2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: TeamMidori on April 19, 2013, 01:09:31 AM

Title: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: TeamMidori on April 19, 2013, 01:09:31 AM
Went to the range on Thursday with this cool cat. Anyway I saw this letter posted on the wall. Maybe u guys saw it already but I thought I should post it anyway.

Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: SpeedTek on April 19, 2013, 01:38:46 AM
I cant believe the govt is making doctors ask these questions

To me a Gun in the house is as bad as owning a car.  The car is more dangerous than the gun. LOL

so that being said.....They should ask you if you own a car? Then ask Are you angry? If you answer yes than they should revoke your license......
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Pizzo on April 19, 2013, 07:17:52 AM
Damn...that's heavy!!

I'm starting to hear a lot about the gov't trying to take the vets guns away, now it seems they're posturing to take ours away too!!  :wtf:

I guess I shouldn't be suprised that they're using the doctors and nurses in hospitals to gain information and leverage, it's pretty F'd up!!  :grrr:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: macsak on April 19, 2013, 07:44:08 AM
i would check it out on snopes and other sources first before i believe it
don't have the time right now

Damn...that's heavy!!

I'm starting to hear a lot about the gov't trying to take the vets guns away, now it seems they're posturing to take ours away too!!  :wtf:

I guess I shouldn't be suprised that they're using the doctors and nurses in hospitals to gain information and leverage, it's pretty F'd up!!  :grrr:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: wirecounter on April 19, 2013, 07:56:15 AM
i would check it out on snopes and other sources first before i believe it
don't have the time right now

Snopes says it is false.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Pizzo on April 19, 2013, 08:02:52 AM
Snopes says it is false.
I sure hope Snope's is right.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Pizzo on April 19, 2013, 08:10:44 AM
i would check it out on snopes and other sources first

This may be a dumb question but I'm new to "Snopes" etc and am wondering.......

How do we know who runs the website and how do we know the site can be trusted?

Also, how do we know they aren't controlled or overseen by some gvmnt personnel/agency??

Just wondering, maybe I need to loosen my foil hat...lol!!  :crazy:

Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: SpeedTek on April 19, 2013, 08:14:46 AM
Sorry Snopes is FOS. Its run buy Leftwingers for disinformation.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: TeamMidori on April 19, 2013, 08:20:47 AM
^ for real?
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: crazy cat on April 19, 2013, 09:22:57 AM
Sorry Snopes is FOS. Its run buy Leftwingers for disinformation.

Reality has a liberal bias.....

Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: clshade on April 19, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
I'm getting a little tired of hearing "Oh, you can't trust that source because they have a (liberal/conservative) bias." (Not specifically here, just in general.) Only considering sources that have the same bias as you is a huge mistake. So is assuming that everything with a bias is part of a clandestine agenda. Or that every source that you disagree with is spreading disinformation.

Good info here. Its good to know that "they" are requiring new questions from our health care providers. Should I ever actually get asked those questions I've been forewarned and can answer in the obscure without missing a beat. I don't have to also assume that the jack booted government thugs are nearly at my door because of it.

There are 2 things going on in that letter. The important one can be summed up as "Health patients are being asked questions about their gun ownership. You do not have to answer those questions and your answers might be recorded in your medical records."

That is a statement of something happening and some neutral information about why it matters and what to do about it.

The rest of the letter is the author's interpretation of ~why~ that is happening. All of that is suspect and can be ignored without discounting that gun ownership may, in fact, be finding its way into health questionnaires.

Separating ~what happened~ from the various interpretations of ~what it means~ is a crucial critical thinking skill. An event is news. The interpretation of that event will ~always~ be biased and incomplete.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: TeamMidori on April 19, 2013, 10:08:54 AM
So what do u guys think is the best response to these questions?
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: dirtylickins on April 19, 2013, 10:49:14 AM
So what do u guys think is the best response to these questions?
I DO Not. ::)
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: HiCarry on April 19, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
So what do u guys think is the best response to these questions?

As a medical professional who has followed some of this issue for the last couple of years, (read up on the Florida law that would have prohibited doctors from asking such firearms related questions) the answer is:

"Why are you asking?" If they say it's to make an evaluation of the general safety concerns about firearms, ask them what their training is when it comes to firearms. Are they certified firearms instructors? What training have they received beyond their medical training that would qualify them to make a professional assessment about risk assessments pertaining to firearm ownership and use.
Ask them what the information is being used for?
Then decline to answer.

