2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on July 11, 2022, 12:46:29 PM
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https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Attorney-General-Opinion-22-02.pdf
Finally. But we still have to see if CCW permits are issued. This applies to CCW only and not open. Open can still be denied and must show cause.
Synopsis:
Need to carry is removed
"Good moral character" is changed to "suitable person". Which is:
1) No domestic violence incidents recently
2) No recent careless handling or storage of guns
3) No recent incidents of booze or drug abuse
4) no other recent violent conduct.
Unclear about training requirement.
HI is the last AG to reply. CA even replied the very next evening after the SCOTUS ruling.
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https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Attorney-General-Opinion-22-02.pdf
Finally. But we still have to see if CCW permits are issued. This applies to CCW only and not open. Open can still be denied and must show cause.
Synopsis:
Need to carry is removed
"Good moral character" is changed to "suitable person". Which is:
1) No domestic violence incidents recently
2) No recent careless handling or storage of guns
3) No recent incidents of booze or drug abuse
4) no other recent violent conduct.
Unclear about training requirement.
HI is the last AG to reply. CA even replied the very next evening after the SCOTUS ruling.
doesn't say anything about training or a live fire testing requirement. so NO NEED!!! :shaka:
thanks for the info, CMO :shaka:
I'm going to apply very soon
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doesn't say anything about training or a live fire testing requirement. so NO NEED!!! :shaka:
thanks for the info, CMO :shaka:
I'm going to apply very soon
They still have "Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner". A reasonable chief would say if you own a gun and have no record of accidents, then we all G. But I think HI is gonna use this to deny people for now. Just my $0.02 because we don't have a reasonable chief, AG, or politicians.
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With the Response of the State AG, Maybe Andrew of HIFICO should AGAIN Engage with Chief Logan with the attached Dated 7/7/2022. To me this document is VERY Promising BUT still....
Guess i better head down to get my pictures taken and get my paperwork submittal done.!
Aloha!
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They still have to "Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner". A reasonable chief would say if you own a gun and have no record of accidents, then we all G. But I think HI is gonna use this to deny people for now. Just my $0.02 because we don't have a reasonable chief, AG, or politicians.
is this the AG's verbiage? because if it uses "the", then that means specific to a particular firearm. so, in other words, CCW would be specific to your G43, or you P365. You couldn't vary your carry weapon depending on day's plan, dress code, etc.
as opposed to "be qualified to use a firearm in a safe manner", which is generic.
just my 2 cents, worth even less now thanks to Bidenflation, maybe i should say: just my 2 rubles.
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They still have "Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner". A reasonable chief would say if you own a gun and have no record of accidents, then we all G. But I think HI is gonna use this to deny people for now. Just my $0.02 because we don't have a reasonable chief, AG, or politicians.
you are right. they will make it very difficult for us to get a ccw permit
in the mean time I'll get my passport pics and decide which pistol I am going to use
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is this the AG's verbiage? because if it uses "the", then that means specific to a particular firearm. so, in other words, CCW would be specific to your G43, or you P365. You couldn't vary your carry weapon depending on day's plan, dress code, etc.
as opposed to "be qualified to use a firearm in a safe manner", which is generic.
just my 2 cents, worth even less now thanks to Bidenflation, maybe i should say: just my 2 rubles.
That is how the law is written, and you need to state the firearm serial number when applying. Serial number has to match your registration form. You also need another set of applications for open carry.
I submitted 2 applications. Going to submit 4 more.
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With the Response of the State AG, Maybe Andrew of HIFICO should AGAIN Engage with Chief Logan with the attached Dated 7/7/2022. To me this document is VERY Promising BUT still....
Guess i better head down to get my pictures taken and get my paperwork submittal done.!
Aloha!
He goes to HPD daily to check and is there right now.
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is this the AG's verbiage? because if it uses "the", then that means specific to a particular firearm. so, in other words, CCW would be specific to your G43, or you P365. You couldn't vary your carry weapon depending on day's plan, dress code, etc.
as opposed to "be qualified to use a firearm in a safe manner", which is generic.
just my 2 cents, worth even less now thanks to Bidenflation, maybe i should say: just my 2 rubles.
HRS 134-9, copied and pasted.
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They still have "Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner". A reasonable chief would say if you own a gun and have no record of accidents, then we all G. But I think HI is gonna use this to deny people for now. Just my $0.02 because we don't have a reasonable chief, AG, or politicians.
Following the current process when applying for a handgun, you can show your hunters education certificate or firearms certificate.
