2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 02:27:24 PM

Title: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 02:27:24 PM
Just heard that the suspects and vehicle wanted in a Robbery shot at POLICE Just a little while ago. H1 WEST Bound…Watch Out…!
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 02:37:23 PM
Update. Vechice spotted heading to waialua area

Tied to MANY incidents involving more then one shooting
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: oldfart on January 01, 2024, 02:48:00 PM
Chief Logan said crime is down.
So no worry. It's all good. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 01, 2024, 03:02:35 PM
yea no worries.  just seems worse than it is

(https://i.gifer.com/802A.gif)


(https://i.imgur.com/5vSBIPG.jpeg)
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: macsak on January 01, 2024, 03:11:15 PM
get a big dog...
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 03:18:15 PM
Just Announced “lockdown Haleiwa” 3992 following suspect vehicle heading back towards Haleiwa
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 01, 2024, 03:57:22 PM
I was wondering why I was hearing so many sirens today.

I was hoping they were chasing down all those fireworks scofflaws.

 :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 04:03:31 PM
Murder suspect on HI East passed Airport Off. White Scion. Be safe
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 01, 2024, 04:09:53 PM
Murder suspect on HI East passed Airport Off. White Scion. Be safe

Is murder still considered a violent crime now, or do we have to wait for the "Nuance Report?"
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 01, 2024, 04:13:14 PM
all these laws should have prevented this criminal from getting a gun....did he pass all those requirements?
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 04:30:49 PM
Suspect finally in custody. Officer is down and was transported to Queen’s.


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Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: AchieveUltra on January 01, 2024, 04:51:57 PM
CrimeStoppers: Sydney Tafokitau Wanted for Attempted Murder and Robbery 

January 1, 2024
https://www.honolulupd.org/crimestoppers-sydney-tafokitau-wanted-for-attempted-murder-and-robbery/
(https://www.honolulupd.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/IMG_6762.jpeg)

They caught the guy & allegedly 2 officer were shot, one in critical condition.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 01, 2024, 04:53:22 PM
Yes that’s the suspect and yes two officers shot one in critical. Stay away from the university area. Lots of police and lots of closures


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Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 01, 2024, 05:24:03 PM
Prayers to the two officers.  I have a lot of respect for the officers that have to arrest these savages.

it's the legislators and upper police management that I have a problem with that allow these things to happen and prevent us from defending ourselves from people like this.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 01, 2024, 05:50:55 PM
They gonna push ban on rifles and mags again.

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Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: macsak on January 01, 2024, 06:03:05 PM
news reporting possible civilian shot too
no confirmation...
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: macsak on January 01, 2024, 06:52:10 PM
"a friend" says the cops are stable...
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 01, 2024, 06:53:28 PM
I doubt he had CCW. Anyone ever see him in line for PTA?
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: stangzilla on January 01, 2024, 07:04:49 PM
MF'er was in my neighborhood. They shut down the road only a couple blocks away from my house bc he fired on the cops. Had my 9mm on my hip and my AR ready to rock n roll
Happy new year  >:D
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 01, 2024, 07:20:06 PM
The guy was involved in a road rage shooting a month ago and had a criminal past.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/11/21/hpd-arrests-suspect-connection-with-apparent-road-rage-shooting-nuuanu/
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: hvybarrels on January 01, 2024, 08:31:47 PM
Murder suspect on HI East passed Airport Off. White Scion. Be safe

Wow. I was driving on H1 to north shore for a new years surf and saw at least 20 cop cars hauling ass the other way but didn’t realize it was a police chase. Called Mrs Barrels and told her to lock the doors. She’s slightly more open to training after today.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 01, 2024, 09:12:46 PM
They gonna push ban on rifles and mags again.

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Lets see.  A criminal shoots at LE with firearms most likely he wouldn't qualify to acquire legally.

And because of all this sh*t more laws affecting law-abiding gun owners will arise.

