2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vbc on January 23, 2023, 10:47:52 AM
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Any updated info? When will it open?
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Any updated info? When will it open?
not any time soon
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https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
I'll summarize it. they don't know when its going to reopen. they still sitting around with their thumbs up their butts
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Hawaii has made "drag a$$" an art form.
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Hawaii has made "drag a$$" an art form.
It is what we have come to expect from our State and Politicians.
What a shame. Nobody is surprised anymore :grrr:
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Hawaii has made "drag a$$" an art form.
IT's more than an art form, Taxes going up this year for the privilege. It's a Major League profession.
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Thought folks might be interested in this...
Seems nobody was action level hot for high lead.
Excerpted from Hawaii Kai Neighborhood board November minutes
Shooting Range: Thielen gave an update on the status of the Koko Head shooting range closure. FAQ’s about the closure of the shooting range are posted on the DPR website. None of the shooting range employees tested at or beyond the OSHA limits for lead contamination but the facility has been closed out of an abundance of caution. DPR is consulting with an expert to evaluate the shooting range. OSHA has visited the range to check on records and DOH has scheduled a visit to the site as well.
So we wait
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Thought folks might be interested in this...
Seems nobody was action level hot for high lead.
Excerpted from Hawaii Kai Neighborhood board November minutes
Shooting Range: Thielen gave an update on the status of the Koko Head shooting range closure. FAQ’s about the closure of the shooting range are posted on the DPR website. None of the shooting range employees tested at or beyond the OSHA limits for lead contamination but the facility has been closed out of an abundance of caution. DPR is consulting with an expert to evaluate the shooting range. OSHA has visited the range to check on records and DOH has scheduled a visit to the site as well.
So we wait
in other words there was no reason to close the range but they did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE
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Anything new? They had their meetings and recommendations provided by the consultant in early Dec. what’s the timeline? They can’t fix everything at one time and supposedly they were going to table the larger items and incorporate them into the budget. I heard there were relatively minor changes that could be implemented to get the range running. What’s the delay?
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It's "their" way of saying " 2a community, we still got the hammer over you".
And if "we" drag our a$$es, too bad. Cry me a river.
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Blah blah blah
Excuses excuses
Still not open
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WE decide IF and WHEN you can exercise your "2a rights" smirk....smirk.....
This is essentially what the Hawaii Banana Republik and its "leadership" is telling us.
"You will never, ever, be totally free....."
Boo waha ha ha ha.........(evil laugh) :rofl:
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in other words there was no reason to close the range but they did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE
Yup...This wouldn't have even caused a a hiccup in industry.
Maybe the guys would have been told to put on a respirator.
They were clearly looking for any excuse at all.
Thielen just let it out of the bag.
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I am pretty sure that no cats are allowed in our prisons but I am just wondering if there are any prisons on the planet that do.
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in other words there was no reason to close the range but they did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE
https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
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You Oahu guys should start a pool for the opening date,
Including a choice for "never".
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Here’s what I heard…the range will need to have the lead remediation done and I believe they’ll add the top soil. They’ll also need to take the wall down between pistol and rifle side. I believe they’ll need to install hand washing stations and open the pistol side wall up for air flow. Seems like a longer project then estimated.
Not looking good for the skeet and metal silhouette ranges. There’s much to be done there and I don’t think both of those are priority. I hope all the LGS can hang in.
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Here’s what I heard…the range will need to have the lead remediation done and I believe they’ll add the top soil. They’ll also need to take the wall down between pistol and rifle side. I believe they’ll need to install hand washing stations and open the pistol side wall up for air flow. Seems like a longer project then estimated.
Not looking good for the skeet and metal silhouette ranges. There’s much to be done there and I don’t think both of those are priority. I hope all the LGS can hang in.
For the divider, any idea if the City (or consultant, or someone else) deemed it a safety hazard? That thing was looking sketch for a while. am surprised they didn't have bracing installed a while ago. I bet that "project" will end up taking a while, since EPA will likely require the wall material be sampled/tested. Going through similar in my "day job".
Thank you for the update. Hopefully we'll see progress soon. . .
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For the divider, any idea if the City (or consultant, or someone else) deemed it a safety hazard? That thing was looking sketch for a while. am surprised they didn't have bracing installed a while ago. I bet that "project" will end up taking a while, since EPA will likely require the wall material be sampled/tested. Going through similar in my "day job".
Thank you for the update. Hopefully we'll see progress soon. . .
It's not only it's bad condition, rather the wall is a ricochet hazard too. Bullets striking a steel plate or something solid downrange could be reflected off the wall back to the firing line. Dirt berms are used to catch the bullets on the sides.
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It's not only it's bad condition, rather the wall is a ricochet hazard too. Bullets striking a steel plate or something solid downrange could be reflected off the wall back to the firing line. Dirt berms are used to catch the bullets on the sides.
but i so enjoyed walking down to my rifle target while the pistol range was still hot and hearing the ricochets in my earpro!
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any updates?
meanwhile, people still getting hurt and rescued
https://www.khon2.com/water-and-land-rescues/injured-hiker-rescued-on-koko-head-trail/ (https://www.khon2.com/water-and-land-rescues/injured-hiker-rescued-on-koko-head-trail/)
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From City
https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
Updated January 12, 2023
1. When is KHSC scheduled to reopen?
The Koko Head Shooting Complex is scheduled to remain closed through February 2023.
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Anyone know what the age limits are at the private ranges? My kids were itching to hit the range once they turned 9 but then all this nonsense happened.
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Anyone know what the age limits are at the private ranges? My kids were itching to hit the range once they turned 9 but then all this nonsense happened.
For Xring Security I believe it’s 13yrs old min. For 808 it might be 12 yrs old…you can call to check.
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With the entrance closed at KHSC, what is the status of the archery range, i.e., why is that still not being used?
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Was watching the news this morning (KITV) and they are saying that the C&C will be putting out an update early next week….betcha they will say the range will be closed until further notice….. :wacko:
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Was watching the news this morning (KITV) and they are saying that the C&C will be putting out an update early next week….betcha they will say the range will be closed until further notice….. :wacko:
My guess going be opposite. Not only is there a need for swat, sheriffs, etc, hunters need to zero rifles. Plenty pressure on the city. If not they know shooters will find a way.
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Closed through march
Blah blah blah still closed
Blowing more hot air up our ass
It will be same old shit
I'm not holding my breath
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Closed through march
Blah blah blah still closed
Blowing more hot air up our ass
It will be same old shit
I'm not holding my breath
When it comes to fingers in their noses and heads up their a$$'s Hawaii's leaders take the cake.
Yeah, if the entire 2a community held their breath, we would all be dead now. Maybe that's what they're waiting for.
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Next comm was previously stated to be the detailed timeline for reopening, so its gonna be that.
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https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
caught the live broadcast with thielen
1. pistol/rifle reopening march/april
2. pistol/rifle dividing wall will be removed, pistol/rifle range will operate as a single range
3. skeet/trap/silhouette tbd
4. hpd/action bays, possible improvements to be paid for by hpd?
5. possibly switching skeet/trap to non-lead
6. major improvements funding still in budget request
7. previously reported "high levels" were below actionable levels
there was heavy equipment in the background and what looked like new dirt on the pistol berm, and a dude in a hazmat suit with a water hose watering the new berm material.
:shaka:
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i made a separate post with the press release
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i made a separate post with the press release
there was more discussed in the live broadcast than there is on the website. feel free to repost my notes in the other thread
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/02/13/live-city-offer-update-months-long-closure-oahus-only-public-shooting-range/
Partial reopening aimed for March. But given the rate in which the state does construction...
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I'm staying hopeful that it does come to fruition that it opens this year, let alone next month in March.
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Honestly happy they are dealing with this. Blows my mind how many people don't care about the high levels of lead that come with shooting frequently. Like they shoot at the range for hours, don't even use lead removing soap, and just go home to their kids and stuff. One time I was at the range and someone on the bench next to me busted out a sandwich to eat right after he was done shooting... offered him some lead removal wipes and he laughed and said he's good. Straight up just ingesting lead lmao.
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[quote
2. pistol/rifle dividing wall will be removed, pistol/rifle range will operate as a single range
Do you think this means there will still be a pistol and rifle "sides" or will people be able to shoot both pistols and rifles from one stall?
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Do you think this means there will still be a pistol and rifle "sides" or will people be able to shoot both pistols and rifles from one stall?
From what I heard there will be two sides. But both will operate on same cease fire. I think I heard that the wall will eventually be replaced.
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I heard after all mods it’ll be one open rifle/pistol range. Imagine shooting and the pistol clubs have a match? It’ll be a slow…slow day.
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I wish they would just hurry the hell up!!!!!!
we been waiting 6 months already
so much BS :grrr: :grrr:
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I wish they would just hurry the hell up!!!!!!
we been waiting 6 months already
so much BS :grrr: :grrr:
I agree. I really believe the range could have opened sooner. Now with this weather it will take longer I'd bet.
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I heard after all mods it’ll be one open rifle/pistol range. Imagine shooting and the pistol clubs have a match? It’ll be a slow…slow day.
I just watched the video again on the press conference they had a couple of weeks ago. It’s mentioned that they plan to operate as one range until they can do construction on a new wall.
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I agree. I really believe the range could have opened sooner. Now with this weather it will take longer I'd bet.
knowing our C&C, that would be a pretty safe bet
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I just watched the video again on the press conference they had a couple of weeks ago. It’s mentioned that they plan to operate as one range until they can do construction on a new wall.
Then it’ll close for 9 months to build a wall.
Why aren’t they building the wall concurrent with the berm work ?
With the equipment they have on-site wall should be two three weeks.
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Then it’ll close for 9 months to build a wall.
Why aren’t they building the wall concurrent with the berm work ?
With the equipment they have on-site wall should be two three weeks.
That makes too much sense for the City of Honolulu. They need to have a contract out made to some politically connected contractor to build "a wall".
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Then it’ll close for 9 months to build a wall.
Why aren’t they building the wall concurrent with the berm work ?
With the equipment they have on-site wall should be two three weeks.
From what was said in the interview it seemed like they need to do a capital improvement project and get funds allocated. There were some funds set aside for berm remediation but I think they're using that to add material to the berm and do the simple short term fixes to get the range opened.
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I agree. I really believe the range could have opened sooner. Now with this weather it will take longer I'd bet.
lets not forget that the workers had elevated levels. regardless of the politics, I think the shutdown and improvements will be a good thing in the long run. also dont forget about the ricochet incident(s).
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Wish we had the same sentiment about the legal range.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/03/02/air-rescues-down-nearly-50-koko-crater-trail-following-repairs-by-volunteers/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/03/02/air-rescues-down-nearly-50-koko-crater-trail-following-repairs-by-volunteers/)
“The answer isn’t always shutting things down,” said Lena Haapala with the Kokonut Koalition. “It’s bringing people together, and we all know this is a volunteer, and we were just determined to get it done and make it safe and keep it open, and that’s what we did.”
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Then it’ll close for 9 months to build a wall.
Why aren’t they building the wall concurrent with the berm work ?
With the equipment they have on-site wall should be two three weeks.
When I was still working (construction) I have seen unbelievable things as to what a professional masonry contractor can do as far as building a cement block wall.
They can build it fast. Very fast with no compromise in quality and workmanship.
But yeah. Nobody seems to be in a hurry to take care of the 2a community down there.
To me it almost seems like our government is sending a subliminal message:
"We (government) hold the hammer.....not you (the people)."
So you people just shut up and continue to follow in lockstep......
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A solid grouted masonry wall the height of the existing (or previous wall) should not take more than a week. Even if they poured the grout in three lifts (say 4 to 6 feet per lift). However, if the "experts" determined that the foundation or subgrade (material below the footing) is the issue, then that may take a while longer. Used to design and do inspections for those things in a former life, so not sure what is current.
I noticed the wall was tilted and cracks seems to get worse here and there. A$$umed it was due to ground settlement, or at least it looked like it.
