2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on July 04, 2025, 08:38:03 PM
-
After watching a couple YT body cam video channels, I'm convinced the Cops need to be issued tranquilizer guns.
People acting like wild animals need to be neutralized like wild animals. Tasers don't seem to be very effective on people who are high or who just get angrier over being tazed.
Maybe after a nice nap and waking up in a jail cell or padded room, they'll be a little less noncompliant.
After watching a couple seasons of Dexter, it's obvious why he uses animal tranquilizer to incapacitate his targets.
https://youtu.be/r6rql7TyLdo
-
Great idea... but cops shooting drugs into somebody sounds like a lawsuit to me
-
Great idea... but cops shooting drugs into somebody sounds like a lawsuit to me
i think drugs would cause fewer long term injuries than the current methods of forced compliance using physical means.
Knocking someone out with a tranq dart is better than having to break someone's arm and Cops being injured while the subject is "resisting." That's especially true on an aircraft or other situation where lots of people are in close quarters.
The people on these body cam videos should get what they deserve for acting like that. if tranq guns are considered humane for animal control, I think it would be an effective tool for out-of-control humans as well. There are risks with any type of force. It seems like incapacitating people who refuse to comply and are threatening others' safety would have more benefit than risk.
Of course, we have to have rules of engagement, otherwise cops may decide tranqing people is a lot easier than having to listen to their BS. :shake:
-
Great idea... but cops shooting drugs into somebody sounds like a lawsuit to me
Especially here in our "Aloha" State. That would be unthinkable. Josh would not have it.
Although I also think it's a great idea.
We might need a tranq dart on Rick though. He always like beef somebody. ;)
-
Apparently with tickets getting cheaper, ocean cruises have have become another place where bad public behavior has increased.
https://youtu.be/09l-PpAOCwc
-
Apparently with tickets getting cheaper, ocean cruises have have become another place where bad public behavior has increased.
https://youtu.be/09l-PpAOCwc
I've never thought fights on cruises were ever possible. Unfortunately certain demographics always seem to make the impossible possible.
-
Now Carnival Cruise Line is being called racist for their new rules for voyagers.
One specifically pointed out: No bluetooth speakers are allowed outside of cabins.
Apparently, forcing the entire ship to listen to your favorite hiphop tunes is acceptable behavior. But making a rule to stop doing that is somehow only intended to apply to one race?
Sorry. If not appreciating rap/hiphop is racist, then i guess you have to count me in.
Just because you bought a ticket along with all your friends and coworkers doesn't mean you own the ship.
https://youtu.be/D1GyHQiuneU
-
Since this is about security & law enforcement and methods of controlling individual and crowds, I think cruise ships should install high pressure water cannons in large party areas. The devices would have multiple uses.
Fire suppression
Crowd control
Fight intervention
Violent passenger neutralizing
Deck cleanup
Cooling off passengers and the deck
I imagine there are other uses. These just come to mind.
https://youtu.be/vyUjIa9CIU8?t=40
-
i think drugs would cause fewer long term injuries than the current methods of forced compliance using physical means.
Knocking someone out with a tranq dart is better than having to break someone's arm and Cops being injured while the subject is "resisting." That's especially true on an aircraft or other situation where lots of people are in close quarters.
The people on these body cam videos should get what they deserve for acting like that. if tranq guns are considered humane for animal control, I think it would be an effective tool for out-of-control humans as well. There are risks with any type of force. It seems like incapacitating people who refuse to comply and are threatening others' safety would have more benefit than risk.
Of course, we have to have rules of engagement, otherwise cops may decide tranqing people is a lot easier than having to listen to their BS. :shake:
In theory yes, maybe even in overall statistics this would hold true but cases like death of Elijah McCain make this a risky tactic. On top of that commonly used sedatives can take a couple minutes to take the fight out of someone.
Tasers are extremely effective as long as the darts get a good spread and newer taser models increase the ability to get a good spread.
-
In theory yes, maybe even in overall statistics this would hold true but cases like death of Elijah McCain make this a risky tactic. On top of that commonly used sedatives can take a couple minutes to take the fight out of someone.
Tasers are extremely effective as long as the darts get a good spread and newer taser models increase the ability to get a good spread.
It takes 2-5 minutes to tranquilize a tiger or lion.