Got it.  SMH
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 01, 2024, 09:14:02 PM
The guy was involved in a road rage shooting a month ago and had a criminal past.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/11/21/hpd-arrests-suspect-connection-with-apparent-road-rage-shooting-nuuanu/

And WTF is he doing roaming free?
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: rpoL98 on January 01, 2024, 09:50:03 PM
And WTF is he doing roaming free?
Hawaii's famous catch-and-release system, to insure proliferation of wildlife in our community.

lenient justice system, bleeding heart libtards.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 01, 2024, 11:46:09 PM
from his criminal history

1999 convicted of robbery - Probation

2000 convicted of robbery - Probation

2001 robbed a game room and got enhanced sentancing, life w/parole.

2022 Got released on parole after serving 20 years.


Oct 2023 - Road rage incident and shot other driver.  Charged w multiple firearms violations, out on bail.  Was initially arrested w att murder, but he wasn't charged with it. 

Dec 2023 - Shot at group and knifed a man in Kalihi.  Warrant issued for arrest for multiple attempted.murder charges.

1/1/2024 shot a woman in Aiea, then shot at people in Kalihi.  Carjacked someone in Kaneohe.  Police chase to Haleiwa then UH Manoa.  Shot couple officers then police shot and killed him.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: aletheuo137 on January 02, 2024, 06:16:51 AM
from his criminal history

1999 convicted of robbery - Probation

2000 convicted of robbery - Probation

2001 robbed a game room and got enhanced sentancing, life w/parole.

2022 Got released on parole after serving 20 years.


Oct 2023 - Road rage incident and shot other driver.  Charged w multiple firearms violations, out on bail.  Was initially arrested w att murder, but he wasn't charged with it. 

Dec 2023 - Shot at group and knifed a man in Kalihi.  Warrant issued for arrest for multiple attempted.murder charges.

1/1/2024 shot a woman in Aiea, then shot at people in Kalihi.  Carjacked someone in Kaneohe.  Police chase to Haleiwa then UH Manoa.  Shot couple officers then police shot and killed him.
Nothing to see here just move along!

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Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 02, 2024, 07:25:34 AM
someone is going to say "We need to do something..."
yep we did something to address traffic => rail
yep we did somethings to address 'climate change' => no plastic bags, straws, containers....
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 02, 2024, 08:21:51 AM
We have seen former Chief Ballard use the Diamond Head shooting as an excuse to ban rifle mags. "These two numbers on my badge is why". is what she said during a PC outside the capitol with EMT chief and some senators next to her.  Even though a greater than 10rd mag was never used.

So lets see what our chief does this year and our legislature will do.  Good thing there's already a mag lawsuit in pending a CA (Benitez) ruling. (Abbott vs. Connors).
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 02, 2024, 08:44:23 AM
Since antis have gone after everything in the supply chain of an inanimate object we need something more tangible. We need to hold the judges and probation officers accountable for letting this criminal out...because ONE criminal out in the streets is too many...
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 02, 2024, 08:57:17 AM
Since antis have gone after everything in the supply chain of an inanimate object we need something more tangible. We need to hold the judges and probation officers accountable for letting this criminal out...because ONE criminal out in the streets is too many...

Intersting is that online comments, I haven't seen many "guns bad" type.  Even for the Pearl Ridge woman who was shot.  I hope this is a sign that the feelings on guns are changing more.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Alika on January 02, 2024, 10:40:43 AM
Since antis have gone after everything in the supply chain of an inanimate object we need something more tangible. We need to hold the judges and probation officers accountable for letting this criminal out...because ONE criminal out in the streets is too many...
I’m not a betting man, but I’d suppose that he wouldn’t be the only criminal they’d let loose
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 02, 2024, 11:05:56 AM
Problem is we've developed a sense of hubris when it comes to life's many risks. "We cannot accept this and that - we must do something" "One is too many" We go down this legislative rabbit hole of trying to reduce risk to an impossible ZERO, instead of empowering the law-abiding citizen to mitigate risks themselves. Govt. will always say they can do this and that "because one is too many" caveat is they always take things away from you in order to satisfy some nebulous "need". i.e. What measurable effects have the plastic bans had on the environment?
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 02, 2024, 11:46:50 AM
The son of the car jacking victims helped me propose to Mrs. CMO.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: surfmaster on January 02, 2024, 02:11:02 PM
Prayers to the two officers who were shot and hoping for a speedy recovery.


