Post by: aaronc5362 on May 24, 2022, 03:32:08 PM
Also shot his grandma.
What a coward.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/24/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde.amp.html
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 24, 2022, 03:43:56 PM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: robtmc on May 24, 2022, 04:26:06 PM
They will keep at it until they think they have the leverage to nullify the 2nd Amendment.
Post by: ren on May 24, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
(https://www.ar15.com/media/mediafiles/259519/370BE349-532B-468B-81A5-9DBE34087817_jpe-2396183.JPG)
Shooter was a murder suspect being chased by police after he killed his grandmother earlier today. The pursuit ended near Robb Elementary. He apparently ran into the school and started firing.
Post by: Brystont1 on May 24, 2022, 06:15:33 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on May 24, 2022, 06:24:17 PM
Post by: Heavies on May 24, 2022, 08:45:01 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 25, 2022, 06:23:13 AM
Very little (or maybe none) will be focused on the individual and the loopholes in the laws that need to be fixed.
Post by: drck1000 on May 25, 2022, 07:01:31 AM
A lot of emphasis will be focused on the tool (firearm).Lots of liberals posting about connections with AR15. I haven’t seen a report detailing firearm, yet.
Very little (or maybe none) will be focused on the individual and the loopholes in the laws that need to be fixed.
Then there’s Steve Kerr 🤦🏻♂️
Post by: stangzilla on May 25, 2022, 07:20:40 AM
Then there’s Steve Kerr 🤦🏻♂️
he's catching up to Lebron James
Post by: groveler on May 25, 2022, 07:24:13 AM
Lots of liberals posting about connections with AR15. I haven’t seen a report detailing firearm, yet.I ran across a story about his gun but can't seem to relocate it.
Then there’s Steve Kerr 🤦🏻♂️
Is was a tricked out and expensive AR style platform.
Not that, that matters.
He could have used a truck at recess and then got away.
We have a nice island, Kahoolawe, there is a portion of the population that belongs there.
The mentally ill.
Throw them food, give them all the drugs they want, and and shoot anybody that tries to leave.
:wave:
Post by: macsak on May 25, 2022, 07:25:08 AM
Post by: stangzilla on May 25, 2022, 07:57:55 AM
Lots of liberals posting about connections with AR15. I haven’t seen a report detailing firearm, yet.
Then there’s Steve Kerr 🤦🏻♂️
saw where he posted 2 AR's on IG
news said he also had a handgun. used 1 AR and 1 handgun for the shooting. at least thats what i saw on the news this morning
Post by: macsak on May 25, 2022, 08:02:20 AM
aka securitah...
Post by: drck1000 on May 25, 2022, 08:28:41 AM
saw where he posted 2 AR's on IGNot that I'm super current on news or reports, but I saw postings of links to ARs right after the news broke. Even before they made the connection and posted info from his/her/it's social media. That is one interesting person. . .
news said he also had a handgun. used 1 AR and 1 handgun for the shooting. at least thats what i saw on the news this morning
All no matter. Everyone banding together to "do something". . .
Post by: macsak on May 25, 2022, 08:35:34 AM
Post by: ren on May 25, 2022, 08:35:49 AM
Post by: oldfart on May 25, 2022, 08:40:50 AM
we guard money with armed people, why cant we guard our children the same?============
I've often thought the same.
I'll bet it would be easy to form something like a neighborhood watch program just for schools.
I would gladly volunteer for the school near my house.
Post by: M450N91 on May 25, 2022, 08:41:57 AM
But the focus & push would still be on the guns..looked like he owned a Daniel Defense w/an Eotech, & a Springfield Saint (a2)
With NRA conference coming this weekend in Houston, would yall think it was a coincidence?
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
saw where he posted 2 AR's on IG
news said he also had a handgun. used 1 AR and 1 handgun for the shooting. at least thats what i saw on the news this morning
Gritty surveillance video shows him outside the school, not by an entrance, but more like the side of a building holding a rifle. Still shot was gritty, so all you see is a long black item he's holding.
Per Larue Tactical IG vid/post, LEO interview said shooter killed his grandma and was on the run, then crashed his car. That is when a passing by Border Patrol agent stopped and exchanged gunfire with him. Wounding the agent and then the shooter went inside the school.
On an interesting turn of events, my father who is pretty anti 2a, I asked him if he had any questions about this. He said that no more laws could have prevented this because a sick individual won't obey any laws. He even mentioned banning of all guns wouldn't have stopped this. Evil will find a way. Where years prior, he wants more background checks and stuff that the fake news mentions. I'm hoping my educating him of what these politicians are pushing is opening his mind. He even stated that he heard about the "background checks" this morning and that it's just all for show from politicians. WOW.
MDA and Ige will have a gun control rally outside the capitol on June 3rd. Orange is the color to wear.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 08:49:26 AM
Totally tragic & the shooter is a F'N coward & sick! Thoughts & prayers to the victims/family.
But the focus & push would still be on the guns..looked like he owned a Daniel Defense w/an Eotech, & a Springfield Saint (a2)
With NRA conference coming this weekend in Houston, would yall think it was a coincidence?
Don't forget the 9th circuit ruling about 18 year olds. 2nd 18 year old shooter in a few weeks of the ruling. Prior to, when was the last 18 year old shooter? I'm going by memory and wanna say Columbine?
Post by: ren on May 25, 2022, 08:56:08 AM
============
I've often thought the same.
I'll bet it would be easy to form something like a neighborhood watch program just for schools.
I would gladly volunteer for the school near my house.
another narrative of "we dont want guns around the children"
Weel, its eithe good guys with guns or bad guys with guns. Choose
Post by: robtmc on May 25, 2022, 09:20:29 AM
Here we go again….Amazingly convenient timing, no?
These are NOT random events.
Post by: oldfart on May 25, 2022, 10:08:29 AM
another narrative of "we dont want guns around the children"...
Weel, its eithe good guys with guns or bad guys with guns. Choose
If I were to run an overwatch program, I would have volunteers dress in plain clothes and carry 2 small pepper sprays and 2 cellphones.
Because 2 is one and 1 is none.
Post by: aieahound on May 25, 2022, 10:27:00 AM
Reportedly Bought guns legally from FFL gun shop.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/25/uvalde-shooter-bought-gun-legally/
Post by: stangzilla on May 25, 2022, 10:35:39 AM
like Kamehameha has a pretty secure entry, basically 1 road in. although I hear there is a back road. but still very difficult to just drive or walk in unseen
schools need to build more walls, fences, have tighter security to screen people that don't belong there.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 11:17:55 AM
Post by: Jl808 on May 25, 2022, 11:18:43 AM
And get rid of gun free zones? (Soft targets)
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 11:32:45 AM
CCW permits for parents?
And get rid of gun free zones? (Soft targets)
Texas issues CCW's, unlike HI. The problem is the Federal Gun Free School Zone act. You cannot be within 1000 feet of a school with a gun, unless it is in a locked case. Or you can CCW, but you need that states issued CCW permit (no reciprocity). So this means no open carry. Many do not enforce this law, as it is more of an add on charge. When I last looked into this around 2018, about 50 people nation wide were charged with violating this. 1 guy was challenging it because he was not a felon, but 996 feet near a school when he was pulled over for tint. IDK what came about his challenge. But think about Hi, how many schools do you pass on the way to the range? Everyone should have their gun in a locked case. No gun socks or card board box the gun came in as they drive to the range.
Then there is directly on school property, you need the permission from the principal or someone of that authority to carry. So parents dropping their kids off in the parking lot (school property) cannot CCW even with a CCW permit. So if a parent is carrying, they would have to drop their kids off on the side walk and have their states issued CCW permit.
Doesn't this federal law make so much sense?
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 11:41:55 AM
Bullied in school. Sent msg's via FB that he was gonna shoot his grandma, he shot his grandma, and was going to shoot up a school.
Classmates called him "the school shooter" when he was in school. So sounds like we need to teach kids to not pick on anyone, even if they're a loner, poor, etc...Because you might be adding fuel to the fire.
This was the case in Columbine by mainly the jocks. Not all were bad, they let 1 jock go because he was nice to them (In the parking lot and the jock was wearing his letterman, they told him to leave). IDK about other school shootings at the top of my head that involved a student and bullying.
Post by: DocMercy on May 25, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
On an interesting turn of events, my father who is pretty anti 2a, I asked him if he had any questions about this. He said that no more laws could have prevented this because a sick individual won't obey any laws.
One thing the government has not tried is DNA profiling. Ok, 5th amendment advocates will scream about self-incrimination, but the workaround is to set up the database first, and get samples from known killers like Richard Ramirez and Salvador Ramos (notice how these two look alike). When the mother of a future killer gets an amniocentesis, the DNA lab can warn her about abnormalities that are similar to those of serial killers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945301/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945301/)
Ramos failed to graduate from high school, which is another positive indicator. Texas could have forced him to wait until he was 21 before he was allowed to purchase or possess a weapon.
Post by: pacwire on May 25, 2022, 01:02:21 PM
Ever if we were to "Ban" guns or "Certain" guns, this won't really 'fix" the problem facing the US today.
Is :"SOCIAL MEDIA" part to blame? should we "BAN" that?
Are Automobiles to Blame? Should we "Ban" That?
Seems most democrats think "GUNS" are evil.
When watching the Texas Gov at his news conference, a very large part of the picture emerged in my mind: "MENTAL ILLNESS".
For all of the "LEGAL" gun owners, i think when the media does their research, they will find most gun owners are very law abiding!
Do we need better monitoring of SOCAL MEDIA Platforms? It's the "SEE SOMETHING< SAY SOMETHING" that needs to be done.
In these past mass shooting events, there were individuals that knew something was going to happen.
Yet they said nothing.....
It's Sad....When I was raised, we:
1) Right or wrong respected our Elders
2) Respected Law enforcment
3) didn't really use Social Media since there was no internet
I was born in the 60's.
Well Just my 2 cents
Take care everyone!
Pray for the US!
Stay safe
Support the 2A
Aloha!
Post by: Brystont1 on May 25, 2022, 01:03:25 PM
Texas issues CCW's, unlike HI. The problem is the Federal Gun Free School Zone act. You cannot be within 1000 feet of a school with a gun, unless it is in a locked case. Or you can CCW, but you need that states issued CCW permit (no reciprocity). So this means no open carry. Many do not enforce this law, as it is more of an add on charge. When I last looked into this around 2018, about 50 people nation wide were charged with violating this. 1 guy was challenging it because he was not a felon, but 996 feet near a school when he was pulled over for tint. IDK what came about his challenge. But think about Hi, how many schools do you pass on the way to the range? Everyone should have their gun in a locked case. No gun socks or card board box the gun came in as they drive to the range.
Then there is directly on school property, you need the permission from the principal or someone of that authority to carry. So parents dropping their kids off in the parking lot (school property) cannot CCW even with a CCW permit. So if a parent is carrying, they would have to drop their kids off on the side walk and have their states issued CCW permit.
Doesn't this federal law make so much sense?
CMO I think Texas is constitutional carry so they don’t even need to get CCW permit. Also I thought Abbot signed legislation that for 172+ school district that allow teachers to CCW in school? I wonder if uvalde was in that district?
This one is certainly different. Steve Kerr acting on the podium, Beto interrupting Abbots press conference, Moore calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment. If we can survive this one I think we’ll be ok. Anyone here remember the gun climate when sandy hook happened?
Post by: hvybarrels on May 25, 2022, 01:06:02 PM
One thing the government has not tried is DNA profiling. Ok, 5th amendment advocates will scream about self-incrimination, but the workaround is to set up the database first, and get samples from known killers like Richard Ramirez and Salvador Ramos (notice how these two look alike). When the mother of a future killer gets an amniocentesis, the DNA lab can warn her about abnormalities that are similar to those of serial killers.
Nice try Bill Gates. No you can't patent my gene sequence and invent new diseases as an excuse to sell it back to me.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
One thing the government has not tried is DNA profiling. Ok, 5th amendment advocates will scream about self-incrimination, but the workaround is to set up the database first, and get samples from known killers like Richard Ramirez and Salvador Ramos (notice how these two look alike). When the mother of a future killer gets an amniocentesis, the DNA lab can warn her about abnormalities that are similar to those of serial killers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945301/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945301/)
Ramos failed to graduate from high school, which is another positive indicator. Texas could have forced him to wait until he was 21 before he was allowed to purchase or possess a weapon.
This is an entire new rabbit hole to go down. This prediction of DNA usage would be like red flag laws or Minority Report type of situations.
Also another hole to go down is the age to own a gun. Which is what's in the court system (9th circuit). So (2) 18 year old shooters within weeks of the ruling. 1 has to ask questions on the timing. Never mind the 18 or younger gang related shootings in other cities.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 01:10:33 PM
CMO I think Texas is constitutional carry so they don’t even need to get CCW permit. Also I thought Abbot signed legislation that for 172+ school district that allow teachers to CCW in school? I wonder if uvalde was in that district?
This one is certainly different. Steve Kerr acting on the podium, Beto interrupting Abbots press conference, Moore calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment. If we can survive this one I think we’ll be ok. Anyone here remember the gun climate when sandy hook happened?
Even if a state is constitutional carry, that is state level law. Federal law still requires a CCW permit for 1000ft school zones. Which is why some AZ residents still get their CCW, because it doesn't trump federal law.
IDK if the school was part of it, but we do know that neither of the teachers were armed because there is no mention of them attempting to shoot back or a handgun found on the teacher or in her hands. Many people think because TX is pro 2a, that everyone is carrying. But this is very untrue. My wife visited various cities (all major cities there are blue) and didn't see 1 person open carrying. A few years ago had that Walmart in El Paso shooting and no one as armed to return fire.
Beto is just there to get his name in the papers. Such a scumbag.
Post by: hvybarrels on May 25, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 01:46:32 PM
Post by: aieahound on May 25, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-school-shooting-suspects-grandfather-185152965.html
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 04:36:52 PM
“His grandson did not know how to drive and did not have a driver's license, said Reyes, who said he was unsure how Ramos had purchased the weapons.”State ID. He worked at Wendys and had to cash his checks somehow.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-school-shooting-suspects-grandfather-185152965.html
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Post by: rpoL98 on May 25, 2022, 04:43:32 PM
Per Colin Noir, the school banned teachers and staff from carrying.ya think they're gonna revisit that policy? or double-down on stupid?
Post by: hvybarrels on May 25, 2022, 06:08:41 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 25, 2022, 06:52:24 PM
How did a kid working part time at Wendy’s afford such expensive rifles?And optic.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 25, 2022, 07:08:44 PM
How did a kid working part time at Wendy’s afford such expensive rifles?
This assumes Wendy's was his only source of income or credit.
Maybe he saved his stimulus checks?