It takes about 10 minutes to tranquilize a gorilla.
A tranq dart is a valid option when the suspect is not threatening to attack/hurt someone else. You can dart them, then wait for it to take effect.
The situations I posted here are people acting up (breaking things, causing a public disturbance, refusing to deplane, or just refusing to comply with commands).
They aren't rabid dogs that need immediate stopping, nor are they holding a firearm or knife threatening to kill someone else. They are just combative when approached. Shoot them with a dart, and you won't have to approach them until they are unconscious.
Tasers are not without risks, as there are documented cases of the suspect dying after being tased, and there are times when even properly placed probes won't take the suspect down. That's why SOP for using Tasers and other non-/less-than-lethal measures includes having backup with deadly force in case things go South.
-
From what I have seen on recorded video, it often takes 2 or 3 cops to apprehend one uncooperative person. Like was mentioned, Tasers and pepper spray
often times don’t work. But I have also seen one cop and a police dog and suddenly the suspect gets very cooperative. Getting and training more dogs would be
cheaper than hiring more officers.
-
From what I have seen on recorded video, it often takes 2 or 3 cops to apprehend one uncooperative person. Like was mentioned, Tasers and pepper spray
often times don’t work. But I have also seen one cop and a police dog and suddenly the suspect gets very cooperative. Getting and training more dogs would be
cheaper than hiring more officers.
I would disagree. each dog gets a handler. So 1 dog, 1 cop. So u still gotta hire more officers. Unless you have multiple dogs released, but IDK if that is possible and keep their obedience.
I wonder if deadly force would be a deterrent. Cops give X commands and if after that they're not obeyed, then deadly force is authorized. In a perfect world, the police would never give a command to stop doing something w/o violating their rights. And on the opposite end, there are many vids of cops giving a lawful order to drop the machete and it's ignored for minutes and 12+commands to do so (see big island incident).
So since deadly force isn't an option and the risk with sedatives, maybe allowing cops to tase/OC sooner would be in the middle. Someone blocking the road, go ahead and tase after telling them to move and they ignore.
-
There should be a "I'm only going to say this once....." law.
This is how it works:
Cop: Drop the weapon and put your hands up. NOW.
Perp: Ahhhh Fack you cop, kiss my a..........
Cop: BOOM.
;) ;) ;)
-
There should be a "I'm only going to say this once....." law.
This is how it works:
Cop: Drop the weapon and put your hands up. NOW.
Perp: Ahhhh Fack you cop, kiss my a..........
Cop: BOOM.
;) ;) ;)
....
Sounds good, but here in Hawaii, there is also a language barrier. When I go to practice at the range, there seems to be a lot of people who don't speak english.
-
Cops have a lot of options...Pepper spray, Tasers, Batons, less lethal shotgun, take downs, beat downs, etc. Problem with tranquilizers is you have to administer the proper dose. And any drugs or alcohol in the system, and medical issues, can lead to severe complications. Tasers and other stuff can cause complications too, but tranquilizers seems like it would have more problems.
-
Actual live demonstration ....
:rofl: :geekdanc: :popcorn:
https://youtu.be/eKAg4usOZ5k
-
I would disagree. each dog gets a handler. So 1 dog, 1 cop. So u still gotta hire more officers. Unless you have multiple dogs released, but IDK if that is possible and keep their obedience.
You misunderstood what I said, which was it often takes 2 or 3 cops to take an uncooperative person into custody, but 1 cop and one dog and the person becomes very cooperative.
So instead of hiring more cops, have the cops already on duty get a K9 partner instead of a human. You don’t pay dogs a salary, give them vacation time, retirement pension, car allowance etc.
Guys who like make big body tarun tarun to a human officer not going do that to a growling K9 officer unless they looking to get a very painful dog bite.
Take the Nuuanu case where 3 cops couldn’t apprehend that big black guy and he was beating the crap out of them till they used deadly force. That guy would have had his hands full fighting a trained police dog.
-
This woman needed tranquilizing ...
There's a term i keep hearing from the Black podcasters like the Hodge Twins: Ratchet.