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My 2 to 3 weeks included footing excavation, re-pour, stack ‘em and grout ‘em.
Excavation might takes couple days because I assume they’re retaining.
But with the heavy equipment they’re using and have parked on site, should be fast.
And they’re bringing in dirt so back fill should easy.
Especially if they’re knocking it down anyway.
I don’t know about the engineering of the thing. They’ll probably require a geotechnical stamp for a wall because that’s how the City rolls.
Drck would know better though. :thumbsup:
Or are they that dumb that they’re gonna leave the compromised wall standing and just sync up rifle and pistol sides ?
And it’s a later project, closure.
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That makes too much sense for the City of Honolulu. They need to have a contract out made to some politically connected contractor to build "a wall".
Don't forget plans and engineering. It has lasted like it is for HOW? many years, but we gotta completely redesign it and study it , then build it "better".
Can't just make it the same.
Perpetuate the bureaucracy.
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During the press release Laura Thielan said engineering could take 1yr, permitting w/ environmental impact 1-2 yrs…she said they anticipate construction maybe 5 yrs out. Not anytime soon. The wall definitely has settling and they need to rip everything out and redo the footing.
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Unreal.
Where’s that facepalm emoji.
For a wall ?!
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Unreal.
Where’s that facepalm emoji.
For a wall ?!
As I said we gotta perpetuate the bureaucracy.
Never mind it probably been there for 50 years.
Build it just like it was, would last another 50.
Just a hollow tile wall.
Incredible
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Hate to hi-jack but does anyone know how many yards the rifle side is, I have not been there since 2014 and I cannot remember. I am trying to figure out if a red dot will suffice or if I should invest more in a lpvo for my rifle.
Thanks :shaka:
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50 & 100yds
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During the press release Laura Thielan said engineering could take 1yr, permitting w/ environmental impact 1-2 yrs…she said they anticipate construction maybe 5 yrs out. Not anytime soon. The wall definitely has settling and they need to rip everything out and redo the footing.
Bureaucracy at it's finest. Hawaii takes the crown.
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50 & 100yds
Thank you
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Wonder what the EIS is for, they building something new? Maybe baffles?
Another reason why it may take long is to request Pittman Robertson federal grants to pay for the construction and planning.
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I have no skin here. I don't shoot there, but I'll say it again, your range will not re-open.
:grrr:
Democrats are the enemy.
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I have no skin here. I don't shoot there, but I'll say it again, your range will not re-open.
:grrr:
Democrats are the enemy.
thank you Dilbert
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I have no skin here. I don't shoot there, but I'll say it again, your range will not re-open.
:grrr:
Democrats are the enemy.
Sorry beg to differ. It is because the democrats/government that the range will open . They would love to close it but financially they can’t afford to clean the site and return it to Bishop in its original condition. Would be in the millions to completely remove lead & structures from all the areas.
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I have no skin here. I don't shoot there, but I'll say it again, your range will not re-open.
:grrr:
Democrats are the enemy.
LOL who kicked your dog or cat?
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thank you Dilbert
Thanks for the complement!
:geekdanc:
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Sorry beg to differ. It is because the democrats/government that the range will open . They would love to close it but financially they can’t afford to clean the site and return it to Bishop in its original condition. Would be in the millions to completely remove lead & structures from all the areas.
I hope you are correct. Y'all need a safe place to practice and shoot.
BI will never get such a facility, but we make do.
:thumbsup:
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LOL who kicked your dog or cat?
Hawaii Democrats.
Kicked my cattle, fowl, and equine stock also.
:grrr:
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I hope you are correct. Y'all need a safe place to practice and shoot.
BI will never get such a facility, but we make do.
In a manner of speaking, that seems like it varies widely.
Your own property, out of state, local garbage ??
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Anybody can speculate how they will operate the pistol and rifle firing sequences simultaneously?
Usually before claiming firing line is either hot or cold they visually check up and down the line.
Would they be able to see the pistol side clearly?
I believe the end of the pistol facility is walled off.......cannot see rifle side and vice versa.
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Anybody can speculate how they will operate the pistol and rifle firing sequences simultaneously?
Usually before claiming firing line is either hot or cold they visually check up and down the line.
Would they be able to see the pistol side clearly?
I believe the end of the pistol facility is walled off.......cannot see rifle side and vice versa.
Telephones, loudspeakers, texting.
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Maybe like Clark County range, booth moved to center, so he can R.O.'s can see both sides. If concrete wall taken down no problem.
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Maybe like Clark County range, booth moved to center, so he can R.O.'s can see both sides. If concrete wall taken down no problem.
great idea, lets fly in a specialist to tell us how to do it, and then we can get the EIS started and in about 14 years we should be able to start construction on the booth.
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Maybe like Clark County range, booth moved to center, so he can R.O.'s can see both sides. If concrete wall taken down no problem.
I've been to several ranges on the mainland that use closed circuit TV cameras to monitor the firing line. Not only lets the range monitors stay safe, they see every single shooting station at once. That also offers recording for legal and insurance purposes.
Of course, these had target systems that don't require walking into the target area -- electronic/mechanical target tracks. No mass cease fires are called, because there's no need unless there's a problem. Add a better target setup and retrieval system at KHSC, and so many other safety and management problems disappear.
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If an EIS is determined to be needed, I would like to see what the action proponent’s position is. I am a$$uming that is either C&C or the State. EIS will be hundreds of thousands of dollars for essentially the same impact as previous use.
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Of course, these had target systems that don't require walking into the target area -- electronic/mechanical target tracks.
In your dreams, the democrat government wants you to give up and go away.
KHSC is an irritant they would like to get rid of.
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In your dreams, the democrat government wants you to give up and go away.
KHSC is an irritant they would like to get rid of.
Not saying possible or not. Just that the problems being discussed are not intrinsic to all ranges -- indoor or outdoor.
Like Judge Marilyn liked to say, "Sometimes the cheap comes out expensive." Most rational people who experienced "Buy once, cry once" get it. Making a few improvements to eliminate the target placement process necessarily eliminates half a dozen safety issues that no longer need solving.
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Pistol side target holder frame has been repaired. Pistol, rifle dividing wall has been cut down.
Work is being done with City and County workers.
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Pistol side target holder frame has been repaired. Pistol, rifle dividing wall has been cut down.
Work is being done with City and County workers.
will we not be required to bring our own frames in the future?
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will we not be required to bring our own frames in the future?
that's not what he said...
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that's not what he said...
Never said that is what he said, I asked a question.
He did state pistol side target holder frame will be repaired.
Just thought it was a new feature as I have not kept myself updated on the rejuvenation of the koko head shooting range project.
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will we not be required to bring our own frames in the future?
Instead of "target holder frame", he probably meant "target frame holder" -- the brackets you insert the legs of your wooden frame in.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure he'll eventually let us know.
:shaka:
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The target frame holders on the pistol side were all corroded and rusty. Some of them had broken off. I remember going out to put up my frame and the RO came running after me to lend me some spring clamps so I can clamp the frame to the holder.
After that I always made sure there were spring clamps in my range bag.
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Ahh, yea it's been awhile almost 9 years since I was there last. I used to shoot on MCBH where they provided everything. Even ammunition and you could use their pistols M9 Beretta.
so I thought I should still ask since someone brought up frames.
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Wall gone
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Wall gone
I guess you aren't referring to the US-Mexico border.
Or are you?
:geekdanc:
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Wall gone
Sheesh, took long enough
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Sheesh, took long enough
Yep. I hear you. Now watch how long it takes to build another one.
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Is April still the projected date? Or behind schedule? Lol
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So over/under. Before rails first voyage or not.
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before
So over/under. Before rails first voyage or not.
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Are we talking about the wall that separates pistol from rifle? I though the plan was to get rid of it and make the whole thing one line.
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https://www.khon2.com/local-news/koko-head-archery-range-re-opening-friday/
Officials said the following improvement efforts have started or are close to completion:
The majority of the berm/backstop renovations (schedule impacted by heavy rains)
Masonry work on the range walls, pathways, and steps
Eyebrow/overhang replacement and fortification
Roofing repairs
Painting and upgrading shooting gallery amenities
Fencing along the backside of the mauka ranges
Landscaping and grounds maintenance
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soda machine work?
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soda machine work?
Who cares, got landscaping!!!
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What are these amenities?
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What are these amenities?
They probably used some extra paint on the benches behind the firing line.
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get TP?
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I hope with all of these "improvements" the City doesn't forget the initial reason the place was shut down in the first place.
It wasn't because the roof needed repair.
I'm sure landscaping was farthest from everyone's minds.
Sure, paint was needed here and there but that's no reason to shut the damn place down.
In fact all of the above could have been done on Mondays and Tuesdays, the days when the range is closed.
Before they run out of money doing stupid stuff I hope they remember to install washing facilities.
I mean, wasn't lead contamination the primary reason for the shut down? Or was it the so called ricochets?
Or was all of this just plain bullcrap.
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I hope with all of these "improvements" the City doesn't forget the initial reason the place was shut down in the first place.
It wasn't because the roof needed repair.
I'm sure landscaping was farthest from everyone's minds.
Sure, paint was needed here and there but that's no reason to shut the damn place down.
In fact all of the above could have been done on Mondays and Tuesdays, the days when the range is closed.
Before they run out of money doing stupid stuff I hope they remember to install washing facilities.
I mean, wasn't lead contamination the primary reason for the shut down? Or was it the so called ricochets?
Or was all of this just plain bullcrap.
das Y need moar TP!
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https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579%3Akoko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182%3Asite-dpr-cat&fbclid=IwAR2i79D1TOrULUZ3HGCfD_544wq2IDnZ35FZkLmgRrJ2yHh_IyZiZ24mE0Q
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Need TP…for my Bung Hole.
What’s the fencing about ?
Keep the chickens in ?
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I hope with all of these "improvements" the City doesn't forget the initial reason the place was shut down in the first place.
It wasn't because the roof needed repair.
I'm sure landscaping was farthest from everyone's minds.
Sure, paint was needed here and there but that's no reason to shut the damn place down.
In fact all of the above could have been done on Mondays and Tuesdays, the days when the range is closed.
Before they run out of money doing stupid stuff I hope they remember to install washing facilities.
I mean, wasn't lead contamination the primary reason for the shut down? Or was it the so called ricochets?
Or was all of this just plain bullcrap.
I'll take Bullcrap for a hundred, Alex
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It would have been open sooner if it were not for nutsen making trouble
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230326/5af73595369edf182ec726ea627b5181.jpg)
Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk
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Update pics of the range
(https://i.imgur.com/Z5TaSqL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GseEt91.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6Qth1to.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tXzsRH8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DrgPGJx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sW5Sj5r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JbRGvzL.jpg)
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Silhouette side will open same time?
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Silhouette side will open same time?
no
in my opinion, they are going to have a tough time reopening the silly side
no berm, and design work would be needed to make one...
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no
in my opinion, they are going to have a tough time reopening the silly side
no berm, and design work would be needed to make one...
Along with the berm, they should move the steel back especially if they’re worried about ricochets. The R/Os on the silhouette side showed me all the samples of bullet fragments that came back. Crazy Doesn’t sound safe.
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Along with the berm, they should move the steel back especially if they’re worried about ricochets. The R/Os on the silhouette side showed me all the samples of bullet fragments that came back. Crazy Doesn’t sound safe.
Depends on what's coming back, how large are the pieces and how fast is it moving. If it's not enough to break skin, then not an issue, just make sure everyone is wearing glasses.
If it is an issue then they could restrict distances by caliber or adjusting the target spacing.
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no
in my opinion, they are going to have a tough time reopening the silly side
no berm, and design work would be needed to make one...
There's ways to get it in compliance. There should be a backstop behind each line of targets.
(https://waiukupistolclub.org.nz/UFimage/shots2016_01_037_WPC.jpg)
I think what happened to KHSC was feature creep beyond it's designed purpose which led it to becoming out of compliance.