That should be more then enough "to be qualified" for a ccp
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These are the requirements to obtain a CCW as from the HPD LTC2018Application
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/
https://www.honolulupd.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/LTC2018Application.pdf
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm
License to Carry Concealed
Application Instructions
1. Must have a handgun registered in Hawaii at the time of your application
2. Two passport photos
3. Fill out the application in person with government issued identification
4. If born outside of the United States, USA Passport, USA Citizenship documents, or USA Permanent Resident Card
5. Provide handwritten or typed reasons for License to Carry Concealed
6. Proof of completion of a Hunter Education Course or other Firearms Safety or Training Course described by Section 134-2(g), Hawaii Revised Statutes
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https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Attorney-General-Opinion-22-02.pdf
Finally. But we still have to see if CCW permits are issued. This applies to CCW only and not open. Open can still be denied and must show cause.
Synopsis:
Need to carry is removed
"Good moral character" is changed to "suitable person". Which is:
1) No domestic violence incidents recently
2) No recent careless handling or storage of guns
3) No recent incidents of booze or drug abuse
4) no other recent violent conduct.
Unclear about training requirement.
HI is the last AG to reply. CA even replied the very next evening after the SCOTUS ruling.
Suitable Person - if you didn't do any of those, you're suitable.
Training - I would think the Proof of Hunters Ed or Firearms Safety or Training Course fulfills the requirements as there are no others listed in any of the HRS 134-X statutes
And the chiefs can still inquire about your reason to obtain, but they can't do anything about your reasons.
“…the chiefs of police may still inquire about an applicant’s reasons for seeking a concealed carry license. The reasons an applicant provides should only be used in reviewing a concealed carry application to the extent relevant to other lawful requirements to obtain a concealed carry license, such as whether the applicant is a “suitable person.” An applicant’s reasons for seeking a concealed carry license should not be used to deny or restrict a license because the applicant purportedly lacks a sufficiently good reason to obtain a license…”
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Chief still saying hes waiting for legal advice.
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"Chief still saying hes waiting for legal advice"
Question: Isn't The State AG the "TOP DOG" for the State of Hawaii.
If not, WHO is the Chief waiting for?
Oh Boy! Here we go!
Hmmmm
Hey wait, isn't this an "election" year?
Gov will be new and so will AG.,,,,
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"Chief still saying hes waiting for legal advice"
Question: Isn't The State AG the "TOP DOG" for the State of Hawaii.
If not, WHO is the Chief waiting for?
Oh Boy! Here we go!
Hmmmm
Hey wait, isn't this an "election" year?
Gov will be new and so will AG.,,,,
He always had the authority to issue. Delaying on purpose.
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In my mind, the AG missed the boat on recommending they keep the "reason" part for open (unconcealed) carry.
The Heller decision said individuals have a right to carry outside the home, and we have the right to OPEN CARRY.
The Bruen decision said the state can't require a "good cause" for licensing when applying for a license.
So, if the Constitution protects individual's right to open carry, and it protects against the state applying a "good cause" standard for approval, how can the Hawaii AG say this?
Assuming this approach to concealed carry licenses, Bruen
does not require any change to the requirements established
under HRS § 134-9 to obtain an unconcealed carry license. An
applicant for an unconcealed carry license must still
“sufficiently indicate[]” that he or she has an “urgency” or
“need” to carry a firearm and is “engaged in the protection of
life and property,” along with any other statutory requirements
that must be satisfied under Hawaiʻi law to obtain an unconcealed
carry license (except for the citizenship requirement as applied
to lawful permanent residents and U.S. nationals2). The
standards that the chiefs of police should apply in considering
applications for unconcealed carry licenses are discussed in
Attorney General Opinion No. 18-1.
Makes no logical sense to me. If the state wants to ban open carry in public spaces, they can do that as long as concealed carry licensing follows a "shall issue" scheme, which is the result of eliminating the "may issue if the state decides your reason is exceptional" scheme.
Keeping the "reason" requirement for one and not the other is political BS game-playing. The first time someone wanting to open carry can't, this will be back in the court (Young?).
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In my mind, the AG missed the boat on recommending they keep the "reason" part for open (unconcealed) carry.
The Heller decision said individuals have a right to carry outside the home, and we have the right to OPEN CARRY.
The Bruen decision said the state can't require a "good cause" for licensing when applying for a license.
So, if the Constitution protects individual's right to open carry, and it protects against the state applying a "good cause" standard for approval, how can the Hawaii AG say this?
Makes no logical sense to me. If the state wants to ban open carry in public spaces, they can do that as long as concealed carry licensing follows a "shall issue" scheme, which is the result of eliminating the "may issue if the state decides your reason is exceptional" scheme.
Keeping the "reason" requirement for one and not the other is political BS game-playing. The first time someone wanting to open carry can't, this will be back in the court (Young?).
Young was remanded to the 9th Circus for a review.