Ratchet behavior
Ratchet Black Woman
Ratchet Karen
From context and usage, I think it refers to the people who go from 0 to 100 Mph emotionally and at max volume for absolutely no reason. They make reasonable communication and interaction impossible. They tend to go into repetition mode, usually in the form of a question, threat, or shouting the same irrelevant sentence repeatedly thereby drowning out and interrupting anyone trying to calm them down or speak to them in a civil manner.
I'll look for a more formal definition ...... Found it!
The slang term ratchet first emerged in the hip hop community in Shreveport,
Louisiana, in 1999 with the release of the song "Do the Ratchet" by Anthony
Mandigo.[4][5] The term made its way into the mainstream through popular
2000s hip hop songs such as Lil Boosie's 2004 remix of "Do tha Ratchet."[4]
The term was often used to describe the lifestyles of black, inner city youth.[4]
The term ratchet became a popular term for women who were deemed
hood, ghetto, or loud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_feminism
So, the term appears to be appropriate for this video. O0
https://youtu.be/8M19m0IKdqI
-
You misunderstood what I said, which was it often takes 2 or 3 cops to take an uncooperative person into custody, but 1 cop and one dog and the person becomes very cooperative.
So instead of hiring more cops, have the cops already on duty get a K9 partner instead of a human. You don’t pay dogs a salary, give them vacation time, retirement pension, car allowance etc.
Guys who like make big body tarun tarun to a human officer not going do that to a growling K9 officer unless they looking to get a very painful dog bite.
Take the Nuuanu case where 3 cops couldn’t apprehend that big black guy and he was beating the crap out of them till they used deadly force. That guy would have had his hands full fighting a trained police dog.
I understand, thanks for clarifying.
-
I know a k9 handler.
I'll ask him if it's OK to place a dog with a typical beat cop.
I don't think they can do that.
-
I know a k9 handler.
I'll ask him if it's OK to place a dog with a typical beat cop.
I don't think they can do that.
It takes another form of training besides the regular one a typical beat cop receives. Then add in that most also live with their dogs. So adding more responsibility. Then they also have special vehicles to house the dog.
This is why special K9 units exist and once cannot just take a trained dog with them for a random beat cop.
-
Not sure but I've always thought Handler and K-9 needs to train together and develop bonds and trust.
I never thought you can just thrust a trained K-9 with just any cop. Especially ones that have a tendency to leave their firearms in toilets and rifles unattended during crisis situations. ::)
-
Not sure but I've always thought Handler and K-9 needs to train together and develop bonds and trust.
I never thought you can just thrust a trained K-9 with just any cop. Especially ones that have a tendency to leave their firearms in toilets and rifles unattended during crisis situations. ::)
Lots of working dogs are trained by professional schools. Only those with the temperament and adaptability to be a working dog will be sold as working dogs.
The dogs, once delivered to the "end users," will assign a handler. That handler will usually be partnered with the same dog for the dog's total time working there unless there's an obvious incompatibility or one of the two is no longer part of that agency/department.
Once partnered, the handler will then work with the dog to develop the bond between them and practice the skills needed on the job.
Police dog training that is used by the force usually come from one of two
places, either a private training facility that specializes in this field or the
police force has their own trainers on site. After the dog goes through this
training it is paired with the handler that will be with the dog almost 24/7
from here on. These handlers also need to be trained on how the dog was
trained and how to handle it to be the most effective in the field. This does
not mean you can't train your dog to do these specialized tasks, there are
protection dogs that specialize in basic patrol dog protection and are often
times either home trained or trained by professionals for civilians.
https://sitstay.com/blogs/good-dog-blog/police-dog-training-101
I know many US breeders sell their dogs to companies who supply working dogs to a variety of people and groups. Many breeders/suppliers will have their dogs sent to Germany, the Netherlands, and other well-respected training locations to have the dogs trained. Once completed, the trained dogs will be sold to police departments or whoever, with the dog already trained to do most required basic tasks and skills. It's then up to the "end users" to continue the dog's training and bonding with an assigned handler, as well as making sure the handler is trained.
-
Apparently the US is not the only place that breeds ratchet behavior.
https://youtu.be/uDojjOa3iEk
-
Cuban Ratchet in action at the airport!
She ordered $84+ of whatever at the Cuban Sandwich Co., but the manager said she didn't pay. She signed the receipt with an $8 tip, but never left the cash.