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it looks so tidy
can't wait to go shoot it up
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How would they address ricochets? After all that’s what prompted the change to 22lr on the rifle side. It’s a known fact that they have ricochets on the silhouette side. Eye protection at all times is a must. Looks like much to consider with berms for each distance.
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no
in my opinion, they are going to have a tough time reopening the silly side
no berm, and design work would be needed to make one...
That SUCKS !
Be ready for overflow at HDF open shoots.
Fundraiser though. :thumbsup:
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How would they address ricochets? After all that’s what prompted the change to 22lr on the rifle side. It’s a known fact that they have ricochets on the silhouette side. Eye protection at all times is a must. Looks like much to consider with berms for each distance.
That's a whole different discussion than just cleaning up the lead and making it safer for the staff to work there.
If the metal plates are of sufficient hardness, like AR500 steel, most of the bullet typically liquifies on impact. If the harder core of the bullet remains solid, it can become spalling, or fragments, which can be deflected in every possible direction. That's why KHSC required plates you bring to be suspended so the plate angles downward directing the fragments toward the ground for the most part. The plate's movement also absorbs the energy that could be transferred to a ricochet.
Most ranges I've used on the mainland don't allow steel core ammo which can create a ricochet risk for shooters whether using steel targets or just on the pistol range.
Switching to .22lr if anything can potentially increase the risk of ricochets since the bullet has less energy than larger calibers. Less energy means less force available to destroy the round on impact.
So many variables. The only constant is that there will always be risks when shooting steel.
I've yet to see Hickok45 get hit by a ricochet, and he shoots steel a lot using very few, if any, .22 caliber firearms. And he puts a ton of lead downrange.
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There's ways to get it in compliance. There should be a backstop behind each line of targets.
(https://waiukupistolclub.org.nz/UFimage/shots2016_01_037_WPC.jpg)
I think what happened to KHSC was feature creep beyond it's designed purpose which led it to becoming out of compliance.
iirc, there is a berm behind the 75m and part of the 100m line. The 50m line, none
Just make a berm. Too easy. Should've been done by now. Not difficult
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I've been shooting silhouette side almost weekly for years, not once was there ever a case of ricochet back to the line of fire. All my ammo when it hits the steel goes splat! Into a thousand pieces into the ground below the target. Slow moving 45acp just flattens and drops right there
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Isn't the club that operates the silhouette range responsible for improvements? I thought that was the agreement and part of their range fees.
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What is with the trench on the pistol range?
Grenade practice?
WWI reenactments?
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What's with all the "what if's" at the range all of a sudden? Years and years have gone by, and no improvements have been made except to the roof ( :rofl:) and eyebrow of the roof.
Now all of a sudden berms gotta be this and that, walls gotta be re-constructed, and heaven forbid....landscaping. Gotta have landscaping. What were we thinking. :rofl:
I going laugh and sh*t my pants if they ever open the range and there are no new wash facilities near the firing line. And one toilet each for men and women. And none for the LGBQT EL O MENO PEE.
Oh I forgot. Those things use either one. Depending on their mood of the day.
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What is with the trench on the pistol range?
Grenade practice?
WWI reenactments?
Civil war training? ;)
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Think silhouette range is in the same situation as action bays
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you've studied range design
that's not how it works...
Depends on what's coming back, how large are the pieces and how fast is it moving. If it's not enough to break skin, then not an issue, just make sure everyone is wearing glasses.
If it is an issue then they could restrict distances by caliber or adjusting the target spacing.
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Think silhouette range is in the same situation as action bays
the bays have a hill behind them
but in terms of certification and "proof" of safety, yeah...
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Safety improvements
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What is with the trench on the pistol range?
Grenade practice?
WWI reenactments?
to protect the target holders
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I guess if I want to shoot steel with my handguns, I'll have to put the scope back on my Ruger SBH Hunter, or use my Mark IV with green dot
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They built a chain link fence around the range to keep the chickens out....or in.
I dunno which.
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News Flash !
PETA closes silhouette side delaying opening of KHSC
(https://waiukupistolclub.org.nz/UFimage/shots2016_01_037_WPC.jpg)
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Save the chickens!
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Save the chickens!
The City might start fitting them with hearing aids and ear pros. A lot of them were walking around clucking "PUH KAAACK!!" (chicken speak meaning WHAT??!!" ;D
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Heard that when range reopens that rifle range will only be shot at 100yds. No targets at 50yd. line.
No metal targets will be allowed.
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Heard that when range reopens that rifle range will only be shot at 100yds. No targets at 50yd. line.
No metal targets will be allowed.
How silly and utterly stupid.
But not surprising at all.
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Heard that when range reopens that rifle range will only be shot at 100yds. No targets at 50yd. line.
No metal targets will be allowed.
I didn’t see a berm at 50yds in the pictures so kinda makes sense to close the 50yd. Hope they eventually put one up. No steel target for the rifle range doesn’t look good for the silly side. They should convert that to 50yd paper target range.
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Silouette side would still need to have berms behind targets metal or paper.
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I didn’t see a berm at 50yds in the pictures so kinda makes sense to close the 50yd. Hope they eventually put one up. No steel target for the rifle range doesn’t look good for the silly side. They should convert that to 50yd paper target range.
the rifle range is designed and "certified" for 100 yards only
similarly, the pistol range is at 25 and 50
i fear for the other ranges...
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What ???? !!!
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Pistol and rifle will open just Saturday and Sunday and no holidays for now
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Why aren't they opening on weekdays like they used to. WTF.
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Pistol and rifle will open just Saturday and Sunday and no holidays for now
Dang that sucks! Where is this published?
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When are they going to reopen?
Jones
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AFAIK, not published yet
but there was a meeting this week, and details were discussed
there are a few people on this thread that are privy to that info, but i don't think anything is concrete yet
everything posted so far is what was discussed and not made up or conjecture...
Dang that sucks! Where is this published?
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I hear that projected re-opening is projected end of April. Silhouette, rifle, pistol. Not written in stone
Also hear they like shut down the action bays to clean up the lead and may not allow lead bullets there
Don't quote me on this
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Saturday, Sunday 8 to 4.
Week days closed for now. Schedule may be subject to change.
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When are they going to reopen?
Jones
I drove in today. They were painting the rifle area, and trucks were laying dirt in the rifle area. couldn't see what was happening at the silhouette side, but dump trucks were driving out from there
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Nothing yet on Silhouette side.
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Zero on an AK is 50 yards-ish.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/QEbWW0Uyqe1C1LauqbsgFaT8bKy4NzGGb6USKXOmpds/rs:fit:480:343:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS5naXBoeS5jb20v/bWVkaWEvQ2kzbkNW/eDk1MmxmRy9naXBo/eS5naWY.gif)
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My preferred zero on ARs is 50 yards :(
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What's the problem with 50 yds as it was? Because there is no berm? Danger of ricochets?
This is bullcrap.
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What's the problem with 50 yds as it was? Because there is no berm? Danger of ricochets?
This is bullcrap.
Prob mainly because it's not on the official range certification document. I've seen a lot of ranges with variable target distances relative to "the berm".
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No berm at 50 yds…the berm Supposed to stop the bullets and help in the reclamation of lead. If that’s the reason to discontinue the 50 yd rifle targets then I can’t see the silhouette side opening up.
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No berm at 50 yds…the berm Supposed to stop the bullets and help in the reclamation of lead. If that’s the reason to discontinue the 50 yd rifle targets then I can’t see the silhouette side opening up.
Yup and I understand the “logic” C&C is trying to apply. However, there are lead trap technology that can be employed for the berm and rest of the range. Used often in range design, particularly for .mil ranges.
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My preferred zero on ARs is 50 yards :(
@drck1000
KR-4 is perfect for you, max target distance of 80yds. there you go! :geekdanc:
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@drck1000
KR-4 is perfect for you, max target distance of 80yds. there you go! :geekdanc:
Yup. Thankfully I rarely shoot my ARs on paper these days. I recently stocked up on some primers and powder. Work schedule should be better soon and get out there and shooting again. :shaka:
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My understanding is that DPR is following consultants recommendations.
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https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=48754.msg449094#msg449094
focus
What's the problem with 50 yds as it was? Because there is no berm? Danger of ricochets?
This is bullcrap.
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For those wanting to zero at 50 yds…
Just set up your target at 100 yds, and when they go hot, walk up to where the 50 yd target stands used to be and fire away. Problem solved! :thumbsup:
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the rifle range is designed and "certified" for 100 yards only
similarly, the pistol range is at 25 and 50
i fear for the other ranges...
So I guess "they" going rip out all those pipes in the ground that hold the target frames at 50 yds. How da hell did they get there in the first place? It doesn't look like they were randomly placed by unknowing people.
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i would bet they are already removed
just because they were installed doesn't mean it was designed and certified for that distance
the design parameters are what the city has to fall back on
if anything happens due to the range being used outside it's desing, the city becomes liable
thus my statement about fearing for the other areas of the range...
So I guess "they" going rip out all those pipes in the ground that hold the target frames at 50 yds. How da hell did they get there in the first place? It doesn't look like they were randomly placed by unknowing people.
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For those wanting to zero at 50 yds…
Just set up your target at 100 yds, and when they go hot, walk up to where the 50 yd target stands used to be and fire away. Problem solved! :thumbsup:
Don't do that
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Zero on an AK is 50 yards-ish.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/QEbWW0Uyqe1C1LauqbsgFaT8bKy4NzGGb6USKXOmpds/rs:fit:480:343:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS5naXBoeS5jb20v/bWVkaWEvQ2kzbkNW/eDk1MmxmRy9naXBo/eS5naWY.gif)
Use the official way to zero an AK - 100 yds is close enough to 100m.
https://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/2015/02/zeroing-ak-rifle/ (https://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/2015/02/zeroing-ak-rifle/)
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Saturday, Sunday 8 to 4.
Week days closed for now. Schedule may be subject to change.
And you got to sign in in person in the morning for a time slot later that day.
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My preferred zero on ARs is 50 yards :(
If I had an AR, I would use this. . .
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnkWJK0x/AR-Zero0001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnkWJK0x)
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And you got to sign in in person in the morning for a time slot later that day.
I hope they open weekdays soon. Even on weekdays, on certain days by 11:30 all tables are taken before the first session at 12:00.
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I hope they open weekdays soon. Even on weekdays, on certain days by 11:30 all tables are taken before the first session at 12:00.
Might not be as crowded with the new rules. Must be present to sign in. No more reserving tables for friends. Only 3 relays per time slot so people would be coming and going. Maybe they’ll reconsider some of the discussed rules.
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Might not be as crowded with the new rules. Must be present to sign in. No more reserving tables for friends. Only 3 relays per time slot so people would be coming and going. Maybe they’ll reconsider some of the discussed rules.
3 relays? Would that be 2 hours at a bench or hour and a 1/2 at a time?
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I guess you could still shoot at 50 yards and be in compliance. Just get a 15' high target stand so your shots go into the 100 yard backstop.
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it's a park, right? Bring the bbq and podagee horseshoes. Turn it into a party every weekend.
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Might not be as crowded with the new rules. Must be present to sign in. No more reserving tables for friends. Only 3 relays per time slot so people would be coming and going. Maybe they’ll reconsider some of the discussed rules.
Would be nice if somehow they can open all the benches. Every time I go they chain off the end opposite the pistol range.
That would help.
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Would be nice if somehow they can open all the benches. Every time I go they chain off the end opposite the pistol range.
That would help.
Good idea QS.
Maybe a berm can be added to the 50 meter line, on the unused far right of the rifle range, or the left, or center of the rifle range..
Use of the 50 meter line can speed up the zeroing in process and allow more shooters to use the range. Just a thought..
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If I had an AR, I would use this. . .
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnkWJK0x/AR-Zero0001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnkWJK0x)
no human silhouettes
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So they expect everyone to arrive before 7AM, queue up, and then sign up for a time slot? No way I'm driving from the west side all the way to Kokohead at the buttcrack of dawn and then potentially have to come back hours later for my assigned time.