Post by: RSN172 on May 25, 2022, 10:30:48 PM
https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-chooses-sides-on-gun-control-debate
Post by: hvybarrels on May 25, 2022, 11:19:32 PM
This assumes Wendy's was his only source of income or credit.
Maybe he saved his stimulus checks?
Getting the money together is one thing, but it’s curious that he picked the professional setups. That’s not the usual market for a first time buyer with limited funds. Newbies normally just want something that goes bang and then upgrade later because of reliability issues or to impress their friends. Either he had someone pointing him in that direction or the guy behind the counter at the gun shop was a heck of a salesman.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 26, 2022, 08:42:29 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 26, 2022, 09:43:59 AM
Because we don't control the media, the message most Americans receive are that guns are bad.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 26, 2022, 10:51:03 AM
Getting the money together is one thing, but it’s curious that he picked the professional setups. That’s not the usual market for a first time buyer with limited funds. Newbies normally just want something that goes bang and then upgrade later because of reliability issues or to impress their friends. Either he had someone pointing him in that direction or the guy behind the counter at the gun shop was a heck of a salesman.
If he had decided to commit his crimes before making his purchases, then price would not be an issue. He'd be willing to pay for the best firearms his savings/credit allowed based on the gun shop's opinions.
He's been labeled "school shooter" by classmates for a long time apparently based on his behavior.
Post by: drck1000 on May 26, 2022, 11:21:23 AM
Could simply be he was a damn spoiled brat who always got what he wanted. Never had an adult to put him in his place, thus all sorts of issues, like living in his own fantasy land. . . oh wait, that was macsak's chew toy who left the board.
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 26, 2022, 11:29:55 AM
The sad tragedies from the work of one cowardly sick fuck.
Post by: groveler on May 26, 2022, 11:38:36 AM
Cops stood around for nearly an HOUR!
While the nutcase murdered kids.
I don't like Democrat controlled unionized cops anyways, but what happened there
was unforgivable.
The whole thing almost looks like it was arranged to fit some political agenda.
>:D
Post by: robtmc on May 26, 2022, 11:47:37 AM
The whole thing almost looks like it was arranged to fit some political agenda.Read elsewhere, but food for thought:
"Democrats don't want solutions. They want shootings to continue in order to justify using lethal force against firearms owners."
Post by: aieahound on May 26, 2022, 11:52:56 AM
But by most accounts they held back for at least 40 minutes.
Said they had him contained or pinned down.
Contained with 21 other people - 2 adults and 19 kids.
They had to hear the gun shots.
One report said couldn’t breach the door. :wtf:
I hope the story comes out.
That said this was a sick fu({.
Post by: groveler on May 26, 2022, 12:05:09 PM
I don’t know what actually happened.I've never been in an elementary school class room that didn't have lots of windows.
But by most accounts they held back for at least 40 minutes.
Said they had him contained or pinned down.
Contained with 21 other people - 2 adults and 19 kids.
They had to hear the gun shots.
One report said couldn’t breach the door. :wtf:
I hope the story comes out.
That said this was a sick fu({.
:geekdanc:
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 26, 2022, 12:07:10 PM
When I was in high school, I got my first job. Of which I caught the bus to or got dropped off. I saved my paychecks for about a year to have enough money to buy a car. This cost me $2,500 and I made $10 as a part time worker.
So the shooter didn't have a car or drivers license. It could be he was saving his paychecks for a car, but then decided to go active shooter instead and spend that thousands of $ on guns and ammo instead. So it is possible if his grandparents didn't give him money or have family money, that he could have had enough to buy the guns.
But on the other side, I have friends who were like me, but didn't have to buy their own car. So they didn't have any $ saved up because there was no goal to reach. So paycheck was spent fully as they earned it.
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 26, 2022, 12:12:14 PM
The whole thing almost looks like it was arranged to fit some political agenda.
>:D
Can't be helped when we look at the current events that happened recently with the 18 and 21 year old debate, an old retard extreme left ass kissing puppet POTUS pushing gun control and then these events that fit into the narrative.
But as unfathomable as it seems, if by some slim chance this was "allowed" to happen just to pursue a political agenda, then I don't know who really are the sick fucks.........
Post by: aletheuo137 on May 26, 2022, 12:30:50 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/uvalde-mother-placed-handcuffs-federal-marshals-attempting-enter-school-save-child-salvador-ramos-went-killing-spree/
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Post by: changemyoil66 on May 26, 2022, 12:34:37 PM
But as unfathomable as it seems, if by some slim chance this was "allowed" to happen just to pursue a political agenda, then I don't know who really are the sick fucks.........
It's not unfathomable at all. They plan and use these events to push their anti 2a agenda. #everythingisaconspiracy
Post by: aieahound on May 26, 2022, 12:43:57 PM
Uvalde Mother Placed in Handcuffs by Federal Marshals For Attempting to Enter School to Save Her Child While Salvador Ramos Went on Killing Spree
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/uvalde-mother-placed-handcuffs-federal-marshals-attempting-enter-school-save-child-salvador-ramos-went-killing-spree/
“ A witness who lived across the street from the elementary school said onlookers begged officers outside the school to do something as gunfire rang out inside the building.”
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 26, 2022, 01:02:57 PM
WTF happened to this dude? How does someone slide this far off the rails without anyone noticing? It's like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs.
Problem is that a lot of red flags we hear about afterwards wouldn't have justified action. I don't know if that is true in this specific case. We can all look back and say clearly something was wrong with him but it wasn't always enough to stop them.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 26, 2022, 01:07:44 PM
Idk guys this one feels different. I really hope the senators stay strong and not give in to any of the gun control laws right now. I wish someone would tell Steve Kerr to stfu and stick to basketball.
I agree, this one feels a little different but I think holding strong is the wrong answer, I think holding strong is going to get us crucified. We can stand our ground chanting about constitutional rights but I think this makes us seem out of touch. We stonewall against further gun control laws but do so without providing any real systemic alternative solution. We even resist non-gun control ideas.
Post by: hvybarrels on May 26, 2022, 01:29:57 PM
I agree, this one feels a little different but I think holding strong is the wrong answer, I think holding strong is going to get us crucified. We can stand our ground chanting about constitutional rights but I think this makes us seem out of touch. We stonewall against further gun control laws but do so without providing any real systemic alternative solution. We even resist non-gun control ideas.
Um... I think you got lost on the way to Moms Demand Action forum.
Post by: groveler on May 26, 2022, 01:31:02 PM
“ A witness who lived across the street from the elementary school said onlookers begged officers outside the school to do something as gunfire rang out inside the building.”That is some of the schiff I've been reading about.
That is why I'm angry.
:grrr:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 26, 2022, 01:33:24 PM
Um... I think you got lost on the way to Moms Demand Action forum.
Interesting, you didn't claim I was wrong anywhere in my statement
Post by: hvybarrels on May 26, 2022, 01:33:38 PM
That is some of the schiff I've been reading about.
That is why I'm angry.
:grrr:
If the cops are going to sit around and let kids die then what do we need cops for?
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 26, 2022, 01:37:26 PM
“ A witness who lived across the street from the elementary school said onlookers begged officers outside the school to do something as gunfire rang out inside the building.”
That is some of the schiff I've been reading about.
That is why I'm angry.
:grrr:
Whatever happened TO SERVE AND PROTECT.
Oh wait. The sick fuck had firearms. No wonder.
Post by: ren on May 26, 2022, 02:41:02 PM
Post by: robtmc on May 26, 2022, 03:16:21 PM
Um... I think you got lost on the way to Moms Demand Action forum.I'd say "us" and "we" is the semi-official HPD stand........
Post by: macsak on May 26, 2022, 03:30:34 PM
Post by: Jl808 on May 26, 2022, 05:04:11 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/26/shock-dps-reveals-uvalde-shooter-entered-thru-unlocked-door-no-school-police-officer/
Instead, police subdue parents who wanted to go in and begging them to do something.
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/05/26/witnesses-police-refused-to-enter-school-as-uvalde-shooter-rampaged-subdued-parents-begging-them-to-act-n570190
Were they just waiting to write a police report or something? WTF
Post by: robtmc on May 26, 2022, 05:31:52 PM
Uvalde shooter enters through an unlocked door. No resource officer confronts it.
Were they just waiting to write a police report or something? WTF
Been told to wait for maximum effect from the nutcase?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 26, 2022, 05:44:44 PM
1) There was an armed resource officer on campus who engaged the shooter before the shooter entered the school causing him to drop a bag. The resource officer was injured.
2) There was no resource officer on campus. The shooter entered the school through an unlocked door and encountered no resistance.
Other reports stated that in that school district there are only 4 resource officers for 8 schools. 50/50 chance of an officer being there that day.
Next we'll be told David Hogg was on the scene, too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/there-was-no-resource-officer-at-texas-elementary-school-according-to-new-reports/vi-AAXM2Nb
Post by: bass monkey on May 26, 2022, 06:15:28 PM
Interesting that US marshes were on scene so quickly.
Do they over ride jurisdiction of local/ County police departments?
Post by: hvybarrels on May 26, 2022, 08:21:49 PM
(https://imgcache1.thepostmillennial.com/content/images/2022/05/uvalde-police.jpg)
Post by: RSN172 on May 26, 2022, 08:41:56 PM
Yet, soft targets exist. Maybe they need to put up a GUN FREE ZONE sign in letters at least 18" high.
Post by: aaronc5362 on May 27, 2022, 12:41:27 AM
Just read an article today, it was indeed "a perfect rifle for everybody" by Daniel defense. And in light of this event, DD pulled out or was no longer invited to the NRA convention this weekend.
Yup, I read both "DD decided not to attend" and "was no longer invited" so idk which is true.
That aint no cheap gun. Seems like he was pro 2a who just snapped. I seem some people out of nowhere just snap and lose their shit. I only watched a few interviews of the neighbors and grandpa talk bout this kid. Seems he was bullied. Didnt know he liked wearing dresses until I saw someone post here. Wasn't the kids who did columbine was also bullied? I don't quite remember.
I'm not at all defending this kid. He shot innocent people who prob had nothing to do with his life and problems. But if he went after his possible bullies and just them.... Then. ... *shrugs*
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 27, 2022, 06:32:02 AM
I'm not at all defending this kid. He shot innocent people who prob had nothing to do with his life and problems.
Yep. This is it in a nutshell.
But people will only see the gun. The gun killed all those people. And our stupid POTUS even mentioned it when he went on air nationwide to address the incident.
Instead of offering words of healing and trying to keep our nation together, the old buffoon chooses to make the incident political.
He divided the nation just at the critical moment where we all needed words of peace and solidarity.
What an asshat. Let's Go Brandon. Forever and ever. Amen.
Post by: Jl808 on May 27, 2022, 07:52:03 AM
https://youtu.be/mMSjovwJY5c
Post by: drck1000 on May 27, 2022, 08:20:42 AM
Race baiting at its finest
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 27, 2022, 08:52:40 AM
I agree, this one feels a little different but I think holding strong is the wrong answer, I think holding strong is going to get us crucified. We can stand our ground chanting about constitutional rights but I think this makes us seem out of touch. We stonewall against further gun control laws but do so without providing any real systemic alternative solution. We even resist non-gun control ideas.
We support the constitutional right because that's exactly what it is. The only people who view the pro2a people as "out of touch" are anti 2a people and people who know nothing about the constitution.
And any action for gun control that the DNC submits is most of the time a violation of this.
Alternative solution, instead of sending $40 billion to Ukraine, how about use that $ for teams of armed guards at every school. Because just 1 isn't enough to watch an entire school. Let teachers and staff carry as they please so they can protect the flock.
We protect our law makers with teams of armed people, casinos, cash delivery, but schools are a no. Instead lets place a sign that reads "gun free zone".
Post by: aieahound on May 27, 2022, 10:38:43 AM
Do you folks see Obama’s tweet? I saw it via second hand “push”. Good to see that even liberals are “wtf? Really?”
Race baiting at its finest
This one ?
Barack Obama
@BarackObama
As we grieve the children of Uvalde today, we should take time to recognize that two years have passed since the murder of George Floyd under the knee of a police officer. His killing stays with us all to this day, especially those who loved him.
10:08 AM · May 25, 2022
Read the full conversation on Twitter”
“ Florida Republican Vice Chairman Christian Ziegler blasted Obama for being insensitive.
“Quickest, weirdest and most insensitive Tweet Pivot I have seen,” Ziegler tweeted. “Obama turned the page on the children of Uvalde and moved the attention to George Floyd in less then 280 characters. I mean… couldn’t he have separated the two into 2 Tweets and waited 2 mins between both posts?””
Or the one below ?
Or the one where he blames Republicans for all the tragedy.
Post by: drck1000 on May 27, 2022, 11:01:57 AM
This one ?The former
SNIP
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 27, 2022, 11:47:38 AM
I don't know if the teacher admits it or if this is just a deduction, but I'd bet money a teacher may want the door to be open as a matter of convenience for anyone taking a smoke break or returning from lunch so they don't have to walk around the school from the parking lot to enter the building. This all happened around lunchtime, so that's a possibility.
This was also the last school day before Summer Break, so maybe someone was carrying stuff between their car and the building.
Whatever the reason, if the report is true, the school will now be blamed -- even though the shooter could have probably entered though the front door. That open door just made his surprise entrance more convenient.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 27, 2022, 12:40:39 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 27, 2022, 12:58:41 PM
We support the constitutional right because that's exactly what it is. The only people who view the pro2a people as "out of touch" are anti 2a people and people who know nothing about the constitution.
And any action for gun control that the DNC submits is most of the time a violation of this.
Alternative solution, instead of sending $40 billion to Ukraine, how about use that $ for teams of armed guards at every school. Because just 1 isn't enough to watch an entire school. Let teachers and staff carry as they please so they can protect the flock.
We protect our law makers with teams of armed people, casinos, cash delivery, but schools are a no. Instead lets place a sign that reads "gun free zone".
Great post. :shaka:
I also agree that schools should have armed, trained, and vetted personnel that will protect the school. Also if teachers and staff are willing to be trained and want to CCW, then they should be allowed to do so.
Unfortunately it seems to me that most people in the democrat majority school system wants guns done away with 100%. They erroneously think that if guns are no longer in existence then they, the children, and the world will be safe.
This couldn't be further from the truth. In a "gun-less" society, only the criminally minded will have guns. And if not, then machetes, hatchets, knives, clubs, pipe bombs, trucks, chemicals, and arson are just a few of the endless things an evil person can do or use to take lives.
Guns are tools, and as much as they can take lives, they can also save lives.
It's funny. As far back as I can remember, there is always something about people or law enforcement re-calling things about these nut-jobs that would draw alarms but nothing is or was done about it. And the same thing happened with these two recent incidents. There is no way one can tell what a nut-job will do or when a nut-job will crack.
