everything to do with creating yet another speed bump for law-abiding gun buyers.
So, if I have a legally registered stripped AR lower, AFAIK that is a registered firearm. If I buy an upper receiver to build it out, I would have to register that firearm TWICE?
This is not a well thought-out bill (as usual). The only thing I think this offers is a way for the "ghost gun" 80% builders to have another part of the gun serialized and controlled.
If someone can mill a lower, I'm very confident the upper can be done just as, if not more, easily.
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How you gonna register your upper ?
All the serial numbers would be:
Square
Keyhole
A
Forge markings.
Serialize all the uppers in the State?
Are they crazy?
Each AR platform has 2 serial numbers for mix and match ?
If this shit is for real someone needs to open an engraving shop.
My serial numbers are going to be F-€{ You 1,2,3,4.........
This shit can’t fly.
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Who introduced this shit we need to get them out rite now ridiculous. Do these people have any brains at all
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If we're allowed to pick our serial numbers, as we are with 80% lowers, we should all pick the same one:
AR15
That'll help them "solve crimes". :rofl: :geekdanc:
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Are you sure about that bill number?
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM)
am I looking at the wrong version?
Part I of HB2744 SD2 creates a stacked-deck study group.
Part II contains:
"Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism. "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."
does not make any reference to relationship to a registered lower, nor does it provide any exclusions if associated with registered lower, etc.
2nd sentence just means that a featureless block of aluminum can be considered a 0% receiver, but regardless, a receiver since it can be milled, and therefore is a Firearm receiver
I'm not making this shit up, folks. seriously.
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https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_PROPOSED_.HTM)
am I looking at the wrong version?
Part I of HB2744 SD2 creates a stacked-deck study group.
Part II contains:
"Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism. "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."
does not make any reference to relationship to a registered lower, nor does it provide any exclusions if associated with registered lower, etc.
2nd sentence just means that a featureless block of aluminum can be considered a 0% receiver, but regardless, a receiver since it can be milled, and therefore is a Firearm receiver
I'm not making this shit up, folks. seriously.
Apparently the difference is HB2744 HD1, SD1, and SD2. SD2 was sent to the Governor, which does have the firearm receiver BS in it.
I was looking at the original, unamended HB2744. I'm good now. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
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So, if I have a legally registered stripped AR lower, AFAIK that is a registered firearm. If I buy an upper receiver to build it out, I would have to register that firearm TWICE?
Could could be way more than twice :
.22LR
5.56/.223
.300 Blackout
6.5 Spc/Grendel
7.62 x39
.458 SOCOM
.50 Bmg bolt
Etc............
If someone can mill a lower, I'm very confident the upper can be done just as, if not more, easily.
Way harder to mill an upper due to pressures and tolerances. That’s why there’s only so many forge shops that most manufacturers use.
Need metal reinforcement if trying to polymer one.
I’m no expert just an opinion.
But that statement sure ain’t helping us if people believe it.
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[
I'm not making this shit up, folks. seriously.
This shit is serious.
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Could could be way more than twice :
.22LR
5.56/.223
.300 Blackout
6.5 Spc/Grendel
7.62 x39
.458 SOCOM
.50 Bmg bolt
Etc............
Way harder to mill an upper due to pressures and tolerances. That’s why there’s only so many forge shops that most manufacturers use.
Need metal reinforcement if trying to polymer one.
I’m no expert just an opinion.
But that statement sure ain’t helping us if people believe it.
Gas pressure? If the blank is of quality metal, pressure won't be an issue.
Tolerances? As opposed to the tolerances when milling a lower receiver with needs tight tolerances for pins and allowance for heat expansion of the metal? No difference.
With CNC machines already on the market to produce uppers, the technical capabilities of the operator are becoming less critical.
Also, since the lower was the only part needing to go through an FFL, more time and attention has been placed on making jigs and processes for lowers.
If/when the uppers are controlled, there will be more time and attention given to the "80% upper" market, too.
