2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: hvybarrels on December 04, 2024, 12:00:59 PM
-
Killer apparently had to clear multiple jams so my guess is that he was not a professional.
The private security industry is about to get a massive boost in business.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ceo-unitedhealthcare-killed-alleged-targeted-attack-manhattan
-
They recovered 3 spend cases and 3 live rounds. Vid shows the gun jammed after every shot. At first I thought maybe he used a non-semiauto. But since live rounds were found, this means jam. And that the shooter knew this because there was no hesitation for him to rack the slide between shots. Due to so many jams, prob 3D or P80 build.
-
First thing I see is a coward, not even looking his victim in the face.
I find it odd theres a noticable puff of smoke coming out of the ejection port. Never shot a suppressed pistol before so don't know if that's normal. Could be the pistol is really tuned to be silent at the expense of reliability. Shooter looked like he shot with good technique and knew how to unjam it, so purposefully went with that configuration of pistol.
-
My guess it was a contract killer. Not sure if they are considered cowards or not.
Strictly business.
-
i respectfully disagree
a contract killer would have likely had a gun that had been tested and no malfunctions
and would've closed distance and made sure target was dead...
My guess it was a contract killer. Not sure if they are considered cowards or not.
Strictly business.
-
i respectfully disagree
a contract killer would have likely had a gun that had been tested and no malfunctions
and would've closed distance and made sure target was dead...
Or made it look like an accident/random mugging
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/exclusive-new-documents-released-seth-rich-case-lead-questions-like-took-seth-richs-personal-laptop-house-murder/
-
Looks like it was political
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/unitedhealthcare-ceo-assassination-bullet-casings-inscribed-deny-defend-depose
-
Maybe jams were not actually jams but were purposeful from light loads? I’ve never shot or reloaded subsonic rounds but I wonder if the lighter loads prevented the slide from retracting making the gun shot even quieter.
-
Jams/malfunctions? ???
Some of the early reports I read/heard made it sound like a John Wick level hit. . . as in stoking fear, hysteria, sensationalizing. . .
I've shot suppressed pistols and some can be load sensitive. So many variables though.
-
Jams/malfunctions? ???
Some of the early reports I read/heard made it sound like a John Wick level hit. . . as in stoking fear, hysteria, sensationalizing. . .
I've shot suppressed pistols and some can be load sensitive. So many variables though.
Out if curiosity, I did some browsing to see what issues are common among suppressed handgun shooters.
The number one tip i see is to meticulously clean and lube the firearm. I assume there is residue that is normally expelled through an unsuppressed barrel which wind up being blown back through the slide -- hence the additional dark-ish smoke exhausting through the ejection port.
A handgun that's already experiencing excess friction from a lack of cleaning/lubrication could experience malfunctions as the suppressor adds more filth which can reduce the cycling force.
If using low pressure/subsonic ammo, the amount of force generated will also be reduced.
I have no idea if any of this applies to the recent shooting. I hope they catch the guy/gal and recover the weapon for testing. It would be nice to learn answers to some of these questions.
-
Bad tuning could've led to the jams. Modifications or heavier recoil springs to delay the slide from going back. He was expecting malfunctions and knew what to do.
The suppressor did its job. A few people saw what happened but it didn't alert the entire street.
Not a John Wick hit, but the guy has above average training and planned things well.
-
i respectfully disagree
a contract killer would have likely had a gun that had been tested and no malfunctions
and would've closed distance and made sure target was dead...
There are varying degrees of contract killer. From John Wick to do it for a couple grand.
-
Looks like it was political
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/unitedhealthcare-ceo-assassination-bullet-casings-inscribed-deny-defend-depose
inscribed bullet brass makes it seem like personal to me. Either family or close relative died due to medical claim denied, or he's some unhinged extremist, Columbia or Harvard grad.
I don't think it's a pro contract hit because he slipped up several times by showing up on some security cams unmasked. That's somebody who's "not in the business". Contract killer would leave as few clues as possible, trying to leave none, if possible.
just my 2 cents. and I'm not in the business, I don't operate, I just watch movies, internet, read spy fiction, and enthusiastically kibbitz from the side-lines. First Class seats in the Peanut-Gallery all the way.
-
There are varying degrees of contract killer. From John Wick to do it for a couple grand.
do you take venmo? (its a joke)
-
reports saying b & t 9
very uncommon gun...
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bC7XZGoJP8
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bC7XZGoJP8
==========
Good video with solid info, but there is so much fake crap on the internet today you don't know what to believe anymore.
Right after the shooting occurred, I saw some pictures on a "news" article with pictures of unfired projectiles.
Same thing as the Hanna Kobayashi missing girl case.
Psuedo-news sites grab pictures from anywhere to get internet clicks which generate revenue.
AKA, clickbait.
-
do you take venmo? (its a joke)
Feds got you now
-
My employer will be switching my medical coverage from UHC to HMSA as of Jan. 2025.
2024 was an EXPENSIVE year for me in regards to health care costs. I would have been better
off if the change back to HMSA was made prior to 2024 but oh well at least I still have coverage.
Check out Dan's video on this subject. He has more info on UHC and their CEO.
https://youtu.be/IPpBGKXdOuE
-
Turns out the B&T Station Six-9 is non ejecting so it wasn’t a malfunction.
Looks like a purpose built tool for assassination.
https://bt-usa.com/products/station-six-9/
So why use something like that if he was planning on leaving shells at the scene to send a political message?
Curious choices.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8XHxUlg0F8
-
Apparently with the wipe baffles it’s insanely quiet, so it might buy him an extra few seconds of getaway time.
But there’s only 250 of them registered in the US and they are like $6000 for the kit.
Between Gucci gun, the ebike and his designer backpack it doesn’t look like this guy was hurting for money.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv916w3vd_Y
-
i don't think the weapons is that B&T VP9.
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1864376425685438810 (https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1864376425685438810)
if you slo-mo the video, down to 0.25x speed, blow it up to full-screen (monitor on a desk-top, forget looking at it on a dinky little mobile phone screen), for the first shot, you can clearly see the slide cycling. conventional semi-auto like.
also, from how the shooter manipulates the slide to clear the malfunction, he grasps the slide normal-like, and pulls it straight back. also, when he has to tap it into battery, that's also something for normal semi-auto pistol. Also, from the grainy video, doesn't look like a hammer-fired pistol, so, striker-fired.
looks like it failed to eject on the first shot, so he clears the malfunction and takes a second shot.. malfunctions again, he's clearing the malfunction while walking up to the victim to take the next shot. From the 2nd shot onwards, it's too grainy to make anything out, also, no audio.
could be one of those common 9-mills, after all, he traveled from-or-through Atlanta on his way to NYC.
but I'm no expert.
also, video shows the backpack as gray, however, the backpack found in the park was blue. Could be the lighting from the flashlight. Tactical flashlight, cough, excuse me. The sidewalk shooting security video is in color, and doesn't show the backpack to be blue. ???
time will tell, we shall see. OTOH, it being the Eff Bee Eye, maybe we'll never know.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcXtYnNqTrA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcXtYnNqTrA)
-
i don't think the weapons is that B&T VP9.
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1864376425685438810 (https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1864376425685438810)
if you slo-mo the video, down to 0.25x speed, blow it up to full-screen (monitor on a desk-top, forget looking at it on a dinky little mobile phone screen), for the first shot, you can clearly see the slide cycling. conventional semi-auto like.
Could still be the B&T, depends if it can be fired with the bolt unlocked or not and if it will cycle rounds from the magazine with the bolt unlocked when fired. I can surmise the unlocked bolt could be cycled with an overhand grip.
Edit: Reviewing it again, it wouldn't have a recoil spring so the bolt would stay back even if it could be fired unlocked.
-
B&T is also marketed as a veterinary pistol.
These distinctions will be important in this upcoming legislature session when I'm sure some Everytown expert will try to claim this was a ghost gun.
It's not like they have any shame when it comes to twisting the facts.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbY6lo0RIw
-
This video claims that the shooter was an amateur. It opens up a can of worms as far as how many unanswered questions remain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSFqmqiomM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlSFqmqiomM)
The victim may not be CEO Thompson, for all we know. Did his wife ID the body? Why would someone stage something as crazy as this idea? This is 'murica, that's why.
The shooter may or may not be discovered for weeks. Many in the public may even hide him while the manhunt goes on.
How many states allow the shooter to practice on a range using a handgun with a suppressor attached? If he practiced on a private lot, that would be a different story, but no range owner has come forth to id the guy.
-
This video claims that the shooter was an amateur. It opens up a can of worms as far as how many unanswered questions remain.
The victim may not be CEO Thompson, for all we know. Did his wife ID the body? Why would someone stage something as crazy as this idea? This is 'murica, that's why.
The shooter may or may not be discovered for weeks. Many in the public may even hide him while the manhunt goes on.
How many states allow the shooter to practice on a range using a handgun with a suppressor attached? If he practiced on a private lot, that would be a different story, but no range owner has come forth to id the guy.
Range owners don't usually work the range check in. They hire people for that stuff. If it's a tiny range, then maybe the owner works every shift, but a range of any size has a staff to work the range, gun shop, etc.
How many mainland ranges in how many states have you frequented?
One I used in NC a couple of times has a suppressor "club" to help customers legally acquire suppressors by filing out the NFA application. They also offered a trust to transfer your suppressors into so any trust member you designate was allowed to own/use them. Before the ATF changed the rules, the Form 1 that is used to transfer an NFA item required a local law enforcement signature. The rule had an exception for trusts which became the main reason to get a trust. That reason for a trust no longer exists, but having a trust helps with estate planning and sharing of suppressors, etc. NFA items are not always transferrable, but a trust will survive the owner eliminating the risk of NFA item/s being confiscated and destroyed upon the owner's death.
Anyway, gun ranges/shops that do these kind of sales also allow use of suppressors by their members. That specific range had 2 range locations -- one indoor for handguns and one outdoor for very large caliber handguns and rifles of any size.
One of that range's rules says something you won't ever see in Hawaii:
Shooters under the age of 14 may not fire any full automatics. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
They have 18 on another list of rules for the indoor range, so it may or may not be 18 for both ranges.
https://shootersexpress.com/shop-2/nfa-class-iii/
-
Some more cctv images of the assassin just released
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/qSKjOXrM_-VOFaXl4Abjnf_SeBWrwMbFb4YQ_5y0n30/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9zdGF0/aWMxLmNicmltYWdl/cy5jb20vd29yZHBy/ZXNzL3dwLWNvbnRl/bnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8y/MDIzLzAyL3NweS13/YXJucy10aGUtdGVh/bS10ZWFtLWZvcnRy/ZXNzLTIuanBn)
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/mqqw3CcRMLVty_4vs9AMoDJmlHTy51h-f9aIqEk7v98/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9zdGF0/aWMud2lraWEubm9j/b29raWUubmV0L3Rm/Y29taWNzL2ltYWdl/cy9lL2UzL1NweS0w/LlBORy9yZXZpc2lv/bi9sYXRlc3Qvc2Nh/bGUtdG8td2lkdGgt/ZG93bi8yNTA_Y2I9/MjAxNDA3MTMwMTEy/MTE)
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/QdXYbsn3AIWevBp3DGwLoYVtWG5ZMUKKYfQuCqEz6E4/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9jZG4u/bW9zLmNtcy5mdXR1/cmVjZG4ubmV0Lzkz/R1RqODlyV2lSWnNI/dUxGUEJBSG0tMzIw/LTgwLmpwZw)
-
Vast majority of ranges don't care if a firearm is suppressed in the legal states. A few may ban it along with things like human silhouette targets, assault weapons, and such.