In light of what their bosses just said I doubt the 9th will not
rule in favor of Young. It is a matter of when the 9th Circus takes it up again.
I think it is all academic at this point. Issue the ruling, As slowly as possible.
:wtf:
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https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Attorney-General-Opinion-22-02.pdf
Finally. But we still have to see if CCW permits are issued. This applies to CCW only and not open. Open can still be denied and must show cause.
Synopsis:
Need to carry is removed
"Good moral character" is changed to "suitable person". Which is:
1) No domestic violence incidents recently
2) No recent careless handling or storage of guns
3) No recent incidents of booze or drug abuse
4) no other recent violent conduct.
Unclear about training requirement.
HI is the last AG to reply. CA even replied the very next evening after the SCOTUS ruling.
Approve my application and issue me my permit, HPD!!!
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Interesting read. What really stands out to me is this bit
"The chiefs of police should not deny an application for a concealed carry license, or impose restrictions on a concealed carry license, because an applicant fails to demonstrate a special need or a sufficiently good reason to carry a firearm."
I think once the chiefs get this letter that they should begin to approve permits. Maybe another week or two for their internal legal advisors to give guidance but that can all be done while processing the CCW permit.
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Interesting read. What really stands out to me is this bit
"The chiefs of police should not deny an application for a concealed carry license, or impose restrictions on a concealed carry license, because an applicant fails to demonstrate a special need or a sufficiently good reason to carry a firearm."
I think once the chiefs get this letter that they should begin to approve permits. Maybe another week or two for their internal legal advisors to give guidance but that can all be done while processing the CCW permit.
There is no internal advisor needed since the chief is immune from liability for approving permits. Its the law.
Sign them now. Simple.
We know chief logan got the letter and read it today. But still "pending" on permits.
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There is no internal advisor needed since the chief is immune from liability for approving permits. Its the law.
Sign them now. Simple.
We know chief logan got the letter and read it today. But still "pending" on permits.
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The Attorney General is on the state side while the PD is on the city side, I wonder if the PD is seeking an opinion from a city agency.
There still seems to be a bit of grey area by the parts of the law that remain so they may be trying to figure out how the remaining provisions apply. He will have to approve at least some otherwise he is violating the standing but somewhere he will draw a line and I wonder where that will be.
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The Attorney General is on the state side while the PD is on the city side, I wonder if the PD is seeking an opinion from a city agency.
There still seems to be a bit of grey area by the parts of the law that remain so they may be trying to figure out how the remaining provisions apply. He will have to approve at least some otherwise he is violating the standing but somewhere he will draw a line and I wonder where that will be.
State of Hawaii law does not allow for cities, counties only.
Perhaps that is why Honolulu is so screwed up as they are the county of Honolulu when they really are the county of Oahu that has a town called Honolulu.
In any event the state laws supersede county ordinances. And the state AG is the guy in charge of enforcing state laws. not the county attorney general.
State law is HRS 134-9.
Ag has ruled. Cops not complying are in violation of our rights under color of law Title 18 USC section 242 has something to say about that, as does my civil
rights attorney.
I wish they had had a law school in Hilo, I'd be raking in the profits right now.
:thumbsup:
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The Attorney General is on the state side while the PD is on the city side, I wonder if the PD is seeking an opinion from a city agency.
There still seems to be a bit of grey area by the parts of the law that remain so they may be trying to figure out how the remaining provisions apply. He will have to approve at least some otherwise he is violating the standing but somewhere he will draw a line and I wonder where that will be.
The Chief uses the state law HRS134-9 since there is no CCW county ordinance (ROH). And denial letters refer to HRS134-9 on the letter. The chiefs denial letter to Andrew of HIFICO stated he was waiting on the AG and that the AG was awaiting on a ruling on Young by the 9th.
Guess the AG realized they will have to pay big bucks if the 9th makes a ruling before they change the law due to it being unconstitutional. So the AG issued the letter. Now Logan's excuse is he is waiting on "consul" to advise him. This is now what we call using logic to read between the lines. Logan is goal post moving to delay any permits as long as he can. I mean if he said that he was waiting on plastic cards so they can print them, that would be a better excuse. Logan could issue them the next day as well, but doesn't. He has failed his first test as the new chief. Which is why I posted SSDD.
The grey area you are referring to is what HI and Logan are doing to find a reason to still deny permits. Instead of taking the SCOTUS for face value and their intent. I posted about this already. There also is no "a bit of grey area".
Why do you think the AG also mentions permanent residents in their letter. Because the main guy doing all of this sued HPD and won because they denied his permit to acquire because he was not a US citizen. Then recently the state lost against American Samoans in HI who they too have been denying permits to acquire.