The only thing people can believe in your post is: "I’m no expert just an opinion. "
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Don’t need a CNC to make a lower.
Lowers don’t need to be made of metal.
We need to serialize lowers anyway by current law.
The more you drag this out the worse it gets.
The only thing people can believe in your post is: "I’m no expert just an opinion. "
Again with the insults. Grow up.
Can’t you see that You’re gonna be the reason for serializing uppers with your nonsense.
:stopjack:
P.S. this shit can’t fly.
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Don’t need a CNC to make a lower.
Lowers don’t need to be made of metal.
We need to serialize lowers anyway by current law.
The more you drag this out the worse it gets.
Again with the insults. Grow up.
Can’t you see that You’re gonna be the reason for serializing uppers with your nonsense.
:stopjack:
P.S. this shit can’t fly.
Another Snowflake hijacking the thread, then posting the Stop Jack emoticon.
So typical.
You talk like you know all the answers -- for someone who's "not an expert." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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You talk like you know all the answers -- for someone who's "not an expert." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And as usual you don’t give any.
:geekdanc:
:stopjack:
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And as usual you don’t give any.
:geekdanc:
:stopjack:
You'll never understand the stupidity, hypocrisy and inconsistency of hijacking a thread multiple times while posting the Stop Jack -- multiple times. :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
So sad. :sleeping:
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Please post the post where I hijacked the thread.
You posted a bunch of nonsense and I hijacked the thread? :rofl:
You'll never understand the stupidity, hypocrisy and inconsistency of hijacking a thread multiple times while posting the Stop Jack -- multiple times. :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
So sad. :sleeping:
Apparently you’ll never understand the stupidity, hypocrisy and inconsistency of never answering a direct question you couldn’t Google.
:stopjack:
THIS SHIT IS SERIOUS !
We could have to engrave and register our uppers !
Shit did it pass ? It’s after midnight 7/14
P.S. Check out Man of Many Names ( Snowflapp’s) reply that comes next.
Same old crap.
Attack, divert, not answer anything and move the shell.
Put this here as I don’t want to derail this thread.
Email the Governor!
Thanks Rpol for all the info.
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Please post the post where I hijacked the thread.
You posted a bunch of nonsense and I hijacked the thread? :rofl:
Apparently you’ll never understand the stupidity, hypocrisy and inconsistency of never answering a direct question you couldn’t Google.
:stopjack:
THIS SHIT IS SERIOUS !
We could have to engrave and register our uppers !
Shit did it pass ? It’s after midnight 7/14
Getting emotional isn't going to solve anything. Nor is trolling me.
But you couldn't care less. You're doing exactly what makes you feel better.
Screaming at the sky. :wacko:
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if you sent the guvnor a VETO request, you woulda gotten an auto-reply like so:
"Dear Mr. rpoL98.
Thank you for writing to me regarding legislation that is of importance to you. All bills passed during the 2020 legislative session will be transmitted to me for approval or veto. I will have ten session days to make decisions on bills that are passed on or prior to June 23, 2020. I will have until the veto deadline of September 15, 2020 for any bills that are enrolled in my office after June 23.
For bills I have not yet approved or vetoed, I will be considering public comments submitted prior to the veto deadline.
The Notice of Intent to Veto deadline (August 31, 2020) is the last day I can send a notice to the legislature that I am considering a veto on any bills not yet approved.
However, if a bill is on the intent-to-veto list, that does not mean I will veto it. I can also sign it or decide to let it become law without my signature.
If a bill that has been passed is not on the intent-to-veto list, it will become law, with or without my approval, after September 15, 2020.
Please consult the legislature’s website at: <a href="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/">http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/</a> for status updates on bills passed during the 2020 legislative session.
Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.