This isn't a bug in their strategy plan, its a feature. >:(
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So they expect everyone to arrive before 7AM, queue up, and then sign up for a time slot? No way I'm driving from the west side all the way to Kokohead at the buttcrack of dawn and then potentially have to come back hours later for my assigned time.
This isn't a bug in their strategy plan, its a feature. >:(
I think you can sign up anytime after 7. If you arrive after 10, and the next opening is at 1:00, you can leave and return in time to make the 1:00 slot.
I think this is an improvement over the old system. Before, if you showed up at 10 and there's a waiting list, you put you name on it when you arrive and hang around until it's your turn.
If the wait is relatively long, you could be at the range for an hour or 2 -- or more -- waiting for a spot to open up. With the new system, you're signed up for a specific time and can leave and return if it's a long wait.
That's how i see it, anyway. Nobody says you have to show up at 7am. But, if all the slots that day are already taken before you get there at 10, you're out of luck.
Limiting how much time each reservation can take is also a good thing because the days are cut to only Sat & Sun. That's going to create much more weekend demand.
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the priority for reopening the range wasn't for the public obviously, it's for the City admin and other govt users.
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Notice the time slots…1hr 19min with 3 relays. After you s
Shooting your time dlot you clean up and then if you want to shoot more go in the line and sign up for another time slot. Hopefully they open up weekdays to relieve the weekend congestion.
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Heard reason for this is staffing issues ie. 19hr work limit.
Upon openning schedule for range use is to accommodate shooter so more can have range usage. This is subject to change as more workers are hired.
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Ill bet weekends only cause LEO gonna be using it cause they delayed 8 months. So they gonna get M-F priority
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Didn't they always do M-F ???
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This sucks balls
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What happened to all the range personnel? They had enough to man the range Wed. thru Fri. 12-4 and all day Sat. and Sun.
They got laid off or do they still have lead in their bodies?
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Didn't they always do M-F ???
Closed M and Tues
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Closed to the public
Monday, Tuesday
Range is used Monday and Tuesday by different agencies
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What happened to all the range personnel? They had enough to man the range Wed. thru Fri. 12-4 and all day Sat. and Sun.
They got laid off or do they still have lead in their bodies?
all the part time personnel were laid off
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The new rules aren't that bad and can improve things when the range is busy.
The signup starts at 7am, it doesn't say you have sign in at that time to shoot at 3pm nor does it say you can't sign up for a second time slot after your first one is done.
The time limits do help at busy times with people taking up a lane and not shooting. In fact it is a safer practice to reduce the number of people near the firing line that aren't shooting to avoid distractions.
The policy says persons finished shooting must depart the facility. I imagine that means the shooting area and not the grassy field area.
50y rifle target line was probably never authorized as there's no backstop for those rounds. Like the 200 and 400 yard targets before.
Hanging steel targets at 100 yards should be okay, wonder why they took it off? I could see the possibility of riccochets reflecting off the 50 yard targets and hitting a 100 yard steel target and coming back, but they took it out.
They should allow drinks at the range as it gets hot there. You don't have the same lead contamination issues as eating food.
It could interrupt classes though an instructor could get a permit, or just have another instructor or student signup for another lane or time slot.
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The new rules will negatively impact clubs. Chinese Gun Club will not be able to hold NRA or CMP sanctioned matches. Hawaii Historical Arms will not be able to host fun matches, live history events or potlucks. XShots will not be able to hold smallbore matches that help high school students compete for college scholarships.
The action bays, skeet and trap, and silhouette ranges are still closed. All the clubs that use those ranges are SOL.
This is the strangulation of the shooting community. Only people with connections and $$$ will be able to participate in competitive shooting sports.
There are even neighborhood board and State resolutions to shut down the Pu'uloa Ranges.
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This is the strangulation of the shooting community.
This sucks balls
^
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Not ideal and certainly not happy or satisfied with what appears to be coming. However, that there appears to be solid plans for the range to re-open is promising. Hopefully opening for eventual pushes for other areas/portions of the range. Again, not satisfied, but progress. . .
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The new rules will negatively impact clubs. Chinese Gun Club will not be able to hold NRA or CMP sanctioned matches. Hawaii Historical Arms will not be able to host fun matches, live history events or potlucks. XShots will not be able to hold smallbore matches that help high school students compete for college scholarships.
The action bays, skeet and trap, and silhouette ranges are still closed. All the clubs that use those ranges are SOL.
This is the strangulation of the shooting community. Only people with connections and $$$ will be able to participate in competitive shooting sports.
There are even neighborhood board and State resolutions to shut down the Pu'uloa Ranges.
I think they're still working on rules for the bay areas. THis sounds like just the right side, excluding silly side.
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I liked when I could go first thing in the morning maybe a little earlier than 0800, walk in and get a table, shoot for an hour or 2, then be on my way to do what I need to do for the day
now can't make plans for the rest of the day until you get your appointment time, then you need to plan around your appointment time. sucks
I'm pretty busy and don't have time to be waiting on standby for a whole day bc I want to shoot
but if that's how its going to be, then ok family, you guys be on standby bc I like shoot. can't go to your son's soccer game bc we need to get our shooting time first. but if that how it needs to be, then so be it, bc I like shoot
not being open on weekdays means the weekends will be more busy than it usually is
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I liked when I could go first thing in the morning maybe a little earlier than 0800, walk in and get a table, shoot for an hour or 2, then be on my way to do what I need to do for the day
now can't make plans for the rest of the day until you get your appointment time, then you need to plan around your appointment time. sucks
I'm pretty busy and don't have time to be waiting on standby for a whole day bc I want to shoot
but if that's how its going to be, then ok family, you guys be on standby bc I like shoot. can't go to your son's soccer game bc we need to get our shooting time first. but if that how it needs to be, then so be it, bc I like shoot
not being open on weekdays means the weekends will be more busy than it usually is
I don't see how the new system is worse. If there was a waiting list when you arrived, you'd still have to either be there when a bench opened up -- meaning an indefinite wait -- or leave if you had plans for later. The benefit is you'll now know how long the wait will be, and the people ahead of you can't linger for the whole morning taking up a bench.
If you ever did any work on simulations of queues, there's a method to figuring out how long each person must wait, how many you can serve in a given period, and how to optimize the number of queues so people aren't waiting more than is necessary. Limiting the time per person to tie up a bench is a great way to avoid long waits.
I see the limited number of days available as the weakest part of this scheme. But, if clubs are unable to occupy half the range for their events, that frees up space to serve the weekday visitors who now show up on the weekend.
Seems like they did put some logical thought into the process to optimize the limited time the range will be open. Something tells me this is temporary until the rest of the repairs and upgrades are complete.
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I’m on the fence about the sign-up system… plan sounds ok based on the points Flapp and others have raised, but we’ll see how it works out in execution.
Not happy about no weekday public shooting. Was always less busy when I went on weekdays (which wasn’t super often). I thought the point of the closure/remediation was for safety… how does closing on weekdays make it more safe? Did they really lay off all the part-time employees? If so, sounds like a cost-cutting measure, not safety.
Much more concerned about the action bays (where I do the vast majority of my shooting… or at least I used to) and what kind of rules they’ll have. No eating/drinking is a non-starter; for a USPSA match, it’s normal for club officers to be out there from as soon as the gates open to 3:00 in the afternoon or later… you’re going to tell me they can’t eat or drink the whole day? Doesn’t seem “safe…”
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I’m on the fence about the sign-up system… plan sounds ok based on the points Flapp and others have raised, but we’ll see how it works out in execution.
Not happy about no weekday public shooting. Was always less busy when I went on weekdays (which wasn’t super often). I thought the point of the closure/remediation was for safety… how does closing on weekdays make it more safe? Did they really lay off all the part-time employees? If so, sounds like a cost-cutting measure, not safety.
Much more concerned about the action bays (where I do the vast majority of my shooting… or at least I used to) and what kind of rules they’ll have. No eating/drinking is a non-starter; for a USPSA match, it’s normal for club officers to be out there from as soon as the gates open to 3:00 in the afternoon or later… you’re going to tell me they can’t eat or drink the whole day? Doesn’t seem “safe…”
Reduces the number of hours of exposure long term.
The body can eliminate a certain amount of heavy metals, but too much results in heavy metal poisoning which can cause lifelong chronic health problems (liver disease, kidney disease, loss of brain function, ...) or even be fatal if not caught in time.
The body needs a certain amount of some metals like Zinc and Iron. Getting too little of those are also a health concern.
Acute poisoning is when you get a very large dose all at once. That's deemed a medical emergency.
Chronic poisoning. You get this after contact with a low dose over a long time.
As the metal builds up in your body, you can get sick. Symptoms come on slowly and can include:
Headache
Weakness and tiredness
Achy joints and muscles
Constipation
Drinking water with lead in it can lead to cognitive problems and slower development in kids.
Infants who drink formula mixed with tap water are at especially high risk if their drinking water
is contaminated.
Lead has been banned from plumbing for years, but it still gets into the water supply from old
lines. Some water filters will remove it from your water, but if you’re concerned about the level
of lead in your drinking supply, you can request a water test.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-is-heavy-metal-poisoning
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Used to run pretty good. Early birds get there with their coffee. Kapu bench. Shoot couple hours. Guys who waited but knew they would probably wait due to arrival time shoot next. Clears out little bit at lunch and 12-12:30 crew shows up. Later 2:00 to closing crew shows up.
Now, no weekdays though. We’re gonna get more of the 2 shots per rotation guys on the weekend. I don’t mind the time limit. Should be two hours = 4 rotations.
At one point weren’t we doing online sign-ups during the pandemic.
(Note: theory: anti-gunners would book all the slots)
And NO Silhouette !? >:( :wtf:
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Just because the range is changing doesn't mean it's meant to curtail our rights. I've lived where there were no free gun ranges -- only commercial or private property where you had to be invited by the owners. Every nearby commercial range charged per hour, and memberships made it more affordable (not to be confused with the X-Ring membership scheme).
We're lucky to have a public range that doesn't require us to pay fees (other than taxes). It appears the C&C are actively trying to come up with a remedy for the health and safety issues. Over time, if what they implemented isn't working as it should, we/they can address it then. Remember, we have people who know little to nothing deciding on firearm and range issues. That's why they hired outside experts. That's better than them listening to someone like Knudsen telling them to shut it down.
COVID created a stressful environment to have to deal with these types of problems. So many emergencies to manage. We're lucky the COVID emergency was lifted and the C&C can focus on other pressing issues like the range.
Personally, I think a lot of this should have been taken care of during the last closure, but that can was kicked down the road. JMHO.
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If I cant walk in at 0730 and get a bench, its worse
I guarantee that will be how it will be
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If I cant walk in at 0730 and get a bench, its worse
I guarantee that will be how it will be
When it reopens, I will post again
Be ready for the "I told you so"
:grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
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People complaining about range operation hrs here is the solution.
Fill out app to work at Kokohead Shooting complex.
The issue is that RSOs are hired as PT which means under 20hrs worked a week.
With that the city does not have to cover medical.
So more workers more hrs ie weekdays and holidays.
.
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I already work overtime every day
So, I'm not working there. I want to shoot not work
I can criticize government work bc they work for US
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So there will be rules saying "No eating or drinking?" This can't be right.
Whatever happened to the wash stations that were advised to be added?
As long as there are provisions to reduce the toxins of lead, then the safety aspect has been met. Gee, we don't have to hold adult hands in every aspect of life, do we? :rofl:
I mean, they fixed the roof and landscaped the area. Painted here and there. That's nice but were those the issues the range was closed in the first place? I don't believe they were. So they brought tons of dirt to fix the berms and demolished the wall.
Put up some wash stations. Hire back the RSO's, tell Knudson to shut the f**k up and open the damn range.
Weekdays too. I still think weekends, even with the planned sign up feature, will be a clusterf**k.