This is just an after-the-fact assessment that is purely hypothetical.

When the suspect carjacked Erin Valentine on the Windward side, imagine if she was a legal concealed carry holder and she managed to get the drop on the suspect. 

Then a shootout may not have occurred between the suspect and HPD, sparing officers from the dangers of another gunfight.

It would give weight to the benefits of concealed carry.

It would also justify reducing the current burdensome application process.

I wonder how the Chief would downplay the benefits of legal concealed carry in his news conferences.

With crime and shootings becoming more rampant, it’s a matter of when, not if, it occurs again. When it does, I am hoping a legal concealed carry holder can make a difference that helps reduce potential violence and save innocent lives.

I know, this is just hypothetical.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 02, 2024, 03:17:15 PM
Prayers to the two officers who were shot and hoping for a speedy recovery.


This is just an after-the-fact assessment that is purely hypothetical.

When the suspect carjacked Erin Valentine on the Windward side, imagine if she was a legal concealed carry holder and she managed to get the drop on the suspect. 

Then a shootout may not have occurred between the suspect and HPD, sparing officers from the dangers of another gunfight.

It would give weight to the benefits of concealed carry.

It would also justify reducing the current burdensome application process.

I wonder how the Chief would downplay the benefits of legal concealed carry in his news conferences.

With crime and shootings becoming more rampant, it’s a matter of when, not if, it occurs again. When it does, I am hoping a legal concealed carry holder can make a difference that helps reduce potential violence and save innocent lives.

I know, this is just hypothetical.

With the way he was holding his rifle, she would easily have more than enough time to draw and fire.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 02, 2024, 03:25:52 PM
looked like there wasn't any sights on the rifle.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 02, 2024, 04:24:39 PM
I contacted my friend to see if his mom and sister were interested in self defense stuff. He said he will ask and LMK if they are.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: pacwire on January 02, 2024, 05:22:08 PM
“Unregisted ar-15”


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Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: randay on January 02, 2024, 06:36:52 PM
Prayers to the two officers who were shot and hoping for a speedy recovery.


This is just an after-the-fact assessment that is purely hypothetical.

When the suspect carjacked Erin Valentine on the Windward side, imagine if she was a legal concealed carry holder and she managed to get the drop on the suspect. 

Then a shootout may not have occurred between the suspect and HPD, sparing officers from the dangers of another gunfight.

It would give weight to the benefits of concealed carry.

It would also justify reducing the current burdensome application process.

I wonder how the Chief would downplay the benefits of legal concealed carry in his news conferences.

With crime and shootings becoming more rampant, it’s a matter of when, not if, it occurs again. When it does, I am hoping a legal concealed carry holder can make a difference that helps reduce potential violence and save innocent lives.

I know, this is just hypothetical.

Never happen. She would have instantly become a criminal, been arrested for murder, lost her job, family, and life. And be dragged into legal battles for years. There would be a go-fund-me for her right now for her legal defense.

Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 02, 2024, 07:26:44 PM
What's up with McCarthy? Is he a paid "consultant" now that he is retired from HPD?

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/01/03/former-hpd-deputy-chief-fatal-chase-violated-police-pursuit-rules/

Honolulu police may have violated their own policies in the fatal pursuit of armed fugitive Sidney Tofakitau.

A former department executive said halting the high-speed chase might have prevented injuries to officers and innocent bystanders.

However, the chief and mayor are defending the actions of police commanders.

There’s no doubt that Monday’s chase put the public at risk from stray bullets and speeding cars.

HPD has rules limiting dangerous pursuits, which former HPD Deputy Chief John McCarthy says were clearly violated. “They forgot their basic mission to protect life and property, they endangered life and property,” McCarthy told Hawaii News Now.
HPD: Suspect in islandwide manhunt was armed with unregistered rifle

McCarthy was already angry at images of Sidney Tofakitau being chased by dozens of marked and unmarked police vehicles, while he intermittently fired at them.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 02, 2024, 08:27:24 PM
McCarthy is trying to stay relevant.