Aloha,
Governor David Ige"
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notice that the COVID-era updated VETO deadline is Sept 15th, vice the pre-COVID deadline of July 14th. However, the deadline for NOTICE OF INTENT TO VETO is August 31st. If all this is new news to you, then get off your ass and ask the guvnor to VETO this bill.
https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/comments-on-legislation/ (https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/comments-on-legislation/)
:stopjack:
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done
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if you sent the guvnor a VETO request, you woulda gotten an auto-reply like so:
"Dear Mr. rpoL98.
Thank you for writing to me regarding legislation that is of importance to you. All bills passed during the 2020 legislative session will be transmitted to me for approval or veto. I will have ten session days to make decisions on bills that are passed on or prior to June 23, 2020. I will have until the veto deadline of September 15, 2020 for any bills that are enrolled in my office after June 23.
For bills I have not yet approved or vetoed, I will be considering public comments submitted prior to the veto deadline.
The Notice of Intent to Veto deadline (August 31, 2020) is the last day I can send a notice to the legislature that I am considering a veto on any bills not yet approved.
However, if a bill is on the intent-to-veto list, that does not mean I will veto it. I can also sign it or decide to let it become law without my signature.
If a bill that has been passed is not on the intent-to-veto list, it will become law, with or without my approval, after September 15, 2020.
Please consult the legislature’s website at: <a href="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/">http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/</a> for status updates on bills passed during the 2020 legislative session.
Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.
Aloha,
Governor David Ige"
===============================
notice that the COVID-era updated VETO deadline is Sept 15th, vice the pre-COVID deadline of July 14th. However, the deadline for NOTICE OF INTENT TO VETO is August 31st. If all this is new news to you, then get off your ass and ask the guvnor to VETO this bill.
https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/comments-on-legislation/ (https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/comments-on-legislation/)
:stopjack:
:rofl: :worship:
Good burn sir...
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Sending emails to the bill sponsors asking how one goes about serializing and registering an AR upper before the bill is signed so that one does not become a felon overnight. Only response so far was a staffer for Creagan who suggested asking a different representative since it appears that sponsoring a bill does not mean they understand it.
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Another Snowflake hijacking the thread, then posting the Stop Jack emoticon.
So typical.
You talk like you know all the answers -- for someone who's "not an expert." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Thanks again for reminding me why this character is blocked. No time for fools.
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That definition is an exact copy and paste of the federal definition of a firearm (Hawaii uses Federal definitions and ATF guidance for almost all definitions).
It is the same definition of a firearm that Hawaii already uses. So I doubt anything will change.
But who knows if HPD and state Attorney General will continue to apply the established definition or if they will make up their own additional “policies” and “interpretation“ like they always do.
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Done.
Damn the reply comes generic and fast.
I just told him the law is redundant as receivers are already registered and possession of an unregistered gun is already illegal.
(In 250 characters or less. Hit my limit though and had to edit.)
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That definition is an exact copy and paste of the federal definition of a firearm (Hawaii uses Federal definitions and ATF guidance for almost all definitions).
It is the same definition of a firearm that Hawaii already uses. So I doubt anything will change.
But who knows if HPD and state Attorney General will continue to apply the established definition or if they will make up their own additional “policies” and “interpretation“ like they always do.
understand. And the ATF has sort of avoided the issue, upper vs lower, which is the FFL-required firearm. People suspect that's why they dropped the case about the California guy doing the "push a button, was an 80% lower, now out pops your finished milled lower receiver".
But worried about if Hawaii now has the definition included in HRS, instead of saying "we do whatever the ATF does", they can now make up their own additional polices and interpretation, as you mention. Don't want to discover that suddenly Brownells will no longer ship a Aero stripped upper to Hawaii, because ... Hawaii.
Better to not have a faulty definition codified as Hawaii law.
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understand. And the ATF has sort of avoided the issue, upper vs lower, which is the FFL-required firearm. People suspect that's why they dropped the case about the California guy doing the "push a button, was an 80% lower, now out pops your finished milled lower receiver".