Situations like these require fighting fire with fire. The nut-jobs show no remorse in what they do. When they commit their evil act, they must be eliminated with extreme prejudice.
Plain and simple. Going the Kumbaya route is not going to cut it.
Post by: drck1000 on May 27, 2022, 01:16:26 PM
Great post. :shaka:Was chatting about that with a shooting buddy last night, incidentally as I was loading up some 6.5. . .
I also agree that schools should have armed, trained, and vetted personnel that will protect the school. Also if teachers and staff are willing to be trained and want to CCW, then they should be allowed to do so.
Unfortunately it seems to me that most people in the democrat majority school system wants guns done away with 100%. They erroneously think that if guns are no longer in existence then they, the children, and the world will be safe.
This couldn't be further from the truth. In a "gun-less" society, only the criminally minded will have guns. And if not, then machetes, hatchets, knives, clubs, pipe bombs, trucks, chemicals, and arson are just a few of the endless things an evil person can do or use to take lives.
Guns are tools, and as much as they can take lives, they can also save lives.
It's funny. As far back as I can remember, there is always something about people or law enforcement re-calling things about these nut-jobs that would draw alarms but nothing is or was done about it. And the same thing happened with these two recent incidents. There is no way one can tell what a nut-job will do or when a nut-job will crack.
Situations like these require fighting fire with fire. The nut-jobs show no remorse in what they do. When they commit their evil act, they must be eliminated with extreme prejudice.
Plain and simple. Going the Kumbaya route is not going to cut it.
I think all that is "needed" is the veil of defense. Make it known that schools, or other institutions, have plain clothes staff, security, etc on site. Don't NEED to be armed, but of course preferred. Sort of like how even broken CCTV cameras can deter. I've seen many malls in Asia that have "armed guards" that have either empty holsters, or guns that were obviously non-functional. In some areas of the PI, those "armed guards" were apparently quite effective as deterrent, or at least "look elsewhere". Best to have examples of "armed, trained, and vetted personnel that will protect the school" of course, but just need to make the target "less soft".
Have to combat the principled Karens that "my child needs a safe place, without guns" or the "I don't want my child anywhere they need guns". But eh, you want you kid to be safe, no?
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 27, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
Was chatting about that with a shooting buddy last night, incidentally as I was loading up some 6.5. . .
I think all that is "needed" is the veil of defense. Make it known that schools, or other institutions, have plain clothes staff, security, etc on site. Don't NEED to be armed, but of course preferred. Sort of like how even broken CCTV cameras can deter. I've seen many malls in Asia that have "armed guards" that have either empty holsters, or guns that were obviously non-functional. In some areas of the PI, those "armed guards" were apparently quite effective as deterrent, or at least "look elsewhere". Best to have examples of "armed, trained, and vetted personnel that will protect the school" of course, but just need to make the target "less soft".
Have to combat the principled Karens that "my child needs a safe place, without guns" or the "I don't want my child anywhere they need guns". But eh, you want you kid to be safe, no?
I got a friend who brought home a wife from PI and said the golf courses have guards with machine guns. Another friend said the malls have guards with sub machine guns too.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 27, 2022, 01:24:25 PM
It's funny. As far back as I can remember, there is always something about people or law enforcement re-calling things about these nut-jobs that would draw alarms but nothing is or was done about it. And the same thing happened with these two recent incidents. There is no way one can tell what a nut-job will do or when a nut-job will crack.
I cannot confirm this but Dana Loesch posted that the shooter threatened others to fight and shot at others with a BB gun. So shooting someone with a BB gun alone should have been some kind of charge. But maybe done under the age of 18, so it's not on his record, or in a sealed juvi record.
His mom finally released statement, "he had his reasons for doing what he did. Please don't judge him". Here is the problem with our society. The "he was a good kid" mentality.
Post by: drck1000 on May 27, 2022, 01:33:27 PM
I got a friend who brought home a wife from PI and said the golf courses have guards with machine guns. Another friend said the malls have guards with sub machine guns too.Yup. That's what I saw when I was there last. Both in Makati/Manila, and "outlying" areas. My company was contracting work there and they took us to show one of their projects as a posh course in Tagaytay. SUPER nice and out in the middle of nowhere, but some nice guns. Did they work? Maybe, but I wouldn't have messed with them.
Some mall guards, if you look close, have empty holsters. But you can't tell until you get close. Many are essentially bus boys for many of the smaller restaurants, coffee shops, etc.
They also have chicks in bikini's as caddies, but I digress. . . ;D
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 27, 2022, 02:12:52 PM
Because, Government knows how to do one thing right: f#ck sh!t up. :wacko: In THEORY, this country would have a fraction of the problems we experience if the solutions they dreamed up were actually implemented and managed as they should be.
https://youtu.be/kUgG5ewGSoA
Post by: aieahound on May 27, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
“ The agents from Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrived at some point between 12 and 12:10 p.m., according to the officials — far earlier than previously known. But they did not breach the adjoining classrooms of the school where the gunman had locked himself in until a little before 1 p.m. Members of the federal tactical team killed the gunman.
The officials said that members of the Uvalde Police Department kept the federal agents from going in sooner.”
…
“ The federal officers had driven up from the Mexican border, one official said. The official said it was not clear to the federal agents why their team was needed and why the local SWAT team did not respond.”
Post by: macsak on May 27, 2022, 04:33:41 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 27, 2022, 05:15:39 PM
Synopsis.
Time is of the essence.
Lone officer goes in if no one around.
It there are 2 and 1 goes down, remaining officer goes in alone.
Police expectes to put others lives ahead of their own.
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Post by: bass monkey on May 27, 2022, 08:02:11 PM
1 Border agent who entered just sat down for a haircut and got a text from his wife who's a teacher there and whos daughter attends the school. He grabbed his barbers shotgun and rushed over. He was able to get his daughter out and others.
Sounds like more of the have/ have not.
Off duty CPB officer able to rush to the scene, take command, create a plan with LEO on scene & sweep the building for his daughter& wife.
Parents willing to enter & look for their kids detained by officers standing around for an hour.
I forgot, they are highly trained & the only ones that should be allowed firearms.
I wonder how many other students were officers kids or stayed home on the last day of school.
Post by: dafrtknocker on May 27, 2022, 08:18:50 PM
The Timeline with more Questions!
https://canncon.substack.com/p/what-really-happened-in-uvalde?s=r
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 27, 2022, 10:59:51 PM
We support the constitutional right because that's exactly what it is. The only people who view the pro2a people as "out of touch" are anti 2a people and people who know nothing about the constitution.
I would argue that is a false dichotomy. Regardless, in the end we are a democracy and if democrats get enough votes the 2nd amendment can be modified or removed so we have to be concerned with how people view us.
Quote
And any action for gun control that the DNC submits is most of the time a violation of this.
I would agree that this is often, but not always, correct.
Quote
Alternative solution, instead of sending $40 billion to Ukraine, how about use that $ for teams of armed guards at every school. Because just 1 isn't enough to watch an entire school. Let teachers and staff carry as they please so they can protect the flock.
I am not against armed guards in school but realistically it isn't a solution to this particular problem. In the columbine shooting there was an armed officer on campus, it didn't stop the shooters. Might stop or dissuade a a few killers but I don't think it would stop that many, not when these guys are so often ready to die and have time to plan. Logistically it is a difficult response but arguably doable with enough time and money. The bigger problem is that this is mostly a reactionary measure to a mass killer, not a proactive measure.
Post by: drck1000 on May 28, 2022, 01:37:38 PM
Post by: oldfart on May 28, 2022, 02:10:35 PM
Interesting to see so many "experts" now having to retract their statements after more information on timeline release from THOSE WHO WERE THERE. . . Including a couple of local "subject matter experts" who teach such tactics, but A) never had to execute and B) were not there. I have no such specialized training, nor was I there. However, I do not rush to convey my "knowledge" right after an event, when details are still emerging, talking down on others who shared their opinions. . .....
You talking about the politicians offering their "solutions"?
Lol
Post by: drck1000 on May 28, 2022, 02:12:25 PM
....No, but I guess that could apply too. . . as well as those "talking heads"
You talking about the politicians offering their "solutions"?
Lol
Plus those commenting on "common sense gun control", who don't even know what that means. . .
Post by: aletheuo137 on May 28, 2022, 02:23:54 PM
No, but I guess that could apply too. . . as well as those "talking heads"Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one!
Plus those commenting on "common sense gun control", who don't even know what that means. . .
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Post by: drck1000 on May 28, 2022, 02:52:57 PM
Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one!Some have more than one. Or at least gives the appearance of such with the amount of BS that they spew.
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Post by: groveler on May 28, 2022, 03:07:26 PM
Good discussion, but you might want to at least start listening at mark 20:17 where they bring up the ATF 4473 and how hit-or-miss background checks are.What drives me nuts is this concept that the government can fix anything.
Because, Government knows how to do one thing right: f#ck sh!t up. :wacko: In THEORY, this country would have a fraction of the problems we experience if the solutions they dreamed up were actually implemented and managed as they should be.
https://youtu.be/kUgG5ewGSoA
or do anything to make life better.
It can't and even if it could it would not.
It is a zero sum game, if Democrats win everyone else loses.
I just tossed that in as every one here expects that from me.
What is necessary is to make everyone responsible for their actions.
And make sure they understand that.
Family is the glue that holds society together - not government.
All these shooting tragedies are primarily due to kids with just a Mom or grandma,
and they can't/won't admit they have a nutcase kid.
and thanks to the ACLU, they can't do anything about it.
Take us back to the 50's, Divorce was nasty. Shacking up for lengthy times was bad,
and chase down dad's for child support.
Dad paying for pussy he isn't getting will stick around.
A bad family is better than no family, statistically speaking.
:love:
Post by: bass monkey on May 28, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Interesting to see so many "experts" now having to retract their statements after more information on timeline release from THOSE WHO WERE THERE. . . Including a couple of local "subject matter experts" who teach such tactics, but A) never had to execute and B) were not there. I have no such specialized training, nor was I there. However, I do not rush to convey my "knowledge" right after an event, when details are still emerging, talking down on others who shared their opinions. . .
Sorry if it was me, haven't been keeping up to much
Post by: drck1000 on May 28, 2022, 07:37:00 PM
Nah. No one on this board… but couple of people I do know personally.
Sorry if it was me, haven't been keeping up to much
Post by: hvybarrels on May 29, 2022, 08:47:13 AM
Quote
Plus those commenting on "common sense gun control", who don't even know what that means. . ."high-power"
Post by: drck1000 on May 29, 2022, 09:40:19 AM
"high-power"Ya. Can tell who parrot/regurg things. Some are really good friends and ignorant about guns. They are afraid and don’t want anything to do with them. Got it, but learn before you condemn.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 29, 2022, 11:52:24 PM
Good discussion, but you might want to at least start listening at mark 20:17 where they bring up the ATF 4473 and how hit-or-miss background checks are.
Because, Government knows how to do one thing right: f#ck sh!t up. :wacko: In THEORY, this country would have a fraction of the problems we experience if the solutions they dreamed up were actually implemented and managed as they should be.
I talk to a guy on facebook who always points out how problematic the NCIC system is because of failures to share information. He definitely isn't a gun rights type of guy but he makes a very good point, talking about background checks is pointless when our background system is full of holes.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 30, 2022, 02:55:16 PM
I talk to a guy on facebook who always points out how problematic the NCIC system is because of failures to share information. He definitely isn't a gun rights type of guy but he makes a very good point, talking about background checks is pointless when our background system is full of holes.
This "point" was made in the Congressional hearings headed by VP Joe Biden after Sandy Hook. Pres Obama appointed Biden to head up the effort to find workable solutions to prevent school shootings. One of the glaring problems we find is the lack of federal mandates requiring states to report mental health info that could be used to deny firearm purchases. Of the states that voluntarily forward that info to the FBI, they are on average a year or more behind in their reporting due to manpower limits.
Then there's the problem of juvenile vs. adult mental health records. It's far more difficult to report on juveniles, especially if court records are sealed by the judge.
Basically, nothing that resembled a real solution for any actual problem came out of Biden's quest. This Wikipedia article lists what Executive Actions Obama took (not Executive Orders), and what actions were recommended that Congress take:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_after_the_Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
Those were mostly "We have to do SOMETHING!" actions. No more effective at stopping mass shootings in schools than the "Thoughts and prayers" the Left regularly makes fun of.
The problem of reporting mental health info to NICS/FBI has yet to be fixed, even with the FixNICS efforts being supported by the public.
Sandy Hook was in Dec 2012 -- almost 10 years ago. How long does it take for something the government totally controls to be fixed?
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 30, 2022, 03:03:14 PM
This is why u oppose bills even though they dont apply to u.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on May 30, 2022, 03:06:37 PM
I talk to a guy on facebook who always points out how problematic the NCIC system is because of failures to share information. He definitely isn't a gun rights type of guy but he makes a very good point, talking about background checks is pointless when our background system is full of holes.Both NY market and Ulvade shooter both passed NCIC and any mental health reporting checks that the left would want.
So the answer is simple, teams of armed staff/guards in schools
Or maybe anti 2a orgs donate money to put into more staff for the NCIC system instead of politicians pockets would be a good step.
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Post by: groveler on May 30, 2022, 03:58:21 PM
This "point" was made in the Congressional hearings headed by VP Joe Biden after Sandy Hook. Pres Obama appointed Biden to head up the effort to find workable solutions to prevent school shootings. One of the glaring problems we find is the lack of federal mandates requiring states to report mental health info that could be used to deny firearm purchases. Of the states that voluntarily forward that info to the FBI, they are on average a year or more behind in their reporting due to manpower limits.As I have said repeatedly government can't fix shit.
Then there's the problem of juvenile vs. adult mental health records. It's far more difficult to report on juveniles, especially if court records are sealed by the judge.
Basically, nothing that resembled a real solution for any actual problem came out of Biden's quest. This Wikipedia article lists what Executive Actions Obama took (not Executive Orders), and what actions were recommended that Congress take:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_after_the_Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
Those were mostly "We have to do SOMETHING!" actions. No more effective at stopping mass shootings in schools than the "Thoughts and prayers" the Left regularly makes fun of.
The problem of reporting mental health info to NICS/FBI has yet to be fixed, even with the FixNICS efforts being supported by the public.
Sandy Hook was in Dec 2012 -- almost 10 years ago. How long does it take for something the government totally controls to be fixed?
They are the problem.
Ohana is how to deal with problems.
like these nutcases.