Shooter looked like he had some skills, equivalent to a little more than basic CCW training.
-
How many states allow the shooter to practice on a range using a handgun with a suppressor attached? If he practiced on a private lot, that would be a different story, but no range owner has come forth to id the guy.
Initial report said he's from GA. GA allows suppressors. Whether the ranges do or not, IDK. I've never looked into it. But I have looked into a state like NV (Vegas). Suppressors are legal and you can use them in the range. Indoor or Clark County public range. They do not check ID, nor do they have a gun registration. 1 gun store that I know of named Ventura Munition sells suppressors and has a sponsored SupresorCo tablet that helps you apply for your taxstamp at the store (online). I've seen multiple other stores selling suppressors as well.
So even if the shooter lived in NYC that has strict handgun/suppressors laws, he can just drive and practice elsewhere. Or go into the forest to practice. It would only take less than 30 seconds to figure out if your handgun functions or not. So 2am and doing car pops on an empty road could be done as well. Now fixing the issue for a malfunction is another story.
In my observation, the shooter did know his gun wouldn't cycle, which is why he was so quick to rack the slide. I don't think he used a B&T as the racking was very quick. Could he have practiced, sure. But what would be easier is to 3D print a gun or buy a stolen gun. I'm leaning toward 3D print due to the jamming.
-
Range owners don't usually work the range check in. They hire people for that stuff. If it's a tiny range, then maybe the owner works every shift, but a range of any size has a staff to work the range, gun shop, etc.
How many mainland ranges in how many states have you frequented?
One I used in NC a couple of times has a suppressor "club" to help customers legally acquire suppressors by filing out the NFA application. They also offered a trust to transfer your suppressors into so any trust member you designate was allowed to own/use them. Before the ATF changed the rules, the Form 1 that is used to transfer an NFA item required a local law enforcement signature. The rule had an exception for trusts which became the main reason to get a trust. That reason for a trust no longer exists, but having a trust helps with estate planning and sharing of suppressors, etc. NFA items are not always transferrable, but a trust will survive the owner eliminating the risk of NFA item/s being confiscated and destroyed upon the owner's death.
Anyway, gun ranges/shops that do these kind of sales also allow use of suppressors by their members. That specific range had 2 range locations -- one indoor for handguns and one outdoor for very large caliber handguns and rifles of any size.
One of that range's rules says something you won't ever see in Hawaii:
Shooters under the age of 14 may not fire any full automatics. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
They have 18 on another list of rules for the indoor range, so it may or may not be 18 for both ranges.
https://shootersexpress.com/shop-2/nfa-class-iii/
I've never seen a RSO at KHSC check ID"s or reg either. I wonder what their SOP is if someone were to shoot a real suppressor. Would they call HPD or tell them to leave? I've seen many with faux suppressors for various calibers, including 22. RSO's never looked twice at the 22LR faux ones either. Maybe they know what a 22LR is supposed to sound like unsuppressed.
-
Lots of "experts" coming out of the woodworks. The worst ones are the anti 2as who continue to make up terms for things they don't have an understanding of. "ghost guns" is such a stupid term. It was concocted just to project their fear in the general public. Why don't we apply this fake term concept to vehicles that aren't registered. The whole premise behind this is government control. Govt fears what it can not control. How about a new term Baba Yaga.
-
Lots of "experts" coming out of the woodworks. The worst ones are the anti 2as who continue to make up terms for things they don't have an understanding of. "ghost guns" is such a stupid term. It was concocted just to project their fear in the general public. Why don't we apply this fake term concept to vehicles that aren't registered. The whole premise behind this is government control. Govt fears what it can not control. How about a new term Baba Yaga.
I thought u were gonna post "range too far".
-
Suspect allegedly arrested with a ghost gun and suppressor
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/12/09/man-being-held-questioning-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-reports-say/
-
Definitely an idiot and not a pro if he kept all that stuff on him. He could've ditched it anywhere in the past week.
-
Or an attention whore. Even willing to be prosecuted because he will be headlines. Might even orgasm during the process.
-
Or an attention whore. Even willing to be prosecuted because he will be headlines. Might even orgasm during the process.
Or be an orgasm causer in prison.
-
Suspect allegedly arrested with a ghost gun and suppressor
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/12/09/man-being-held-questioning-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-reports-say/
geez, another loser with ties to Hawaii. (Trump golf-course wannabe assassin)
if it is the guy, and he still had the gun, and the clothes from the shooting, and the fake IDs he used, then he is truly a moron.
Maybe a Kamala voter.
-
geez, another loser with ties to Hawaii. (Trump golf-course wannabe assassin)
if it is the guy, and he still had the gun, and the clothes from the shooting, and the fake IDs he used, then he is truly a moron.
Maybe a Kamala voter.
He is against climate change and capitalism.
-
An Atoona McDonald's employee ought to be $60,000 richer today!
:thumbsup:
All the speculation about him being a professional hitman for hire seems to have been just that - speculation. He's nowhere near a professional. If he were, we'd never know anything about him.
He should have watched more movies if he intended to not get caught.
Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.
-
He is against climate change and capitalism.
China is likely the biggest contributor of greenhouse gases to the climate change problem.
Is China a capitalist economy?
:crazy: :geekdanc:
The economy of the People's Republic of China is a developing
mixed socialist market economy, incorporating industrial policies
and strategic five-year plans.[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China
Seems like he's just another hater of the US. He should have moved to a country more to his liking to get that Socialist free healthcare.
-
DDXq7U5yKuk/?igsh=cnB3ejJqOWgzc3E4
-
He is against climate change and capitalism.
Starbucks customer was the first clue
-
-
I dunno why I need to say this but he looks like Jake Gyllenhaal the actor.
When he still had the hoodie on and at an angle.
Why it even matters shows my retardedness.
-
I dunno why I need to say this but he looks like Jake Gyllenhaal the actor.
When he still had the hoodie on and at an angle.
Why it even matters shows my retardedness.
Nothing wrong with stating an opinion. This forum would be really boring and a lot smaller if we didn't post comments triggered by word or picture associations.
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
-
He never learned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD-I_SxBGjg
-
turns out Luigi Mangione's gun was a G19-type semi-auto.
there's some info on Mr GnG's twitter page, posted earlier today.
https://x.com/Mrgunsngear (https://x.com/Mrgunsngear)
also:
https://x.com/ThatDudeTaco/status/1866212659424645304 (https://x.com/ThatDudeTaco/status/1866212659424645304)
https://x.com/ThatDudeTaco/status/1866219702097195470/photo/2 (https://x.com/ThatDudeTaco/status/1866219702097195470/photo/2)
-
"I was a-framed!"
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/6uajnKxDHrNLVvayQxVxKC2eOZ-TS63cypwPfMBoJBI/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWdj/ZG4uc3RhYmxlZGlm/ZnVzaW9ud2ViLmNv/bS8yMDI0LzExLzI1/LzgxYjg4MWU0LWUw/ZjMtNGRjZi05MjAx/LTIyYmZmMThiMjEy/MC5qcGc)
-
The McDonalds Yelp is hilarious what people are leaving as a review.
-
A Manifesto was posted that the news agencies are starting to run with. I noticed something curious.
"To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience."
Why would he mention basic CAD? You don't need to know any CAD in order to produce a functional firearm, just download the stl file and drop it in a slicer.
This sounds like the kind of line that was inserted in order to justify the current push for printer registration, parts bans, and spyware.
The more I look at this story the less it makes sense.
-
3D printing isn't as simple as double clicking a file to open it. This is what I was told as I don't own a 3D printer.
Maybe he made the file himself? He has some CAD experience.
The McDonalds employee also will wait a while if they even do get the full $60K that has to go thru multiple approvals. "upon conviction" is the key.
-
3D printing isn't as simple as double clicking a file to open it. This is what I was told as I don't own a 3D printer.
Maybe he made the file himself? He has some CAD experience.
The McDonalds employee also will wait a while if they even do get the full $60K that has to go thru multiple approvals. "upon conviction" is the key.
Actually, it can be that easy, but only if you're lucky or have someone helping you.
3D printing is a process that uses a variety of printer, software and raw material brands and types. A CAD file that works perfectly on your setup might create a huge mess on someone else's. In that case, you'll need troubleshooting and technical skills to get that file to work for you.
If you've ever tried to open a Microsoft Word document on 3 different versions of MS Word, you know what i mean. Macros, fonts, templates, relocation of features and tool buttons, and printer drivers can produce a variety of problems unique to each Word version.
Standards are great, but they are subject to change! :geekdanc:
There's no guarantee
-
Printing is actually stupid easy now. I was waiting to get into it until the costs came down and ease of use was acceptable and we just entered that era. I haven’t printed any guns because it’s illegal under state law and therefore an unnecessary risk, but I believe that I have the right to do so since privately made firearms are a well documented practice in history and tradition. Hopefully the courts agree some day, but in the meantime I’m saving a ton of money on all sorts of other tools and accessories.
You really can just drop in a file and get good results, but it does require a bit of experimenting in order to get the filament, temperatures, and supports dialed in. I figured it out with the help of online videos and there are huge repositories of designs so knowledge of cad is no barrier at first.
The reason I question why Luigi would bother to design his own gun is because there are so many designs out there where the r&d has already been done and the shopping list included in the notes. It makes no sense to reinvent the wheel, and requires a lot more knowledge than “basic cad” as he stated.
I’m getting the feeling that the war on printing is here, not only because it cuts into corporate profits but also tax revenues. I can make a full set of magpul furniture and tweak it any way I want for a pocketful of change without contributing anything to Matson, Da Rail, or HPD’s robot dog fund and I’m pretty sure our state government is threatened by that concept.
-
Printing is actually stupid easy now. I was waiting to get into it until the costs came down and ease of use was acceptable and we just entered that era. I haven’t printed any guns because it’s illegal under state law and therefore an unnecessary risk, but I believe that I have the right to do so since privately made firearms are a well documented practice in history and tradition. Hopefully the courts agree some day, but in the meantime I’m saving a ton of money on all sorts of other tools and accessories.
You really can just drop in a file and get good results, but it does require a bit of experimenting in order to get the filament, temperatures, and supports dialed in. I figured it out with the help of online videos and there are huge repositories of designs so knowledge of cad is no barrier at first.
The reason I question why Luigi would bother to design his own gun is because there are so many designs out there where the r&d has already been done and the shopping list included in the notes. It makes no sense to reinvent the wheel, and requires a lot more knowledge than “basic cad” as he stated.
I’m getting the feeling that the war on printing is here, not only because it cuts into corporate profits but also tax revenues. I can make a full set of magpul furniture and tweak it any way I want for a pocketful of change without contributing anything to Matson, Da Rail, or HPD’s robot dog fund and I’m pretty sure our state government is threatened by that concept.
...unless you're concerned the repositories for those CAD files is being monitored.
Just throwing that out since trying to guess the mind of an assassin who allegedly got caught the next day also makes no sense.
-
...unless you're concerned the repositories for those CAD files is being monitored.
Just throwing that out since trying to guess the mind of an assassin who allegedly got caught the next day also makes no sense.
The repositories themseles remind you that you're being monitored, especially with the files that reference NFA items.
There are ways around that which are much easier than the R&D process of brand new designs.
Either way it makes me wonder how a guy of high intelligence who went through all that trouble and planning would travel with incriminating gear.
That's a retard level mistake and makes the whole thing smell like a setup.
-
The McDonalds Yelp is hilarious what people are leaving as a review.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona (https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona)
-
https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona (https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona)
Creative Writing Class. :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
-
https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona (https://www.yelp.com/biz/mcdonalds-altoona)
Wow people are really angry that he got caught. The rat references are dark but hilarious.