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I don’t see me shooting at KHSC anymore. Tired of the BS and don’t see the skeet and trap side opening up again. Both of those ranges will have to incur the cost of cleaning up the lead, plastic and clay residue which is very expensive, they just don’t have the funds. Only way I can see them coming back up is if they combine both clubs, install overlays and just clean up the side they are going to use. I intend to shoot trap at Schofield. KHSC is gonna be a cluster fuck for quite some time. I’m done! ^-^
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I read the Kramer One KHSC recommendations paper, the range consultant company the city is using. It's well written and thought out and uses the NRA Range sourcebook, environmental and OSHA regulations, and standard industry practices. I can understand and agree with most of the recommendations.
Things to note:
1. It states no bullets or fragments were found on the roof of the range, indicating the odds of fragments or riccochets reaching the firing line is unlikely.
2. Report notes that bullet deflection can occur by by bullets striking the ground at the rifle 50yd line and a intermediate berm needs to be built or range regraded to ensure rounds impact the backstop. Same is true for the metallic silhouette range. Silhouette range should be closed until improvements are made.
3. The pistol side lanes 1-3 should be closed due as the backstop runs short of the rock wall. Needs to be fixed.
4. Rifle backstop should be 20ft high. Currently they fixed it up but it looks well short of this height. This could be fixed in the future, but I think the range would have to be closed for a while again.
5. Falling steel plates (like pepper poppers) should be prohibited from the action bays until ballistic calculations are made to ensure bullets can't escape the south wall. Issue is multiple shots when the plate is falling, bullets can be deflected up. Prohibit the use of bowling pins.
6. Shotgun ranges should be converted to lead-free ammo as it's not feasible to pickup lead from the rock wall. Range should also be closed until ballistic calculations can be made to ensure shot doesn't fall onto cars on the highway above.
7. Tires and other objects need to be removed from the shooting bays.
8. Lead buildup in the backstop does not appear to be a riccochet hazard at this time in the bays and pistol/rifle ranges.
9. Hanging steel plates are not a problem on the rifle range, but the city proposed policy would ban them. I'm not sure why.
10. Report does not mention food or drinks, but city would ban consumption on the range. I would disagree and allow drinks as heat injuries could occur.
11. Lead poisoning should not be an issue at the outdoor range, but precautions and proper cleaning need to be in place Fabric furniture should be removed from the range.
12. Range exceeds OSHA/NIOSH standards so employees should use double hearing protection.
13. Handwashing stations should be provided at each range.
14. Lead migration in the environment isn't a problem.
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So KHSC gets more boring.
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No falling steel on the action bays is a buzzkill… :(
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Wash station will be portable.
No RSOs were laid off.
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Banning hanging steel is a bummer… Sometime you wanna shoot at reactive targets…
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Wash station will be portable.
No RSOs were laid off.
Since no RSOs were laid off, have they provided any reasoning for the reduced operating schedule?
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ban steel targets at rifle range is stupid
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ban steel targets at rifle range is stupid
you can thank the feline lover for that
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Cutting back the schedule is stupid, especially when so many people are waiting to shoot. Looks like I'll be putting more time in on the air rifle at home until the initial flood settles down.
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ban steel targets at rifle range is stupid
Everything about the opening of the range is stupid. But on par with how Hawaii does things. And yeah, if they neva lay off the RSO's, I fail to see why they don't resume the regular schedule.
Their message is clear: WE HOLD THE HAMMER. NOT YOU.
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I was told there may be some updates and discussion about Koko Head Shooting Complex, among other things, at Mayor Rick Blangiardi's Town Hall Meeting, tomorrow, April 13, 6:30 pm, Kalani High School. I guess it's the nearest Mayor's Town Hall Meeting to Koko Head?
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Mayor will announce range opening date and new rules.
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No hanging/swinging steel is not just stupid.
It’s counterintuitive and makes no sense.
Why would you want shooters shooting at targets that drive the bullet downward (or is it the head?)
If they frag there’s no energy left past a few yards.
“ No. We’re not letting you enjoy those safe targets that are fun to shoot at and a great way to introduce kids to shooting. “
At 100 yards in that wind, most kids won’t enjoy shooting paper.
But if they saw the target swing (and if Rocky’s there) heard the ring. That’s what most of my kids and nephews enjoyed.
Only 1 kid stuck with it though.
Glad I got a .17hmr. Thing can same hole at 50. Fawkin’ wild Wild West at 100 in that wind. Not only read the wind but guess the gust.
It’ll be like surfing. Forecast for light variable wind 5-10 mph. Yeah, glassy. Yeah range. Range packed like line up.
That no steel thing SUCKS !
(On top of all the other shit)
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KHSC pistol and rifle ranges will be open on April 29th.
Metallic silhouette bay will remain closed until improvements are made.
Action bays will reopen once HPD makes some sort of improvements on it. Find out more tomorrow.
Trap and skeet will remain closed.
City is pushing out a press release tomorrow.
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Thanks for the report Zippz.
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KHSC pistol and rifle ranges will be open on April 29th.
Metallic silhouette bay will remain closed until improvements are made.
Action bays will reopen once HPD makes some sort of improvements on it. Find out more tomorrow.
Trap and skeet will remain closed.
City is pushing out a press release tomorrow.
ooops
sorry
just saw this
i made a separate post so it gets more visibility...
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Wait… no steel targets anymore? That’s all I shoot!
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Wait… no steel targets anymore? That’s all I shoot!
Comment here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE
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Any word as to when KHSC will be open again on weekdays?
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As soon as local law makers and c&c get their head out of their ass
Which isn't any time soon
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They need full time rangemaster qualified personnel.
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Seriously doubt the trap and skeet ranges are ever gonna open again. They are through…… >:(
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They need full time rangemaster qualified personnel.
Thats exactly what I heard. They had more ROs training last weekend. Glad the C&C hired more personnel. Just need a qualified range master. One more request…allow cancellations of appointments. without that option there’s going to be empty benches
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What’s the hole size of the target holder for rifle stands? I heard it’s 2”, but if using a 2x2, we would need to shave down the corners. Isn’t the 2x2 actually 1.5x1.5? Do we still have to shave down the corners?
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What’s the hole size of the target holder for rifle stands? I heard it’s 2”, but if using a 2x2, we would need to shave down the corners. Isn’t the 2x2 actually 1.5x1.5? Do we still have to shave down the corners?
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Pretty sure you need to use a 1.5 x 1.5 (what the store sells as 2x2).
If you make it with a true 2x2 it might fit but your dimensions would have to be perfect. I didn't have to shave corners on the 1.5x1.5
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Seriously doubt the trap and skeet ranges are ever gonna open again. They are through…… >:(
I can't find anyone giving an answer on this. It doesn't even shoot towards any houses.
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Pretty sure you need to use a 1.5 x 1.5 (what the store sells as 2x2).
If you make it with a true 2x2 it might fit but your dimensions would have to be perfect. I didn't have to shave corners on the 1.5x1.5
i've always used the cheapest dimensional lumber, which measures 1.5" x 1.5".
I've always had to taper the corners to fit inside the poles in the ground.
It's advisable to bring a box cutter, sharp knife or other tool to whittle down your stand legs should the holes not fit it. Some poles are so distorted, getting a good fit can be a challenge.
I haven't been since the recent "upgrades," so if they installed new target poles/posts on the rifle side, they could be larger than what i remember.
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The pipes could be designated as 2" pipes but it could be measured outside to outside.
Meaning the inside diameter is smaller. But the 1.5X1.5 lumber should fit, but like it was mentioned, some of those pipes out there are dinged and deformed hence the good idea to have a knife or razor on hand.
One lane I was at had one pipe severely bent, not sure if it was from the grass mowing equipment but I couldn't fit one leg of my stand into it.
So I stuck one leg of the stand in the pipe and dug down on the other side to try to level it.
The things we do to pew pew. Hey, it rhymes...... ;)
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If the pipe is 2 inches inner diameter, neither a true 2” x 2” nor a 1.5” x 1.5” will fit without being shaved down. The corner-to-corner dimension is what has to fit within the diameter of the pipe…
The diagonal of a true 2” x 2” piece of lumber is 2.83 inches. The diagonal of a 1.5” x 1.5” is 2.12 inches. To fit within a 2” inner diameter pipe, the piece of wood would have to be smaller than 1.414” X 1.414”.
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not about "shooting toward houses"
1- they want the skeet/trap clubs to do a "study" to prove that shot does not leave the crater
B- they want the trap/skeet clubs to make sure that the shot and clays on the crater are not damaging the environment and to clean the soil there too
last- they want them to not use one type of metal shot, but i forget which one it is, sorry
I can't find anyone giving an answer on this. It doesn't even shoot towards any houses.
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not about "shooting toward houses"
1- they want the skeet/trap clubs to do a "study" to prove that shot does not leave the crater
B- they want the trap/skeet clubs to make sure that the shot and clays on the crater are not damaging the environment and to clean the soil there too
last- they want them to not use one type of metal shot, but i forget which one it is, sorry
Which is absurd. How exactly would one go about proving that shot does not, and never will, leave the crater? Proving a negative is virtually impossible…
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Which is absurd. How exactly would one go about proving that shot does not, and never will, leave the crater? Proving a negative is virtually impossible…
agreed, but it's not to prove that it will never, ever leave the crater
in government, as you know, it's all about liability and that has to do with designed and studied use...
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I guess this also pertains to the other action bays as well?
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agreed, but it's not to prove that it will never, ever leave the crater
in government, as you know, it's all about liability and that has to do with designed and studied use...
So the city is saying that SOME shot leaving the crater is ok? Did they say how much?
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So the city is saying that SOME shot leaving the crater is ok? Did they say how much?
please show me where i said that...
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I guess this also pertains to the other action bays as well?
yeah
i forgot to mention, the city wants the skeet/trap clubs to pay for the study and the cleanup
and the same with hpd on the action bay side
HPD is saying, if we pay, then we get control of who uses the ranges, and guess what that means...
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yeah
i forgot to mention, the city wants the skeet/trap clubs to pay for the study and the cleanup
and the same with hpd on the action bay side
HPD is saying, if we pay, then we get control of who uses the ranges, and guess what that means...
That argument makes no sense. Paying for upkeep or studies doesn't convey ownership or control of the range property. The park is still under C&C control, not the group paying to help maintain it.
If HPD is using the facilities, they should pay for its maintenance regardless of any "control over who uses it" argument.
If this is the new standard, I'm going to pay to have Honolulu Hale fixed up ...
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I guess this also pertains to the other action bays as well?
From the consultants’ report on the range, with emphasis on things that I found particularly interesting…
General required range “improvements” that apply to the action bays:
4. Remove rocks and other hard objects from backstops, side berms and range ground surfaces. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Hard Target Deflected Bullet Escapement)
5. Remove rubber tires from backstops, side berms and range ground surfaces. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Hard Target Deflected Bullet Escapement)
6. Remove, or cover with earth, telephone poles and vertically exposed concrete on backstops, side berms and range ground surfaces. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Hard Target Deflected Bullet Escapement)
7. Verify targets are placed to result in bullet impacts into impact area of the backstop. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Ground Deflected Bullet Escapement)
8. Verify all firing locations are a minimum of 10 yards from backstop or steel targets. (See Section 6, Engineering Controls on Outdoor Ranges, Target and Target Placement)
9. Remove and prohibit the use of falling type steel targets, or provide calculations to show bullet deflections will not leave the crater. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Hard Target Deflected Bullet Escapement)
10. Remove and prohibit the use of bowling pins. (See Section 3, Discussion on Bullet Escapement, Hard Target Deflected Bullet Escapement)
Items specific to the action bays:
1. Post safety rules. Appendix B, Signs, has a recommended Action Range Rules sign.
2. Honolulu Police Department establishes a policy and procedures to verify each course of fire meets the safety recommendations of this report related to ammunition type, bullet trajectory and target type.
3. Install unloading/loading stations at law enforcement firearms cleaning area and gunsmith room.
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State DoH inspector said that anything that touches ammunition, i.e. boxes and targets are considered "contaminated" and must be disposed of properly. Makes no sense. I think she got Covid and lead mixed up.