:love:
Post by: aletheuo137 on May 30, 2022, 04:33:03 PM
https://rumble.com/v16qrgr-this-is-the-last-thing-youll-see...-florida-sheriff-issues-warning-to-schoo.html
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Post by: ren on May 30, 2022, 04:38:49 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 30, 2022, 05:12:18 PM
https://www.aol.com/news/handgun-freeze-key-feature-canadas-225233601-000914704.html (https://www.aol.com/news/handgun-freeze-key-feature-canadas-225233601-000914704.html)Its like we told the fudds, it isnt about "assault rifles".
"I support the 2a, but..."
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Post by: aletheuo137 on May 31, 2022, 08:23:55 AM
https://www.theblaze.com/off-duty-border-patrol-borrows-gun
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Post by: changemyoil66 on May 31, 2022, 11:49:47 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 31, 2022, 02:03:20 PM
Shooters grandma (who he tried to kill), worked at the school.
This is interesting information. Would be interesting to interview her as to conversations and whatnot they both had that would lead to why he targeted the school. Also if she had suspicions and concerns about his behavior and if she was going to act upon them or ignore them.
But I read the poor woman was shot in the face.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 31, 2022, 05:23:26 PM
Post by: RifleArts on May 31, 2022, 07:20:27 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on May 31, 2022, 07:53:19 PM
Just an observation here, but has anyone else noticed the all of a sudden increase in gun reported incidents on the news lately? Especially here in HI. Just saw on the news again tonight some shooting on Tantalus and Kailua. Tantalus vehicle in the incident, no front plates just random firing in the air. Interesting...
The conspiracy theorist in me is telling me it's all part of the demokrats plan.
Get America emotional about the gun tragedies. Ban guns. Disarm the populace. Save our children. Republicans bad. biden good. kamala better. Oh by the way, the 2022 mid-term elections is this year. Hmmmmmm..... ::)
It's easier to control the sheep when they are disarmed and so poor from inflation, gas prices, and supply shortages.
But to do that, they need to keep their comrades in office.
All part of the plan.......
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 02, 2022, 08:56:27 AM
Kid had a SBR
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 02, 2022, 12:27:52 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-arrest-16-old-tip-135536966.html
Kid had a SBR
If you're basing that on the photo slide show, then "No".
The person putting the slide show together stole that image from an ATF article:
https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2020/07/21/tsa-catches-artfully-concealed-assault-rifle-ammunition-checked-bag
Nowhere in the reports of this arrest were an SBR or AR pistol mentioned. They only said he had "parts" of an "assault rifle" and for "explosives".
Plus, that looks more like an AR pistol, not a rifle (no stock).
Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.
(https://i.imgur.com/oKKhrV0.png)
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 02, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
If you're basing that on the photo slide show, then "No".
The person putting the slide show together stole that image from an ATF article:
https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2020/07/21/tsa-catches-artfully-concealed-assault-rifle-ammunition-checked-bag
Nowhere in the reports of this arrest were an SBR or AR pistol mentioned. They only said he had "parts" of an "assault rifle" and for "explosives".
Plus, that looks more like an AR pistol, not a rifle (no stock).
Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.
(https://i.imgur.com/oKKhrV0.png)
So the media was fake news and tricked me. Thanks sensei, your google-fu is strong.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 02, 2022, 02:19:50 PM
So the media was fake news and tricked me. Thanks sensei, your google-fu is strong.
https://youtu.be/qPJDPSUevt4
Post by: hvybarrels on June 02, 2022, 08:20:18 PM
https://palexander.substack.com/p/yes-ssris-covid-lockdowns-isolation?s=r
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff75ea854-d31b-48fc-b3b4-acaab945fe66_1920x1020.png)
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 03, 2022, 06:35:35 AM
These wolves are pathetic, out of shape, old, and ugly. Oh, I forgot stupid. Yeah, they're stupid.
But wolves just the same.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 04, 2022, 07:14:49 AM
CeY24nrAHyp/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Post by: macsak on June 04, 2022, 07:19:00 AM
CeY24nrAHyp/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 04, 2022, 10:59:36 AM
Something like:
Post by: aletheuo137 on June 04, 2022, 11:51:54 AM
focus
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220604/7c0cca4fdde7f06cba4e903431ecf3fc.jpg) "Ford Focus"Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 04, 2022, 11:57:22 AM
"Bofus?"
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 06, 2022, 06:57:26 AM
Both NY market and Ulvade shooter both passed NCIC and any mental health reporting checks that the left would want.
So the answer is simple, teams of armed staff/guards in schools
Or maybe anti 2a orgs donate money to put into more staff for the NCIC system instead of politicians pockets would be a good step.
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Armed guard simply aren't a very realistic answer. The cost alone makes it a nonstarter. Conservatives aren't exactly known for giving teachers big pay raises or raising taxes so I don't think we would see such a funding measure pass from our side. It ends up being all talk.
Even then it is a reactionary measure, not so much a preventative one. We can't simply be reactionary to this problem.
There have been instances where failures of the NCIC system has resulted in people not being flagged when they should be flagged. That's simply unacceptable. It's not always the feds fault either if I understand correctly but failure of local departments to provide and update information in the system.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 06, 2022, 12:56:39 PM
Armed guard simply aren't a very realistic answer. The cost alone makes it a nonstarter. Conservatives aren't exactly known for giving teachers big pay raises or raising taxes so I don't think we would see such a funding measure pass from our side. It ends up being all talk.
Even then it is a reactionary measure, not so much a preventative one. We can't simply be reactionary to this problem.
There have been instances where failures of the NCIC system has resulted in people not being flagged when they should be flagged. That's simply unacceptable. It's not always the feds fault either if I understand correctly but failure of local departments to provide and update information in the system.
Schools are notorious for wasting funding, whether it's for facilities, supplies, faculty or sports, they tend to find things that are not essentials to spend "new money" on while ignoring the deficiencies they already deal with.
There are plenty of retired and former police and military with firearms training and skills who'd be willing to work on school campuses. The hours would be regular, and the vacation time during Winter and Summer breaks would be a plus, too. From my experience, schools already have extra security during football and basketball games, so if they can afford that, they can afford full time security.
One security worker per school is also not enough. They need to have enough to cover the campus as well as provide coverage when someone needs to be home or on vacation. If there's an incident, they need backup, so some overlap during morning, lunch and afternoon times when lots of people are coming and going would be needed.
This is one reason faculty -- teachers, janitors, admin staff -- should be permitted to carry. Security can't be everywhere at once, and teachers can be posted at entrances and exits when school opens and lets out. Give teachers who wish to carry the authority to do so.
Pretending the only real solution is too hard or expensive tells me you haven't really thought this through.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 06, 2022, 02:03:50 PM
Schools are notorious for wasting funding, whether it's for facilities, supplies, faculty or sports, they tend to find things that are not essentials to spend "new money" on while ignoring the deficiencies they already deal with.
There are plenty of retired and former police and military with firearms training and skills who'd be willing to work on school campuses. The hours would be regular, and the vacation time during Winter and Summer breaks would be a plus, too. From my experience, schools already have extra security during football and basketball games, so if they can afford that, they can afford full time security.
One security worker per school is also not enough. They need to have enough to cover the campus as well as provide coverage when someone needs to be home or on vacation. If there's an incident, they need backup, so some overlap during morning, lunch and afternoon times when lots of people are coming and going would be needed.
This is one reason faculty -- teachers, janitors, admin staff -- should be permitted to carry. Security can't be everywhere at once, and teachers can be posted at entrances and exits when school opens and lets out. Give teachers who wish to carry the authority to do so.
Pretending the only real solution is too hard or expensive tells me you haven't really thought this through.
It's free to arm existing staff.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 06, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
It's free to arm existing staff.There's the training. To reduce liability and ensure better safety, I'm sure training will be required. The school ought to pay for that. If they require off-body storage of guns, the school would need to provide secure storage that any authorized faculty member could open.
That assumes, of course, that existing staff are inclined to be armed. Nobody is going to force any faculty member to be armed.
I can't imagine that ever flying in HI. CCW permits issued for teachers? :rofl:
Post by: ren on June 06, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
Post by: oldfart on June 06, 2022, 05:29:09 PM
people of Hawaii are sheep. We act and vote like sheep....
Who you calling "we".??
I identify as a sheepdog, if anything.
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 06, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Too bad. Giving custodial, admin, and teachers the option of arming themselves to protect the children is a good idea in my book. But I also believe in vetting and training. Also dedicated security like mentioned earlier, retired LE, Military, etc.
Just as there are bad cops and bad security personnel, nothing is 100% perfect and will solve everything. There is no such thing in this world.
But in my opinion it is the closest one can get to protect the children.
I don't see any better solution than meeting fire with fire when it comes to protecting children and the people in the schools.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 06, 2022, 07:18:41 PM
Schools are notorious for wasting funding, whether it's for facilities, supplies, faculty or sports, they tend to find things that are not essentials to spend "new money" on while ignoring the deficiencies they already deal with.
There are plenty of retired and former police and military with firearms training and skills who'd be willing to work on school campuses. The hours would be regular, and the vacation time during Winter and Summer breaks would be a plus, too. From my experience, schools already have extra security during football and basketball games, so if they can afford that, they can afford full time security.
One security worker per school is also not enough. They need to have enough to cover the campus as well as provide coverage when someone needs to be home or on vacation. If there's an incident, they need backup, so some overlap during morning, lunch and afternoon times when lots of people are coming and going would be needed.
This is one reason faculty -- teachers, janitors, admin staff -- should be permitted to carry. Security can't be everywhere at once, and teachers can be posted at entrances and exits when school opens and lets out. Give teachers who wish to carry the authority to do so.
Pretending the only real solution is too hard or expensive tells me you haven't really thought this through.
It's not a real solution, it is a bandaid. I am not against it as a practice but I have no illusions it will solve the problem. It is an option, it may help a little but it isn't a solution. I know that because I have thought this through.
Even if it could be shown to reduce the number of shootings or the number of deaths there are still many other problems to overcome. As you point out training would be one such issue and that costs time and money. Then liability would be a huge issue. The instant someone steals a gun from a school and uses it to hurt someone lawsuits will be filed. Sure schools are known to waste money but realistically we aren't going to expect them to simply stop wasting so teachers can be armed.
To the rest of the developed world we look like animals, we need armed guards in our schools yet so very few other developed countries need that. Again, I am not against armed guards but that suggestion doesn't focus on the problem.
Post by: ren on June 06, 2022, 08:43:40 PM
It's not a real solution, it is a bandaid. I am not against it as a practice but I have no illusions it will solve the problem. It is an option, it may help a little but it isn't a solution. I know that because I have thought this through.
Even if it could be shown to reduce the number of shootings or the number of deaths there are still many other problems to overcome. As you point out training would be one such issue and that costs time and money. Then liability would be a huge issue. The instant someone steals a gun from a school and uses it to hurt someone lawsuits will be filed. Sure schools are known to waste money but realistically we aren't going to expect them to simply stop wasting so teachers can be armed.
To the rest of the developed world we look like animals, we need armed guards in our schools yet so very few other developed countries need that. Again, I am not against armed guards but that suggestion doesn't focus on the problem.
We have armed guards for currency but we dont for everyday children. How is the world looking at us as animals? ever heard of Rwanda?
Who thinks the solution of armed guards in a school a band aid? You? How did you quantify it as "little". You said it was an option but not a solution? How does that make any sense? What is your solution?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 06, 2022, 08:53:11 PM
We have armed guards for currency but we dont for everyday children. How is the world looking at us as animals? ever heard of Rwanda?
Who thinks the solution of armed guards in a school a band aid? You? How did you quantify it as "little". You said it was an option but not a solution? How does that make any sense? What is your solution?
He doesn't get it. He thinks the only real solution is one that can prevent the shooting from being planned or even thought about, much less executed.
Let's say we have a vaccine for a deadly disease. No vaccine is 100% effective. You still need the treatment available for when the disease presents itself.
Solutions are not going to be a singular remedy. It needs to address both the causes AND the ones that don't get prevented.
The real problem is, there are no solutions so far that address prevention which can effectively and consistently prevent shootings. That means, until those exist, we NEED to be able to stop them once they start. That's the only solution that saves lives at the moment.
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 06, 2022, 09:08:58 PM
Looks like it works.
Yet when it comes to children all they have between them and a nutjob killer is a stoopid sign that says "Entering Gun Free Zone".
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 07, 2022, 12:13:45 AM
We have armed guards for currency but we dont for everyday children. How is the world looking at us as animals? ever heard of Rwanda?
Who thinks the solution of armed guards in a school a band aid? You? How did you quantify it as "little". You said it was an option but not a solution? How does that make any sense? What is your solution?
How much good did the armed officer at Columbine do? Plus if I am going to shoot up a school I am just going to take the guard out first anyway. Shooters have even targeted cops before. Sure sometimes an armed guard might stop the shooter earlier and save a few more lives but that is still just a bandaid. Reducing the body count is good but preventing the shooting is so much better.
Comparing it to guarding money is not a good comparison. The scale is way different. Armed security can be one thing that can be done but it is not a comprehensive solution. It only helps with one facet of the problem.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 07, 2022, 12:20:56 AM
The politicians with their armed guards (and they have more than 10 rd mags) and the hopeless POTUS with his Secret service (and they also have more than 10 rd mags) and the casinos with their armed guards (yep, you guessed it) amongst others seem to think it works.
Looks like it works.
Yet when it comes to children all they have between them and a nutjob killer is a stoopid sign that says "Entering Gun Free Zone".
I really don't think the sign has anything to do with it. It's easy to reason that an elementary school is going to be filled with mostly children and some adults who are not that likely to be armed anyway. Not having the sign isn't going to change anything.
But let's think it through, imagine we raised taxes to get enough money to have an armed guard in every school full time. The target has not be hardened a little. What about all the other soft targets? Should every business have a full time armed guard? Every playground? Every library, etc.? If a shooter really gets scared away from schools because they now have armed guard then they will just pick another target. Therefore for this proposal to truly be effective we are talking about armed guards everywhere and all the costs that are associated with that including increased taxes and the price of goods.
Furthermore this has actually been studied. There have been armed officer in schools for years yet little to no evidence to show that they actually prevented school shootings. There were one or two instances where an armed guard stopped an active shooter but not enough to show statistical significance.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 07, 2022, 01:11:19 AM
Again, I am not against armed guards but that suggestion doesn't focus on the problem.
Let me guess. The problem is too much freedom and we need to hand more power over to the state to keep us safe.
(https://c.tenor.com/Q_Wn0djiumQAAAAd/bootlicker-boot.gif)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 07, 2022, 01:47:32 AM
Let me guess. The problem is too much freedom and we need to hand more power over to the state to keep us safe.