Better screen cap before Yelp takes it down.
-
Printing is actually stupid easy now. I was waiting to get into it until the costs came down and ease of use was acceptable and we just entered that era. I haven’t printed any guns because it’s illegal under state law and therefore an unnecessary risk, but I believe that I have the right to do so since privately made firearms are a well documented practice in history and tradition. Hopefully the courts agree some day, but in the meantime I’m saving a ton of money on all sorts of other tools and accessories.
You really can just drop in a file and get good results, but it does require a bit of experimenting in order to get the filament, temperatures, and supports dialed in. I figured it out with the help of online videos and there are huge repositories of designs so knowledge of cad is no barrier at first.
The reason I question why Luigi would bother to design his own gun is because there are so many designs out there where the r&d has already been done and the shopping list included in the notes. It makes no sense to reinvent the wheel, and requires a lot more knowledge than “basic cad” as he stated.
I’m getting the feeling that the war on printing is here, not only because it cuts into corporate profits but also tax revenues. I can make a full set of magpul furniture and tweak it any way I want for a pocketful of change without contributing anything to Matson, Da Rail, or HPD’s robot dog fund and I’m pretty sure our state government is threatened by that concept.
to my untrained eye, Luigi's pistol, the frame is one of those incomplete frames you used to be able to buy maybe 5 years ago, now severely curtailed, plain illegal here in Aloha Spirit Hawaii Nei. Identifiable by the styling cues by the take-down latch, etc. They used to be very popular before govt decided too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
I'm sure the styling cues could be programmed in 3D printing, but why bother with the cosmetics, just more lines of code to write.
-
Or he had someone else 3d print it for him.
-
The guy seems to be enjoying his "celebrity" status. Hope he goes to prison so he can really appreciate his "celebrity" status.
Yes, he will be the center of attention of all the inmates. More than he will ever know or want.
-
The guy seems to be enjoying his "celebrity" status. Hope he goes to prison so he can really appreciate his "celebrity" status.
Yes, he will be the center of attention of all the inmates. More than he will ever know or want.
For a situtation like this, if not the inmate, maybe their family was affected by denied coverage. So he might be OK.
The McDonalds employee called the wrong number for the reward. She called 911 and not the other number. But, it still has to go thru the lengthy review process and a conviction. So ETA at best probably a year. But she would have to split it with the 2 other customers who were jokinly saying that the guy looks like the shooter, which prompt'd her to call 911.
She also no longer is able to come to work due to all the hate that location is getting. In all, sounds like a bad move on her part. Wait till her name is released on social media.
-
For a situtation like this, if not the inmate, maybe their family was affected by denied coverage. So he might be OK.
The McDonalds employee called the wrong number for the reward. She called 911 and not the other number. But, it still has to go thru the lengthy review process and a conviction. So ETA at best probably a year. But she would have to split it with the 2 other customers who were jokinly saying that the guy looks like the shooter, which prompt'd her to call 911.
She also no longer is able to come to work due to all the hate that location is getting. In all, sounds like a bad move on her part. Wait till her name is released on social media.
if someone walks up to you in a casino and tells you, "I think that Mega Bucks macine is going to hit soon," and you win $30M playing it, are you supposed to split the winnings with them?
The 2 joking in the McDonalds might have called the employee's attention to the guy, but neither of those 2 took the initiative to report it. I don't think she should have to split any reward with them. She made the call -- not them. You might as well be arguing she owes the person who put her on the schedule that day, too. Not everyone who made the capture possible gets to share in the reward. Only the person who alerted police should get it. That's my opinion.
Even if she called 911, she should get the reward/s. Had she been more focused on getting the reward vs. capturing the guy, he might have left and gotten away before anyone was dispatched to the restaurant. She made the right "call" -- getting police there ASAP before the 2 joking about his resemblance made the guy nervous enough to leave.
-
if someone walks up to you in a casino and tells you, "I think that Mega Bucks macine is going to hit soon," and you win $30M playing it, are you supposed to split the winnings with them?
The 2 joking in the McDonalds might have called the employee's attention to the guy, but neither of those 2 took the initiative to report it. I don't think she should have to split any reward with them. She made the call -- not them. You might as well be arguing she owes the person who put her on the schedule that day, too. Not everyone who made the capture possible gets to share in the reward. Only the person who alerted police should get it. That's my opinion.
Even if she called 911, she should get the reward/s. Had she been more focused on getting the reward vs. capturing the guy, he might have left and gotten away before anyone was dispatched to the restaurant. She made the right "call" -- getting police there ASAP before the 2 joking about his resemblance made the guy nervous enough to leave.
I agree that the 2 joking shouldn't get any part,but the news reported that they will if it goes thru. I also agree that 911 or any like call should be allowed and not scrutinized.
-
For a situtation like this, if not the inmate, maybe their family was affected by denied coverage. So he might be OK.
The McDonalds employee called the wrong number for the reward. She called 911 and not the other number. But, it still has to go thru the lengthy review process and a conviction. So ETA at best probably a year. But she would have to split it with the 2 other customers who were jokinly saying that the guy looks like the shooter, which prompt'd her to call 911.
She also no longer is able to come to work due to all the hate that location is getting. In all, sounds like a bad move on her part. Wait till her name is released on social media.
Why is she getting hate? Genuinely curious, and have not read coverage.
So can’t work at McD’s anymore. Good. I bet or hope she gets something better. As long as it’s not come grand, “The Shooter” level conspiracy.
-
And down the rabbit hole we go...
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/0LkdX6QwLf3KWpK6xhEXdU3_zIHeb-mc-xUpZ0W-xMo/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu/Ym9yZWRwYW5kYS5j/b20vYmxvZy93cC1j/b250ZW50L3VwbG9h/ZHMvMjAyNC8xMi9s/dWlnaS1tYW5naW9u/ZS1leWVicm93LWRl/dGFpbC1pbnRlcm5l/dC1zbGV1dGhzLWZi/LXBuZ19fNzAwLmpw/Zw)
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/ItTuSn9nwGOTmQbWzVAr3CVXloVugqO4UUfyBUlHd-Y/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu/Ym9yZWRwYW5kYS5j/b20vYmxvZy93cC1j/b250ZW50L3VwbG9h/ZHMvMjAyNC8xMi8x/ODY2NjU0Nzc0ODM1/MjI0NjYwLXBuZ19f/NzAwLTEuanBn)
-
Why is she getting hate? Genuinely curious, and have not read coverage.
So can’t work at McD’s anymore. Good. I bet or hope she gets something better. As long as it’s not come grand, “The Shooter” level conspiracy.
I assume the hate is from Liberals, the same ones celebrating the assassination -- just like they celebrated and were disappointed at the failed attempt on Trump.
The comments on Yelp and X basically call the employee a rat, as if it was her duty to protect this alleged killer instead of assisting law enforcement.
I've seen reports there were fingerprints recovered on at least one water bottle near the shooting that had this person's prints. He also had the same fake ID used to check into that hostel. Some of the elements of a crime include means and opportunity. Being there at that time is opportunity. They think they recovered the firearm used in the guy's possession. Still waiting on a ballistics match, but that is pointing to means.
I don't care about the photo. People are making the assumption the earlier picture is of the assassin. What if there was another guy at that hostel who resembled the shooter? And, what if the resemblance was enough to identify the actual assassin at McD's? Maybe it's just bad luck on his part his doppelgänger was staying at the same place he was, but the double wasn't being as careful not to have his photo taken?
Stranger things have happened.
-
Why is she getting hate? Genuinely curious, and have not read coverage.
So can’t work at McD’s anymore. Good. I bet or hope she gets something better. As long as it’s not come grand, “The Shooter” level conspiracy.
There are a lot of people who support what Luigi did.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6St6le1czw
-
I was wondering what sort of program the deep state was going to salt the earth with on their way out. Now that the WW3 op is starting to fizzle it looks like they are trying to start a violent insurgency.
-
I assume the hate is from Liberals, the same ones celebrating the assassination -- just like they celebrated and were disappointed at the failed attempt on Trump.
The comments on Yelp and X basically call the employee a rat, as if it was her duty to protect this alleged killer instead of assisting law enforcement.
I've seen reports there were fingerprints recovered on at least one water bottle near the shooting that had this person's prints. He also had the same fake ID used to check into that hostel. Some of the elements of a crime include means and opportunity. Being there at that time is opportunity. They think they recovered the firearm used in the guy's possession. Still waiting on a ballistics match, but that is pointing to means.
I don't care about the photo. People are making the assumption the guy in the earlier picture is of the assassin. What if there was another guy at that hostel who resembled the shooter? And, what if the resemblance was enough to identify the actual assassin at McD's? Maybe it's just bad luck on his part his doppelgänger was staying at the same place he was, but the double wasn't being as careful not to have his photo taken?
Stranger things have happened.
Ahh. . . wonder that is the logic (of lack thereof) of that liberal line of thinking. I would think that liberals would be all over the type of almost socialistic type of medical industry approach. Which (I assume) was borne out of crap like Obamacare.
And not even getting into or looking into the conspiracy parts. Leaving that up to the forum's premier SME on tinfoil. . .
-
There are a lot of people who support what Luigi did.
I wonder if folks like rhayder support. . . maybe it. . . oh nvm
-
Why.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/luigi-mangione-fundraiser-update-as-donations-hit-milestone/ar-AA1vKHkC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=916d5224ff0443e8bae5b7f025aba0a3&ei=13
-
Why.
SNIP
Amanda G, who donated $10, wrote, "As someone who has lost abilities and opportunities due to medical issues, I support Luigi 100%! People are stripped of voices and failed by systems meant to support us. From the bottom of my heart, thank you."
She must watch The View. . .
-
As if the murder of a CEO of a Healthcare system will fix the problems of being denied care.
That Amanda lady gave $10 and even thanked the murderer.
What has this world come to.
edited to add: From the bottom of her heart. OMG.
-
As if the murder of a CEO of a Healthcare system will fix the problems of being denied care.
That Amanda lady gave $10 and even thanked the murderer.
What has this world come to.
edited to add: From the bottom of her heart. OMG.
Many have learned that the system is not fair. That sometimes you do get a bum deal out of life. Having someone else to blame for your problems, self-inflicted or not, has become a US past time. "I can't buy a house because of my student loans. The government needs to forgive (repay) my debt because blah blah someone else blah blah was lied to blah blah said my degree in Gender Studies would get me a giant salary."
-
She must watch The View. . .
What I find funny is all the people donating because they applaud what he did. The punch line is how adamant he and his lawyers are that he didn't do it.
imagine if he wins the case or the charges are dropped. Will the donors have the self awareness to see that they may not have gotten a guilty assassin they admire off? Instead, they may have helped free an innocent man who did absolutely nothing to earn their respect. :shake:
This will be interesting. :geekdanc:
-
Yup. Definitely has that BLM/Antifa fed-stroturf feel to it now. Here we go again.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GemtsTzWoAAW4VL?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GemtsUmWYAAigpV?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GemtsU1XcAAcXb9?format=jpg&name=large)
-
Why.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/luigi-mangione-fundraiser-update-as-donations-hit-milestone/ar-AA1vKHkC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=916d5224ff0443e8bae5b7f025aba0a3&ei=13
evil people
-
Article claims the murderer's lawyer had a 4 word response to people financially contributing to his defense. I couldn't find the response in the entire article. Infuriates me to no end.
I invite anyone to point out that I am wrong and just dyslexic or something.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/luigi-mangione-attorney-s-four-word-response-to-public-offers-to-pay-unitedhealthcare-ceo-suspect-s-legal-bills/ar-AA1vOqQY?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=c2ce6e6aed8543e9bde4af9d6aae049a&ei=18#
-
In typical bot ai bot fashion MSN screwed up the story. The response was to the client.