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yeah
i forgot to mention, the city wants the skeet/trap clubs to pay for the study and the cleanup
and the same with hpd on the action bay side
HPD is saying, if we pay, then we get control of who uses the ranges, and guess what that means...
If that’s the case then C&C should tell HPD to shoot someplace else and FO but we know that will NEVER happen… ::)
As for trap & skeet goes they don’t have the money to do what the city wants them to do. That’s why I say they are through unless a big money investor comes in which I doubt will happen….I personally think that they need a private trap and skeet range here and tell the city and HPD to shove it but once again figure the odds….. Fortunately there’s Schofield. That’s where I’ve been going and will never go back to KHSC…..
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Consultants said it's ok to shoot steel at certain distances, yet kokohead still cannot shoot steel
This is F'ing BS!
The consultants are more knowledgable than the c&c dumbasses thats making the rules
Wtf??? ??? ??? ???
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Beginning to think C&C means Cheech and Chong.
Well actually, I've always been thinking this. Ever since Cheech and Chong came to be.
I saw the similarities...... ;D
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NEW RULE:
Do not dispose of empty ammunition boxes, cartridge holders, cases, targets in the trash can at KHSC. The wonderful minds at DoH deemed them some sort of special waste that needs to be disposed of properly.
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NEW RULE:
Do not dispose of empty ammunition boxes, cartridge holders, cases, targets in the trash can at KHSC. The wonderful minds at DoH deemed them some sort of special waste that needs to be disposed of properly.
I saw that this afternoon. Thought it was weird. I didn’t see an alternate trash can around.
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NEW RULE:
Do not dispose of empty ammunition boxes, cartridge holders, cases, targets in the trash can at KHSC. The wonderful minds at DoH deemed them some sort of special waste that needs to be disposed of properly.
Only new to KHSC. Apparently this has been a thing for quite some time.
The big question is whether or not there are disposal sites capable and willing to accept that "special waste?"
There's a lot of liability for the disposal companies if customers don't follow procedures. Could result in some huge EPA fines plus the cost of clean up.
https://www.nssf.org/articles/five-tips-for-firearms-range-onsite-lead-waste-management/
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The sign in question. I've never seen this done at any other range.
Also the new pistol range look. More ventilation. Less noise.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gc1DINf.jpeg)
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...and don't flush your manpons down the toilet
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The sign in question. I've never seen this done at any other range.
Also the new pistol range look. More ventilation. Less noise.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gc1DINf.jpeg)
Basically take your own trash home with you and throw it into your own bin.
Their rubbish cans are only for........gee I dunno. Cannot eat or drink on the firing line. So must be for when you eat and drink behind the firing line.
Those rubbish cans will take years to fill up.
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FYI just found out today that the HPD / Action bay side of the will probably closed till possibly December, don't know about the skeet / trap side.
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FYI just found out today that the HPD / Action bay side of the will probably closed till possibly December, don't know about the skeet / trap side.
Boo. That sucks.
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The sign in question. I've never seen this done at any other range.
Also the new pistol range look. More ventilation. Less noise.
(https://i.imgur.com/Gc1DINf.jpeg)
this is total BS from the Dept of Health. Asked around in forums on mainland and no ranges do this stupid sh1t.
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Hawaii No Ka Oi.
Numba 1 in stupidity.
And that's only the beginning.
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From what I understand, the DoH needs to have some kind of evidence that said items are contaminated to a certain degree. i.e. lab test results etc. From what I saw, an inspector came out, looked around and told the ROs what they needed to do.
In another related topic, dog parks have trash cans contaminated withe animal feces. Isn't that a concern as well? Lead fishing weights are discarded frequently in the ocean etc...
This is ridiculous.
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Yeah, so we take it home and dispose of it in the C&C trash and that makes it safe. Might make sense, though - no one can claim that KHSC is directly "polluting" the land fill. More CYA I think.
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Yeah, so we take it home and dispose of it in the C&C trash and that makes it safe. Might make sense, though - no one can claim that KHSC is directly "polluting" the land fill. More CYA I think.
Yep. From KHSC all the way up to Lahaina. And everything in-between.
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Sorry to ask .. Does anyone know if the silhouette side is open yet?
I read the action bay tho.
Thanks
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Sorry to ask .. Does anyone know if the silhouette side is open yet?
I read the action bay tho.
Thanks
Silhouette won't open for a long time. If ever. Not sure on its status for range fixes.
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Silhouette won't open for a long time. If ever. Not sure on its status for range fixes.
Damn.. Thanks for the info! :shaka:
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I'm going to make my own silhouette range.....at home with my airguns :shaka:
at least I can shoot some steel. although not as satisfying as shooting steel with my 44magnum :'(
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I'm going to make my own silhouette range.....at home with my airguns :shaka:
at least I can shoot some steel. although not as satisfying as shooting steel with my 44magnum :'(
what is the website for us to reserve a time slot?
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https://pros3.hnl.info/
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Haven’t been to kokohead since it’s reopened. Is the rifle side target frames way longer in size now?
“** Effective Saturday, June 3, 2023: For rifle range targets, center of lowest target must be at least 5 feet from the ground.”
That’s taller than my previous entire target stand.
I guess I’m just venting…or hoping the measurements provided are incorrect.
https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/dpr/pmrs_docs/Rifle_Range_target_frame_April_2023_Koko_Head_Shooting_Complex.pdf
Assuming this design would be sufficient. Seen a target frame someone was selling that was over 7’.
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Haven’t been to kokohead since it’s reopened. Is the rifle side target frames way longer in size now?
“** Effective Saturday, June 3, 2023: For rifle range targets, center of lowest target must be at least 5 feet from the ground.”
That’s taller than my previous entire target stand.
I guess I’m just venting…or hoping the measurements provided are incorrect.
https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/dpr/pmrs_docs/Rifle_Range_target_frame_April_2023_Koko_Head_Shooting_Complex.pdf
Assuming this design would be sufficient. Seen a target frame someone was selling that was over 7’.
Don’t make my mistake…my first frame had the lowest target at 5’…I didn’t take into account that the frame legs would sit into the pipe. It’s closer to 7’6” now
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How’s the wait at kokohead? I totally forgot you have to make a reservation and I like go tomorrow but it’s completely booked from the morning. If I show up without a reservation what are the chances I can get a table at 9am?
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How’s the wait at kokohead? I totally forgot you have to make a reservation and I like go tomorrow but it’s completely booked from the morning. If I show up without a reservation what are the chances I can get a table at 9am?
Registration gets booked quick which opens online 5 days before the day you’ll actually shoot. When I tried to reserve, it gets booked within two days. I want to go shooting bad but there’s nowhere to unless you pay an arm and a leg. I also contacted DLNR to maybe open up an area for hunters and the public to shoot and supposedly they are working on
something. I’d love to see that happen.
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How’s the wait at kokohead? I totally forgot you have to make a reservation and I like go tomorrow but it’s completely booked from the morning. If I show up without a reservation what are the chances I can get a table at 9am?
8am on each Monday. I start trying at 0750 and keep trying until I get in. So far I’ve gotten the time I want. Heard there are a lot of no shows so you might be able to get a table……it’s really a hit or miss.
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How’s the wait at kokohead? I totally forgot you have to make a reservation and I like go tomorrow but it’s completely booked from the morning. If I show up without a reservation what are the chances I can get a table at 9am?
just show up and ask for a walk in bench.
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I went shoot pistol today. Got there about 2pm. Pistol range was fairly empty. Maybe 30 to 40% capacity.
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Don’t make my mistake…my first frame had the lowest target at 5’…I didn’t take into account that the frame legs would sit into the pipe. It’s closer to 7’6” now
Are they out their measuring stands to make sure you aren't 3" too short?
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Are they out their measuring stands to make sure you aren't 3" too short?
There’s a mark on the wall when you check in. I’ve seen them tell shooters to take the bottom target off when it’s too low. It’s just easier to extend the frame.
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I just looked at a spare 2x2 I have in the garage for target repair.
It’s a full 8 footer. I thought… Seriously, we have to make stands that high to stack targets ?
Glad I got a truck.
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Got there at about 930. Had plenty open benches on the pistol side. Damn it was good to get out to the range.
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i had to travel for work in march so i did not keep up with this development at all, as the range was still close when i moved.
I just moved back home, and thought i was going to have a nice range day. What a pleasant surprise to find out that half of the range is still closed, and i need to remake or repurchase all new target stands because this stupid county can't be honest about anything.
Probably wont be able to shoot at all this year. great.
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Pistol range yesterday
This guy starts moving my stuff without my permission of touching my stuff
So I tell him a few times "what's up brah?!!!" A few times
He ignores me. Turns out he is storing his shit in the closet area and my shit is blocking the door. bc he's in some 'club'. That's cool, just let me know what you are doing before you touch my shit. I don't care who you are or what club you are in. Don't touch my shit without my permission
I came this close to giving this asshole the beatdown of his life for touching my shit
Lesson in range etiquette. Don't touch my shit without permission, unless you want to get bitch slapped
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What time was that?
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What time was that?
^^^^^^was dis guy.
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Pistol range yesterday
This guy starts moving my stuff without my permission of touching my stuff
So I tell him a few times "what's up brah?!!!" A few times
He ignores me. Turns out he is storing his shit in the closet area and my shit is blocking the door. bc he's in some 'club'. That's cool, just let me know what you are doing before you touch my shit. I don't care who you are or what club you are in. Don't touch my shit without my permission
I came this close to giving this asshole the beatdown of his life for touching my shit
Lesson in range etiquette. Don't touch my shit without permission, unless you want to get bitch slapped
not as bad as some other shooter helping themselves to a spotting scope "cuz no can see my shots"
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^^^^^^was dis guy.
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....
Nope ....I don't like touching other guy's junk.
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Pistol range yesterday
This guy starts moving my stuff without my permission of touching my stuff
So I tell him a few times "what's up brah?!!!" A few times
He ignores me. Turns out he is storing his shit in the closet area and my shit is blocking the door. bc he's in some 'club'. That's cool, just let me know what you are doing before you touch my shit. I don't care who you are or what club you are in. Don't touch my shit without my permission
I came this close to giving this asshole the beatdown of his life for touching my shit
Lesson in range etiquette. Don't touch my shit without permission, unless you want to get bitch slapped
That's pretty rude .... putting your stuff down in front of a doorway. What the hell were you thinking?
:geekdanc: :shaka:
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^^^^^^was dis guy.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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That's pretty rude .... putting your stuff down in front of a doorway. What the hell were you thinking?
:geekdanc: :shaka:
Haha!
That's why I love this website. You guys always slap my ass back into reality.
Thank you , Flapp for your one of a kind sense of humor. I can really appreciate it . Even if it's at my own expense. :shaka: :shaka:
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Unfortunately many of the old time bullseye shooters think they own the place because they are regulars. You see this attitude everywhere - the golf course, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc. Some people are just assholes
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Unfortunately many of the old time bullseye shooters think they own the place because they are regulars. You see this attitude everywhere - the golf course, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc. Some people are just assholes
The "Club" mentality. Makes them special. Aloof. Smug.
Btw, what club does this guy belong to? Fricken KHSC is so restricted now you mean there actually is a "club".??!!
Gee, the rest of us gotta go online to reserve 3 measly relays per day and this guy BELONGS IN A FRICKEN CLUB????!!!!!
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....
Nope ....I don't like touching other guy's junk.
Yeah, I know wasn't you. I know you and you have etiquette. Politeness. You would never do something like this. If was you, you can touch my junk. You have my permission. :rofl:
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The "Club" mentality. Makes them special. Aloof. Smug.
Btw, what club does this guy belong to? Fricken KHSC is so restricted now you mean there actually is a "club".??!!
Gee, the rest of us gotta go online to reserve 3 measly relays per day and this guy BELONGS IN A FRICKEN CLUB????!!!!!