The police pursuit was justified as they know he was armed and involved in past shootings and stabbings, and shot at a couple people that morning.  He should've been stopped on the likelike or on the H2.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 03, 2024, 08:22:19 AM
Vegas Metro has a vid of a cop shooting thru his windshield. This cop however was qualified to do so is what was reported.  I mean, a cop riding passenger wasn't available to return fire when the opportunity came (as in no one in the line of fire past Sidney's vehicle). I've even seen cops driving and shooting from sticking their hand out their window (Mainland).

Seems like HPD is unprepared to engage someone who's shooting from their vehicle at them or others.  The only exception would be if there's too many people around, like when he was on the freeway.  I haven't watched every second of the chase, but I find it hard to believe that there was no safer opportunity for HPD to return fire. If there wasn't, then refer to the exception. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG1zvDXJx08
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 03, 2024, 08:22:45 AM
McCarthy is trying to stay relevant.

The police pursuit was justified as they know he was armed and involved in past shootings and stabbings, and shot at a couple people that morning.  He should've been stopped on the likelike or on the H2.

I have 2 cop friends on my social media. Both posted the pic of Clown McCarthy.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: oldfart on January 03, 2024, 09:02:17 AM
McCarthy is trying to stay relevant.

The police pursuit was justified as they know he was armed and involved in past shootings and stabbings, and shot at a couple people that morning.  He should've been stopped on the likelike or on the H2.
==========
News organizations, both national and local, have independent consultants that they call upon to provide perspective on important news stories.
McCarthy is just one of several consultants that I see on the news all the time.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: hvybarrels on January 03, 2024, 10:39:59 AM
Quote
Chief Joe Logan explained that HPD could not notify the public because the situation was fluid. He also didn't want anyone else getting involved in the manhunt.
https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/hpd-response-to-manhunt-questioned-after-social-media-warns-the-public-of-dangerous-gunman/article_a1eab6b6-a9e9-11ee-bd0d-df375a5a3f0b.html


I'm still pissed that I drove past a rolling shootout because police never warned the public.

Their justification is that they don't trust us to stay out of harms way. I think it's more about optics and they don't want to admit they are losing control of the city.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 03, 2024, 11:06:43 AM
I get that HPD didn't warn the public.  As Sidney drives pass 1 area, it only takes a few seconds. So how would they update everyone second by second.  Even if they did a general area like say Kailua, would the entire Kailua have to shelter in place?  Then if people were to get emergency text updates, now everyone whos driving would be looking at their phones and probably cause an accident.

What HPD should have done is to shoot, not pit as that adds more risk to the pitting officer.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 03, 2024, 11:21:17 AM
all felons should register. So that when they do criminal things we get alerted :thumbsup: like a sex offender registry
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2024, 11:56:49 AM
I get that HPD didn't warn the public.  As Sidney drives pass 1 area, it only takes a few seconds. So how would they update everyone second by second.  Even if they did a general area like say Kailua, would the entire Kailua have to shelter in place?  Then if people were to get emergency text updates, now everyone whos driving would be looking at their phones and probably cause an accident.

What HPD should have done is to shoot, not pit as that adds more risk to the pitting officer.

Same way they do an Amber Alert or Tsunami Warning.  Send out a "Be alert" notice so everyone knows IF they see a bunch of Cop cars heading their way, they know what's probably going on. 

Might cause people to GTF out of the way if they are sitting at a stop light. 

Might make people more likely to hit the gas if the suspect starts to approach their car (assuming the photo was also disseminated).

Keeping the public in the dark when the Cops know where the guy is strikes me as dumb when the man's picture is on the HPD website asking for public assistance to locate him on Crime Stoppers.  They should be seeking the public's help/cooperation with active pursuits as well.

Of course, HPD will rationalize their lack of communication as an attempt to prevent people from running toward the situation to record it.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: hvybarrels on January 03, 2024, 12:30:25 PM
If they don't trust me then why the hell should I trust them?
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2024, 12:41:51 PM
If they don't trust me then why the hell should I trust them?

... because they are the government,

and they are here to help!

 :geekdanc: :rofl: :popcorn:   :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: hvybarrels on January 03, 2024, 12:59:26 PM
... because they are the government,

and they are here to help!