You completely avoided the problem I pointed
Post by: bass monkey on June 07, 2022, 06:30:28 AM
What about all the other soft targets? Should every business have a full time armed guard? Every playground? Every library, etc.? If a shooter really gets scared away from schools because they now have armed guard then they will just pick another target. Therefore for this proposal to truly be effective we are talking about armed guards everywhere
That's called constitutional carry
Post by: drck1000 on June 07, 2022, 06:33:27 AM
The politicians with their armed guards (and they have more than 10 rd mags) and the hopeless POTUS with his Secret service (and they also have more than 10 rd mags) and the casinos with their armed guards (yep, you guessed it) amongst others seem to think it works.Yeah, but thought experiments are more fun. Asking more questions than bringing up proposed solutions. . .
Looks like it works.
Yet when it comes to children all they have between them and a nutjob killer is a stoopid sign that says "Entering Gun Free Zone".
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 07, 2022, 07:28:30 AM
I really don't think the sign has anything to do with it. It's easy to reason that an elementary school is going to be filled with mostly children and some adults who are not that likely to be armed anyway. Not having the sign isn't going to change anything.
But let's think it through, imagine we raised taxes to get enough money to have an armed guard in every school full time. The target has not be hardened a little. What about all the other soft targets? Should every business have a full time armed guard? Every playground? Every library, etc.? If a shooter really gets scared away from schools because they now have armed guard then they will just pick another target. Therefore for this proposal to truly be effective we are talking about armed guards everywhere and all the costs that are associated with that including increased taxes and the price of goods.
Furthermore this has actually been studied. There have been armed officer in schools for years yet little to no evidence to show that they actually prevented school shootings. There were one or two instances where an armed guard stopped an active shooter but not enough to show statistical significance.
Look at all the tax money over the decades of years we have paid to "protect" our politicians and the POTUS. How many times have all these paid security people actually stopped a killer from killing these people?
I would say not enough to justify the total expenses. But still, we do it. Why? Because these people are that important?
What degree of importance do we place on these children and school personnel to be even thinking of the expense of armed security because the cost might be prohibitive?
We spare no expense when it comes to protecting these "important" people but haggle about costs when it comes to protect our children and workers in schools.
The politicians who are harking about more gun control measures yet maintain their security personnel are hypocrites.
edited to add: And yes, the sign has nothing to do with it. It will not change anything. I mentioned it to highlight the sheer insanity of it all. The only thing I agree with you on.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 07, 2022, 09:03:54 AM
Look at all the tax money over the decades of years we have paid to "protect" our politicians and the POTUS. How many times have all these paid security people actually stopped a killer from killing these people?
Or the money spend by anti 2a groups like MDA and ET. Imagine if they really cared, they would instead divert the funds to other options that would get pro 2a support. This itself shows that all they want to do is take the guns away.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 07, 2022, 09:28:03 AM
There have been armed officer in schools for years yet little to no evidence to show that they actually prevented school shootings. There were one or two instances where an armed guard stopped an active shooter but not enough to show statistical significance.
How many times do you hear about mass shooting events in inner city schools where they have metal detectors and armed guards? That seems statistically significant to me.
Do you really care about kids, or is this all just a long-winded sophistic attempt to shoehorn the conversation towards gun control?
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 07, 2022, 11:46:38 AM
How many times do you hear about mass shooting events in inner city schools where they have metal detectors and armed guards? That seems statistically significant to me.
Do you really care about kids, or is this all just a long-winded sophistic attempt to shoehorn the conversation towards gun control?
These schools had an issue with weapons being brought in. So they put up metal detectors and teams of security manning them. They didn't just put up a no weapons sign. In order to do this, they had to show there was a constant problem. Same schools also have lots of fighting, so teams of security are added. So a cause and effect thing going on. What we are asking is the school that doesnt have these issues to increase security as a preventative measure because no one knows where the next active shooter will strike.
Even though active shootings at schools dont happen often, it's odd how none happened in the hood. It's like the gunmen knew to stay away. Also I need to clarify that active shooters differ from gang related or 1 on 1 type gun involved shootings at schools. Or we can just ban guns from everyone that doesn't live in the hood.
Post by: ren on June 07, 2022, 11:51:07 AM
How many times do you hear about mass shooting events in inner city schools where they have metal detectors and armed guards? That seems statistically significant to me.
Do you really care about kids, or is this all just a long-winded sophistic attempt to shoehorn the conversation towards gun control?
it is. just like the gun show, no one was buying his sh1t
Post by: drck1000 on June 07, 2022, 01:22:41 PM
it is. just like the gun show, no one was buying his sh1tWhat about those that buy Osprey "just as good as Nightforce" scopes? ???
;D
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 07, 2022, 01:30:57 PM
What about those that buy Osprey "just as good as Nightforce" scopes? ???
;D
BURRRNNNNN
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 07, 2022, 02:00:48 PM
How much good did the armed officer at Columbine do? Plus if I am going to shoot up a school I am just going to take the guard out first anyway. Shooters have even targeted cops before. Sure sometimes an armed guard might stop the shooter earlier and save a few more lives but that is still just a bandaid. Reducing the body count is good but preventing the shooting is so much better.
Comparing it to guarding money is not a good comparison. The scale is way different. Armed security can be one thing that can be done but it is not a comprehensive solution. It only helps with one facet of the problem.
There was ONE guard on duty at Columbine, and another that answered her call for assistance from a nearby campus. Both fired on Harris, but failed to connect. Maybe they needed something better than a handgun to engage a target at 60+ yards? Harris entered the school, yet the security personnel remained outside.
This is the scenario we see happening over and over. Columbine, Parkland, and now Uvalde -- even with armed guards on site, they are reluctant to place the safety of children above their own lives.
Maybe we need a better screening process to find guards who aren't afraid to put themselves in jeopardy -- who react as we hope they would under fire. Maybe we could also spring for some top-quality body armor so they can survive a couple of direct hits and still remain in the fight.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 08, 2022, 11:24:43 PM
How many times do you hear about mass shooting events in inner city schools where they have metal detectors and armed guards? That seems statistically significant to me.
Do you really care about kids, or is this all just a long-winded sophistic attempt to shoehorn the conversation towards gun control?
Active shooters who target schools tend not to be inner city kids too. This me parallel the fact that wealthy people are more likely to commit suicide than poor people. These types of active shooters tend to be white males as well. There are definitely some other social factors at work here.
Of course I care about the kids. That's the same type of question people on the left are saying, accusing of caring about guns more than children. But what I'm doing is trying to balance everything to solve the problem at hand
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 08, 2022, 11:29:43 PM
There was ONE guard on duty at Columbine, and another that answered her call for assistance from a nearby campus. Both fired on Harris, but failed to connect. Maybe they needed something better than a handgun to engage a target at 60+ yards? Harris entered the school, yet the security personnel remained outside.
This is the scenario we see happening over and over. Columbine, Parkland, and now Uvalde -- even with armed guards on site, they are reluctant to place the safety of children above their own lives.
Maybe we need a better screening process to find guards who aren't afraid to put themselves in jeopardy -- who react as we hope they would under fire. Maybe we could also spring for some top-quality body armor so they can survive a couple of direct hits and still remain in the fight.
All fine suggestions. But it also illustrates the limitations of armed guards and why they are just one piece in a larger puzzle
Post by: hvybarrels on June 08, 2022, 11:45:40 PM
Active shooters who target schools tend not to be inner city kids too. This me parallel the fact that wealthy people are more likely to commit suicide than poor people. These types of active shooters tend to be white males as well. There are definitely some other social factors at work here.
Of course I care about the kids. That's the same type of question people on the left are saying, accusing of caring about guns more than children. But what I'm doing is trying to balance everything to solve the problem at hand
They tend not to? Or people intent on murder tend to go places with easier pickings?
The left likes to completely ignore gang violence where the vast majority of homicides take place because it doesn't fit their gun control agenda.
That's kinda racist.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 09, 2022, 11:42:55 AM
Active shooters who target schools tend not to be inner city kids too. This me parallel the fact that wealthy people are more likely to commit suicide than poor people. These types of active shooters tend to be white males as well. There are definitely some other social factors at work here.
Of course I care about the kids. That's the same type of question people on the left are saying, accusing of caring about guns more than children. But what I'm doing is trying to balance everything to solve the problem at hand
Let's say that by some ingenious and accurate scientific method, you're able to pinpoint the exact income amount, family make-up, racial ethnicity, geographic location, age, gender, grade point average, hair and eye color, number of hours spent playing violent video games, books read, YouTube videos watched, movies streamed, medications being taken and number of pets in the home.
With all that specific and correlated data at your disposal, what would that do for you? Are you then going to be able to identify the reasons mass shooters become mass shooters? Would you them be able to change the suspected critical variables to prevent it from ever happening? How would you go about using that data to prevent shootings? Would you EXPEL all students who meet some arbitrary threshold of those factors so they never get a chance to attend school? Would that stop someone from going to a school they don't attend (Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. seems to prove otherwise)?
Would you force anyone in that group to undergo psychiatric therapy to see if they are prone to violence? Would you place their entire household on a "No Firearms" watchlist so there are no firearms within easy reach?
Trying to classify mass shooters by this or that factor may be interesting or even instructive, but you still can't use those profiles to take action. All you can do is take each individual as they present evidence they are actually a threat. Where they land on the EEF scale of coincidental demographics has no bearing on what you can do legally. How are you even going to gather that information on every single person in order to create the group of probable threats?
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 09, 2022, 12:34:31 PM
Let's say that by some ingenious and accurate scientific method, you're able to pinpoint the exact income amount, family make-up, racial ethnicity, geographic location, age, gender, grade point average, hair and eye color, number of hours spent playing violent video games, books read, YouTube videos watched, movies streamed, medications being taken and number of pets in the home.
With all that specific and correlated data at your disposal, what would that do for you? Are you then going to be able to identify the reasons mass shooters become mass shooters? Would you them be able to change the suspected critical variables to prevent it from ever happening? How would you go about using that data to prevent shootings? Would you EXPEL all students who meet some arbitrary threshold of those factors so they never get a chance to attend school? Would that stop someone from going to a school they don't attend (Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. seems to prove otherwise)?
Would you force anyone in that group to undergo psychiatric therapy to see if they are prone to violence? Would you place their entire household on a "No Firearms" watchlist so there are no firearms within easy reach?
Trying to classify mass shooters by this or that factor may be interesting or even instructive, but you still can't use those profiles to take action. All you can do is take each individual as they present evidence they are actually a threat. Where they land on the EEF scale of coincidental demographics has no bearing on what you can do legally. How are you even going to gather that information on every single person in order to create the group of probable threats?
The MIT school shooter is Asian and used 2 handguns. 9mm and 22LR calibers. Prior to the Vegas shooter, this held as the highest death count and still is higher than the Ulvade shooting (32 vs. 21).
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 10, 2022, 12:03:20 AM
Let's say that by some ingenious and accurate scientific method, you're able to pinpoint the exact income amount, family make-up, racial ethnicity, geographic location, age, gender, grade point average, hair and eye color, number of hours spent playing violent video games, books read, YouTube videos watched, movies streamed, medications being taken and number of pets in the home.
With all that specific and correlated data at your disposal, what would that do for you? Are you then going to be able to identify the reasons mass shooters become mass shooters? Would you them be able to change the suspected critical variables to prevent it from ever happening? How would you go about using that data to prevent shootings? Would you EXPEL all students who meet some arbitrary threshold of those factors so they never get a chance to attend school? Would that stop someone from going to a school they don't attend (Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. seems to prove otherwise)?
Would you force anyone in that group to undergo psychiatric therapy to see if they are prone to violence? Would you place their entire household on a "No Firearms" watchlist so there are no firearms within easy reach?
Trying to classify mass shooters by this or that factor may be interesting or even instructive, but you still can't use those profiles to take action. All you can do is take each individual as they present evidence they are actually a threat. Where they land on the EEF scale of coincidental demographics has no bearing on what you can do legally. How are you even going to gather that information on every single person in order to create the group of probable threats?
I didn't say demographics was the key to solving the problem, I only pointed out demographics in response to the suggestion that inner city kids having guns must be a deterrent to active School shooters.
Furthermore demographics just help you to understand the problem better. Who are the people taking these actions, why are they taking these actions, how are they able to think these actions, etc etc
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 10, 2022, 12:05:46 AM
They tend not to? Or people intent on murder tend to go places with easier pickings?
The left likes to completely ignore gang violence where the vast majority of homicides take place because it doesn't fit their gun control agenda.
That's kinda racist.
Those really are two separate issues though.
I would say your claim that they ignore gang violence is wrong. The left wants to solve gang violence too.
Post by: groveler on June 10, 2022, 06:43:27 AM
Those really are two separate issues though."The left wants to solve gang violence too."
I would say your claim that they ignore gang violence is wrong. The left wants to solve gang violence too.
Bullschiff!
The "left" who are generally the more well off people in our society,
think they are immune to gang violence and it serves their interests.
"Laws for thee but not for me".
:wtf:
Post by: aletheuo137 on June 10, 2022, 07:08:11 AM
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: groveler on June 10, 2022, 08:21:59 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/f1b64557dfccec3696f0f85e7d162abf.jpg)IIRC the word "Sinister" is Latin for left handed.
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
>:D
Post by: hvybarrels on June 10, 2022, 08:30:20 AM
Those really are two separate issues though.
So "gun violence" doesn't matter if it's poor people doing the vast majority of the dying?
okay dude
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 10, 2022, 12:35:09 PM
Those really are two separate issues though.
I would say your claim that they ignore gang violence is wrong. The left wants to solve gang violence too.
Based on my decades of observation, the Left SAYS they want to, and will, solve all kinds of problems -- including crime -- but they rarely, if ever, do.
If they solved all those problems, what would they have left to run their campaign on? "Orange man bad?"
Nope. Drugs, crime, gangs, violence against the population, burglaries, theft, vagrancy, and high taxes. These are the diseases of the Democrat-controlled cities that never go away, because #1 they are very difficult to solve, and #2 the issues tend to attract voters, so the Dems NEED these problems to stay in power. How can you promise to solve gang violence if someone already solved it?
Instead, we get Dems pushing back against Republican solutions as racist or too expensive. Meanwhile, people continue to die.
Keep letting the law breakers out of jail, and this is the result. Take them off the streets, and you at least reduce the amount of crime, if not solve it completely.
As for gang violence, there's a fix for that: economic opportunity. Unless these Dem-run cities can help provide that, the gangs will remain "employment opportunities".
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 11, 2022, 03:01:41 AM
So "gun violence" doesn't matter if it's poor people doing the vast majority of the dying?
okay dude
Strawman.
People dying from opioid abuse and people dying from obesity are two separate issues. Just because you talk about one doesn't mean you don't care about the other.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 11, 2022, 03:03:33 AM
"The left wants to solve gang violence too."
Bullschiff!