I cant remember what club he said he belonged to. Bc I don't give a shit what club it is
But I hear ya, this club mentality is too much
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Unfortunately many of the old time bullseye shooters think they own the place because they are regulars. You see this attitude everywhere - the golf course, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc. Some people are just assholes
Same ting at SRGC SR5….skeeters think they own da place but they are pretty cool with the exception of a couple of pecker heads…. :D
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I cant remember what club he said he belonged to. Bc I don't give a shit what club it is
But I hear ya, this club mentality is too much
Must have been da Chinese gun club…only one I can think of….
A few years ago I had some jerk move my shooting stuff from the left side bench while I was getting some stuff from the car. Called him out on it and was told it’s reserved for the club bullseye shoot. Told him fine but next time ask and he started giving me attitude. RO came up and told him to leave. Dat really pissed him off….put my stuff in another bay and left it at that…. ;)
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Before u touch someones stuff ask cause i scratched my nuts b4 touching my gun. But its all G if u dont mind my nut sack.
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Before u touch someones stuff ask cause i scratched my nuts b4 touching my gun. But its all G if u dont mind my nut sack.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Before u touch someones stuff ask cause i scratched my nuts b4 touching my gun. But its all G if u dont mind my nut sack.
Asking won't help them if you say "yes".
Just sayin'.
:geekdanc:
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Any word on Silhouette side ?
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Yeah, I know wasn't you. I know you and you have etiquette. Politeness. You would never do something like this. If was you, you can touch my junk. You have my permission. :rofl:
....
Hey bik boi...Yoo by mee drinkee?
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....
Hey bik boi...Yoo by mee drinkee?
I need 2 drinkee's. Lol
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Any word on Silhouette side ?
I keep asking every time I go and nobody has an answer. Last week i asked one of the silly side's regulars and he didnt know anything. If anyone would know, he would. And he didn't know
Shit! I fricken miss that range. A piece of my life is missing without it :( :'(
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Any word on Silhouette side ?
The city wants the Silhouette Club to do the clean up, and build berms at each yard line with steel targets. Please write and call Laura Thielen to voice your displeasure.
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The city wants the Silhouette Club to do the clean up, and build berms at each yard line with steel targets. Please write and call Laura Thielen to voice your displeasure.
Well they do have control and charge for use.
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Well they do have control and charge for use.
The people using and charging for that range also pay taxes to the City and County.
if the C&C has the responsibility to clean up the park they manage, how can they then shift that burden to a small group of patrons just because they collect money from their club members? Is there anything in the club's founding that included range cleanup and improvements mandated by the city? If so, they would have had to increase their rates I'm sure. You can't tell someone they need to pay for something they were never told they'd be responsible for after the fact.
Why not make the NRA pistol safety course instructors who use the range and charge $150-200 per student fix the pistol side?
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Well they do have control and charge for use.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
In the past the city was responsible for improvements and maintenance such as repairs to the berms and other
major range work. The city was also responsible for cutting the grass. This has been past practice for many years.
Now it looks like the city wants to pass the buck on to the clubs. As Flapp said if the club(s) will have to foot the bill
for all repairs the public will have to expect higher fees to pay for it. I recently heard that Thielen was trying to back
track after getting flack for her brilliant ideas. Keep in mind that law enforcement also uses the silhouette range.
Should they be expected to cough up more money too? After all fair is fair right?
Thielen has opened up a whole can of worms trying to reinvent the wheel. I wonder if she is doing this on her own
or she is just following orders? Looking back at her career with the state she has a history of failures. Her MO seems to
be cutting and canceling worthy programs with out regard to consequences. IMHO she is just trying to make a name
for herself with out regard for the public good. This sounds like the same things that Joe Brandon would do..
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I wouldn’t hold your breath on the silhouette side reopening. They won’t let us shoot steel on the rifle side…how would they allow steel targets on the silhouette side? I doubt the club wants to clean up or build berms. As it stands the pistol & rifle is open…that seems to satisfy the majority of users.
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I wouldn’t hold your breath on the silhouette side reopening. They won’t let us shoot steel on the rifle side…how would they allow steel targets on the silhouette side? I doubt the club wants to clean up or build berms. As it stands the pistol & rifle is open…that seems to satisfy the majority of users.
============
It is the bare minimum to satisfy 2A requirements. aka a constitutional violation lawsuit.
Jolly Green is not stupid. His intention is to stifle as much social activity at the range as possible.
When you stop people from gathering, you stop groups from banding together to complain.
Basically, it is cutting off communication to your group. It is exactly like a war.
Study history and it becomes obvious that the gov-ernment is using war strategy tactics on us.
He has used other subversive tactics on us that I have not mentioned yet
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============
It is the bare minimum to satisfy 2A requirements. aka a constitutional violation lawsuit.
Jolly Green is not stupid. His intention is to stifle as much social activity at the range as possible.
When you stop people from gathering, you stop groups from banding together to complain.
Basically, it is cutting off communication to your group. It is exactly like a war.
Study history and it becomes obvious that the gov-ernment is using war strategy tactics on us.
He has used other subversive tactics on us that I have not mentioned yet
Where they messed up is hpd uses the range too. Almost a slam dunk.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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since Green is brought up, its interesting that locals want to keep Hawaii Hawaii etc. buy local etc, sell land to locals but we import leadership....We had a chance but instead of picking a local we picked a mainlander.
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since Green is brought up, its interesting that locals want to keep Hawaii Hawaii etc. buy local etc, sell land to locals but we import leadership....We had a chance but instead of picking a local we picked a mainlander.
Waycist! >:D
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Hawaii is such a unique, special, beautiful, and f*cked up place. :wave:
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since Green is brought up, its interesting that locals want to keep Hawaii Hawaii etc. buy local etc, sell land to locals but we import leadership....We had a chance but instead of picking a local we picked a mainlander.
We already had one and like ALL dummocrats Waihee was totally useless….. :shaka:
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I wouldn’t hold your breath on the silhouette side reopening. They won’t let us shoot steel on the rifle side…how would they allow steel targets on the silhouette side? I doubt the club wants to clean up or build berms. As it stands the pistol & rifle is open…that seems to satisfy the majority of users.
I went to the pistol side yesterday. They allowed this shooter to hang what looked like wooden or foam targets. One was shaped like a diamond and the other was shaped like a star. But can tell how they were swaying in the wind they weren't steel.
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Hawaii is such a unique, special, beautiful, and f*cked up place. :wave:
=================
yeah, really...
But I call it home.
It would be tough for me to move since I got so much junk.
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Kokohead Trap range to open on Sunday, Nov 12 to Club Members and the general public. :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
The email that I got today.
Aloha All,
Good News !!! Honolulu Trap Club is preparing to reopen after over a year's forced hiatus.
The trap range will be open on November 5th for Range Officers ONLY. Please do not try to come and shoot on that day. The range officers will be checking equipment and making sure all is ready and safe for the public opening.
The trap range will open for members and the general public on Sunday, November 12th. Going forward the range will be open every Sunday from 9am - 3 pm with the proviso that if there are no shooters present, the range will close earlier. The fee is $5.00 per 25 targets for all shooters until January 1st when we will revert to member/non member rates. Correct change is always appreciated.
Please note that some procedures have changed. There will be two separate trash cans which are clearly marked: one is for spent hulls and ammunition boxes only and the other is for everything else. This is a Department of Health requirement so please follow their rule. We also ask that you do not eat at the same bench/table where there is a likelihood of lead contamination. And it's always good practice to wash your hands before eating.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the range!!!
Honolulu Trap Club
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Kokohead Trap range to open on Sunday, Nov 12 to Club Members and the general public. :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
The email that I got today.
Aloha All,
Good News !!! Honolulu Trap Club is preparing to reopen after over a year's forced hiatus.
The trap range will be open on November 5th for Range Officers ONLY. Please do not try to come and shoot on that day. The range officers will be checking equipment and making sure all is ready and safe for the public opening.
The trap range will open for members and the general public on Sunday, November 12th. Going forward the range will be open every Sunday from 9am - 3 pm with the proviso that if there are no shooters present, the range will close earlier. The fee is $5.00 per 25 targets for all shooters until January 1st when we will revert to member/non member rates. Correct change is always appreciated.
Please note that some procedures have changed. There will be two separate trash cans which are clearly marked: one is for spent hulls and ammunition boxes only and the other is for everything else. This is a Department of Health requirement so please follow their rule. We also ask that you do not eat at the same bench/table where there is a likelihood of lead contamination. And it's always good practice to wash your hands before eating.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the range!!!
Honolulu Trap Club
I think this is wonderful. Congratulations on it's re-opening. :thumbsup: I don't shoot trap or skeet but anything that benefits the shooting community is a good and welcome change of events.
Sad that the wheels of common sense turn so slowly with our government leaders. But on second thought I realized it depends. On the agenda.
If it is something that Hawaii's leaders have a stake in and not just a lawful inconvenience ( like 2a) the wheels would spin so fast your neck would get whiplash. ::)
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there were some people shooting on the action bay side this past saturday. could have been on the shotgun range, not sure bc I was almost at the exit when my friend who was in the passenger seat told me "there's people shooting over there"
but they weren't shooting shotgun. so Idk what's going on over there, but something is happening
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Is the range open on Friday since it’s Veterans Day observed?
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Is the range open on Friday since it’s Veterans Day observed?
Probably not if there's no reservations for Holidays. :wtf: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
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Kokohead Trap range to open on Sunday, Nov 12 to Club Members and the general public. :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
The email that I got today.
Aloha All,
Good News !!! Honolulu Trap Club is preparing to reopen after over a year's forced hiatus.
The trap range will be open on November 5th for Range Officers ONLY. Please do not try to come and shoot on that day. The range officers will be checking equipment and making sure all is ready and safe for the public opening.
The trap range will open for members and the general public on Sunday, November 12th. Going forward the range will be open every Sunday from 9am - 3 pm with the proviso that if there are no shooters present, the range will close earlier. The fee is $5.00 per 25 targets for all shooters until January 1st when we will revert to member/non member rates. Correct change is always appreciated.
Please note that some procedures have changed. There will be two separate trash cans which are clearly marked: one is for spent hulls and ammunition boxes only and the other is for everything else. This is a Department of Health requirement so please follow their rule. We also ask that you do not eat at the same bench/table where there is a likelihood of lead contamination. And it's always good practice to wash your hands before eating.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the range!!!
Honolulu Trap Club
For some reason i didnt get the skeet or trap email, but my friend did and called me about it. He said there is now a 26" barrel length minimum and no smoking. Is that correct?
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For some reason i didnt get the skeet or trap email, but my friend did and called me about it. He said there is now a 26" barrel length minimum and no smoking. Is that correct?
Have not heard anything about that from the trap side, maybe skeet? ???
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Have not heard anything about that from the trap side, maybe skeet? ???
Got word that trap will be open Sunday the 12th….
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Have not heard anything about that from the trap side, maybe skeet? ???
Here is an updated email that my buddy forwarded to me this morning.
"There have been a lot of questions and concerns about the new barrel length rule. Let me clarify. The barrel minimum length has been changed to 25” from 26”. This does not include youth guns and field hunting guns (some of those come in 22” and 25”). There are some Remington 870s and such that have 18” barrels. Certain shotguns may be permitted per range officer’s discretion. The purpose of this rule is to eliminate box fed/detachable magazine style shotguns as well as bullpup, KSG or DP 12.Those platforms have particularly short barrels and are not meant for sporting. Also, all shotguns must have a buttstock. No pistol grips or collapsible stocks.
I also want to include a big thanks to Brian Cordero for his assistance in dealing with the city to help get our range back open. He was helpful and provided a multitude of information that was extremely beneficial for us to use with the parks department regarding planning and permitting. So when you see him sock him on the shoulder and tell him thanks."
Best regards,
Max Yasukawa
President
Koko Head Skeet Club
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Can someone post a picture of the rifle range with targets set.
I wanna gauge height of stand.
Just had couple nephews make age.