 :geekdanc: :rofl: :popcorn:   :tinfoil:

So the police decided that I don’t need to know about a life threatening situation. What other decisions are they going to make for me? Kinda feels like I’m being assigned to the role of livestock.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 03, 2024, 01:03:58 PM
surprised the perp didnt have some type of GPS anklet or collar. In regards to his unregistered AR maybe he forgot? They should check when he applied for a PTA and whether he met all reqs.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2024, 01:27:26 PM
So the police decided that I don’t need to know about a life threatening situation. What other decisions are they going to make for me? Kinda feels like I’m being assigned to the role of livestock.

Repeat after me ....


Baaaahhh!  Baaaahhh!  Baaaaahhhh!!

(https://i.imgur.com/KUGEwpY.jpg)
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 03, 2024, 03:07:38 PM
surprised the perp didnt have some type of GPS anklet or collar. In regards to his unregistered AR maybe he forgot? They should check when he applied for a PTA and whether he met all reqs.

he could've registered it online and just waiting for the registration form to come in.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 03, 2024, 03:08:47 PM
and then there's this comment

“If they alerted the public, their concern was … it could turn into an open shooting match of some kind. That was their concern. So they were trying to apprehend him. It was a very unusual circumstance,” said the mayor.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: macsak on January 03, 2024, 04:00:37 PM
they were concerned the public would start shooting at him?

and then there's this comment

“If they alerted the public, their concern was … it could turn into an open shooting match of some kind. That was their concern. So they were trying to apprehend him. It was a very unusual circumstance,” said the mayor.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 03, 2024, 04:29:54 PM
they were concerned the public would start shooting at him?

they make it seem like it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 03, 2024, 05:18:54 PM
they make it seem like it's a bad thing.

That's because they group law-abiding gun owners and criminals as one and the same.  And the sheeple that lack critical thinking eat that sh*t up.

They think it will unleash the wild, wild, west but if they only know, the criminals are fully capable of doing it right now entirely on their own.

So once the criminals are the only ones with guns, the real wild, wild, west will start.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 03, 2024, 06:11:05 PM
The way he was holding his rifle when jacking Mrs. Valentine, if she was CCWing, she would have more than enough time to draw and drop him. He was holding it in 1 hand by the buffer tube.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: surfmaster on January 03, 2024, 06:23:20 PM
The way he was holding his rifle when jacking Mrs. Valentine, if she was CCWing, she would have more than enough time to draw and drop him. He was holding it in 1 hand by the buffer tube.

I had made this same hypothetical statement.

In all seriousness and in the spirit of avoiding any unnecessary legal troubles, would a legal concealed carry holder actually be able to draw and fire shots at the suspect? After all, the suspect pointed a gun at her face and told  her to "get out" of her car.

What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

One answer is to hope he doesn't do anything to you but take your car, which is what happened for the sake of Ms. Valentine.
 
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 03, 2024, 07:04:02 PM
I had made this same hypothetical statement.

In all seriousness and in the spirit of avoiding any unnecessary legal troubles, would a legal concealed carry holder actually be able to draw and fire shots at the suspect? After all, the suspect pointed a gun at her face and told  her to "get out" of her car.

What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

One answer is to hope he doesn't do anything to you but take your car, which is what happened for the sake of Ms. Valentine.

I'd just let him take the car at that point. If he wanted to shoot the woman, he would've done it already.  You wouldn't have the knowledge that he shot other people in the morning.  And if you screw something up....hung up on the draw, malfunction, etc, you are going to die.

If there's more to it, like he tells you to get in the car and drive, then I'd take the chance and shoot.  there's a high likelihood of dying in a kidnapping of strangers
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2024, 08:17:32 PM
I'd just let him take the car at that point. If he wanted to shoot the woman, he would've done it already.  You wouldn't have the knowledge that he shot other people in the morning.  And if you screw something up....hung up on the draw, malfunction, etc, you are going to die.

If there's more to it, like he tells you to get in the car and drive, then I'd take the chance and shoot.  there's a high likelihood of dying in a kidnapping of strangers

You never know what you'll do as a situation unfolds. 