But worried about if Hawaii now has the definition included in HRS, instead of saying "we do whatever the ATF does", they can now make up their own additional polices and interpretation, as you mention. Don't want to discover that suddenly Brownells will no longer ship a Aero stripped upper to Hawaii, because ... Hawaii.
Better to not have a faulty definition codified as Hawaii law.
The same definition of a firearm is already in the Hawaii Laws. It is just repeating the definition. The only thing we have to worry about is interpretation of this law. If they wanted to be strict. Any little part (spring, barrel, pin etc) that could be used to build an 80% firearm could be controlled/outlawed.
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The same definition of a firearm is already in the Hawaii Laws. It is just repeating the definition. The only thing we have to worry about is interpretation of this law. If they wanted to be strict. Any little part (spring, barrel, pin etc) that could be used to build an 80% firearm could be controlled/outlawed.
thanks.
now I feel like The Village Idiot. admitted. owned. should I ask the mods to delete this thread? :oops:
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There’s a bunch of us standing next to you.
At least I emailed the Governor about these redundant laws that are trying to make illegal crap illegal.
What a waste of time and political grandstanding.
Getting emotional isn't going to solve anything. Nor is trolling me.
But you couldn't care less. You're doing exactly what makes you feel better.
Screaming at the sky. :wacko:
Check out Man of Many Names ( Snowflapp’s) reply to my comments.
Same old crap.
Attack, divert, not answer anything and move the shell.
And tell RobDmc I said what’s up.
He doesn’t know what he’s missing.
Figured I could derail the thread now. ;)
:stopjack:
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thanks.
now I feel like The Village Idiot. admitted. owned. should I ask the mods to delete this thread? :oops:
No no, good stuff to post here. Thanks for posting it The legislators obviously dont know what they hell they are doing either and we need to ask them about this stuff. Why have something legally defined wrong and then no one follow it? It undermines all of their laws and we need to make it clear that they cant even do their part time job well. If they are the highest paid legislators in the US, they need to at least be held accountable for doing a terrible job.
I just railed on my legislator for funding a gun commission while in my area we just lost 7 physicians. The state just fired 2 psychiatrists on the big island (leaving one state psychiatrist) because of lack of funding. A gun commission is a priority and not psychiatrists?
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No no, good stuff to post here. Thanks for posting it The legislators obviously dont know what they hell they are doing either and we need to ask them about this stuff. Why have something legally defined wrong and then no one follow it? It undermines all of their laws and we need to make it clear that they cant even do their part time job well. If they are the highest paid legislators in the US, they need to at least be held accountable for doing a terrible job.
I just railed on my legislator for funding a gun commission while in my area we just lost 7 physicians. The state just fired 2 psychiatrists on the big island (leaving one state psychiatrist) because of lack of funding. A gun commission is a priority and not psychiatrists?
I have $1000 that says one of the first things any gun commission recommends is better mental health treatment -- just like every other so-called "Gun Crime" or "Gun Violence" commission, Senate Hearing, or Town Hall has called for.
Any takers? :geekdanc:
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thanks.
now I feel like The Village Idiot. admitted. owned. should I ask the mods to delete this thread? :oops:
No it’s a good post with good content and input from people. I am just trying to emphasize that what this law comes down to isn’t the definitions, since those are already pre-established. What it comes down to is Honolulu AG and PD interpretation and policy in how they enforce the law. Which as many of us know is ridiculous. They just come up with rules and additional policies and interpretations of rules at will and change them on a damn near daily basis. Most thing the AG decides not to rule on, and just gives HPD carte Blanche to just do whatever they want.
If HPD decides to say any spring or pin could technically be used to build an 80% firearm we would all be pretty screwed.
This law is redundant and makes building unregistered firearms (which is already illegal in this state) even more illegal. The only real change I see is that law abiding citizens like us lose the option of being able to build and register our own 80% firearms. And it makes buying/ordering new 80% frames illegal in the state (which I think was the primary goal of the bill). As always criminals will find ways around these laws easily.