The "left" who are generally the more well off people in our society,
think they are immune to gang violence and it serves their interests.
"Laws for thee but not for me".
:wtf:
They want to solve gang violence, just many of their ideas are bad at doing so.
Post by: Rocky on June 11, 2022, 08:55:10 AM
Even though active shootings at schools dont happen often, it's odd how none happened in the hood. It's like the gunmen knew to stay away.
Proof that ccw prevents gun violence and mass shootings ! :geekdanc:
Post by: hvybarrels on June 11, 2022, 09:52:06 AM
People dying from opioid abuse and people dying from obesity are two separate issues. Just because you talk about one doesn't mean you don't care about the other.
The only difference is that one type of gun violence is useful to your gun grabber agenda while the other is useful for getting rid of the rest of the constitution with a militarized police force and all-powerful “intelligence” agencies.
The reason why you don’t want to talk about both at the same time is that both your arguments undermine each other.
Out of control gang violence shows that we need the 2nd Amendment now more than ever and school shootings highlights the complete uselessness of intelligence agencies and militarized law enforcement for anything other than the harassment and intimidation of law abiding citizens.
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 11, 2022, 12:25:48 PM
Dozens(?) of armed LE standing around showing off their tactical gear and vests with parents pleading for them to go inside and confront the shooter. Again I wasn't there but it sure doesn't paint a good picture for those of us who wasn't there.
The excuses of the police chief when asked about the absence of a radio on him was just so lame. I cannot believe he expects us (or me at least) to think it made sense.
Were the LE scared? I bet they were and I don't blame them one bit. But courage is not the absence of fear. It is what you do in spite of that fear.
I keep thinking of that male teacher who got shot but survived the ordeal. He said: I will never forgive them (law enforcement). They were outside and had body armor. I was inside and I got shot. I had no body armor.
The LE of Ulvade had better sit down and re-assess their active shooter protocols. Maybe all of their protocols. And that police chief needs to step down and be replaced.
Post by: macsak on June 11, 2022, 01:15:21 PM
if there are injuries, or shooting is going on, you go in, even without backup
no questions, no hesitation
they had training this year, and every year
[quote auhthor=QUIETShooter link=topic=45914.msg424141#msg424141 date=1654986348]
I keep thinking about the Ulvade incident and I shake my head. I dunno. I'm not well versed in LE protocols but it just seems weird how everything panned out.
Dozens(?) of armed LE standing around showing off their tactical gear and vests with parents pleading for them to go inside and confront the shooter. Again I wasn't there but it sure doesn't paint a good picture for those of us who wasn't there.
The excuses of the police chief when asked about the absence of a radio on him was just so lame. I cannot believe he expects us (or me at least) to think it made sense.
Were the LE scared? I bet they were and I don't blame them one bit. But courage is not the absence of fear. It is what you do in spite of that fear.
I keep thinking of that male teacher who got shot but survived the ordeal. He said: I will never forgive them (law enforcement). They were outside and had body armor. I was inside and I got shot. I had no body armor.
The LE of Ulvade had better sit down and re-assess their active shooter protocols. Maybe all of their protocols. And that police chief needs to step down and be replaced.
[/quote]
Post by: bass monkey on June 11, 2022, 09:19:26 PM
I mean they were willing to rush the gun men inside but begged the gun men outside.
One was directly killing the kids while the other was (in) directly getting the kids killed.
Not sure if there were more parents then LEO there
Not sure who/if there were civilian firearms on scene in person or in vehicles.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 11, 2022, 09:45:20 PM
I was thinking, what's the difference between someone outside the school with a firearm & someone inside the school with a firearm.
I mean they were willing to rush the gun men inside but begged the gun men outside.
One was directly killing the kids while the other was (in) directly getting the kids killed.
Not sure if there were more parents then LEO there
Not sure who/if there were civilian firearms on scene in person or in vehicles.
I think (based on nothing but conjecture) that (1) the Cops have the authority to issue commands to the parents, and society has been conditioned to obey -- whereas the criminal with the gun had no such authority and was fair game; (2) there were more than one Cop outside holding the parents back compared to one gunman inside; (3) if the Cops tasered, cuffed and/or shot you, the parent, you'd have zero chance of helping your kid/s -- plus, if the Cops do decide to breach, they don't need to be occupied with a bunch of uncontrollable parents, too.
We assume those in authority have the training and equipment to better deal with a situation. It takes a real effort mentally to analyze the situation, understand the Cops are impotent, and decide to take action no matter what the Cops threaten you with. How many parents were actually willing to rush the school, or were they just acting out to get the Cops to do their jobs? Hard to know.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 12, 2022, 05:04:18 AM
I was thinking, what's the difference between someone outside the school with a firearm & someone inside the school with a firearm.
I mean they were willing to rush the gun men inside but begged the gun men outside.
One was directly killing the kids while the other was (in) directly getting the kids killed.
Not sure if there were more parents then LEO there
Not sure who/if there were civilian firearms on scene in person or in vehicles.
If a response was well orchestrated that would include things like a perimeter and command center. A group of parents, however heroic they may be, could present problems if they started running in so generally speaking I think cops are justified to have crowd control. It's tough though, emotions running super high, some poor cop has to tell a parent to stand back and wait while the parent has no idea if their kid is dead or dying.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 12, 2022, 05:11:51 AM
The only difference is that one type of gun violence is useful to your gun grabber agenda while the other is useful for getting rid of the rest of the constitution with a militarized police force and all-powerful “intelligence” agencies.
The reason why you don’t want to talk about both at the same time is that both your arguments undermine each other.
No they don't.
You are just pulling a whataboutism. Lefties have ideas about gun control they think will help with mass shootings and ideas they think will help with gang shootings. Saying what about gang violence completely ignores that. It is just a dihonest smear tactic against lefties. You can disagree with their beliefs on how to solve the problems but claiming they don't care about gang violence is just a lie.
And I am definitely not a lefty, I just don't accept dishonest arguments, even when they favor my side.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 12, 2022, 05:47:33 AM
They dont care about gang violence or the drug problem. What theyre doing or lack there of shows it. Actions speak louder than words.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: hvybarrels on June 12, 2022, 07:55:20 AM
No they don't.
You are just pulling a whataboutism. Lefties have ideas about gun control they think will help with mass shootings and ideas they think will help with gang shootings. Saying what about gang violence completely ignores that. It is just a dihonest smear tactic against lefties. You can disagree with their beliefs on how to solve the problems but claiming they don't care about gang violence is just a lie.
And I am definitely not a lefty, I just don't accept dishonest arguments, even when they favor my side.
But you are dishonest.
You're pretending to "help" us but it's very clear what your real agenda is. See "concern trolling"
All the left cares about is power and it will kill and destroy whatever is in its way to achieve it.
There is no middle ground.
Post by: robtmc on June 12, 2022, 08:10:21 AM
But you are dishonest.
You're pretending to "help" us but it's very clear what your real agenda is. See "concern trolling"
All the left cares about is power and it will kill and destroy whatever is in its way to achieve it.
There is no middle ground.
You have to laugh out loud at that "I am definitely not a lefty".
This clown has been pushing the HPD/statist angle for years now.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 13, 2022, 03:22:47 AM
But you are dishonest.
You're pretending to "help" us but it's very clear what your real agenda is. See "concern trolling"
All the left cares about is power and it will kill and destroy whatever is in its way to achieve it.
There is no middle ground.
I am not being dishonest. I truly believe the stubborn, do not give an inch, attitude is going to sink this ship. I am going to lose more gun rights through that avenue than I would through rational thought and discussion. The uncompromising stubborn emotional idealism of the far left exists in the far right as well and it is going to hurt our gun rights.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 13, 2022, 03:26:23 AM
Hmmmmmm....there is gang gun related problems? I havent been told this by the media yet, or things like keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.
They dont care about gang violence or the drug problem. What theyre doing or lack there of shows it. Actions speak louder than words.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
I don't know what you have been watching but I have seen numerous instances of the media covering gun violence and gun control as it relates to hang violence problems.
It may not get the national attention as often because the body counts are usually lower and they are usually criminal on criminal but there is most certainly coverage as well as legislative responses taken at local levels.
Post by: Rocky on June 13, 2022, 11:22:23 AM
I don't know what you have been watching but I have seen numerous instances of the media covering gun violence and gun control as it relates to hang violence problems.Please see WEEKLY weekend homicide stats of Chi-town, Philly, Baltimore etc... :(
It may not get the national attention as often because the body counts are usually lower :wacko: and they are usually criminal on criminal but there is most certainly coverage as well as legislative responses taken at local levels.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 13, 2022, 11:32:16 AM
I don't know what you have been watching but I have seen numerous instances of the media covering gun violence and gun control as it relates to hang violence problems.
It may not get the national attention as often because the body counts are usually lower and they are usually criminal on criminal but there is most certainly coverage as well as legislative responses taken at local levels.
Just the national news on the main TV channels 1003-1008. You know, the one that lots of Americans get their info from.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 13, 2022, 11:35:30 AM
I am not being dishonest. I truly believe the stubborn, do not give an inch, attitude is going to sink this ship. I am going to lose more gun rights through that avenue than I would through rational thought and discussion. The uncompromising stubborn emotional idealism of the far left exists in the far right as well and it is going to hurt our gun rights.
Would you lose the right to posses a handgun mag or rifle over 10 rds? Would you lose the ability to posses an AR15? How about body armor? If anything, you would lose the right to posses a P80 for now, which has passed HI law regardless of ones employment status. We are not stubborn. Look at it this way, so much has been taken away that many people are not willing to give any more.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 13, 2022, 03:35:03 PM
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/7/7/be4e11d77bbeb5d632a4122d833a8343facdad8f0f8e8ebaca7710256c9e89/raw.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.co%2Fimages%2F8bded650ac865bd977cc57a75964979d%2Fraw&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
Post by: ren on June 13, 2022, 03:40:38 PM
Post by: macsak on June 13, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
we have given up many inches...and most here are Asian...so not much to give up...
heads
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 14, 2022, 02:49:24 AM
Please see WEEKLY weekend homicide stats of Chi-town, Philly, Baltimore etc... :(
Body counts of individual shootings. You aren't seeing 20 innocent people dying in one gang shooting very often ( if ever)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 14, 2022, 02:53:31 AM
Would you lose the right to posses a handgun mag or rifle over 10 rds? Would you lose the ability to posses an AR15? How about body armor? If anything, you would lose the right to posses a P80 for now, which has passed HI law regardless of ones employment status. We are not stubborn. Look at it this way, so much has been taken away that many people are not willing to give any more.
There are a few thing I would be willing to give up based on the logic of where I would draw the limits of firearm rights (since it has to be drawn somewhere).
I would not give up ar-15s or higher capacity magazines or body armor. I would not give up the ability to manufacture your own firearm but maybe some regulations are appropriate here, I don't have set ideas on this one yet.
Post by: oldfart on June 14, 2022, 06:24:33 AM
It's the catch phrase that ensures revenue clicks.
In fact, any internet article that has mentions or displays a gun is going to generate revenue clicks.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 14, 2022, 08:33:46 AM
Body counts of individual shootings. You aren't seeing 20 innocent people dying in one gang shooting very often ( if ever)
This is the argument that I often get from the people who want to take your guns away. The immediate death count is more important than the annual. So 20 killings in 1 sitting is greater than 6,000 a year. Logic at it's finest.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 14, 2022, 08:36:28 AM
The media is labeling everything as a mass shooting.
It's the catch phrase that ensures revenue clicks.
In fact, any internet article that has mentions or displays a gun is going to generate revenue clicks.
This is why I often use the phrase "active shooting". Because mass is defined by FBI as 4 or more involved (includes gunman, so 3 other people involved). And typically a mass shooting, the purpose isn't to kill as many as possible, often it's a few individuals and there just happens to be others around. Example would be the shooting across the Blazdell a few weeks ago. The shooter was not targeting the 15 people standing around. Compare this to an active shooting at a school or business (uyesugi style) where the shooter shoots anyone they see.
Weird how our lawmakers didn't label the Blazdel shooting as a mass shooting.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 14, 2022, 11:47:51 AM
Quote
The worst mass shooting in recent recorded history took place in Kenya on April 3, 2015. On this dire day, 148 people
were killed in a terror attack committed in the name of the Somali Islamist group al-Shabab. The gruesome killing had
four gunmen target students and staff who self-identified as Christians. Victims were asked on the spot whether they
were Muslim or Christian. Depending on how they answered, they were killed in broad daylight or let go.
Why kill? The perpetrators said they were retaliating for acts of violence committed by Kenya’s security forces in the
country.
#2:
Quote
On December 16, 2014 scores of innocent students and staff at the Army Public School, which is run by the military in
northwestern Pakistan, were attacked and killed. Seven armed assailants shot 141 people to death, mostly children. It
was a horrific blood bath.
Why commit such an atrocity? This mass shooting was a heartless act done to get back at the Pakistani military for killing
Taliban fighters in a prior attack in the Khyber area and North Waziristan. Pakistan had previously been accused by many
world leaders of not dissuading the Taliban from acting within its borders. Attacks such as this one bring to light the inner
tensions that a country like Pakistan lives with, and how hard it can be to do the right thing.
#3:
Quote
ISIS claimed responsibility for this next horrendous event in France. Spanning two days from November 13 to 14, 2015,
assailants shot and used explosives that killed 130 people in Paris, and wounded 494 others. People in restaurants, a
concert hall, a sports stadium, and just on the sidewalk were the defenseless targets. The shooters attacked with assault
rifles, and as suicide bombers. In the end, a three-month national state of emergency was declared in France and security
laws were tightened. These included giving authorities more ability to block websites that promote terrorism, to carry out
searches without warrants, and to place suspicious people under house arrest.
Quote
In 2019, the US had the highest number of mass killings ever recorded in a single year in the country, with 41 events and 211
people killed.
Yep, 211 deaths caused in 41 separate events. Not exactly up there with the top 3 mass shootings, are they?
In fact, the US comes in at #6 with the Las Vegas shooting, #9 at the Orlando Night Club, #12 with the VA Tech shooting and #14 at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Since the list was compiled in 2020, obviously the recent Uvalde shooting isn't mentioned. Given the 21 fatalities reported, that would make the list -- tied with the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre in California in 1984.
The list spans almost 40 years starting in 1982, and it lists the top 51 worst shootings in the ENTIRE WORLD.
Making mass shootings into a uniquely United States epidemic is not only dishonest, it diverts attention away from other violence that could actually be prevented more easily than these rare events.
(https://i.imgur.com/fWHbKGd.png)
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-deadliest-mass-shootings-in-history.html
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 14, 2022, 12:12:41 PM
#1:
#2:
#3:
Yep, 211 deaths caused in 41 separate events. Not exactly up there with the top 3 mass shootings, are they?