Does he have the drop on you? 

Does an opportunity present itself to draw your weapon and prevail?

Are you enabling an obviously dangerous person to continue on and hurt or kill someone else -- maybe your child or spouse?

How can you be sure he won't shoot you anyway, just because he's got nothing to lose already and he's planning on suicide by Cop?

There are multiple accounts of store clerks 100% cooperating with an armed robber, only to be shot and killed as the criminal was done and about to leave.  No reason for it at all.

For all anyone knows, if someone is robbing you at gun point, they may not want to leave witnesses.  if you're at your place of business, it could be a disgruntled customer or employee/former employee looking for payback.

Then there are the crazy people wanting to rack up a body count for poops and laughter.

If someone points a gun at me, I will assume they are planning to kill me.  If not immediately, then before the encounter has ended. 
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 03, 2024, 09:11:17 PM
just call 911.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: zippz on January 03, 2024, 09:23:13 PM
You never know what you'll do as a situation unfolds. 

There's a lot of what ifs.. But this wasn't your typical criminal.  He was very experienced from what I've read on his history.

While he was serving time in an Arizona prison, he was the victim in a murder attempt.  His cell door opened for no reason and the guards disappeared.   He was confronted by a gang and disarmed a knife from one of them and stabbed him badly.  He got badly beaten but was able to fend them off until the guards came back.

If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: macsak on January 03, 2024, 10:02:21 PM
just scrap...

just call 911.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: RSN172 on January 03, 2024, 10:46:34 PM
just scrap...
Yeah, jus tell um, "Wat brah, you lik go up and up?"
Where is that up and up guy when we need him.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 04, 2024, 05:23:12 AM
There's a lot of what ifs.. But this wasn't your typical criminal.  He was very experienced from what I've read on his history.

While he was serving time in an Arizona prison, he was the victim in a murder attempt.  His cell door opened for no reason and the guards disappeared.   He was confronted by a gang and disarmed a knife from one of them and stabbed him badly.  He got badly beaten but was able to fend them off until the guards came back.

If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

"You don't know who you're facing"...

Unless you're familiar with the attacker, that's always the case.  I'm not going to wonder if this is some cockroach who can't be killed or a wannabe gangster who's doing this for clicks on his Instagram.

As i said, until you're in that situation, you don't know what you'll do.  Part of your action depends on your read on the perp.  if he's more sure of himself versus scared, you have to take that into consideration.  But, if he's holding the rifle in a way that is more useful as a bludgeon than a firearm, he's probably not thinking about shooting it.

I'd use my best judgement, and hopefully make the right call in the moment.  Nobody can do more than that.  The rest is hindsight.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 04, 2024, 07:55:01 AM


If you're close to him, there's a good possibility he'd see you draw and disarm you.  Then beat and kill you.  If at a distance you'll get rounds on him first, but unless you get a good headshot, he'll return rounds your way.  He's not someone that would.stop.or retreat.

You don't know who your facing, and I'm sure you'd take out most criminals.  But Tafokitau is different.

That's why training/practice drawing. You're prob right if the woman were to purse draw. But for someone who can draw and fire by 1.3 seconds, he wouldn't stand a chance.  I mean I guess if they don't mag dump and only shoot 1 round, then maybe he has a chance. But doing so is foolish.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 04, 2024, 07:56:24 AM
"You don't know who you're facing"...

Unless you're familiar with the attacker, that's always the case.  I'm not going to wonder if this is some cockroach who can't be killed or a wannabe gangster who's doing this for clicks on his Instagram.

As i said, until you're in that situation, you don't know what you'll do.  Part of your action depends on your read on the perp.  if he's more sure of himself versus scared, you have to take that into consideration.  But, if he's holding the rifle in a way that is more useful as a bludgeon than a firearm, he's probably not thinking about shooting it.

I'd use my best judgement, and hopefully make the right call in the moment.  Nobody can do more than that.  The rest is hindsight.

