2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: MrJones on July 11, 2024, 12:12:08 AM
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Does anyone know the purpose of loading only 5 rounds in the magazine at kokohead?
Jones
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I was told in case there's a run away gun, the muzzle won't climb towards the hikers.
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I was told in case there's a run away gun, the muzzle won't climb towards the hikers.
...
Or yourself...or the guy next to you
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I guess to keep things simple this applies to revolvers and bolt action scout type rifles also. ::)
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The only justification I can think of -- which doesn't stray into the very unlikely category (runaway guns firing on their own) -- is to facilitate cease fires.
For safety, it's better to let someone empty a mag or cylinder of all live rounds before clearing it. So, when a cease fire is called, you should completely fire all loaded rounds and only then clear the gun before stepping away from the line.
Having 5 rounds loaded restricts the amount of time it will take to fire all rounds.
A rule won't stop someone intending to go postal at the range from loading as many rounds as the gun will hold or having as many loaded guns as they can carry.
If 5 rounds in a malfunctioning gun is "safer", why not limit it to 3 rds per reload? or 1 rd? I can't see the logic given the rarity of a runaway malfunction happening. Keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction downrange should suffice if that happens. Sounds like a compromise between a '"what if" which may never happen' and 'making a range visit useless' in terms of effective practice.
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It's cause those who make the rules hate the 2a.
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The only justification I can think of -- which doesn't stray into the very unlikely category (runaway guns firing on their own) -- is to facilitate cease fires.
It probably happens more than you think. Considering about 50,000 people a year that use the public side ranges. Consider they types of guns being shot. Bad modifications. Rusty gun left In a closet for 30 years. Antique guns. Not correctly assembled. Then the type of people shooting guns to include never touched a gun before or shoot my gun once every few years.
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I guess to keep things simple this applies to revolvers and bolt action scout type rifles also. ::)
Doesn't apply to revolvers. I'm guessing it doesn't apply to bolt or lever guns, gotta confirm with the RSO.
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It probably happens more than you think. Considering about 50,000 people a year that use the public side ranges. Consider they types of guns being shot. Bad modifications. Rusty gun left In a closet for 30 years. Antique guns. Not correctly assembled. Then the type of people shooting guns to include never touched a gun before or shoot my gun once every few years.
Most common cause I've seen reported online is a soft primer being struck by the firing pin when cycled into battery. Brass ejects, next live round gets loaded, bolt slams forward, pin contacts primer. That's plausible especially if the headspace is wrong. In a semi-auto, this could cause a continuous firing scenario.
Maybe a better rule would be to load one round, then two, all the way to 5 until you've function tested a rusted, antique or homebuilt firearm ... or even a factory new firearm you've never used. When it's shown to be safe, then load up to the legal 10.
Simply making all properly functioning guns follow the same rules intended for malfunctioning guns is not justified IMO if you have rules in place that make more sense.
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Doesn't apply to revolvers. I'm guessing it doesn't apply to bolt or lever guns, gotta confirm with the RSO.
It does apply to revolvers. I was told by a RSO that he counted six shots from my revolver. He reminded me of the five round rule.
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It does apply to revolvers. I was told by a RSO that he counted six shots from my revolver. He reminded me of the five round rule.
That goes completely against the whole "to prevent slam fire repetitious discharges in a malfunctioning semi auto" theory, huh?
More evidence that this justification is bogus since they apply it to every firearm.
Apparently this malfunction problem only exists on the pistol and rifle range, since you can have more rounds loaded at the Silly Side and Action Bays.
Safety? Right.
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I swear I remember an old, dilapidated, bust up sign stating revolvers were exempt.
But now that they make revolvers that can hold 7, 8, and 10 rds in the cylinder, I'd bet they took that sign down.
Yeah, PITA to cowboy load 5 rounds in a SA revolver.
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exception is an M1 Garand because it uses CLIPS
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It does apply to revolvers. I was told by a RSO that he counted six shots from my revolver. He reminded me of the five round rule.
The past RSOs said revolvers are not.included as they don't have a magazine. Just get clarification from the supervisor as there are a lot of new RSOs now.
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The past RSOs said revolvers are not.included as they don't have a magazine. Just get clarification from the supervisor as there are a lot of new RSOs now.
This was from an old-timer RSO that I know.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
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This is one of the many issues surrounding the range that tells me there's nobody in charge of it who really cares.
if they did, all the rules, FAQs, and other useful info would be posted online and updated as soon as there are changes.
Communication is lacking, you might say. Why is it necessary for everyone with the same question to ask a different RSO when they could more easily find the answer on a webpage?
I thought technology would save the human race. Seems to be good for entertainment purposes only when it comes to government-run organizations.
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just a few weeks ago a RSO told me can load 6 with a revolver. all these years I just assumed it was 5
I forgot to ask about my 7 and 8 shot revolvers. next time I'll ask
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a few years ago on rifle side I overheard a conversation between a guy and a RSO
guy asked why can only shoot 5?