In fact, the US comes in at #6 with the Las Vegas shooting, #9 at the Orlando Night Club, #12 with the VA Tech shooting and #14 at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Since the list was compiled in 2020, obviously the recent Uvalde shooting isn't mentioned. Given the 21 fatalities reported, that would make the list -- tied with the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre in California in 1984.
The list spans almost 40 years starting in 1982, and it lists the top 51 worst shootings in the ENTIRE WORLD.
Making mass shootings into a uniquely United States epidemic is not only dishonest, it diverts attention away from other violence that could actually be prevented more easily than these rare events.
(https://i.imgur.com/fWHbKGd.png)
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-deadliest-mass-shootings-in-history.html
Don't forget the 51 Christians killed 10 days ago in, I can't remember. I wanna say Somalia. It was at a church. And gun reform was done there prior to this. Guess they didn't have a Jack Wilson in the building
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 17, 2022, 05:04:22 AM
This is why I often use the phrase "active shooting". Because mass is defined by FBI as 4 or more involved (includes gunman, so 3 other people involved). And typically a mass shooting, the purpose isn't to kill as many as possible, often it's a few individuals and there just happens to be others around. Example would be the shooting across the Blazdell a few weeks ago. The shooter was not targeting the 15 people standing around. Compare this to an active shooting at a school or business (uyesugi style) where the shooter shoots anyone they see.
Weird how our lawmakers didn't label the Blazdel shooting as a mass shooting.
I saw one report talking about how we had 200 mass shootings this year and when I looked into the data one was in Hawaii, it was the shooting on the west side where a guy killed someone trying to rob him. 4 people were shot total so they called it a mass shooting but it was a gunfight between a robber and a normal citizen. 2 bad guys and 2 good guys. Only one bad guy died.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 17, 2022, 05:06:59 AM
This is the argument that I often get from the people who want to take your guns away. The immediate death count is more important than the annual. So 20 killings in 1 sitting is greater than 6,000 a year. Logic at it's finest.
I think you misunderstans.
That is not an argument for gun control of any type, that is merely an explanation of why some shootings get more attention than other shootings.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 17, 2022, 05:15:28 AM
#1:
#2:
#3:
Yep, 211 deaths caused in 41 separate events. Not exactly up there with the top 3 mass shootings, are they?
In fact, the US comes in at #6 with the Las Vegas shooting, #9 at the Orlando Night Club, #12 with the VA Tech shooting and #14 at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Since the list was compiled in 2020, obviously the recent Uvalde shooting isn't mentioned. Given the 21 fatalities reported, that would make the list -- tied with the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre in California in 1984.
The list spans almost 40 years starting in 1982, and it lists the top 51 worst shootings in the ENTIRE WORLD.
Making mass shootings into a uniquely United States epidemic is not only dishonest, it diverts attention away from other violence that could actually be prevented more easily than these rare events.
(https://i.imgur.com/fWHbKGd.png)
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-deadliest-mass-shootings-in-history.html
You are conflating two different issues though. Those top 3 you listed were terrorist attacks, very different than our problem with mass shootings the USA.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 17, 2022, 08:19:04 AM
I saw one report talking about how we had 200 mass shootings this year and when I looked into the data one was in Hawaii, it was the shooting on the west side where a guy killed someone trying to rob him. 4 people were shot total so they called it a mass shooting but it was a gunfight between a robber and a normal citizen. 2 bad guys and 2 good guys. Only one bad guy died.
The reports nationwide there are way more than 200 mass shootings annually. I mean a typical weekend in Chiraq probably has at least 4 (guesstimation). And I'm sure HI had more than 1 last year. you would have to look at all the shooting incidents and see if there are more than a total of 4 people involved.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 17, 2022, 08:20:10 AM
You are conflating two different issues though. Those top 3 you listed were terrorist attacks, very different than our problem with mass shootings the USA.
Goal post moving business may be back. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 17, 2022, 01:01:54 PM
Goal post moving business may be back. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah. We need to also stop conflating drug overdoses from heroin with those from fentanyl-laced heroin.
Apples and oranges. :crazy:
Totally ignored the point. Terrorists are not any different from a school shooter raised in the US. They both think they have a statement to make, and mass murder is how they intend to make it.
I guess if all our mass shootings in the US could be tied to terrorism, we could then breathe a sigh of relief. Problem solved!
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 17, 2022, 01:07:57 PM
I guess if all our mass shootings in the US could be tied to terrorism, we could then breath a sigh of relief. Problem solved!
They would still go after our guns. Poddock wasn't the shooter in Vegas...#tinfoil.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 17, 2022, 01:16:38 PM
Democrats are obviously not as far off the plantation mentality as they would like the rest of us to believe.
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/700x0/f/5/23c8134a831c2cb24e98a3a9591dee3d73d1d85374ec4704d7f0ea2159ad35/dixiecrat_564785353.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftrofire.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F09%2Fdixiecrat_564785353.jpg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 18, 2022, 04:45:28 AM
The reports nationwide there are way more than 200 mass shootings annually. I mean a typical weekend in Chiraq probably has at least 4 (guesstimation). And I'm sure HI had more than 1 last year. you would have to look at all the shooting incidents and see if there are more than a total of 4 people involved.
The usual standard is 4 or more killed but this number used 4 or more injured, that's why the Hawaii one was included. There may be more than one Hawaii incident but this one stood out because of the way the incident was.misrepresented.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 18, 2022, 04:55:04 AM
Yeah. We need to also stop conflating drug overdoses from heroin with those from fentanyl-laced heroin.
Apples and oranges. :crazy:
Totally ignored the point. Terrorists are not any different from a school shooter raised in the US. They both think they have a statement to make, and mass murder is how they intend to make it.
I guess if all our mass shootings in the US could be tied to terrorism, we could then breathe a sigh of relief. Problem solved!
If you can't tell the difference between a terrorist group with a political cause/agenda and school/work/etc shooters with mental health issues then you have no business on commenting on the topic. They are worlds apart and lumping in terrorist killings to school shooters to make school shooters seem not as much a problem is useless.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 18, 2022, 10:41:36 AM
If you can't tell the difference between a terrorist group with a political cause/agenda and school/work/etc shooters with mental health issues then you have no business on commenting on the topic. They are worlds apart and lumping in terrorist killings to school shooters to make school shooters seem not as much a problem is useless.
One very tiny and rare subset of crimes can be used as an argument to strip rights away from law abiding citizens. The others demonstrate why those rights are essential. Not sure who you think you are fooling here.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 18, 2022, 12:26:49 PM
If you can't tell the difference between a terrorist group with a political cause/agenda and school/work/etc shooters with mental health issues then you have no business on commenting on the topic. They are worlds apart and lumping in terrorist killings to school shooters to make school shooters seem not as much a problem is useless.
Are you telling me that a terrorist (often teenagers) killing people (including children) in a public place is totally different than an evil, deranged teen killing people in a public place?
What planet are you from? Dead is dead. Evil is evil. A mass shooting event is a mass shooting event.
You think the victims are going to care who killed them? Their families? Their friends?
If you implement armed security, you think they will only stop one kind of lethal threat over others?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 18, 2022, 12:28:40 PM
One very tiny and rare subset of crimes can be used as an argument to strip rights away from law abiding citizens. The others demonstrate why those rights are essential. Not sure who you think you are fooling here.
Yeah. He wants to exclude terrorist-related mass shootings, even though the AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE saw fit to include them.
He pretends *I* created that list, just so he can argue. He can't seem to do anything but argue over minor points.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 20, 2022, 05:20:01 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 21, 2022, 12:07:13 PM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 21, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
1 officer who was in the hallway has a wife who called him saying shes been shot and is dying. He wanted to go in, instead of waiting. This cop had to be detained and his gun taken away.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
This is so sad. :
Did his wife pass away? If so, how sad and I wonder how he is dealing with this. :(
Post by: groveler on June 21, 2022, 12:26:29 PM
This is so sad. :I'm afraid there would be a lot of dead cops if that had been me.
Did his wife pass away? If so, how sad and I wonder how he is dealing with this. :(
:grrr:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 21, 2022, 01:43:34 PM
I'm afraid there would be a lot of dead cops if that had been me.
:grrr:
The hearings today are bringing to light a lot of things we already knew which were downplayed.
The guy that was supposed to have been the commander on the scene is giving his testimony in a private hearing -- go figure. I guess that's one step removed from pleading the 5th.
Testimony confirmed that the Cops arrived on scene quickly, and they had the manpower and equipment needed to terminate the threat within 3 minutes of arriving.
Yet, they stayed outside, waiting for "someone" to give the order to breach.
That classroom door they said they were waiting on the keys to be able to open? It was never locked. In fact, it wasn't able to be locked. Maybe that's why there were no keys for it? Nobody from outside even tried to open it just to see if they could.
"Cluster F**k" doesn't begin to describe ...
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 21, 2022, 01:55:20 PM
The hearings today are bringing to light a lot of things we already knew which were downplayed.
The guy that was supposed to have been the commander on the scene is giving his testimony in a private hearing -- go figure. I guess that's one step removed from pleading the 5th.
Testimony confirmed that the Cops arrived on scene quickly, and they had the manpower and equipment needed to terminate the threat within 3 minutes of arriving.
Yet, they stayed outside, waiting for "someone" to give the order to breach.
That classroom door they said they were waiting on the keys to be able to open? It was never locked. In fact, it wasn't able to be locked. Maybe that's why there were no keys for it? Nobody from outside even tried to open it just to see if they could.
"Cluster F**k" doesn't begin to describe ...
Security footage shows no one touching the doors to see if they were locked or not. Per Director McGraw, the doors also do not lock from the inside, only the outside by key.
Reminds me of the fail vid of the cop pushing on the glass door and unable to get in. The guy next to him pulls the door open.
*Edit
Also they're trying hard to not release the bodycam footage. #noteverythingisaconspiracy
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 21, 2022, 02:11:44 PM
So sad.
Could there even be such a thing as "over training?" What I mean is they train so much for everything and every scenario that when the time comes they freeze. Or pause.
I remember it mentioned that they were trying to assess if it was a barricade incident or an active shooter incident. I guess the protocols and actions taken are different with the two.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 21, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Someone mentioned earlier that this incident is like the "Perfect Storm" of mass shootings. Everything that could go wrong went wrong.
So sad.
Could there even be such a thing as "over training?" What I mean is they train so much for everything and every scenario that when the time comes they freeze. Or pause.
I remember it mentioned that they were trying to assess if it was a barricade incident or an active shooter incident. I guess the protocols and actions taken are different with the two.
The center pole of this perfect storm WAS the training they had. They apparently instilled a sense of centralized control as the scenario begins, meaning one person gives the orders, and everyone else waits to be told what to do.
The better policy already exists: first people on the scene must make contact with the gunman, attempt to stop the killing, and try to extract/give first aid to the injured.
When seconds count, the police are waiting an hour outside until they are told to enter building by the chain of command -- even if the top of the chain doesn't have his radio.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 23, 2022, 09:24:11 AM
Now this is just 1 of the 3 top anti 2a orgs. I can image MDA and Giffords are doing the same thing.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 23, 2022, 09:59:10 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 25, 2022, 12:36:38 AM
One very tiny and rare subset of crimes can be used as an argument to strip rights away from law abiding citizens. The others demonstrate why those rights are essential. Not sure who you think you are fooling here.
You think that because they both kill a bunch of random people that therefore terrorists and school shooters are the same with the same solutions and same reasons they occur?
You can't just clump these two together to make school shooters look like a smaller problem. School shootings are horrific events that are happening way too often. Pointing out that gang violence takes way more lives does not make the problem smaller
BTW, terrorism caused deaths in the USA are also very rare, more rare than deaths by people who shoot up schools, churches, and workplaces.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 25, 2022, 12:40:14 AM
Are you telling me that a terrorist (often teenagers) killing people (including children) in a public place is totally different than an evil, deranged teen killing people in a public place?
What planet are you from? Dead is dead. Evil is evil. A mass shooting event is a mass shooting event.
You think the victims are going to care who killed them? Their families? Their friends?
If you implement armed security, you think they will only stop one kind of lethal threat over others?
Of course they are different, how can you not see it? They have entirely different motivations and causes and therefore different means of addressing the problem.
And the logic of dead is dead is so obviously flawed. Someone killed in a drunk driving accident is dead too, doesn't make drunk drivers the same as terrorists.
Post by: bass monkey on June 25, 2022, 12:09:12 PM
You think that because they both kill a bunch of random people that therefore terrorists and school shooters are the same with the same solutions and same reasons they occur?
Solutions are the same.
Good guy with a firearm neutralizes the threat.
The faster a good guy with a firearm is on scene the sooner the threat gets neutralized
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 25, 2022, 12:19:14 PM
Solutions are the same.
Good guy with a firearm neutralizes the threat.
The faster a good guy with a firearm is on scene the sooner the threat gets neutralized
Exactly.
There's no way to prevent mass shootings. Motivation is irrelevant. All that anyone can do is be ready to end the shooting with violence so the number of victims is not higher than it would have been.
Mental illness and radicalization are not problems that can be solved. Pretending you can flies in the face of history. With the hate and division in the US lately, one could argue that kids who shoot up their schools are being radicalized by the media to use mass murder to punish people they hate.
Suicide by Cop or suicide by explosive vest -- you're not going to "solve" people who are committed to going out in a "blaze of glory."
Post by: QUIETShooter on June 25, 2022, 04:19:40 PM
Unless technology leads way where at the moment of birth, we can know this individual is mentally flawed AND has the potential to do mass murder.
Might not be the best overall solution but meeting fire with fire seems the best way to go.
Try selling that common sense to these hand wringing, crybaby, "DO SOMETHING!! WAH....WAH!!" anti-gun nuts.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 25, 2022, 05:00:43 PM
In my opinion, Flapp's post above is unfortunately, very true. There is no way to prevent mass shootings.
Unless technology leads way where at the moment of birth, we can know this individual is mentally flawed AND has the potential to do mass murder.
Might not be the best overall solution but meeting fire with fire seems the best way to go.
Try selling that common sense to these hand wringing, crybaby, "DO SOMETHING!! WAH....WAH!!" anti-gun nuts.
Case in point. Violent behavior among those diagnosed as mentally ill or "challenged" is about the same as the "normal" population. So, either being mentally ill is not an indicator for future violence, or there are many, many people running around with mental illnesses that have not been diagnosed.
Whichever explanation you believe personally is irrelevant. The point is, we prohibit anyone with a history of mental illness from owning guns, but we see time after time someone who either seemed okay or should have been diagnosed left alone. When they commit violence, it's always about "keeping the guns out of the wrong hands."