"I’ll do the talking"
https://thespun.com/trending/luigi-mangiones-lawyer-had-4-word-message-for-him-in-court
-
In typical bot ai bot fashion MSN screwed up the story. The response was to the client.
"I’ll do the talking"
https://thespun.com/trending/luigi-mangiones-lawyer-had-4-word-message-for-him-in-court
Thank you! :thumbsup:
-
Article claims the murderer's lawyer had a 4 word response to people financially contributing to his defense. I couldn't find the response in the entire article. Infuriates me to no end.
I invite anyone to point out that I am wrong and just dyslexic or something.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/luigi-mangione-attorney-s-four-word-response-to-public-offers-to-pay-unitedhealthcare-ceo-suspect-s-legal-bills/ar-AA1vOqQY?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=c2ce6e6aed8543e9bde4af9d6aae049a&ei=18#
.....
I notice just about everything I see on the internet forces you to keep scrolling and clicking to find an answer. Aka, clickbait. I believe this is how they get paid, so the more you click on a story, the more they get paid. This signals the death of good journalism and news reporting. If you recall basic writing in high-school, a good report tells you the 5 w's....who, what, why, when, and where. It should also have a "by" line to tell you who wrote the story. The by line is becoming harder to find nowadays.
-
I guess they don't have jurisdiction to charge him with murder, so they charged him with enough to hold him without bail until NY can get there with an extradition request.
Mangione faces charges of forgery, carrying a firearm without a license,
tampering with records or identification, possession of instruments of
crime, and providing false identification to law enforcement.
He also was reportedly carrying US$8000 in US currency and US$2000 in foreign currency -- a foreign nation that's not been reported that I've seen.
He also had a that fake ID, a passport and a Faraday bag, something that can prevent radio and electromagnetic waves from penetrating -- like for keeping cell phones and other devices from sending or receiving an external signal.
There's a limit of $10,000 you can travel internationally with before you have to declare it. What a coinkydink.
-
.....
I notice just about everything I see on the internet forces you to keep scrolling and clicking to find an answer. Aka, clickbait. I believe this is how they get paid, so the more you click on a story, the more they get paid. This signals the death of good journalism and news reporting. If you recall basic writing in high-school, a good report tells you the 5 w's....who, what, why, when, and where. It should also have a "by" line to tell you who wrote the story. The by line is becoming harder to find nowadays.
In this specific case, it looks like MSN/CNN inaccurately advertised in the headline a piece of information they failed to include.
It's like they noticed the response didn't match what the headline said, so they removed the response rather than fix the headling.
I could be an MSM journalist -- if I were still 10.
-
I guess they don't have jurisdiction to charge him with murder, so they charged him with enough to hold him without bail until NY can get there with an extradition request.
He also was reportedly carrying US$8000 in US currency and US$2000 in foreign currency -- a foreign nation that's not been reported that I've seen.
He also had a that fake ID, a passport and a Faraday bag, something that can prevent radio and electromagnetic waves from penetrating -- like for keeping cell phones and other devices from sending or receiving an external signal.
There's a limit of $10,000 you can travel internationally with before you have to declare it. What a coinkydink.
For a guy who is supposed to be smart, he messed up a lot after. He has the cash to go anywhere he wants via driving as it's less risky. Imagine if he just did takeout.
Seems very convenient that he had all those things on him too. Ultra still teaches one to get caught I guess.
-
For a guy who is supposed to be smart, he messed up a lot after. He has the cash to go anywhere he wants via driving as it's less risky. Imagine if he just did takeout.
Seems very convenient that he had all those things on him too. Ultra still teaches one to get caught I guess.
Yeah, i was wondering if he wanted to get caught. If he's trying to make a statement about something important enough to commit murder, maybe he craved a trial so he could be heard?
Then again, maybe he decided to eat inside the restaurant to use the restroom? Maybe the line in the drive-thru was too long?
A smart man would have tossed the evidence somewhere between Manhattan and Altoona, PA. It's just basic common sense -- don't get caught in possession of the murder weapon. it's an almost 5 hour drive from Manhattan to Altoona. Obviously there was an opportunity somewhere along the way to make sure the evidence would never be found.
(https://i.imgur.com/tMDpG7K.png)
-
Stories claim the murderer is not even covered by United Health Care.
But he did have back surgery and care and probably had claim issues.
So if you mad at the healthcare industry you go out and kill the CEO's?
-
Yeah, i was wondering if he wanted to get caught. If he's trying to make a statement about something important enough to commit murder, maybe he craved a trial so he could be heard?
Then again, maybe he decided to eat inside the restaurant to use the restroom? Maybe the line in the drive-thru was too long?
A smart man would have tossed the evidence somewhere between Manhattan and Altoona, PA. It's just basic common sense -- don't get caught in possession of the murder weapon. it's an almost 5 hour drive from Manhattan to Altoona. Obviously there was an opportunity somewhere along the way to make sure the evidence would never be found.
(https://i.imgur.com/tMDpG7K.png)
Reports said he was sitting down and eating. But so was the Maddison Stone Douglas shooter.
-
Stories claim the murderer is not even covered by United Health Care.
But he did have back surgery and care and probably had claim issues.
So if you mad at the healthcare industry you go out and kill the CEO's?
I saw 1 report that the CEO was under investigation for insider trading. IDK how legit the article is.
-
Reports said he was sitting down and eating. But so was the Maddison Stone Douglas shooter.
I get that.
Why not sit down and eat if you have to go inside to pee anyway? Many places reserve use of restrooms to patrons, so eating might have been a way to avoid undue scrutiny.
-
I get that.
Why not sit down and eat if you have to go inside to pee anyway? Many places reserve use of restrooms to patrons, so eating might have been a way to avoid undue scrutiny.
Cause you're on the run for murder. Order, take a piss and leave since you are a customer who bought something.
-
Stories claim the murderer is not even covered by United Health Care.
But he did have back surgery and care and probably had claim issues.
So if you mad at the healthcare industry you go out and kill the CEO's?
(https://i.imgur.com/4Tp1rH3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WJP3rFb.jpg)
-
Why is she getting hate? Genuinely curious, and have not read coverage.
So can’t work at McD’s anymore. Good. I bet or hope she gets something better. As long as it’s not come grand, “The Shooter” level conspiracy.
(https://i.imgur.com/URON0kr.jpg)
-
Cause you're on the run for murder. Order, take a piss and leave since you are a customer who bought something.
A sane person would think like you do.
Just sayin' ... :geekdanc:
-
TMZ reporting his lawyers office is getting flooded by people who want to pay his legal fees.
This should be a wake up call to health insurance and hospitals that the people are fed up with the prices and lack of payments.
Why does a cat scan in japan cost $45USD, but in america its $8k on the low end? Xray in taiwan cost $60 and in america $300?
Why do meds cost so much?
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
-
TMZ reporting his lawyers office is getting flooded by people who want to pay his legal fees.
This should be a wake up call to health insurance and hospitals that the people are fed up with the prices and lack of payments.
Why does a cat scan in japan cost $45USD, but in america its $8k on the low end? Xray in taiwan cost $60 and in america $300?
Why do meds cost so much?
could be because in Japan and Taiwan, the taxpayer is picking up the balance? instead of the health insurance companies (who are still thieves)?
when the co-pay is low for everybody, you really have socialized (socialist?) health care, govt provided. like Canada. and then everybody gets the same level of service, but also, everybody gets it, the same.
I'm not for socialized healthcare, because then my taxes go up. but i do agree that the health insurance scams could be reigned in a bit, maybe just a skosh?
I have a relative, used to live in japan until a short while ago, said yes, health care costs in Japan costs less, is available to all, but the waitlist is excessively long for the more involved (expensive) stuff, and the quality is not as good as is available in the US (depending on where you live). Was glad to move back "state-side" to get better quality health care (major metro area), and yes, employers health plan provides good coverage.
so be careful what you wish for. Hawaii probably has some of the best health care for us aging folks. Everybody gets there sooner or later (gets old), unless you die first, then you don't get your money's worth.
-
I had some stitches pulled in NZ but because the accident happened in the USA (thanks to the guy who ditched his board in front of me at Sunset) they wouldn't do it for free.
Doc was super apologetic for charging me but it only came out to like $30.
A friend in Thailand said there are healthcare shopping malls where you can see a doc and take an elevator to the MRI then bring the result back and get it examined immediately.
Our system is a racket run by gangsters.
-
eliminate insurance. Pay as you go like a car repair shop. Make people more responsible for their own care. Stop being crash test dummies.
I was in the Queens ER once and there was a woman there because she didn't take her meds for her condition and her diet was horrible. She was rather large. She demanded a lot from the nurses and staff. Wipe toilet seat several times before she sat on it etc. and she bragged to her family how she demanded things from the ER staff.
Insurance is FUBAR because govt touched it. Govt aren't healthcare SMEs. They aren't trasnportation SMEs either (i.e. our stupid rail)
You think this congress critter is getting the same level of care as the rest of us?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nancy-pelosi-announces-major-surgery-after-fall-germany
What would happen if you fell overseas and required med care?
-
A good doctor should make around the same amount as a good plumber.
-
pelosi is getting health care at our tax dollar expense.
Which means a suite, Wynn quality bed and sheets, private chef, and a side table with her favorite spirits, hors d ovaries, and crack. Hunter will drop by to provide the latter.
What would happen if you fell overseas and required med care?
Probably get dumped in an alley somewhere when nobody's looking.......
Oh wait. I heard in some places in the US we do the exact same thing if you have no insurance....(or not enough) :rofl:
-
What would happen if you fell overseas and required med care?
Not as simple as one might assume.
If you're a US citizen on government business in a country with US military facilities like a base with a hospital, you have the option to get treatment there.
If you're a tourist and have no US Diplomatic or other government position, you can contact the consulate/embassy if there is one and possibly be allowed to use local US medical facilities.
if none of that applies, then you use the local medical services, pay out of pocket (usually needed up-front), and file a claim with your insurer.
i've seen stories of US tourists in Mexico waiting in an ER until a friend or family member wires the funds to the hospital before they were treated.
The level of care provided will normally be the minimal needed to safely travel back home where your regular healthcare services will follow up.
On one of my trips to Japan as a civilian contractor, I was on military orders and staying in a government-reimbursed hotel. I went to the Yokosuka Naval Base hospital one night to get checked out. I gave them my insurance info with Kaiser HMO, but i never heard anything from Kaiser nor the Navy seeking any money. i assumed Kaiser covered it as an out of network ER visit. It's possible the Navy covered it since I was on government orders.
Most countries in which the US has a permanent presence have a SOFA -- Status of Forces Agreement. It outlines the services and courtesies the two countries can expect the other side to provide to each other's citizens associated with their official duties. That includes law enforcement, legal and medical situations.
There are no permanent US facilities in Luxembourg other than an embassy.
-
Depending on what country you can pay out of pocket for elective surgeries, get a luxurious vacation, and still pay only a fraction of what you would in the US.
-
just a coincidence?
https://youtu.be/UqnNrRBefhY?t=450
-
Taiwan Healthcare example: Don't read too much into this as this is based on XP and asking questions. I haven't read the "law".
My grandmother in law had to get her annual. It's like the DMV. You show up and wait in line. If you're not seen by X time, you need to come back tomorrow. So she was at the hospital from 4am or so waiting. She was seen at 2pm. She also had a small paper bag of RX's. Everything was free.