This is what we call corruption. Your new boss isn't starting off too well.
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State of Hawaii law does not allow for cities, counties only.
Perhaps that is why Honolulu is so screwed up as they are the county of Honolulu when they really are the county of Oahu that has a town called Honolulu.
Great point. By calling it all Honolulu it gives the Punahou graduates a mental mandate to take a colonialist attitude towards everyone else.
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Now that there is no logical excuse besides just stall tactics, they need to sign and issue permits immediately. I think I’m going to call HPD and see what they tell me after lunch
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After seeing how Hawaii government operates, it's not just stalling. Its incompetence. Look at the rail, unemployment fiasco, building permits, just about everything in Hawaii takes forever. Well except releasing criminals from jail, they do that pretty fast.
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After seeing how Hawaii government operates, it's not just stalling. Its incompetence. Look at the rail, unemployment fiasco, building permits, just about everything in Hawaii takes forever. Well except releasing criminals from jail, they do that pretty fast.
Lol commies will comm
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The Chief uses the state law HRS134-9 since there is no CCW county ordinance (ROH). And denial letters refer to HRS134-9 on the letter. The chiefs denial letter to Andrew of HIFICO stated he was waiting on the AG and that the AG was awaiting on a ruling on Young by the 9th.
Guess the AG realized they will have to pay big bucks if the 9th makes a ruling before they change the law due to it being unconstitutional. So the AG issued the letter. Now Logan's excuse is he is waiting on "consul" to advise him. This is now what we call using logic to read between the lines. Logan is goal post moving to delay any permits as long as he can. I mean if he said that he was waiting on plastic cards so they can print them, that would be a better excuse. Logan could issue them the next day as well, but doesn't. He has failed his first test as the new chief. Which is why I posted SSDD.
The grey area you are referring to is what HI and Logan are doing to find a reason to still deny permits. Instead of taking the SCOTUS for face value and their intent. I posted about this already. There also is no "a bit of grey area".
Why do you think the AG also mentions permanent residents in their letter. Because the main guy doing all of this sued HPD and won because they denied his permit to acquire because he was not a US citizen. Then recently the state lost against American Samoans in HI who they too have been denying permits to acquire.
This is what we call corruption. Your new boss isn't starting off too well.
His letter specifically stated that HPD was awaiting the AG's opinion? Well since AG issued their opinion I expect the Chief to start approving permits by the end of the month.
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His letter specifically stated that HPD was awaiting the AG's opinion? Well since AG issued their opinion I expect the Chief to start approving permits by the end of the month.
You seem very hopeful in a hopeless organization. The corruption is sickening. Chief Logan is now deemed a POS and spineless. Imagine being elected into your position and what I’d imagine is being scared of being fired for doing the right thing, not what the communist Gov and state staff want
I’d love to see you right and permits be issued immediately, but I guess we’ll see when the time comes
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You seem very hopeful in a hopeless organization. The corruption is sickening. Chief Logan is now deemed a POS and spineless. Imagine being elected into your position and what I’d imagine is being scared of being fired for doing the right thing, not what the communist Gov and state staff want
I’d love to see you right and permits be issued immediately, but I guess we’ll see when the time comes
How does corruption come into play? Is someone lining his pockets to not issue permits?
Like I have been saying, I feel 1 month is reasonable for him to get the initial decision (done), get legal advice (done), and update policies and procedures (?). Since I set that time as a window I felt reasonable I am not going to jump on him until after he has violated it. When/if he crosses that line significantly then I will criticize him.
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There is also the issue that Ige forced everyone in the government to take the clot shot and all departments are having massive understaffing problems as a result. They might not have the manpower to pick up the forms and physically put them on the chiefs desk for a signature.
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His letter specifically stated that HPD was awaiting the AG's opinion? Well since AG issued their opinion I expect the Chief to start approving permits by the end of the month.
Yes.
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Remember that the CITY has a LOT of VACANT Positions! HPD is NO DIFFERENT!
Thus they all will hide behind that fact!
But i'm going down today to submit my paperwork.
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So now we're at the Chief waiting on consul to tell him what to do, even though the AG already did. Which he stated as the reason why apps are pending (waiting on the AG).
Once he can delay as long as possible knowing a UPIA will come, he will then state that HPD is working on upgrading their CCW cards and printers. Since the ones they do issue to recruits are paper. I don't remember if they're even laminated, but def not a plastic card. Then when HIFICO follows up on the updated CCW cards, HPD will site supply shortage and card on backorder.
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Maui is doing what Maui does. They are trying to require a proficiency test, but they have no idea what it is. Like how they stalled for Taser sales until they got another lawsuit. Maui is way more anti 2a than Oahu.