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Can someone post a picture of the rifle range with targets set.
I wanna gauge height of stand.
Just had couple nephews make age.
============
pdf file attached
This was taken from the city website and I hope it is correct.
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============
pdf file attached
This was taken from the city website and I hope it is correct.
My first target was a little low because I didn’t account for the stand going into the pipe. My mistake, I should have built it 6” taller. They were measuring when the change was first implemented but not sure if they’re that strict nowadays
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My first target was a little low because I didn’t account for the stand going into the pipe. My mistake, I should have built it 6” taller. They were measuring when the change was first implemented but not sure if they’re that strict nowadays
I was on pistol side on 11/5. I looked over on the rifle side and saw anykine target stands, more than half were not in compliance with the new dimensions that came with the re-opening.
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If wanting to shoot on a Saturday, will that be like a Monday to do reservations? Or Tuesday? Not too sure when website says 5 days ahead.. I’m assuming Monday. If not, I just going chance em and do walk-in I guess.
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If wanting to shoot on a Saturday, will that be like a Monday to do reservations? Or Tuesday? Not too sure when website says 5 days ahead.. I’m assuming Monday. If not, I just going chance em and do walk-in I guess.
For Saturday slots apply online on Mondays. Online starts at 8am.
For Sunday slots apply online on Tuesdays. Online starts at 8am.
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For Saturday slots apply online on Mondays. Online starts at 8am.
For Sunday slots apply online on Tuesdays. Online starts at 8am.
Thanks :shaka:
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Work on action bays ready to start
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Work on action bays ready to start
any word on the silhouette side?
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Work on action bays ready to start
That's great to hear. :shaka:
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any word on the silhouette side?
I hope it opens. There gotta be a solution to this. Maybe the city does the recommended safety renovations, and the club maintains it?
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I hope it opens. There gotta be a solution to this. Maybe the city does the recommended safety renovations, and the club maintains it?
I hope so too
what improvements did they actually do to the rifle and pistol side anyway? they fixed the target stand holders on the pistol side but not on the rifle side. maybe they repainted the shooting area. but doesn't look like anything else. the berms look the same to me. maybe the added some dirt. I don't think they did anything else other than that. and took them 8 months to do it. that's stupid
I've been shooting silhouette side pretty regularly for the past 11 years and nothing ever happened as far as ricochet off the steel. and those that they paid to review kokohead said shooting steel is perfectly fine. there's no logical reason to close it
the Silhouette club doesn't own the property. the city should do the renovations not the club. just do the same like rifle and pistol which wasn't much
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speaking of "improvements" the City messed that up. What purpose does that fence do on the rifle side besides impede movement? Those red lights to indicate a cease fire can't be seen from shooters' perspective facing downrange. They come on but I only noticed it when I was on the line looking up and down.
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speaking of "improvements" the City messed that up. What purpose does that fence do on the rifle side besides impede movement? Those red lights to indicate a cease fire can't be seen from shooters' perspective facing downrange. They come on but I only noticed it when I was on the line looking up and down.
Absolutely right. Tax payer money was used to build a useless fence that served no practical purpose.
What if there is a sudden need to evacuate the area due to a fire or other emergency?
Fire spreads rapidly with dry vegetation or maybe no one in the C&C thought about it.
Mr. Mayor tear down this fence.
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speaking of "improvements" the City messed that up. What purpose does that fence do on the rifle side besides impede movement? Those red lights to indicate a cease fire can't be seen from shooters' perspective facing downrange. They come on but I only noticed it when I was on the line looking up and down.
=============
EXACTLY
(https://i.postimg.cc/05LMhF4s/SMH.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I'm going to take pictures and send it to my councilman and complain.
Politicians greatest enemy are grumpy old retired men who have nothing better to do than complain.
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Just shows that our government just did the very bare minimum for recreational shooting. I would bet they opened the trap and skeet side because they fear push back. It is, after all, a recreational sport and doesn't have any evil innuendos like heaven forbid, a target with a human silhouette.
Speaking as a clueless individual, is there such things as sillhouette targets that are porous yet still get knocked down when hit? Wouldn't have the satisfying clang of steel but that would be fun besides punching holes in paper.
And yeah, that stupid fencing on the rifle side is retarded. And since the City implemented it, it makes sense. I guess. ;D
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I think the addition of the fence and stupid execution of the red lights was done to give work to politically connected friends. What purpose does spraying down the benches and ground with D Lead serve? Are there ANY measurable effects? I have never seen this in outdoor ranges. Its like putting sunblock after getting sunburned.
Anyone else notice the shower stall for sasquatch over the weekend? Its near the entrance
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Also isn't there a formula for amount of toilet stalls per person/area? Seems like 2 stalls per for the potential amount of people using the park is way off.
They should have made a bigger restroom. But that would have probably cost more than doing the roof of the shooting bays.
The issue was lead, richochets, and overall safety but they decide to fix the roof........ :rofl: (and the pipes are still bent on the rifle side where you supposed to put your targets)
Talk about friends needing job contracts. :rofl:
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I think the addition of the fence and stupid execution of the red lights was done to give work to politically connected friends. What purpose does spraying down the benches and ground with D Lead serve? Are there ANY measurable effects? I have never seen this in outdoor ranges. Its like putting sunblock after getting sunburned.
Anyone else notice the shower stall for sasquatch over the weekend? Its near the entrance
============
LOL
sasquatch shower.
I'll take a wild guess that it is to wash down trucks after working on the berms since thousands of people get sick from touching ammo and bullets.
(for you gun-hating lurkers on the internet, this is sarcasm)
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Just shows that our government just did the very bare minimum for recreational shooting. I would bet they opened the trap and skeet side because they fear push back. It is, after all, a recreational sport and doesn't have any evil innuendos like heaven forbid, a target with a human silhouette.
Speaking as a clueless individual, is there such things as sillhouette targets that are porous yet still get knocked down when hit? Wouldn't have the satisfying clang of steel but that would be fun besides punching holes in paper.
And yeah, that stupid fencing on the rifle side is retarded. And since the City implemented it, it makes sense. I guess. ;D
Yes. https://throomtargets.com/ (https://throomtargets.com/)
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Yes. https://throomtargets.com/ (https://throomtargets.com/)
Can these be used on the rifle side since it’s not steel?
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Can these be used on the rifle side since it’s not steel?
You’d have to ask Parks and Rec about that…
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============
LOL
sasquatch shower.
I'll take a wild guess that it is to wash down trucks after working on the berms since thousands of people get sick from touching ammo and bullets.
(for you gun-hating lurkers on the internet, this is sarcasm)
....
The sasquatch shower is to fill water trucks used to shoot down the dirt before bulldozing. It's dust control.
The silhouette side has a problem with drainage. It's going to take a while to fix that side. Maybe January next year. That's what I was told.
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....
The sasquatch shower is to fill water trucks used to shoot down the dirt before bulldozing. It's dust control.
The silhouette side has a problem with drainage. It's going to take a while to fix that side. Maybe January next year. That's what I was told.
And then we can shoot steel again?
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And then we can shoot steel again?
....
We can only hope
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Can these be used on the rifle side since it’s not steel?
If they allow it, they might say that the bottom of the target must be 5 feet high if at the 50 yard line. :wtf:
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can't shoot steel at kokohead, so I set this up at home for my airguns
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53399087114_70b77d30af_c.jpg)
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the reason why you can't shoot steel is because of one person's complaints over the years
<meow meow>
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....
We can only hope
Does no one on this forum know anyone in charge that can actually get a real answer?
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Does no one on this forum know anyone in charge that can actually get a real answer?
The ranges are supposed to go through another rennovation cycle, with the backstops made larger. Maybe after that...
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some people go to the range(s) and get their answers some people don't
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#objective
some people go to the range(s) and get their answers some people don't
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some people go to the range(s) and get their answers some people don't
I was thinking someone higher up than Mike. Or does he make the big decisions?
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mike is no longer rangemaster
focus
I was thinking someone higher up than Mike. Or does he make the big decisions?
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mike is no longer rangemaster
focus
I didn't know that, thanks.
I guess you can tell how long I haven't been shooting...
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except for your departmental quals, but that's not at koko head...
I didn't know that, thanks.
I guess you can tell how long I haven't been shooting...
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too much time being subjective not enough time to shoot / train
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Is the range open on New Year’s Eve Sunday?
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Is the range open on New Year’s Eve Sunday?
I believe so. The website doesn't mention it.
https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
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Is the range open on New Year’s Eve Sunday?
One way to find out for sure is when you log in to register for a shooting slot on Tuesday, December 26th. for a shooting session the following Sunday. :shaka:
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I just called Parks & Rec. The lady was very nice, and she stated the range is only open on Sat & Sun due to staffing shortages.
So, I pressed her: Are you saying holidays are no longer an exception? In the past, if a holiday fell on a Monday, the range was open, even though Monday is not a regular day to be open.
She said, "I'm not sayin that."
She basically assumed it would be closed, but didn't want to commit to that as the official answer.
She's going to have someone call me back who might know more.
Stay tuned for further developments.
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Silhouette… :(
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Silhouette… :(
over the weekend I heard from a credible source (guy that shoots regularly at silly side and knows the silhouette guys) that there's talk about doing work on the silly side to re-open. might take a few months if anything, but it gives me some hope! :shaka:
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*** UPDATE ***
Got a call back from George, 808-768-6715.
He said as long as they are on the current operating schedule of only Sat & Sun, there will be no exceptions for holidays.
The reason he gave was staffing.
He also said they are currently interviewing and trying to hire permanent staffers, and when that's finalized, they will go back to the normal schedule:
Thursday thru Sunday plus holidays.
Until they announce the change, it's just weekends -- no exceptions.
:shaka:
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*** UPDATE ***
Got a call back from George, 808-768-6715.
He said as long as they are on the current operating schedule of only Sat & Sun, there will be no exceptions for holidays.
The reason he gave was staffing.
He also said they are currently interviewing and trying to hire permanent staffers, and when that's finalized, they will go back to the normal schedule:
Thursday thru Sunday plus holidays.
Until they announce the change, it's just weekends -- no exceptions.
:shaka:
Thanks for that update
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Question about the pistol range... can we shoot PCCs on that side? I knew we could at the silhouette side, but wasn't sure about the pistol side. TIA.
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I have seen shooters with PCCs on that side.
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Question about the pistol range... can we shoot PCCs on that side? I knew we could at the silhouette side, but wasn't sure about the pistol side. TIA.
==========
I'm pretty sure my friend shot his carbine on the pistol side when he got it a few years ago.
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I shot my PCC (AR9) on the bull eye range, but that was before the shutdown. Think rules same though.
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============
It is the bare minimum to satisfy 2A requirements. aka a constitutional violation lawsuit.
Jolly Green is not stupid. His intention is to stifle as much social activity at the range as possible.
When you stop people from gathering, you stop groups from banding together to complain.
Basically, it is cutting off communication to your group. It is exactly like a war.
Study history and it becomes obvious that the gov-ernment is using war strategy tactics on us.
He has used other subversive tactics on us that I have not mentioned yet
==================
New York is trying a similar strategy.
KHSC is semi-closed and the state is using lead contamination as an excuse.
I know a guy that works for unitek and he said it's BS. :grrr:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2a-sneak-attack-new-york-senate-bill-hides-gun-control-measures-in-environmental-law/ss-BB1mySCb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=ec2b2061dc5f4d308c2f0d587c45b246&ei=17#image=3
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==================
New York is trying a similar strategy.
KHSC is semi-closed and the state is using lead contamination as an excuse.
I know a guy that works for unitek and he said it's BS. :grrr:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2a-sneak-attack-new-york-senate-bill-hides-gun-control-measures-in-environmental-law/ss-BB1mySCb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=ec2b2061dc5f4d308c2f0d587c45b246&ei=17#image=3
In my mind it's total BS. Hawaii is the top state with the most BS government leaders in the nation. Aloha Spirit my A$$.
Weaponizing the Aloha Spirit. Nomo shame.