A youtuber we watch was in Taiwan with her parents. Her father is a foot doctor in the US. He had a shoulder problem for years. He went to their hospital and saw a doc, then immediately went upstairs to do an xray. THen back down and the doc told him what's up. Cost was about $80 total or so for Xray and doc visit. As a foreigner, he had to pay out of pocket. He said that the cost in the US would have easily been $800 and a longer wait for someone with no insurance. He was amazed at the speed and quality and cost of care. The YTer's are husband and wife and are haloe and both speak mandarin. Hailey Jane is her channel. She has a Taiwan focus channel. SHe and her husband live in the US but love Taiwan. Even her brother and sister have taken Mandarin and they're in middle to high school.
-
Being CAPT Obvious, I've long detested the "healthcare industry", which only serves to make the execs in that industry rich. Not the doctors and the patients suffer. I mean I get protocols to ensure money is being spent wisely, but removing discretion from doctors because of protocol or policies is stupid. I have damaged nerves in my back because I had to wait a few days to even see a specialist, then more days for MRI to be cleared, then weeks for PT, then more weeks for surgery to get cleared.
I have close friends that used to be part of that industry, including HMSA and other national level companies of whatever they call them. 93/7. . . such a crock
And no, I have no ill will for the HMSA CEO. . .
-
This is the question, how do we have better health insurance and prices without having the long waits that "free healthcare" countries have.
Then another thing we need to do is keep our people healthy. We have the most gyms and options, yet the USA is the fattest. This should be a separate thread, but I just wanted people to think about this.
-
The best thing we can do right now since the health care industry is so full of shiite is to try to be as healthy as we can be.
I mean it sucks if you already have crossed that threshold of chronic illness and disease, but if you're not there yet it's best to take measures so you don't get there.
And even if you have crossed that threshold, you still can improve your health by making smart choices.
-
The best thing we can do right now since the health care industry is so full of shiite is to try to be as healthy as we can be.
I mean it sucks if you already have crossed that threshold of chronic illness and disease, but if you're not there yet it's best to take measures so you don't get there.
And even if you have crossed that threshold, you still can improve your health by making smart choices.
The US has largely become a nation of "well intentioned" people, with little follow through, or lower percentage of people who follow through.
Case in point one of my best friend's mom is obese. She talks all the time about getting more exercise, how she needs help getting started or with opportunities, etc. During COVID, I bought a few home exercise machines (bike, row, etc). She asked me to order a similar bike for her via Amazon. Done, shipped to house. Son assembled and is now used to hang laundry. My BJJ academy was regularly putting on self defense classes for women. I bought tickets for one of those events and offered to friends. My friend's mom said she was in, so I gave her a ticket. She would tell us "what? I'm tough you know". A couple of days before the event, I get a text from her other son (also a close friend) that she's out. No explanation, nothing. She wants to be healthier, but does nothing to start. It sounds nice to have those intentions I guess. . .
-
Being CAPT Obvious, I've long detested the "healthcare industry", which only serves to make the execs in that industry rich. Not the doctors and the patients suffer. I mean I get protocols to ensure money is being spent wisely, but removing discretion from doctors because of protocol or policies is stupid. I have damaged nerves in my back because I had to wait a few days to even see a specialist, then more days for MRI to be cleared, then weeks for PT, then more weeks for surgery to get cleared.
I have close friends that used to be part of that industry, including HMSA and other national level companies of whatever they call them. 93/7. . . such a crock
And no, I have no ill will for the HMSA CEO. . .
That's not completely true. All of these big healthcare companies have their ownership traded on the open market. When a company is prosperous, the shareholders also make money.
The fact that CEOs make millions is no different than when a film company hires a big name movie star. The money atracts the talent. if Kaiser can't or won't pay top dollar for the person who knows how to run a profitable business, HMSA or Sentara will. An experienced CEO is not going to come cheap, and it's normally seen as an investment in the organization. Top executives also get paid pretty nice salaries. But the bottom line is the bottom line.
Individuals, mutual funds and corporate retirement funds make money from these types of investments, building wealth for workers to retire, buy a home, send kids to school or just weather hard times. We no longer live in an economy where only the wealthy play the stock market. And the companies who sell stock understand they have a responsibility to the shareholders to earn a profit. They also understand the mass of people they employee would like to continue being employed.
Thinking of a healthcare CEO like he's the only person making bank from keeping prices and claims within affordable ranges is a narrow view of how and why these companies operate like they do.
In my graduate class on Managerial Accounting, we studied an article written about hospital allocation of costs called "The 10 dollar aspirin." It was a method many hospitals used to assign cost to everything they provided to patients. The cost of utilities, disposable water cups, plastic water cups, the pharmacist dispensing the aspirin, the doctor prescribing the drug, the warehouse worker who handled the cases of aspirin, the administrator who ordered the aspirin, the accountant who added the aspirin to your bill, the nurse who brought you the aspirin and even the janitor who had to take your disposable water cup or packaging the aspirin came in to the dumpster all had to be allocated to your account somehow. Those things don't happen for free, and there's no "miscellaneous" or "overhead" category the insurance will cover. So that aspirin you took gets a small portion of all the costs associated with it tacked onto your bill as part of that medication's net cost.
If they didn't operate like this, they'd be losing money. as they would be unable to bill for more than actual cost of supplies and services. When you take a car to a repair shop, they itemize the parts and service as well as add fees for shop towels, hazardous waste disposal, and other services that are necessary but not specific to the work performed. Hospitals aren't allowed to do that as one patient might cost much more in certain "side services" versus other patients. And since patients don't all use the same insurance company or use public assistance (Medicaid, Medicare), the costs would not be born fairly between payers.
Anyway, that's a "tip of the iceberg" view as to why profits are necessary for these companies. That doesn't even touch on services like helicopter ambulances, top-rated surgeons, or preventative care for patients that represent an on-going expense. Without a great CEO at the helm, nobody would be happy with their healthcare costs or outcomes.
-
The best thing we can do right now since the health care industry is so full of shiite is to try to be as healthy as we can be.
I mean it sucks if you already have crossed that threshold of chronic illness and disease, but if you're not there yet it's best to take measures so you don't get there.
And even if you have crossed that threshold, you still can improve your health by making smart choices.
^^^This. But some things don't help. WHich is why I'm excited if RFK is able to get rid of artificial coloring. Other countries ban them totally.
This is why I don't trust real doc comrade green. During covid, he never stressed losing weight. I've talked to many RN's and even respitory nurses and most the young people in the hospital cause covid jacked them up were fat. Instead, comrade stressed to get the vaxx. Most of my under 40 friends who got covid and got jacked up by it,were all fat.
-
That's not completely true. All of these big healthcare companies have their ownership traded on the open market. When a company is prosperous, the shareholders also make money.
The fact that CEOs make millions is no different than when a film company hires a big name movie star. The money atracts the talent. if Kaiser can't or won't pay top dollar for the person who knows how to run a profitable business, HMSA or Sentara will. An experienced CEO is not going to come cheap, and it's normally seen as an investment in the organization. Top executives also get paid pretty nice salaries. But the bottom line is the bottom line.
Individuals, mutual funds and corporate retirement funds make money from these types of investments, building wealth for workers to retire, buy a home, send kids to school or just weather hard times. We no longer live in an economy where only the wealthy play the stock market. And the companies who sell stock understand they have a responsibility to the shareholders to earn a profit. They also understand the mass of people they employee would like to continue being employed.
Thinking of a healthcare CEO like he's the only person making bank from keeping prices and claims within affordable ranges is a narrow view of how and why these companies operate like they do.
In my graduate class on Managerial Accounting, we studied an article written about hospital allocation of costs called "The 10 dollar aspirin." It was a method many hospitals used to assign cost to everything they provided to patients. The cost of utilities, disposable water cups, plastic water cups, the pharmacist dispensing the aspirin, the doctor prescribing the drug, the warehouse worker who handled the cases of aspirin, the administrator who ordered the aspirin, the accountant who added the aspirin to your bill, the nurse who brought you the aspirin and even the janitor who had to take your disposable water cup or packaging the aspirin came in to the dumpster all had to be allocated to your account somehow. Those things don't happen for free, and there's no "miscellaneous" or "overhead" category the insurance will cover. So that aspirin you took gets a small portion of all the costs associated with it tacked onto your bill as part of that medication's net cost.
If they didn't operate like this, they'd be losing money. as they would be unable to bill for more than actual cost of supplies and services. When you take a car to a repair shop, they itemize the parts and service as well as add fees for shop towels, hazardous waste disposal, and other services that are necessary but not specific to the work performed. Hospitals aren't allowed to do that as one patient might cost much more in certain "side services" versus other patients. And since patients don't all use the same insurance company or use public assistance (Medicaid, Medicare), the costs would not be born fairly between payers.
Anyway, that's a "tip of the iceberg" view as to why profits are necessary for these companies. That doesn't even touch on services like helicopter ambulances, top-rated surgeons, or preventative care for patients that represent an on-going expense. Without a great CEO at the helm, nobody would be happy with their healthcare costs or outcomes.
Add in R&D cost for pharm companies. Which is part of the reason why 1 pill cost a lot. How many other pills didn't make it to the market and how much did it cost them? But in the end, both are making more than enough profit that if they really wanted to help more people, then they could. But now I'm sounding like a socialist. Which is why I asked how do we get the best of both worlds.
Personal XP: I had a sharp pain in my throat and my PCP sent me to get an ultrasound. Guess what, my carrier denied it as it wasn't necessary. I had to pay $700 out of pocket. Luckily, I could afford this. But I can imagine that there are others who live paycheck to paycheck. The ultrasound came back negative as no mass was detected. So my PCP ruled out cancer or an ulcer type. Then she sent me to a throat specialist. By the time I got to him, which was about 3 weeks later, the pain was gone. He said it's from dehydration. Which makes sense because I explained that it happened once before and this was the 2nd time, which is why I went to a doctor. And each time was after coming back from Vegas when I don't drink my normal 1 gal of water due to not carrying a jug with me. All trips since I've made it a point to order lots of bottle water when the waitress comes by and it hasn't returned.
So now my liver and kidney ALT/AST levels are elevated after coming off a cold. My PCP said it's common, but wanted to do a ultrasound because I've had elevated AST/ALT levels in the past that were corrected with OTC liver support supplement. She wants to see if my liver is fatty. My piss is light yellow and not frothy. I have no lower back pain. I told her that I'm going to hold off until I get another symptom of a fatty liver like dark urine, frothy urine, lower back pain, yellowing of eyes and skin, etc...because I don't want to pay another $700 out of pocket. I haven't had the time to call my medical carrier to see if this would be covered.
-
That's not completely true. All of these big healthcare companies have their ownership traded on the open market. When a company is prosperous, the shareholders also make money.
The fact that CEOs make millions is no different than when a film company hires a big name movie star. The money atracts the talent. if Kaiser can't or won't pay top dollar for the person who knows how to run a profitable business, HMSA or Sentara will. An experienced CEO is not going to come cheap, and it's normally seen as an investment in the organization. Top executives also get paid pretty nice salaries. But the bottom line is the bottom line.
Individuals, mutual funds and corporate retirement funds make money from these types of investments, building wealth for workers to retire, buy a home, send kids to school or just weather hard times. We no longer live in an economy where only the wealthy play the stock market. And the companies who sell stock understand they have a responsibility to the shareholders to earn a profit. They also understand the mass of people they employee would like to continue being employed.
Thinking of a healthcare CEO like he's the only person making bank from keeping prices and claims within affordable ranges is a narrow view of how and why these companies operate like they do.