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How does corruption come into play? Is someone lining his pockets to not issue permits?
Like I have been saying, I feel 1 month is reasonable for him to get the initial decision (done), get legal advice (done), and update policies and procedures (?). Since I set that time as a window I felt reasonable I am not going to jump on him until after he has violated it. When/if he crosses that line significantly then I will criticize him.
Corruption doesn't mean you get paid. It can also mean you get to keep your job.
As for policies and procedures, they have been in place for years. How do you think they issued the other 4 permits over the last 20 years. HRS134-9 has the entire process and HPD has the forms to do it. If they are saying they need a procedure, they're full of shit.
Following that, I call bullshit on the need for a firearm to apply for a CCW permit. Nowhere in HRS134 or the ROH does it state that you can only have a specific firearm on the permit. Nowhere does it state you have to HAVE a firearm. People are going to go through a class or Hunters Ed and want to apply for a CCW and then go find a firearm they want to purchase. How many of us tried our friends or went and rented before we bought? A firearm is an investment. Shelling out $500 to $1500 for a firearm is not an easy thing for most people. It's the equivalent of having to go buy and register a car before you can get your Drivers License. What about people who come to work for just a couple of days every month (less than statutory 5 days for registration) but want to carry? I know several who do that as government contractors. If HPD can show in the HRS or the ROH where it states a specific firearm AND must be registered in Hawaii, then once again they are making up rules.
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"The firearm" and not "a firearm" could mean gun specific. NV was gun specific until 2014 or so.
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So now we're at the Chief waiting on consul to tell him what to do, even though the AG already did. Which he stated as the reason why apps are pending (waiting on the AG).
Once he can delay as long as possible knowing a UPIA will come, he will then state that HPD is working on upgrading their CCW cards and printers. Since the ones they do issue to recruits are paper. I don't remember if they're even laminated, but def not a plastic card. Then when HIFICO follows up on the updated CCW cards, HPD will site supply shortage and card on backorder.
They can print a letter on HPD letterhead with the chiefs signature. I can even write the verbiage for them...
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HPD LETTERHEAD
ISSUE DATE: EXPIRATION DATE: PERMIT#:
I hereby certify that Citizen Kanaka has been granted a permit for the carriage of a concealed weapon in compliance with Hawaii Revised Statute 134-9.
This permit must be presented with an official form of photo identification (Drivers License or Identification Card from any state, Military ID card or Passport) when requested by Law Enforcement when carrying a concealed weapon.
This permit does not authorize the carriage of prohibited weapons as defined by law.
Signed,
Chief of Police
City and County of Honolulu
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"The firearm" and not "a firearm" could mean gun specific. NV was gun specific until 2014 or so.
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They dumped that requirement in 2012. But it was in the NRS
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His letter specifically stated that HPD was awaiting the AG's opinion? Well since AG issued their opinion I expect the Chief to start approving permits by the end of the month.
I applaud your unwavering faith in the police of our state.
I pray they live up to it.
But I know they will fail you.
:wave:
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I hereby certify that Citizen Kanaka ...
Chee
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I wonder if the prerequisites for applying for police chief in the counties state that you must be anti-2a.
Some of the sheriffs on the mainland has balls the size of Mt. Everest. They hold the constitution to heart and will defy all anti-2a government officials that get in the way of the 2nd amendment.
I bet these type of sheriffs applied for HPD chief and was immediately denied by the commission.
Hawaii being the puke-ass state that it is, will make it hard for law-abiding citizens to exercise their 2a rights.
I stand ready to lend support in efforts to make sure the SCOTUS decision is honored, no matter how long it takes.
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They can print a letter on HPD letterhead with the chiefs signature. I can even write the verbiage for them...
....................................
HPD LETTERHEAD
ISSUE DATE: EXPIRATION DATE: PERMIT#:
I hereby certify that Citizen Kanaka has been granted a permit for the carriage of a concealed weapon in compliance with Hawaii Revised Statute 134-9.
This permit must be presented with an official form of photo identification (Drivers License or Identification Card from any state, Military ID card or Passport) when requested by Law Enforcement when carrying a concealed weapon.
This permit does not authorize the carriage of prohibited weapons as defined by law.
Signed,
Chief of Police
City and County of Honolulu
You’re hired. You start immediately
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I wonder if the prerequisites for applying for police chief in the counties state that you must be anti-2a.
...
One of the issues there is that not every state uses their LE agencies the same. In some states, the cities have not incorporated the entire county, so while the city cops have jurisdiction inside city limits, the Sheriff has jurisdiction within the unincorporated county lands.
Also, most states have a state highway patrol. They have statewide jurisdiction, but will normally only be called in for local crimes if there's a conflict of jurisdictions or a cross-over to more than one. Otherwise, they stick to the state and federal highways.