RSO said it doesn't matter why. that's the rule :rofl:
that's good enuff reason for me
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This is one of the many issues surrounding the range that tells me there's nobody in charge of it who really cares.
if they did, all the rules, FAQs, and other useful info would be posted online and updated as soon as there are changes.
Communication is lacking, you might say. Why is it necessary for everyone with the same question to ask a different RSO when they could more easily find the answer on a webpage?
I thought technology would save the human race. Seems to be good for entertainment purposes only when it comes to government-run organizations.
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I don't know if this is very current. It looks pretty current.
https://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html
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a few years ago on rifle side I overheard a conversation between a guy and a RSO
guy asked why can only shoot 5?
RSO said it doesn't matter why. that's the rule :rofl:
that's good enuff reason for me
My gut tells me most of the rules are exactly that: Because we said so.
Too bad the bad rules are mingled in with those that actually do increase safety. Makes range goers less likely to follow the rules if so many make no sense.
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I don't know if this is very current. It looks pretty current.
https://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html
"Usr [sic] the proper ammunition and load no more than 5 rounds in the magazine."
So, if you don't have a magazine, any number is okay? Does a cylinder qualify as a magazine? Would "firearm" have been more specific than "magazine?"
Someone who wants to help range goers follow the rules would not be so ambiguous. Otherwise, you are creating room for alternate interpretations.
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"Usr [sic] the proper ammunition and load no more than 5 rounds in the magazine."
So, if you don't have a magazine, any number is okay? Does a cylinder qualify as a magazine? Would "firearm" have been more specific than "magazine?"
Someone who wants to help range goers follow the rules would not be so ambiguous. Otherwise, you are creating room for alternate interpretations.
Cylinders are not magazines. It stores ammunition in multiple chambers.
There are other types of magazines like tube magazine, or bolt guns, sks, and M1 garands have internal magazines.
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just a few weeks ago a RSO told me can load 6 with a revolver. all these years I just assumed it was 5
I forgot to ask about my 7 and 8 shot revolvers. next time I'll ask
Me too. I just say to myself, Aahhhh, just do 5.....
One time I was admiring this guy's revolver. Not sure what brand it was. A double action .22 revolver what looked liked a 10 rd. cylinder. Oooh I like buy one, I thought to myself.
I don't think he was following the 5 rd. max rule.
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Cylinders are not magazines. It stores ammunition in multiple chambers.
There are other types of magazines like tube magazine, or bolt guns, sks, and M1 garands have internal magazines.
I know all of that. Pump shotguns often have >5rd magazines. That is another non-semi-auto firearm that would not experience more than a single slam fire discharge if it's malfunctioning -- assuming the operator is smart enough to stop cycling the action.
By the way, some revolvers can accept spare cylinders already loaded. That almost functions as a removable magazine. :geekdanc:
What I'm seeing is an inconsistent interpretation of what ought to be a specifically-worded and straight forward rule.
Semi-auto -- 5 rd rule applies. Any other action -- 5 rd rule doesn't apply.
Makes more sense to me if the rationale is really in case of malfunctions. That assumes the cease-fire slowdown or any other reason doesn't factor in.
If you ask an RSO at the range whether you can load 10 rounds in a Ruger GP100 10-Shot .22 LR Revolver, would you expect to debate them on the fact a cylinder is not a magazine? Or would they tell you it's fine -- no magazine, so load to full capacity?
:shaka:
https://youtu.be/FiQFANQ_h5c
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i don't think that the word "often" is appropriate here...
I know all of that. Pump shotguns often have >5rd magazines. That is another non-semi-auto firearm that would not experience more than a single slam fire discharge if it's malfunctioning -- assuming the operator is smart enough to stop cycling the action.
By the way, some revolvers can accept spare cylinders already loaded. That almost functions as a removable magazine. :geekdanc:
What I'm seeing is an inconsistent interpretation of what ought to be a specifically-worded and straight forward rule.
Semi-auto -- 5 rd rule applies. Any other action -- 5 rd rule doesn't apply.
Makes more sense to me if the rationale is really in case of malfunctions. That assumes the cease-fire slowdown or any other reason doesn't factor in.
If you ask an RSO at the range whether you can load 10 rounds in a Ruger GP100 10-Shot .22 LR Revolver, would you expect to debate them on the fact a cylinder is not a magazine? Or would they tell you it's fine -- no magazine, so load to full capacity?
:shaka:
https://youtu.be/FiQFANQ_h5c
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You could join an action pistol club. They allow up to the legal limit. There is something going on every weekend. But you probably have to pass a safety and proficiency test.
There are a lot of clubs out there.
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i don't think that the word "often" is appropriate here...
I don't think the word you decided to call out matters here.
https://www.classicfirearms.com/radikal-p3-pump-18-5-tactical-shotgun/
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I haven't a clue, but if I had to take a guess, it's because it slows things down, giving the RSO's a chance to give each person a gander and make sure everyone is keeping safe. I guy showing up with 10 mags 30 rounds each could shoot 100 by the time the RSO has a chance to make sure he is being safe. I don't know, just a thought. I know 5 at a time makes me day longer and cheaper.