In my graduate class on Managerial Accounting, we studied an article written about hospital allocation of costs called "The 10 dollar aspirin." It was a method many hospitals used to assign cost to everything they provided to patients. The cost of utilities, disposable water cups, plastic water cups, the pharmacist dispensing the aspirin, the doctor prescribing the drug, the warehouse worker who handled the cases of aspirin, the administrator who ordered the aspirin, the accountant who added the aspirin to your bill, the nurse who brought you the aspirin and even the janitor who had to take your disposable water cup or packaging the aspirin came in to the dumpster all had to be allocated to your account somehow. Those things don't happen for free, and there's no "miscellaneous" or "overhead" category the insurance will cover. So that aspirin you took gets a small portion of all the costs associated with it tacked onto your bill as part of that medication's net cost.
If they didn't operate like this, they'd be losing money. as they would be unable to bill for more than actual cost of supplies and services. When you take a car to a repair shop, they itemize the parts and service as well as add fees for shop towels, hazardous waste disposal, and other services that are necessary but not specific to the work performed. Hospitals aren't allowed to do that as one patient might cost much more in certain "side services" versus other patients. And since patients don't all use the same insurance company or use public assistance (Medicaid, Medicare), the costs would not be born fairly between payers.
Anyway, that's a "tip of the iceberg" view as to why profits are necessary for these companies. That doesn't even touch on services like helicopter ambulances, top-rated surgeons, or preventative care for patients that represent an on-going expense. Without a great CEO at the helm, nobody would be happy with their healthcare costs or outcomes.
I didn't say anything about just the CEO. I get companies, individuals, etc are (or can be) driven by money. Not saying that healthcare companies can't make money/profits. However, when do things cross the line between primarily for improving healthcare for the patients (who pay the premiums), or even the doctors, vice primarily (not only, or maybe mostly) benefitting the execs? I used to be very close to a group of doctors and they'd have very long conversations about this occurring. Both locally and nationally, with many comparisons to healthcare service (not industry) in other countries. Did I do my own independent research on Google? Not much. . .
I am
-
I didn't say anything about just the CEO. I get companies, individuals, etc are (or can be) driven by money. Not saying that healthcare companies can't make money/profits. However, when do things cross the line between primarily for improving healthcare for the patients (who pay the premiums), or even the doctors, vice primarily (not only, or maybe mostly) benefitting the execs? I used to be very close to a group of doctors and they'd have very long conversations about this occurring. Both locally and nationally, with many comparisons to healthcare service (not industry) in other countries. Did I do my own independent research on Google? Not much. . .
I am
Did I take your statement, "which only serves to make the execs in that industry rich," too literally?
It's not just money that drives people, but what money provides -- unless they are just misers. Money provides a lifestyle, generational wealth, stability, security, opportunities and so on. Money is a placeholder -- a way to assign value to labor, talent and output.
I'm sure there needs to be a degree of philanthropy by wanting to heal and ease suffering, and lots of doctors donate time to clinics and projects without compensation. But getting where they are required at least some sacrifice -- some more than others.
One of the scary parts of universal healthcare is there's no incentive for doctors to make those sacrifices. They are forced to treat patients at whatever rate the government decides. That's moving into socialism, where the doctors are treated as public property forced to provide services to patients whether they want to or not. The next logical problem will be solved by spending whatever money gov't saved on healthcare to lure people in to becoming doctors.
-
SNIP
1) I'm sure there needs to be a degree of philanthropy by wanting to heal and ease suffering, and lots of doctors donate time to clinics and projects without compensation. But getting where they are required at least some sacrifice -- some more than others.
2) One of the scary parts of universal healthcare is there's no incentive for doctors to make those sacrifices. They are forced to treat patients at whatever rate the government decides. That's moving into socialism, where the doctors are treated as public property forced to provide services to patients whether they want to or not. The next logical problem will be solved by spending whatever money gov't saved on healthcare to lure people in to becoming doctors.
1) I personally wouldn't expect philanthropy from anyone, but definitely would be helpful. Same/similar for many professions where the purpose/intent is care, development, etc of others. Like teachers. My mom used to spend a bunch of own money for her classes. Her personal values, which I know and hope more doctors do the same.
2) And that's more to what I was getting at. Where (IMO) the industry got twisted by people away from healthcare to wealth (generational, personal, etc), influence, power, whatever. Where it's the patients, who need the care and in many cases already paid into the system for that care in the form of insurance. And doctors who in many cases have to settle for what insurance companies dictate. I don't know all the details about what goes in/out, but based on principle. Maybe I'm the naive one here, but just stinks when I've been personally affected.
For my back surgery, my spine dr flat out said prior to a recent change in coverage, rules, etc (maybe 6-12 months before seeing me), that he could have had me in surgery 1-2 days after the complete eval, which was within a week of injury. Where time was/is key factor. Then to find out that this is pretty common occurrence recently.
Anyways, yeah, I'm salty at medical insurance industry. . . still wouldn't harm anyone. Well, other than some "harsh language" over drinks with one close friend who is still in the industry. . . then come to find out many in the group had similar experiences or felt the same. . . . :rofl:
-
The US has largely become a nation of "well intentioned" people, with little follow through, or lower percentage of people who follow through.
Case in point one of my best friend's mom is obese. She talks all the time about getting more exercise, how she needs help getting started or with opportunities, etc. During COVID, I bought a few home exercise machines (bike, row, etc). She asked me to order a similar bike for her via Amazon. Done, shipped to house. Son assembled and is now used to hang laundry. My BJJ academy was regularly putting on self defense classes for women. I bought tickets for one of those events and offered to friends. My friend's mom said she was in, so I gave her a ticket. She would tell us "what? I'm tough you know". A couple of days before the event, I get a text from her other son (also a close friend) that she's out. No explanation, nothing. She wants to be healthier, but does nothing to start. It sounds nice to have those intentions I guess. . .
Yes, the committment to better health has to come from the individual. I want my wife to be healthier and to outlive me.
Out of concern for her health I bought her an elliptical machine.
Guess who is using it now and guess who doesn't even give it a glance, LOL!!
Ever since I retired, I made the commitment to get healthier. Since I have more time than money nowadays, I am pretty successful so far.
Now I just have to keep at it and gently coax my wife to join me so we both can live to 150 years old.
-
Yes, the committment to better health has to come from the individual. I want my wife to be healthier and to outlive me.
Out of concern for her health I bought her an elliptical machine.
Guess who is using it now and guess who doesn't even give it a glance, LOL!!
Ever since I retired, I made the commitment to get healthier. Since I have more time than money nowadays, I am pretty successful so far.
Now I just have to keep at it and gently coax my wife to join me so we both can live to 150 years old.
The best results I got so far were from cutting out seed oils.
BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard own most of the healthcare industry AND food supply.
In other words they sell both the disease AND the cure.
Learn to read labels.
-
Yes, the committment to better health has to come from the individual. I want my wife to be healthier and to outlive me.
Out of concern for her health I bought her an elliptical machine.
Guess who is using it now and guess who doesn't even give it a glance, LOL!!
Ever since I retired, I made the commitment to get healthier. Since I have more time than money nowadays, I am pretty successful so far.
Now I just have to keep at it and gently coax my wife to join me so we both can live to 150 years old.
Yeah, I think consistency is key. Can't force someone to be more active, they have to want it or something happens to force them. My dad was largely 'stay at home and cruise' mode later in his life and that certainly had an impact on his physical health, and deterioration in the later years. That said, I am positive he enjoy most of that time in his own way. I am guessing retired life does have many advantages. ;D
-
Been seeing even more support of what he did on social media. Recent post was comparing him to the film John Q. But in that movie, (spoiler alert)............................
Denzel never killed anyone for his sons surgery. He instead was going to kill himself to give his heart to his son.
-
Been seeing even more support of what he did on social media. Recent post was comparing him to the film John Q. But in that movie, (spoiler alert)............................
Denzel never killed anyone for his sons surgery. He instead was going to kill himself to give his heart to his son.
Part of me hopes it's a psyop to stir up trouble before the inauguration, because if it's genuine sentiment then we are in for a world of trouble.
-
Been seeing even more support of what he did on social media. Recent post was comparing him to the film John Q. But in that movie, (spoiler alert)............................
Denzel never killed anyone for his sons surgery. He instead was going to kill himself to give his heart to his son.
Actually, the underlying situation is more complicated.
... the couple are behind on their house and car payments and have only $1,000
in savings, and the hospital requires a $75,000 down payment simply to
place Michael on the organ transplant list. To make matters worse, John's
health insurance will not cover the surgery due to them changing his policy
as a result of them switching insurance carriers and reducing his working hours.
The couple attempts to raise the money, but they exhaust all avenues and still
come up short. Upon learning the hospital intends to send Michael home to die,
in desperation, John takes Dr. Turner and several patients and staff hostage at
gunpoint in the ER, demanding that Payne put Michael's name on the transplant list.
Police negotiator Lt. Frank Grimes makes contact with John.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Q.
One thing that catches a lot of people off guard is when you switch jobs or have other changes in your life that cause you to switch insurance policies. Changes are usually delayed until the first of the following month. So, there could be a gap between one policy being canceled and the replacement policy being active.
Yeah, he wasn't there to kill anyone but himself, but he was holding people hostage to force the hospital to take his heart and give it to his son. Unless he's not serious about getting what he wants, he's at a minimum threatening violence against the hostages -- patients, hospital staff, etc. If he's backed into a corner, he may take a life if it means saving his son's.
-
worth a watch before it gets taken down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dxftQC09H4
-
One thing that catches a lot of people off guard is when you switch jobs or have other changes in your life that cause you to switch insurance policies. Changes are usually delayed until the first of the following month. So, there could be a gap between one policy being canceled and the replacement policy being active.
Talking to guys who are about to retire and they explained that there is a roughly 2 week period between their work insurance ending and their retirement insurance starting even though its all through the same employer so they have to be careful not to get sick or hurt during those two weeks.
Gosh our system is broken.
-
A good doctor should make around the same amount as a good plumber.
I would argue they should get at least a little more considering there is usually more liability and there is a higher level of education required, however a good plumber can make a handsome income.
Your comment touches on another topic I was pondering recently. I always push back on the idea of regulated minimum wages due to the problems it creates but I have been thinking whether a maximum wage would make sense. Not a specific dollar amount but perhaps a percentage tied to the income of the least paid employee. So if the janitor makes $15 an hour the CEO could only make say 20x, or $300 an hour.
-
I would argue they should get at least a little more considering there is usually more liability and there is a higher level of education required, however a good plumber can make a handsome income.
Your comment touches on another topic I was pondering recently. I always push back on the idea of regulated minimum wages due to the problems it creates but I have been thinking whether a maximum wage would make sense. Not a specific dollar amount but perhaps a percentage tied to the income of the least paid employee. So if the janitor makes $15 an hour the CEO could only make say 20x, or $300 an hour.
Flapp mentioned something about then doctors won't work extra, when I brought up England and how there's a cap on their income. Then apply this to non medical field like Jeff Bezos. Would he increase the lowest paid workers hourly or would he stop trying to grow Amazon to what it is today, if this were applied from day 1?
-
capping salaries, what could go wrong with that?!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Supply_and_demand_curves.svg/1024px-Supply_and_demand_curves.svg.png)
-
Massive salaries, insider trading, and death lists are just a side effect of monopolization.
There's no reason someone has to see a certified medical doctor and pay thousands of dollars a month in insurance just so that they can get a few staples on a reef cut every once in a while.
We could solve most of our problems with dietary changes, but the food companies are owned by the same investment firms that own the medical companies, creating a perverse incentive.
The whole system is designed to keep people sick in order to maximize profit.
Healthcare is a mafia racket.