Here, each island is part of a county, and the cops are supposed to enforce laws in the entire county. Sheriff is organizationally part of the department of safety, and they are tasked with security at airports, courthouses, etc. You won't see a Sheriff's Deputy being asked to respond to a 911 call ordinarily.
Having said that, Cops are usually pro-gun control because it can make their own jobs safer. While the laws do nothing to stop criminals, the law-abiding man or woman interacting with a Cop will be unlikely to have a firearm in their car or holstered.
I'm not as sure the Chief is anti-2A, or if his on-the-job safety is being placed above the Constitutional rights of the people he serves.
Conflict of interest more than a political or personal position against the 2A.
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If they are bitching about not having forms.... see the post from HiFiCO
https://www.facebook.com/hificoorg/photos/a.422936111527623/1343437962810762
Also, Andrew from HiFiCO got a Dear FuckFace email from HPD also telling him to essentially pound sand. Find it on Instagram
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I wonder if the prerequisites for applying for police chief in the counties state that you must be anti-2a.
Some of the sheriffs on the mainland has balls the size of Mt. Everest. They hold the constitution to heart and will defy all anti-2a government officials that get in the way of the 2nd amendment.
I bet these type of sheriffs applied for HPD chief and was immediately denied by the commission.
Hawaii being the puke-ass state that it is, will make it hard for law-abiding citizens to exercise their 2a rights.
I stand ready to lend support in efforts to make sure the SCOTUS decision is honored, no matter how long it takes.
Many mainland Sheriff's are not appointed, but elected. We don't get to elect our Sheriff here.
I'm sure it's not on the app, but behind closed doors about denying CCW permits. Even the Kauai Chief is from NV where the law forces their chief to issue CCW's. I state forces because he has not issued any on Kauai and he has the descresion to do so. Which means if he had the option in Vegas, he would deny all.
We are in the same boat with Logan now. He could easily begin issuing them, but he chooses the blame game. Which is the typical MO when hard stuff needs to be dealt with by our leaders.
The Chief of police is a political position. I already talked to a few patrol HPD and they never liked him and even used the word corrupt. They all state the other guy was a better choice. IDk who they were referring to.
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After seeing how Hawaii government operates, it's not just stalling. Its incompetence. Look at the rail, unemployment fiasco, building permits, just about everything in Hawaii takes forever. Well except releasing criminals from jail, they do that pretty fast.
It's not just incompetence. While there can be no doubt that all government services in Hawaii are rife with gross incompetence, the overall strategy, as implemented by the power elite and their backers, is to destroy (aka "burn down") the system and replace it with one of their choosing and total control (aka "socialist/fascist authoritarianism"). Their denial of the exercise of the right enshrined by the Second Amendment is part of this strategy. It's not incompetence, it's evil.
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It's not just incompetence.
I would say its corruption.
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Chee
Haaaawaaaaaiiiiiiiiiaaaaannnnnn!!!!!
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I applaud your unwavering faith in the police of our state.
I pray they live up to it.
But I know they will fail you.
:wave:
I agree with grov here. Everyone wants to be in a position of authority but noone wants to be responsible. We dont have any real leaders in our state. Seems like a bunch of puppets.
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"Let me just type that newly updated concealed carry permit on my invisible typewriter"
(https://c.tenor.com/A1MNUqn-eZwAAAAd/simpsons-invisible-typewriter.gif)
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"Let me just type that newly updated concealed carry permit on my invisible typewriter"
(https://c.tenor.com/A1MNUqn-eZwAAAAd/simpsons-invisible-typewriter.gif)
Classic.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2022/07/post-bruen-culture-shock-good-cause-dropped-in-hi-ca/#ixzz7YzmG7iuf
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
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Say “Aloha” to a requirement in Hawaii that a concealed carry permit applicant “show…reason to fear injury to the applicant’s person or property” in order to obtain a concealed carry license, according to a detailed opinion from State Attorney General Holly T. Shikada to Gov. David Y. Ige following the June 23 Supreme Court ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen.
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I applaud your unwavering faith in the police of our state.
I pray they live up to it.
But I know they will fail you.
:wave:
It isn't faith, its just where I am drawing a line. If I were a betting man I would bet we don't get them issued within a month or close to it.
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Corruption doesn't mean you get paid. It can also mean you get to keep your job.
As for policies and procedures, they have been in place for years. How do you think they issued the other 4 permits over the last 20 years. HRS134-9 has the entire process and HPD has the forms to do it. If they are saying they need a procedure, they're full of shit.