The manager even re-printed the check without the tip. She just wanted her to pay what she owed.
After a million lies that she paid, the cop whipped out the handcuffs. Full stop -- 180 degrees -- "I got the money! I'll pay!! I'll pay! Let me go! I'll pay whatever! I just want to go home!!!"
S#!^ gets real when the cuffs come out! :rofl: I don't think her mouth stopped the entire video.
https://youtu.be/HqF1xx9q4Zs
-
A friend of mine was in the AIr Force and worked with their top K9. It was a Belgian something that looked like a German Shepard. He wasn't the handler, but the guy who cleans the poop. His MOS was military police. He got to feel first hand what it feels like to be bit by that dog while wearing the dog suit. He was amazed at the strength from a non puncturing bite.
-
A friend of mine was in the AIr Force and worked with their top K9. It was a Belgian something that looked like a German Shepard. He wasn't the handler, but the guy who cleans the poop. His MOS was military police. He got to feel first hand what it feels like to be bit by that dog while wearing the dog suit. He was amazed at the strength from a non puncturing bite.
There are at least 4 Belgian Shepherd breeds that are used as working dogs: Malinois, Tervuren, Laekenois, and Groenendael.
The bite force of a German Shepherd Dog (GSD) is approximately 238 pounds per square inch (PSI), making it one of the strongest among dog breeds. The bite force of the Belgian Malinois is 195 PSI. The American Pit Bull is in between at 235 PSI which is just below a GSD by 3 PSI.
On a side note to this side subject, German Shepherd Dogs have an exceptional sense of smell, with about 220 million scent receptors, making them capable of detecting scents 10,000 to 100,000 times better than humans.
-
One of the reasons police stopped using Rottweilers is because of their 328 lbs bite force. That is enough to crush and break human bones.
In addition, Shepherds and Malinois’ are easier to train and have a longer attention span. I had a GSD before, but I like Rotties more.
-
Cops have a lot of options...Pepper spray, Tasers, Batons, less lethal shotgun, take downs, beat downs, etc. Problem with tranquilizers is you have to administer the proper dose. And any drugs or alcohol in the system, and medical issues, can lead to severe complications. Tasers and other stuff can cause complications too, but tranquilizers seems like it would have more problems.
Exactly.
A nurse friend has worked in multiple ERs. He explained to me that when the cops bring in a crazy person for mental health evaluation and the guy is combative they give them a shot but the shot actually contains 3 drugs. The first knocks the person out, and the 2nd and 3rd drugs are to counteract the side effects. When someone is really high they increase the dose of the sedative drug. They are also doing it in the safety of an ER where they can respond quickly with adverse reactions.
A tranq dart does sound awesome and maybe could be developed someday to be as safe or safer than a Taser. I suspect it is not as easy as it sounds otherwise someone would have made it the next Taser by now.
-
Exactly.
A nurse friend has worked in multiple ERs. He explained to me that when the cops bring in a crazy person for mental health evaluation and the guy is combative they give them a shot but the shot actually contains 3 drugs. The first knocks the person out, and the 2nd and 3rd drugs are to counteract the side effects. When someone is really high they increase the dose of the sedative drug. They are also doing it in the safety of an ER where they can respond quickly with adverse reactions.
A tranq dart does sound awesome and maybe could be developed someday to be as safe or safer than a Taser. I suspect it is not as easy as it sounds otherwise someone would have made it the next Taser by now.
You're quick to shoot down the dart suggestion, but so far you've not offered a single suggestion of your own.
Are you telling us you have absolutely no ideas for improving the ability of Cops to effectively and safely deal with people like this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/1x_L2lYyHoE
-
To be fair, it's not just Black women who ratchet up to 1,000+++ for no reason.
i really think a way to knock someone out who acts like this would prevent injuries to themselves and to others.
https://youtu.be/ZRViEg3yEDc
-
Tell us you're from New York before telling us you're from New York!
All this over being assigned a middle seat? Her reward: the whole back seat of the police car to herself! :rofl:
If tranquilizers are off the table, how about straight jackets, muzzles and laws that prohibit talking to officers above a certain decibel level over ambient sound? If you're yelling over traffic, that's okay up to a certain level. Screaming at the top of you lungs is probably not okay. Some of this videos of idiots screaming are giving me PTSD ... and i know it's just a recording!
https://youtu.be/BIibOWnayj4
-
You're quick to shoot down the dart suggestion, but so far you've not offered a single suggestion of your own.