-
Massive salaries, insider trading, and death lists are just a side effect of monopolization.
There's no reason someone has to see a certified medical doctor and pay thousands of dollars a month in insurance just so that they can get a few staples on a reef cut every once in a while.
We could solve most of our problems with dietary changes, but the food companies are owned by the same investment firms that own the medical companies, creating a perverse incentive.
The whole system is designed to keep people sick in order to maximize profit.
Healthcare is a mafia racket.
lots of other factors.
Drs need liability insurance. They also need a lot of education before becoming a Dr. Med school isn't cheap.
On the other hand, just like personal security we are responsible for our health. The problem is many of us don't take responsibility or take action. Or in recent times, we have accepted being unhealthy and normalize it. No one is responsible for YOUR actions and consequences. Simple equation that the general population don't always realize.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/san-francisco-health-department-hires-fat-positivity-expert-consult-weight-stigma-neutrality
-
lots of other factors.
Drs need liability insurance. They also need a lot of education before becoming a Dr. Med school isn't cheap.
An advanced medical degree is not required to learn how to put in some stitches, deliver a baby, or give basic dietary advice.
They have their place, but most everyday issues could be sovled by a competent nurse with a community college level of education.
-
Talking to guys who are about to retire and they explained that there is a roughly 2 week period between their work insurance ending and their retirement insurance starting even though its all through the same employer so they have to be careful not to get sick or hurt during those two weeks.
Gosh our system is broken.
There's a workaround for that: COBRA coverage.
When you leave your job and lose your group health coverage, you are usually eligible to enroll in COBRA. The cool thing is you can delay paying any premiums for at least 3 months.
You first have to respond that you intend to enroll. Then you need to pick a plan. Then you get a bill for your plan that isn't due for a month or more. If you find you need to use the insurance, all you have to do is pay the premiums you owed from the time you became eligible through the date you need to file a claim. it works out to about 3 months of free coverage unless you actually use it.
That's not only a safety net to fill that end of employment gap in coverage, but it also maintains you in that plan so you aren't shopping for coverage while uninsured. It's a lot harder to apply for a new plan with someone else if you have a period with no coverage at all.
COBRA generally requires that group health plans sponsored by employers
with 20 or more employees in the prior year offer employees and their families
the opportunity for a temporary extension of health coverage (called continuation
coverage) in certain instances where coverage under the plan would otherwise end.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra
I think you have to enroll within the first 3 months after ending that job, and it's only available for a fixed time period -- I want to say 12 months, but don't quote me.
The premiums are expensive, so if you can work it out so you get replacement coverage within 3 months, you'll be covered without costing you anything as long as you don't have to make use of the COBRA coverage.
-
Don't cap salaries, increase taxes. If you make 1 billion dollars a year you can afford paying 60% tax. Anyone under 500k or 1mil per family should have their taxes lowered. Tax other ways to hide money. People who own 3+ houses, should be taxed higher than one who owns 1. Same with cars, if your car is 200k + you should pay more tax. Don't make all these taxes extreme just more reasonable than the billionaires paying less taxes than a minimum wage worker.
The top 5% shouldnt have more wealth than the bottom 95%. But we shouldnt be communist, there is a balance. You can make all the money you want but you just end up paying more.
Also doctors should make more than most other perfessions. They go to alot of school and specialties.
-
Don't cap salaries, increase taxes. If you make 1 billion dollars a year you can afford paying 60% tax. Anyone under 500k or 1mil per family should have their taxes lowered. Tax other ways to hide money. People who own 3+ houses, should be taxed higher than one who owns 1. Same with cars, if your car is 200k + you should pay more tax. Don't make all these taxes extreme just more reasonable than the billionaires paying less taxes than a minimum wage worker.
The top 5% shouldnt have more wealth than the bottom 95%. But we shouldnt be communist, there is a balance. You can make all the money you want but you just end up paying more.
Also doctors should make more than most other perfessions. They go to alot of school and specialties.
The problem is with inflation we will all be millionaires soon, so that strategy would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I wonder why it is being so heavily promoted on the left. Hmmm...
As far as specialist doctors making more money I'm all for that, but if we were a healthier nation who could take care of ourselves without medical tyranny dictating our personal choices then we wouldn't need so many specialists.
-
The problem is with inflation we will all be millionaires soon, so that strategy would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
I wonder why it is being so heavily promoted on the left. Hmmm...
As far as specialist doctors making more money I'm all for that, but if we were a healthier nation who could take care of ourselves without medical tyranny dictating our personal choices then we wouldn't need so many specialists.
#1 problem: Any billionaire who gets taxed that much will find ways to avoid them (parking revenue overseas) and pass the cost onto consumers by raising prices.
#2 problem: increasing taxes rewards pork barrel Congress critters for doing a piss poor job. If you want more piss poor performance, keep increasing the amount of money you give them to budget.
-
Don't cap salaries, increase taxes. If you make 1 billion dollars a year you can afford paying 60% tax. Anyone under 500k or 1mil per family should have their taxes lowered. Tax other ways to hide money. People who own 3+ houses, should be taxed higher than one who owns 1. Same with cars, if your car is 200k + you should pay more tax. Don't make all these taxes extreme just more reasonable than the billionaires paying less taxes than a minimum wage worker.
The top 5% shouldnt have more wealth than the bottom 95%. But we shouldnt be communist, there is a balance. You can make all the money you want but you just end up paying more.
Also doctors should make more than most other perfessions. They go to alot of school and specialties.
Of course your answer is to increase taxes on the rich. Wait, so you're saying a billionaire pays less taxes than someone who works min wage? Can you post evidence of this?
-
Of course your answer is to increase taxes on the rich. Wait, so you're saying a billionaire pays less taxes than someone who works min wage? Can you post evidence of this?
i keep hearing how the rich are not paying their "fair share" of taxes.
interesting, since the top 5% of earners in the U.S. pay the majority of federal
income taxes, contributing about 66% of the total.
In fact, the top 50% of earners account for nearly 98% of federal income tax revenue.
This means that the bottom half of wage earners pay only 2% of the federal income
taxes collected.
Seems like the tax system really unfair -- to the top 50%!!
Fair would be for everyone to pay the same percentage. The higher income earners would pay more than the lower earners but at the same rate.
Anyone earning below a certain threshold would be exempt from paying taxes
Careful what you wish for. Most people think fair is whatever you can take from someone who earned it. People see someone who isn't poor winning the lottery and complain that isn't fair. Those people think they need the money more than the winners, and the fair thing to do is to share the windfall with them -- i.e. tax the heck out of them and send them a tax credit "refund."
Have you ever gotten a job from someone who isn't considered rich? Most people in the top 50% invest in and/or own businesses which hire employees. They create more wealth by using what they already have or can borrow to build businesses that hire people. Taxing these top earners more and more means fewer jobs -- jobs that were being done overseas in many cases until Trump reduced the taxes these owners would owe if they brought that cash from banks overseas into the US for investing.
-
i keep hearing how the rich are not paying their "fair share" of taxes.
interesting, since the top 5% of earners in the U.S. pay the majority of federal
income taxes, contributing about 66% of the total.
In fact, the top 50% of earners account for nearly 98% of federal income tax revenue.
This means that the bottom half of wage earners pay only 2% of the federal income
taxes collected.
Wow, I didn't know this. Well, I never looked into it tbh as "taxing the rich" to me isn't the answer.
-
Wow, I didn't know this. Well, I never looked into it tbh as "taxing the rich" to me isn't the answer.
You're like many who say they didn't know this. I find it concerning since there was such a stink about it when Romney was running against Obama.
Someone covertly recorded Romney speaking at a GOP gathering -- fund raiser or something. He made the comment that it's almost impossible to convince enough voters to elect someone promising income tax cuts when nearly half of them pay little to no tax themselves.
It was spun by the media as if Romney doesn't care about the low income voters.
After I verified the facts, the percentage haven't changed by more than a percentage point year to year. When he made that comment, I found that 46% of income earners pay zero into the federal income tax kitty. it's the other 4% that paid the 2% of total taxes collected versus the 98% paid by the top half of earners.
What Romney said was true, but you don't hear anyone in the media or on the left talking about this. It goes against their "fair share" BS talking point.
-
#1 problem: Any billionaire who gets taxed that much will find ways to avoid them (parking revenue overseas) and pass the cost onto consumers by raising prices.
#2 problem: increasing taxes rewards pork barrel Congress critters for doing a piss poor job. If you want more piss poor performance, keep increasing the amount of money you give them to budget.
Not really, we would be lowering taxes on us so if anything we can have the same amount of tax revenue overall. Or use the money to pay down debt. Make it mandatory.
-
Not really, we would be lowering taxes on us so if anything we can have the same amount of tax revenue overall. Or use the money to pay down debt. Make it mandatory.
Imagine having a hundred million dollars in your account but can't afford to buy a loaf of bread, then the government takes a huge chunk of it because according to their outdated legislation you are "wealthy".
The way they are attacking the debt is inflation, and that's only likely to get worse under the Trump administration.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/yIPQP8MfExCccj8bY1CVhsAkmzXMM5mcZfBZP2URkTw/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS5nZXR0eWltYWdl/cy5jb20vaWQvOTI1/NDI3MDEvcGhvdG8v/bW9uZXktb2Ytemlt/YmFid2UuanBnP3M9/NjEyeDYxMiZ3PTAm/az0yMCZjPTRCSEZ4/b0dyNjJUdEZVWjlf/MkhVblFqMWNLRHc3/YWpQV29tUmNQd3R0/Vm89)
-
Imagine having a hundred million dollars in your account but can't afford to buy a loaf of bread, then the government takes a huge chunk of it because according to their outdated legislation you are "wealthy".
The way they are attacking the debt is inflation, and that's only likely to get worse under the Trump administration.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/yIPQP8MfExCccj8bY1CVhsAkmzXMM5mcZfBZP2URkTw/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS5nZXR0eWltYWdl/cy5jb20vaWQvOTI1/NDI3MDEvcGhvdG8v/bW9uZXktb2Ytemlt/YmFid2UuanBnP3M9/NjEyeDYxMiZ3PTAm/az0yMCZjPTRCSEZ4/b0dyNjJUdEZVWjlf/MkhVblFqMWNLRHc3/YWpQV29tUmNQd3R0/Vm89)
I remember Jimmy Kimmel crying on TV that thanks to Barry Care, his son was able to get the surgery he needed. I mean, it's not like he's a millionare or can fundraise easier than us regular folk.
-
Not really, we would be lowering taxes on us so if anything we can have the same amount of tax revenue overall. Or use the money to pay down debt. Make it mandatory.
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
There have been balanced budget resolutions in the past. The problem is we must often spend more on mandatory expenses and interest on the debt than the IRS gets in revenue. Unless we get those items under control (within budget), all the cuts in discretionary spending won't fix anything.
The United States federal budget is divided into three categories: mandatory
spending, discretionary spending, and interest on debt. Also known as
entitlement spending, in US fiscal policy, mandatory spending is government
spending on certain programs that are required by law.[1] Congress established
mandatory programs under authorization laws. Congress legislates spending
for mandatory programs outside of the annual appropriations bill process.
Congress can only reduce the funding for programs by changing the authorization
law itself. This normally requires a 60-vote majority in the Senate to pass.
Discretionary spending on the other hand will not occur unless Congress acts
each year to provide the funding through an appropriations bill. Expenditure is
often influenced by Federal Reserve advisory.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_spending
Because of the way funding laws are written, there's really no way to balance the budget until one party with a mandate to fix those problems has enough of a majority in Congress to no longer be subject to an evenly divided vote on each change.
These things are outside the control of the WH and the President. The WH submits budget requests, but Congress does the appropriations.