Following that, I call bullshit on the need for a firearm to apply for a CCW permit. Nowhere in HRS134 or the ROH does it state that you can only have a specific firearm on the permit. Nowhere does it state you have to HAVE a firearm. People are going to go through a class or Hunters Ed and want to apply for a CCW and then go find a firearm they want to purchase. How many of us tried our friends or went and rented before we bought? A firearm is an investment. Shelling out $500 to $1500 for a firearm is not an easy thing for most people. It's the equivalent of having to go buy and register a car before you can get your Drivers License. What about people who come to work for just a couple of days every month (less than statutory 5 days for registration) but want to carry? I know several who do that as government contractors. If HPD can show in the HRS or the ROH where it states a specific firearm AND must be registered in Hawaii, then once again they are making up rules.
I must be missing something, did the chief say something about needing to own a firearm before applying for the CCW permit?
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I must be missing something, did the chief say something about needing to own a firearm before applying for the CCW permit?
HPD is asking for a hard copy of the registration
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I must be missing something, did the chief say something about needing to own a firearm before applying for the CCW permit?
According to the current CCW application, you have to already own and have a handgun registered in the state to be able to apply
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HPD is asking for a hard copy of the registration
Can confirm. I brought mine with me to apply on day 1 because I assumed they’d wanna see it and I was correct
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HPD is asking for a hard copy of the registration
Oh, strange. Nothing in the law states that the permit has to be tied to a particular pistol.
What if I am going to Ruth Chris but my CCW is only listed for my fast food joint pistol?
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According to the current CCW application, you have to already own and have a handgun registered in the state to be able to apply
It's (obviously) unconstitutional (i.e. illegal, an infringement) for any government agency or agent to dictate which, if any, legally-possessed arm(s) a person chooses to bear in the exercise of their fundamental, individual, Constitutionally-protected/enumerated, inalienable God-given/natural civil right to keep and bear arms. I told them so on my application. Please join me.
Also: "This application is for 1. concealed carry of handguns; 2. unconcealed carry of handguns; 3. unconcealed carry of smooth bore long guns; 4. unconcealed carry of rifled bore long guns."
Please don't freely allow their illegal boxed-in a priori application assumptions to dictate your assertion of your rights. Otherwise you are assenting to their diktat that bearing arms is a government granted privilege, not a right at all.
They're not going to grant the average person that privilege anyway. Not for a long time.
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Chief on the radio says permits should be issued in the next 30 days. Im still not holding my breath.
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Chief on the radio says permits should be issued in the next 30 days. Im still not holding my breath.
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They better be. Getting real sick of state entities people being able to hamper a lawful right that is constitutionally protected
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Chief on the radio says permits should be issued in the next 30 days. Im still not holding my breath.
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Could you provide a link to the audio of that statement or more detail on where we might search for it?
"Should be"? You mean like "could be unless issues like a, b, c... x, y, and z arise and cause a slight delay"?
Thanks.
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Watch what they DO, not what they say
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Could you provide a link to the audio of that statement or more detail on where we might search for it?
"Should be"? You mean like "could be unless issues like a, b, c... x, y, and z arise and cause a slight delay"?
Thanks.
Station KHVH. It takes the next day for the segment to be uploaded. I did not hear it, but I know a guy who did and is listening carefully.
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Watch what they DO, not what they say
^^^This is why I'm not 100% confident. Maybe still 50/50. "We lack the machines and supplies (ink, paper, etc...) to make the volume of permits and they are on back order due to the supply shortage"
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^^^This is why I'm not 100% confident. Maybe still 50/50. "We lack the machines and supplies (ink, paper, etc...) to make the volume of permits and they are on back order due to the supply shortage"
Nah, no worry brah. Garans you gettum by da end of summer.
But don't quote me because I am probably wrong.
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https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1061-rick-hamada-28867030/episode/ask-the-chief-71422-99402329/
The 4 county chiefs are talking because they have to be consistent.
Logan (Oahu/HPD) at latest will sign off on CCW permits at the end of August.
I do give him credit, at no time did he state the anti 2a stuff like Ige and other politicians.
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https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1061-rick-hamada-28867030/episode/ask-the-chief-71422-99402329/
The 4 county chiefs are talking because they have to be consistent.
Logan (Oahu/HPD) at latest will sign off on CCW permits at the end of August.
I do give him credit, at no time did he state the anti 2a stuff like Ige and other politicians.
Why would they have to be consistent? They are county officials, not state. They have always had different criteria for (not) issuing, including different application forms.
Not that it matters at all, but just seems curious, as it would have no basis in any (apparent) existing statutory requirement.
I will listen to the podcast later today... perhaps there is a clear explanation in there. haha.
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https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1061-rick-hamada-28867030/episode/ask-the-chief-71422-99402329/
The 4 county chiefs are talking because they have to be consistent.