Are you telling us you have absolutely no ideas for improving the ability of Cops to effectively and safely deal with people like this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/1x_L2lYyHoE
Not to shoot it down so much as to show why the risk might is probably not be worth the reward.
It isn't a terrible idea to start with but I wouldn't handle it out to officers. Maybe a better idea would be give it to paramedics and when they are called for a mental health situation they could deploy the tranq dart.
-
Not to shoot it down so much as to show why the risk might is probably not be worth the reward.
It isn't a terrible idea to start with but I wouldn't handle it out to officers. Maybe a better idea would be give it to paramedics and when they are called for a mental health situation they could deploy the tranq dart.
Tell me you're shooting down an idea while arguing that you're not shooting it down.
How is saying the risk is greater than the reward NOT shooting it down? Are you simply trying to be noncommittal even though you have an opposing opinion?
Is it SOP to have paramedics show up for every belligerent, out-of-control, loud mouth, ratchet subject? I don't think so. Therefore, the question remains --
Are you telling us you have absolutely no ideas for improving the ability of Cops, not paramedics, to effectively and safely deal with people like this? Is your answer to dispatch paramedics, who might have higher priority medical emergencies, to disturbances just to supply the officers with a safer dose of tranquilizer? Seems like a waste of resources. You know -- more cost than reward.
-
Tell me you're shooting down an idea while arguing that you're not shooting it down.
How is saying the risk is greater than the reward NOT shooting it down? Are you simply trying to be noncommittal even though you have an opposing opinion?
It isn't my fault you came up with a short sighted idea. If I were just shooting down your idea for the sake of it I wouldn't suggest a better way of implementing your idea. No reason to be offended here, are you familiar with the term constructive criticism?
Is it SOP to have paramedics show up for every belligerent, out-of-control, loud mouth, ratchet subject? I don't think so. Therefore, the question remains --
If only there was a way to change SOPs..... Plus it's not like they would need to come out to every case by policy, it could be an option available if the officer thought it appropriate to request.
Are you telling us you have absolutely no ideas for improving the ability of Cops, not paramedics, to effectively and safely deal with people like this? Is your answer to dispatch paramedics, who might have higher priority medical emergencies, to disturbances just to supply the officers with a safer dose of tranquilizer? Seems like a waste of resources. You know -- more cost than reward.
So you are trying to defend your short sighted idea by attacking me for not presenting you with alternative ideas? Why must I give you some better option just because I explained why yours was not a good one?
-
It isn't my fault you came up with a short sighted idea. If I were just shooting down your idea for the sake of it I wouldn't suggest a better way of implementing your idea. No reason to be offended here, are you familiar with the term constructive criticism?
If only there was a way to change SOPs..... Plus it's not like they would need to come out to every case by policy, it could be an option available if the officer thought it appropriate to request.
So you are trying to defend your short sighted idea by attacking me for not presenting you with alternative ideas? Why must I give you some better option just because I explained why yours was not a good one?
-- Are you seriously of the impression that a cop at the scene trying to deal with a person such as the ones in these videos has to show up, spend a bunch of time to try and resolve the call, then after deciding they can't calm the person down, they must then suffer the individual's behavior until paramedics find the time to get there? is that your suggestion?
-- Show me where i'm defending my original proposal. i never said it was a solution, just that it could be a better alternative than trying to physically subdue a subject physically which puts both the cop and subject at risk of significant injury.
I also never said you must provide a better option. i simply pointed out the obvious fact that you are commenting against my proposal and not offering up any other alternatives. I'd think you of all members here would be interested in this thought experiment, as it might actually relate to your job more than others'.
i hope you spent at least some time watching the videos. Maybe that can help you contribute more to the discussion than what we're seeing.
-
The more body cam videos I watch of arrests where screaming, out-of-control morons take a simple traffic stop and turn it into multiple felonies, the more I'm convinced the cops aren't using lethal force often enough.