The problem is not guns being in the wrong hands. The problem is nobody can predict whose hands are the wrong ones until AFTER they commit violence. The majority with mental problems are not violent, but we're stripping all of the ones we "catch" of their 2A rights. That "solution" is not stopping mentally ill people from getting guns. In fact, I bet there are many prescription drug addicts who can pass the background checks, because pain management isn't the same as an addiction -- or is it?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 28, 2022, 10:53:36 PM
Solutions are the same.
Good guy with a firearm neutralizes the threat.
The faster a good guy with a firearm is on scene the sooner the threat gets neutralized
But is that a solution to mass shootings? So imagine there are multiple armed teachers all well trained. In comes the crazy guy starting to shoot children. Teachers grab their guns and go face the threat and let's assume they stop him from doing any more damage. So instead of 20 dead kids, only 10 died.
Don't get me wrong, saving more lives is great but was that really a solution? It's like tacking drunk driving deaths by adding airbags to cars, sure it helps but it isn't a solution.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on June 28, 2022, 11:00:59 PM
In my opinion, Flapp's post above is unfortunately, very true. There is no way to prevent mass shootings.
Unless technology leads way where at the moment of birth, we can know this individual is mentally flawed AND has the potential to do mass murder.
Might not be the best overall solution but meeting fire with fire seems the best way to go.
Try selling that common sense to these hand wringing, crybaby, "DO SOMETHING!! WAH....WAH!!" anti-gun nuts.
I think it depends on how we measure whether a mass shooting is prevented. Obviously a resolute person with time and a few resources is going to be able to commit a mass murder and since we can't mind read or precisely predict such an event will occur then yes that specific mass shooting could not be prevented.
However if we look at mass shootings as a whole then I would argue they could be prevented. Programs that tackle the problems that lead these people to kill a bunch of people could work to address the issue before it manifests itself. I have seen a number of accounts of individuals who had planned to commit some type of mass shooting type incident but ended up not doing it. One individual, a student, reported he was unable to find a firearm. Another individual read a book about problems facing boys these days and ended up seeking help from a mental health professional. So if we look at it in this light then yes mass shootings can be prevented.
Post by: hvybarrels on June 28, 2022, 11:11:01 PM
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/4aWiLikxaIkDu/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47rc2tx8zwr3qc7tn6jifqu3d1nlzv158tdb2xpeyk&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 29, 2022, 12:45:39 AM
Don't ya love it when people present the products of their imagination as factual evidence and proceed to invent a new world where everything conforms to their opinion?
Yep. How many more kids have to die in their schools before the people opining for "prevention" realize there's only one measure that has a chance to work after all others fail?
Let's say 1,000 mass shooters are walking around in schools now. They won't all commit murder today. Some will tomorrow, some in a year or more, and some will "read a book" and decide not to kill.
Let's say 500 events are "prevented" through proper psych meds, religion, getting a girl friend, finding a great after school job, or counseling. That leaves another 500 kids planning and building up the desperation and hate to the point they finally take a gun to school and end their pain while making their mark on history.
That's 500 shootings that could happen over the next 1-5 years, and if we only focus on prevention, there won't be anyone at the schools the day of the event to stop the maniac.
There are preventatives for heart disease, like diet, exercise and medications. But tens of thousands who did everything right still get the disease. At that point, they need to TREAT the disease, because prevention failed. They need rehab, different medications, and possibly a transplant.
Even if we could reduce the number or patients to 1% what it is now, you still have to continue producing and researching ways to CURE the remaining 1%.
Why not invest the time and resources NOW in "treating" school shootings, because we know already with 100% certainty it will happen again and again. Without that, kids will die unnecessarily as those arguing against teachers carrying guns do absolutely nothing to stop them once they decide to kill.
No different that carrying a weapon for self-defense. When the gov't can take every single gun, knife or other weapon from all the criminals, then MAYBE I'll stop believing firearms carried outside the home is a necessity. Until then, it's MY CHOICE, not the government's, and not some gun control group's decision what I carry and how many rounds is "enough". My life, my family's life -- my choice. Same should apply to teachers and faculty. Give them the CHOICE to be prepared.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 06, 2022, 01:42:24 PM
About 150 yards away. Cop asked for permission to fire. No reply from command. Shooter then went into the school and the rest is history.
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 06, 2022, 02:04:14 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/uvalde-texas-police-officer-rifle-gunman-sights-before-entered-school?fbclid=IwAR2BnTUpTowcyjDpQOHLSXO_VVqrMyugnMhWmI02XL3Vx70ZMakb8HYDb7U
About 150 yards away. Cop asked for permission to fire. No reply from command. Shooter then went into the school and the rest is history.
Man, if you ask me, this will open the gates to countless lawsuits for the county. And rightfully so.
I hope it comes to fruition. It won't bring their beloved ones back but it is a form of justice deserved.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 12, 2022, 12:45:27 PM
Shooter crashes his truck in a ditch outside the school. 2 people approach to help and he shoots at them. 911 was called at this point. He then walks toward the school that is about 60 yards away and shooting randomly at it.
He enters the school and is seen going into a classroom at 11:33am. he fires about 100rds. So lets assume at this point, all the people in there are shot/dead/dying (important later). At 11:36, the first cops arrive inside the hallway and know exactly where the shooter is. They do not sweep corners or the rest of the rooms in the hallway. Also gun shots can still be head at this moment. The cops are about 30 yards away from the classroom door where the shooter is and have a perfect line of sight to this door.
Cops then approach the door and wait outside as the gun fire has stopped. They have no way of knowing that the kids were already killed. They hold and more hold in the hallway until ballistic shields show up like 25 mins later. Cops then shot at thru the door and they retreat. No one showed up with keys to open what was stated is a locked door by the chief. More holding until later. Then a few more shots are popped off. Still holding by the cops in the hallway.
Then they decide to breach 50 mins later, the 2 shields are not in front of the group as they walk toward the classroom that is 30 yards away. At this point, 1 cop decides his hands are dirty and uses the hand sanitizer dispenser that is in line of sight of the door 30 yards away attached to the wall. Then they breach.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 12, 2022, 02:04:51 PM
Who the hell calls for permission to shoot when they have the suspect in sight and entering a school full of kids?
This is why government is not the solution. Government is the PROBLEM. Whoever decided this was the policy and that Cops in the field can't shoot unless shot at (I assume) is total insanity.
Yeah, he might have missed, but if there's no one else in the line of fire, empty the damn mag!! Don't wait for permission to save kids' lives!
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 12, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
My #1 question -- out of a bunch of sub-#1 questions -- is:
Who the hell calls for permission to shoot when they have the suspect in sight and entering a school full of kids?
This is why government is not the solution. Government is the PROBLEM. Whoever decided this was the policy and that Cops in the field can't shoot unless shot at (I assume) is total insanity.
Yeah, he might have missed, but if there's no one else in the line of fire, empty the damn mag!! Don't wait for permission to save kids' lives!
He stated that there might be someone behind the shooter. I call BS from the distance where the car crashed and to the room, looked like empty cars and buildings. Not like there was a farmers market. Sounds like he is using that excuse to justify not taking the shot.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 12, 2022, 02:10:26 PM
He stated that there might be someone behind the shooter. I call BS from the distance where the car crashed and to the room, looked like empty cars and buildings. Not like there was a farmers market. Sounds like he is using that excuse to justify not taking the shot.
The Cop's duty is to protect the public at large, not avoid shooting a bystander if there's a shooter with a rifle entering a school.
The info quoted said he either didn't hear his supervisor give permission, or permission was given too late, allowing the shooter to go inside.
Sounds like a shift in the narrative to cover a few butts.
Post by: aletheuo137 on July 13, 2022, 10:36:15 AM
https://conservativebrief.com/new-video-64461/
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 13, 2022, 09:14:25 PM
My #1 question -- out of a bunch of sub-#1 questions -- is:
Who the hell calls for permission to shoot when they have the suspect in sight and entering a school full of kids?
In the vast majority of cases it is going to be the individual officer's call. Even if the supervisor told him over the radio specifically to take the shot the officer is the one who has to justify the shot. "I shot because he told me to shoot" would not suffice in most cases.
Unless there is some stupid local law or policy that says permission needs to be obtained first which really doesn't seem plausible since most police shootings don't have time to call.
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 14, 2022, 05:37:39 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 14, 2022, 08:47:49 AM
In the vast majority of cases it is going to be the individual officer's call. Even if the supervisor told him over the radio specifically to take the shot the officer is the one who has to justify the shot. "I shot because he told me to shoot" would not suffice in most cases.
Unless there is some stupid local law or policy that says permission needs to be obtained first which really doesn't seem plausible since most police shootings don't have time to call.
At first I was thinking (being objective), maybe the cop thought it was someone who was just open carrying and walking down the street (IDK if legal in this county, but lets assume it is). But then after seeing the video and how soon the good samaritins were shot at and the 911 call and him shooting at the building randomly, there is no way the cop could have assumed this.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 14, 2022, 09:54:24 AM
How does a cop have to ask permission of his supervisor over the radio to fire on a person carrying a rifle into a SCHOOL (illegal in most states), when the cop is ON THE SCENE, and the supervisor is NOT ON THE SCENE? What is the supervisor going to do? Play 20 questions before deciding?
Ridiculous.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 14, 2022, 10:19:47 AM
I still don't get it.
How does a cop have to ask permission of his supervisor over the radio to fire on a person carrying a rifle into a SCHOOL (illegal in most states), when the cop is ON THE SCENE, and the supervisor is NOT ON THE SCENE? What is the supervisor going to do? Play 20 questions before deciding?
Ridiculous.
Blame game.
Post by: passivekinetic on July 14, 2022, 09:17:19 PM
I still don't get it.
How does a cop have to ask permission of his supervisor over the radio to fire on a person carrying a rifle into a SCHOOL (illegal in most states), when the cop is ON THE SCENE, and the supervisor is NOT ON THE SCENE? What is the supervisor going to do? Play 20 questions before deciding?
Ridiculous.
Not sure if the video has been posted here yet
https://youtu.be/t1TbnC57d7E
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 19, 2022, 08:26:04 PM
At first I was thinking (being objective), maybe the cop thought it was someone who was just open carrying and walking down the street (IDK if legal in this county, but lets assume it is). But then after seeing the video and how soon the good samaritins were shot at and the 911 call and him shooting at the building randomly, there is no way the cop could have assumed this.
Is it possible the cop wasn't sure whether it was the suspect or a plain clothes officer/off duty officer responding? If they offered that explanation now then I wouldn't buy it since if it were the real explanation they should have lead with it. It doesn't sound like that would have been a reasonable assumption though if I understand the series of events correctly.
The real question I have is how much of a time window did the officer have. Did he have 30 seconds to take a shot? Did he have 3 seconds? The shorter the window the harder to make the right call.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2022, 11:28:56 AM
Smoke and mirros. Cops immune from civil liability for not acting, Warren vs. DC. So Daniel Defense and the gun store are the real targets.
*Update:
They might have a case because if the cops prevent you from helping family, then you can win. But if they just stood there and did nothing, then Warren vs. DC plays and cops are immune. There have been cases where cops prevented a family member from helping and they lost (cops) in court (found liable).
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2022, 11:31:13 AM
Is it possible the cop wasn't sure whether it was the suspect or a plain clothes officer/off duty officer responding? If they offered that explanation now then I wouldn't buy it since if it were the real explanation they should have lead with it. It doesn't sound like that would have been a reasonable assumption though if I understand the series of events correctly.
The real question I have is how much of a time window did the officer have. Did he have 30 seconds to take a shot? Did he have 3 seconds? The shorter the window the harder to make the right call.
No because he asked twice if he can engage. You dont ask permission to shoot if it isn't a target.
Cop had enough time to radio twice asking for permission. So more than 3 seconds. 30 might be possible.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 22, 2022, 11:37:24 AM
No because he asked twice if he can engage. You dont ask permission to shoot if it isn't a target.
Cop had enough time to radio twice asking for permission. So more than 3 seconds. 30 might be possible.
Exactly my point. EEF thinks somehow the Cop
Given the short time needed for the shooter to reach and enter the school, I find it a major (and ridiculous) policy for any Cop to have to get permission to engage. In almost any situation, the supervisor will have LESS, not more, information, and would likely order the Cop to wait, somehow hoping they get more info before it's too late.
Sometimes common sense means just that. It doesn't take a "thought experiment" to come to the correct answer. The Cop should have been able to make the call on his own in that situation. Only he/she has the most complete picture of the current situation, and any mistakes will be theirs to explain and live with. Calling a supervisor relieves them of that responsibility -- nothing more. Seems like something a police union might come up with to protect officers from being crucified for a bad shoot.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2022, 12:26:03 PM
Exactly my point. EEF thinks somehow the Cop in scene expected the supervisor over the radio has more information on the identity of the person approaching the school. :crazy:
Given the short time needed for the shooter to reach and enter the school, I find it a major (and ridiculous) policy for any Cop to have to get permission to engage. In almost any situation, the supervisor will have LESS, not more, information, and would likely order the Cop to wait, somehow hoping they get more info before it's too late.
Sometimes common sense means just that. It doesn't take a "thought experiment" to come to the correct answer. The Cop should have been able to make the call on his own in that situation. Only he/she has the most complete picture of the current situation, and any mistakes will be theirs to explain and live with. Calling a supervisor relieves them of that responsibility -- nothing more. Seems like something a police union might come up with to protect officers from being crucified for a bad shoot.
This is why I posted what I did. This is what an objective reasoning thought looks like, and not whataboutism.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 29, 2022, 10:48:40 PM
No because he asked twice if he can engage. You dont ask permission to shoot if it isn't a target.
Cop had enough time to radio twice asking for permission. So more than 3 seconds. 30 might be possible.
I see, I didn't know he asked twice. Do you know if they have a recording? I am interested in what he said.
The reason I am curious about the details is because I don't want to rush and monday morning quarter back his decision not to shoot. Obviously in retrospect it was a bad decision but not knowing what was known and unknown to the officer makes it harder to judge. Like I said, I doubt he had to ask permission to shoot but still considering all the possibilities.
The only real plausible explanation to me is if he couldn't tell whether the male was a suspect or another officer but like I said I doubt that because they didn't lead with that explanation. If tapes of the radio transmission are available maybe that can be ruled out too.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 11, 2022, 11:38:45 AM
It isn't hard if you obey the following:
1) The Constitution
2) Do what's in the best interest of the citizens, unless if violates #1 above
3) Use actual common sense/logic
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 28, 2024, 05:06:18 PM
Sledgehammer, Activision, Infinity Ward/Blizzard, etc...
Also suing Meta, Instagram, Microsoft (owns Blizzard).
If they win, then it's open season on every video game and this won't be the end for the above. These companies have made COD for decades.
Then, when will movies and TV shows be next?