It does suck that the CCW holder also has to factor in lawsuits when defending themselves against a guy like this.  Will his family sue me, will he sue me, will the state try and prove that I could have retreated to complete safety, etc...All our use of force laws protect the bad guys.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 04, 2024, 03:09:41 PM
It does suck that the CCW holder also has to factor in lawsuits when defending themselves against a guy like this.  Will his family sue me, will he sue me, will the state try and prove that I could have retreated to complete safety, etc...All our use of force laws protect the bad guys.

This is why calling 911 and leaving the line open is a prudent move.  Evidence is recorded.

Also, as someone once said, 'people sue for the stupidest things.'  No matter how hard you try to prevent it, people will sue -- if for no other reason but to get you to settle without going in front of a judge.  They will ask for a massive amount hoping you'll do the math and decide it's cheaper to settle than pay for lawyers, take time off work, etc.

If you're worried about getting sued when someone else attacks you, you need to rethink your priorities.  It's one thing to try to adhere to the law, but it's another to fear someone else abusing the legal system.

Worry about the things you can control and prepare to deal with the things you can't.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: H Golf Sport on January 05, 2024, 09:10:56 AM
This is HI!!!

If you had shot him for carjacking, immediately you’d be arrested and charged for murder. If not shot by HPD.

He would have been suddenly a good kid out of prison and looking to turn his life around.
A victim slaughtered by an evil concealed carrier.
This is why we can’t have individuals legally carrying guns.

Need to make an example out of you.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 05, 2024, 09:28:50 AM
This is HI!!!

If you had shot him for carjacking, immediately you’d be arrested and charged for murder. If not shot by HPD.

He would have been suddenly a good kid out of prison and looking to turn his life around.
A victim slaughtered by an evil concealed carrier.
This is why we can’t have individuals legally carrying guns.

Need to make an example out of you.

The communist state of hawaii that we live in is just begrudgingly and barely complying with the Bruen decision.  Because they have to.  They've set booby traps along the way for law abiding citizens who choose to apply for a CW license.

Our communist state of hawaii and the goons that run it do not embrace the 2nd amendment.  They took the oath of office just to get in and start their communist ways.  There was no conviction when they said their oath.  They might as well have said " Yeah, yeah, whatever.  Let's get this BS oath out of the way".

The 2nd amendment is a mindset.  A mindset by Americans who believe in Freedom.  If this mindset is not shared by those who run government, they will work to eliminate it.

This is what is what is happening in the banana republik of hawaii.

Smiling faces.  Smiling faces......they lie.  They don't tell the truth.  Not everywhere, but it is happening here.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: Sodie on January 05, 2024, 08:20:06 PM
I had made this same hypothetical statement.

In all seriousness and in the spirit of avoiding any unnecessary legal troubles, would a legal concealed carry holder actually be able to draw and fire shots at the suspect? After all, the suspect pointed a gun at her face and told  her to "get out" of her car.

What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

One answer is to hope he doesn't do anything to you but take your car, which is what happened for the sake of Ms. Valentine.

There are a couple of questions to consider here: 1) Would you be legally justified in using force? What about deadly force? 2) Would it be tactically sound to try to draw and fire in that situation?

For the legal piece, Hawaii law says:

Quote from: Hawaii Revised Statutes
§703-304  Use of force in self-protection. 
     (1)  Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.
     (2)  The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
     (3)  Except as otherwise provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.

…and the exceptions don’t apply to this situation.  So it looks like using force would be legally justified (but not necessarily deadly force), since the guy was immediately about to use unlawful force against you.  You can use force without retreat or surrendering property… unless something in subsection (4) or (5) applies.

Subsection (5) says:

Quote from: HRS 703-304
(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:

(b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:…

So if you believed you could surrender your car with “complete safety,” no deadly force authorized.

Would it be tactically sound?  Too many variables to know, but I think your best option would probably be to floor it and haul ass.
Title: Re: Happy New Year! WTF is going on Today?
Post by: ren on January 06, 2024, 07:20:26 AM
and this how we get more anti 2a laws...the govt could have done "more"
with all the corruption going on with local govt. I'm amazed at how much the public pushes for "more" instead of demanding more of themselves...pro 2a , pro self-defense

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/01/06/loved-ones-say-police-could-have-done-more-protect-victim-big-island-murder-suicide/