(https://i.imgur.com/BBWasIy.png)
-
I remember Jimmy Kimmel crying on TV that thanks to Barry Care, his son was able to get the surgery he needed. I mean, it's not like he's a millionare or can fundraise easier than us regular folk.
It’s a great example of how inflation is a regressive tax. Doubling the grocery bill is causing us financial pain, but Jimmy can still afford to buy the whole store. If his deductible and payments doubled under Obama care he’s not going to notice the difference, and therefore he’s unlikely to change his political stance until his compensation for spreading propaganda no longer covers his bills. In the meantime it’s not in his financial interest to try and figure out why people are so upset.
-
Flapp mentioned something about then doctors won't work extra, when I brought up England and how there's a cap on their income. Then apply this to non medical field like Jeff Bezos. Would he increase the lowest paid workers hourly or would he stop trying to grow Amazon to what it is today, if this were applied from day 1?
I was thinking more of the CEOs who make millions a year while the bottom employees make minimum wage. A quick google of the highest paid doctors salaries are still well under a million a year. But it is important to think through the proposal to try and anticipate all possible negative outcomes.
Bezos would still have the incentive to grow the company even if his salary didn't grow as long as he owned stock in the company because the stock price would still rise. It also wouldn't be a true cap on income because Bezos could always increase his income as long as he increased the income of his lowest employees.
-
Massive salaries, insider trading, and death lists are just a side effect of monopolization.
There's no reason someone has to see a certified medical doctor and pay thousands of dollars a month in insurance just so that they can get a few staples on a reef cut every once in a while.
We could solve most of our problems with dietary changes, but the food companies are owned by the same investment firms that own the medical companies, creating a perverse incentive.
The whole system is designed to keep people sick in order to maximize profit.
Healthcare is a mafia racket.
Reading a good book on this subject right now. There are so many ways things are inflated, one example they checked dozens of hospitals around the country for the price of a common surgery and it ranged wildly meaning that some hospitals were charging many times more for the procedure than it actually cost. In one case a hospital quoted a $150,000 surgery to a patient but when he said he would get it back home in France for $25,0000 they suddenly offered to do it for $35,000.
https://www.amazon.com/Price-We-Pay-American-Care/dp/1635575915/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3TYBZSQMRBIQS&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ZkiqDaZraR6YHsTFrDsb-F-cC9jtrzD2I9vls2VHGSoltafGmkxqb49LJEfcI621hiYGopcXT0Mj-uEKEzXpmVKJ1KLLU_6ZL_DVIBDCMknA0T9UAATBZuK3Gx2lo2NwTPpu4NDNUpmgmGjv-paVOXgsqhNnrcM6JLDed8bLB2utWv3g32-kpAiaq7bkthngvf11GAANvB2pMmI5dFnv4oXizNB2YF1bJmCpmTFlbek._eENDFwTpOmtRCmFFtmKQXGt-IF9fjbh1NxGp3T6Sf4&dib_tag=se&keywords=marty+makary&qid=1735297227&sprefix=marty+makar%2Caps%2C349&sr=8-2
-
There's a workaround for that: COBRA coverage.
When you leave your job and lose your group health coverage, you are usually eligible to enroll in COBRA. The cool thing is you can delay paying any premiums for at least 3 months.
You first have to respond that you intend to enroll. Then you need to pick a plan. Then you get a bill for your plan that isn't due for a month or more. If you find you need to use the insurance, all you have to do is pay the premiums you owed from the time you became eligible through the date you need to file a claim. it works out to about 3 months of free coverage unless you actually use it.
That's not only a safety net to fill that end of employment gap in coverage, but it also maintains you in that plan so you aren't shopping for coverage while uninsured. It's a lot harder to apply for a new plan with someone else if you have a period with no coverage at all.https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra
I think you have to enroll within the first 3 months after ending that job, and it's only available for a fixed time period -- I want to say 12 months, but don't quote me.
The premiums are expensive, so if you can work it out so you get replacement coverage within 3 months, you'll be covered without costing you anything as long as you don't have to make use of the COBRA coverage.
Thanks, thats good info. I have a few more years till I can retire but at least I know it is out there.
-
Don't cap salaries, increase taxes. If you make 1 billion dollars a year you can afford paying 60% tax. Anyone under 500k or 1mil per family should have their taxes lowered. Tax other ways to hide money. People who own 3+ houses, should be taxed higher than one who owns 1. Same with cars, if your car is 200k + you should pay more tax. Don't make all these taxes extreme just more reasonable than the billionaires paying less taxes than a minimum wage worker.
The top 5% shouldnt have more wealth than the bottom 95%. But we shouldnt be communist, there is a balance. You can make all the money you want but you just end up paying more.
Also doctors should make more than most other perfessions. They go to alot of school and specialties.
I don't like this idea is because it just punishes wealth and success and does nothing to incentivize better wages. Tying a CEO's wage to the lowest paying wage seeks to make the CEO want to pay the employee better.
-
I was thinking more of the CEOs who make millions a year while the bottom employees make minimum wage. A quick google of the highest paid doctors salaries are still well under a million a year. But it is important to think through the proposal to try and anticipate all possible negative outcomes.
Bezos would still have the incentive to grow the company even if his salary didn't grow as long as he owned stock in the company because the stock price would still rise. It also wouldn't be a true cap on income because Bezos could always increase his income as long as he increased the income of his lowest employees.
Then prices would have to also increase. Wages go up, insurance goes up, cost to customer goes up. So now would Amazon be as afforable as it i is in todays time?
Your googling of salaries have nothing to do with what I mentioned Flapp said. A cap is a cap. So say the highest doctor gets $500K a year (made up #), and they cap it at $200K. This is what I was getting at that Flapp responded to.
-
The problem with health insurance is it's not really health insurance and doesn't work how it's setup and regulated. People want the best health coverage at the lowest premiums or even free.
It's like equating it to car insurance with no caps on coverage and a flat rate premium (or free) for everyone. Like coverage that would cover a $20 million dollar lawsuit, $25,000 in repairs for a car worth $5,000, and covers routine things like safety checks and replacing worn tires or if you want to transition a car into a truck. And coverage that would cover everyone at the same flat rate premiums whether you have a lamborghini or a Kia, 50 speeding tickets, multiple DUI arrests, etc plus allowing people to forgo insurance and only getting it right after an accident to get it covered. People that can't afford the premiums get free coverage subsidized by everyone else. Unnecessary things go through insurance incurring a middleman with additional administrative costs that make it inefficient.
That's basically what health insurance is now and why it doesn't work.
Also the US is subsidizing the rest of the world on medal research and developments which is why healthcare is so expensive here compared to other places.
-
It’s not like tweaking the system is going to help at this point. Become a zillionaire by ripping people off and eventually they will chase you down the street and kill you. Not saying it’s right, that’s just the way these things always play out. We have a whole class of corporate parasites that will never change their ways until the rug gets pulled and the system comes crashing down. Att this point arguing about salary caps and adding new regulations is like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
-
The problem with health insurance is it's not really health insurance and doesn't work how it's setup and regulated. People want the best health coverage at the lowest premiums or even free.
It's like equating it to car insurance with no caps on coverage and a flat rate premium (or free) for everyone. Like coverage that would cover a $20 million dollar lawsuit, $25,000 in repairs for a car worth $5,000, and covers routine things like safety checks and replacing worn tires or if you want to transition a car into a truck. And coverage that would cover everyone at the same flat rate premiums whether you have a lamborghini or a Kia, 50 speeding tickets, multiple DUI arrests, etc plus allowing people to forgo insurance and only getting it right after an accident to get it covered. People that can't afford the premiums get free coverage subsidized by everyone else. Unnecessary things go through insurance incurring a middleman with additional administrative costs that make it inefficient.
That's basically what health insurance is now and why it doesn't work.
Also the US is subsidizing the rest of the world on medal research and developments which is why healthcare is so expensive here compared to other places.
Personally, I don't want best care for lowest premiums. I want good to best care for reasonable premiums. Premiums that I've paid into the system fo decades. I understand it's not like social security, but it's more on principle. Then there's the entilement attitude that while has always been brewing, Obamacare kicked that into high(er) drive (IMO).
People often also relate/compare with healthcare from other countries. While valid, many haven't lived under those systems.
-
Heard some rumors that shooter was a millionaire. I mean, another story said he did have $8K USD on him and some foreign currency at time of arrest. So not like he was paycheck to paycheck.
I wonder if his med bills put him in debt and he just didn't pay them. Did the hospital try to garnish anything?
-
The problem with health insurance is it's not really health insurance and doesn't work how it's setup and regulated. People want the best health coverage at the lowest premiums or even free.
It's like equating it to car insurance with no caps on coverage and a flat rate premium (or free) for everyone. Like coverage that would cover a $20 million dollar lawsuit, $25,000 in repairs for a car worth $5,000, and covers routine things like safety checks and replacing worn tires or if you want to transition a car into a truck. And coverage that would cover everyone at the same flat rate premiums whether you have a lamborghini or a Kia, 50 speeding tickets, multiple DUI arrests, etc plus allowing people to forgo insurance and only getting it right after an accident to get it covered. People that can't afford the premiums get free coverage subsidized by everyone else. Unnecessary things go through insurance incurring a middleman with additional administrative costs that make it inefficient.
That's basically what health insurance is now and why it doesn't work.
Also the US is subsidizing the rest of the world on medal research and developments which is why healthcare is so expensive here compared to other places.
Partly and partly not, the covid vaccine was German. The biggest weightloss meds are European. A bunch of stuff is still created worldwide. We do a bunch though. I think the USA has too much admin staff. They outnumber medical perfessionals. That's what our money is going to.
-
Then prices would have to also increase. Wages go up, insurance goes up, cost to customer goes up. So now would Amazon be as afforable as it i is in todays time?
Your googling of salaries have nothing to do with what I mentioned Flapp said. A cap is a cap. So say the highest doctor gets $500K a year (made up #), and they cap it at $200K. This is what I was getting at that Flapp responded to.
Companies would still have to compete for customers which means they will still find ways to make the product more affordable or better. Under the model I mentioned rather than crapping on the bottom guys to make the price more affordable you would see a cut in the pay at the highest levels. Depending on the business and market some products/services may see a price increase
It sounds like Flapp is talking about something a little different than I am, the model I mentioned really isn't a hard cap, it is just tied to other worker's pay levels.
-
Companies would still have to compete for customers which means they will still find ways to make the product more affordable or better. Under the model I mentioned rather than crapping on the bottom guys to make the price more affordable you would see a cut in the pay at the highest levels. Depending on the business and market some products/services may see a price increase
It sounds like Flapp is talking about something a little different than I am, the model I mentioned really isn't a hard cap, it is just tied to other worker's pay levels.
You act like healthcare is just the same as any other product. It's not.
First, it's a service -- not a product. insurance is a product, and some policies are much better than others.
But, when it comes to services, the best people cost what they cost. You can't sell the services of the best doctors, nurses and technicians in the industry without paying the salaries required to attract and keep them. As an HMO or hospital, you pay more than the next HMO, or you get less than excellent talent.
In other words, the HMO can only control the prices they have to pay for doctors if the competition is unable or unwilling to increase what they offer.
It has nothing to do with "our surgeons cost the patient less than that HMO's surgeons."
Healthcare is a unique service. It's one of the few things people are willing to pay as much as is asked of them, because the alternative is to get no care or lower quality care. when faced with death or debilitating damage to the body, no price is too high -- even if it means financial ruin for the patient and their family. you can always recover from poverty, but it's difficultt to enjoy your nice house and possessions when you're dead or severely ill.