Logan (Oahu/HPD) at latest will sign off on CCW permits at the end of August.
I do give him credit, at no time did he state the anti 2a stuff like Ige and other politicians.
Thanks for sharing the podcast. I’m currently listening. Logan seems to be well learned on how this stuff works and that he’s still learning, but he does seem to be less skewed of an opinion holder than most we’ve seen recently in Hawaii. He seems to be pretty genuine and I have not really heard anything showing an opinion of being anti-gun. Again, this is the first time I’m hearing him talk about this in detail. I’m hoping that he’s not just talking through his butt because he’s on air and in the lime light. I truly hope he’s sincere, and if he is, his words especially regarding CCW permits is just a tad more comforting. Lets hope he stays consistent and independent from the detrimental and negative opinions and actions of those who clearly don’t care about our rights/ wants that may or may not have some kind of “pull” in the state.
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Oh, strange. Nothing in the law states that the permit has to be tied to a particular pistol.
What if I am going to Ruth Chris but my CCW is only listed for my fast food joint pistol?
Ever try and pair a 1911 with boardshorts?
This is a great excuse to force us to run around with mouse guns.
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Why would they have to be consistent? They are county officials, not state. They have always had different criteria for (not) issuing, including different application forms.
Not that it matters at all, but just seems curious, as it would have no basis in any (apparent) existing statutory requirement.
I will listen to the podcast later today... perhaps there is a clear explanation in there. haha.
I'm gonna assume since HRS134-9 is state law, the other counties have to abide by that first. Then if they have a separate county ordinance (ROH), they will work on that by themselves. We saw this with Tasers and Maui. Taser law passed (HRS), but Maui consul had to meet to change their ordinance. They got served a lawsuit which is what caused them to finally work on it in May 2022. Even though Ige signed the bill in July 2021 and it took affect Jan 1st 2022. Their consul is super anti 2a. You should watch their meeting, it's on youtube.
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Ever try and pair a 1911 with boardshorts?
This is a great excuse to force us to run around with mouse guns.
Deagle.
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You can get different grip modules for a Sig p320 or Sig p365 or if you really want to test the limits you can apply with a Glock 19 and swap the slide for a Mechtech upper.
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People who don’t carry full size are just scared :closed: :shake: full size Glock and shorts and T-shirt for the sun 😵💫😵💫😵💫
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One of the issues there is that not every state uses their LE agencies the same. In some states, the cities have not incorporated the entire county, so while the city cops have jurisdiction inside city limits, the Sheriff has jurisdiction within the unincorporated county lands.
Also, most states have a state highway patrol. They have statewide jurisdiction, but will normally only be called in for local crimes if there's a conflict of jurisdictions or a cross-over to more than one. Otherwise, they stick to the state and federal highways.
Here, each island is part of a county, and the cops are supposed to enforce laws in the entire county. Sheriff is organizationally part of the department of safety, and they are tasked with security at airports, courthouses, etc. You won't see a Sheriff's Deputy being asked to respond to a 911 call ordinarily.
Having said that, Cops are usually pro-gun control because it can make their own jobs safer. While the laws do nothing to stop criminals, the law-abiding man or woman interacting with a Cop will be unlikely to have a firearm in their car or holstered.
I'm not as sure the Chief is anti-2A, or if his on-the-job safety is being placed above the Constitutional rights of the people he serves.
Conflict of interest more than a political or personal position against the 2A.
I can easily name ten jobs that are more dangerous than being a cop.
The only hard thing about being a cop is being polite to Democrats.
AND ignoring your moral ethics to get revenue for the state.
>:D
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The four county Chiefs are talking?
Is that not by definition collusion.
Keeping their stories straight?
Just thoughts
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The four county Chiefs are talking?
Is that not by definition collusion.
Keeping their stories straight?
Just thoughts
Definitely could be the case but I'm hoping it's more of a constructive talk, making sure there is a standard protocol moving forward in incorporating the SCOTUS decision.
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https://youtu.be/fC8O14ZbtlY
Something’s said about the Young case
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Finally SOMEONE exposes Hawaii on a massive public site 🥴😂😂😂
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Ever try and pair a 1911 with boardshorts?
This is a great excuse to force us to run around with mouse guns.
Have to go with the mini size 1911 to effectively fit it between the cheeks to keep it sealed off from water when swimming
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Don’t know if this is the right thread but I’ll post this anyways
https://youtu.be/OszaE5gLMG8
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Don’t know if this is the right thread but I’ll post this anyways
https://youtu.be/OszaE5gLMG8
Yes, let’s just go ahead and base our argument off of speculation without any facts. Democrats are walking double standards and oxymorons. Nerds.