They aren't all in the same demographic group we associate with this behavior, but I must not be finding all the other videos with white Catholic High School girls turning into the Tasmanian Devil just because "she dint do nuthin." i see plenty of European descendants causing problems in airports and restaurants, but it's normally because they are wasted. When the officer asks, "Do you know why i stopped you?" they normally don't say, "Because you're bored!!" and then start screaming at full volume that they did not drive how you witnessed them drive.
:wtf:
BTW, the top 4 things I hear from women while resisting arrest are:
1. I didn't do anything wrong (and all its variants);
2. I need to call my [mommy, daddy, boyfriend, husband, lawyer, ...];
3. I can't breathe! (even though they are screaming at the top of their lungs -- doesn't that require breathing?); and
4. I'm pregnant!
#4 begs the question, then why are you starting a fight and resisting arrest? Compliance seems to be a smarter choice for someone who's pregnant and wishes to avoid hurting the fetus. Most of the ones yelling this don't look close to pregnant, and i'm hearing it in more and more videos. Either it's a lie, or someone's not getting free Planned Parenthood abortions anymore!
Just observations and opinions. But it's good to know what's happening out there. Those body cams are protecting officers, the justice system and providing non-stop entertainment. Great use of tax payer funds!
:thumbsup: :geekdanc: :popcorn: :popcorn:
https://youtu.be/YiepAGTFyck
-
-- Are you seriously of the impression that a cop at the scene trying to deal with a person such as the ones in these videos has to show up, spend a bunch of time to try and resolve the call, then after deciding they can't calm the person down, they must then suffer the individual's behavior until paramedics find the time to get there? is that your suggestion?
-- Show me where i'm defending my original proposal. i never said it was a solution, just that it could be a better alternative than trying to physically subdue a subject physically which puts both the cop and subject at risk of significant injury.
I also never said you must provide a better option. i simply pointed out the obvious fact that you are commenting against my proposal and not offering up any other alternatives. I'd think you of all members here would be interested in this thought experiment, as it might actually relate to your job more than others'.
i hope you spent at least some time watching the videos. Maybe that can help you contribute more to the discussion than what we're seeing.
It all depends on the situation (of course). Is there an urgent need to get the person under control or are they in an area where they can stand and scream their face off without harming anyone until paramedics can arrive? If there is time then sure, paramedics can be called prior to intervention. Sometimes cops end up making a situation worse by moving in to control using force when there was no exigency, for example someone sitting in their room with a knife to their own throat. If we can wait 3-5 minutes for a tranq dart to take affect then we can probably get an ambulance on scene by waiting a few more minutes, otherwise there are all the standard less lethal options.
I am interested in that thought experiment but what I mentioned is a big reason I would not recommend that option, at least not to be utilized by officers alone. I wish I had some other magic bullet idea, I could certainly make a lot of money if I did, but I just don't know that such a thing exists. Maybe someday we will have phasers with a stun setting. The tasers seem to have made a huge leap in reducing injury in officers and in suspects but there is always room to improve that if people are still getting hurt. I am interested in exploring new types of discomfort to gain compliance than standard pain compliance. There were some interesting ideas I have seen explored before.
-
BTW, the top 4 things I hear from women while resisting arrest are:......
On an interesting and useful related note, statistically, women are more likely to assault officers than men are when looked at the number of arrest/detainment interactions. Overall men make up a higher total number but women are disproportionately more likely to attack an officer.
-
When one woman at a 24-hour car wash turns a simple request to leave after 3 hours into a broadway production with at last 8 cops.
https://youtu.be/MVhCwSO8b4Y
-
i'm starting to wonder if we have generations of adults now who were taught by their parents if they scream, kick, spit, and throw a horrendous tantrum, they can pretty much do, get and avoid anything.
I'm seeing a lot more females doing this than males. Males usually run, fight, and then get Tased. Females get threatened with being Tased, but the worst that normally happens is they get pepper sprayed and them hobbled (feet and hands bound together so they can't kick).
This gal is 19 years old. What made her believe this was the best option when dealing with law enforcement? "It always worked at home," is my guess.
i fear for the country if this keeps up.
https://youtu.be/02V1qDXhYsM
-
At least she was considerate enough to wear that T-shirt.
Saved to cops a lot of time predicting which way this was headed.
O0 :rofl:
https://youtu.be/OQirz2FZ5Ps