As for the VA asking, I believe it was a legitimate attempt to identify those at risk for PTSD and suicide. It seems to have been incorporated into a larger effort to deny gun ownership to more vets and service members that just those with PTSD AND at risk for self harm.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: TeamMidori on April 19, 2013, 11:30:45 AM
^thanks
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: bass monkey on April 19, 2013, 11:38:36 AM
As a medical professional who has followed some of this issue for the last couple of years, (read up on the Florida law that would have prohibited doctors from asking such firearms related questions) the answer is:

"Why are you asking?" If they say it's to make an evaluation of the general safety concerns about firearms, ask them what their training is when it comes to firearms. Are they certified firearms instructors? What training have they received beyond their medical training that would qualify them to make a professional assessment about risk assessments pertaining to firearm ownership and use.
Ask them what the information is being used for?
Then decline to answer.

As for the VA asking, I believe it was a legitimate attempt to identify those at risk for PTSD and suicide. It seems to have been incorporated into a larger effort to deny gun ownership to more vets and service members that just those with PTSD AND at risk for self harm.


Thank you HiCarry
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: xer 21 on April 19, 2013, 12:34:41 PM
this has been floating around the internet for months.


its facebook chainletter bullshit.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: GZire on April 19, 2013, 12:49:24 PM
Sorry Snopes is FOS. Its run buy Leftwingers for disinformation.


Is anything not a conspiracy?
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: wirecounter on April 19, 2013, 12:50:53 PM

Thank you HiCarry

+1

BS or not, good to know
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: powder monkey on April 19, 2013, 01:40:21 PM
haha......................just say      NO!
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Sturmgeschutz on April 19, 2013, 02:43:45 PM
HMSA had a question about firearm ownership in a health survey years ago
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Cougar8045 on April 19, 2013, 06:32:11 PM
I don't know if Snopes has a bias or not, but they're certainly not the end-all, be-all of truth and virtue.  It's not a crack team of forensic investigators working among the stacks at the Library of Congress, it's a husband and wife duo searching the internet.  I don't consider them any more reliable than anyone else who purports to tell me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Tom on April 19, 2013, 07:11:10 PM
When we apply for a permit, we sign a medical waiver.   I've always assumed the HPD sends a note to my doctor saying something like "Should X be prohibited from owning a firearm?".  So, they know already...
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: kevlar on April 19, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
This is all part and parcel of the government wanting to eventually classify gun ownership as a sign of mental illness.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: GreenStomper on April 19, 2013, 08:16:58 PM
Ive been "sick" for years, enjoying every moment of it.  ;D
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Kingkeoni on April 19, 2013, 08:18:07 PM
Ive been "sick" for years, enjoying every moment of it.  ;D

 :rofl:

And your "sickness" has absolutely nothing to do with guns.

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: BananaClip on April 19, 2013, 08:47:29 PM
No guns.... just tools to protect me against tyranny.....
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Hunter1007 on April 19, 2013, 08:55:52 PM
Do you think I can call in sick tomorrow? I mean I'll be at the range so it wouldn't be lying :shaka:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: 230RN on April 19, 2013, 09:28:26 PM
"Hell no Doc.  It's not in my house.  It's in my pocket, where it's safe."
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: clshade on April 19, 2013, 09:44:29 PM
"Hell no Doc.  It's not in my house.  It's in my pocket, where it's safe."

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: macsak on April 19, 2013, 09:53:12 PM
how's about-
"i refuse to answer on the grounds i may incriminate myself"
:)

No guns.... just tools to protect me against tyranny.....
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: OldFaithful on April 20, 2013, 12:12:34 AM
I would just say no, but if you really do and since in Hawaii police DO know, you couldn't get in trouble right...
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: moosed on April 20, 2013, 12:37:09 AM
I would just say no, but if you really do and since in Hawaii police DO know, you couldn't get in trouble right...

Not really.  If I'm reading their signals right, the doctor would have to receive your "red flag" answer (Yes, I own guns) coupled with a risky diagnosis (You are suffering from deep depression over your dog running away).  They would then report you to HPD, who would then come ask politely for your guns while their armed backup stands in your doorway.

However, if you say "No guns, Doc," then the report should not be sent, and hence no trigger to initiate an official HPD house call.

That's how I THINK it's designed to work.  I could be wrong, since my brain is wired more logically than the typical Liberal politician's!   :wacko:
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: Colt808 on April 20, 2013, 04:05:21 AM
Several variations that letter have been floating around months. It's always someone going in for something routine and the question comes up. Then on follow up questions, everyone is conveniently related to or knows an 'authority figure' (DHS, FBI, Sheriff etc.) who gave the advice to keep a loaded gun.

So....
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/toole06/bullshit-o-meter.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/toole06/media/bullshit-o-meter.gif.html)

how's about-
"i refuse to answer on the grounds i may incriminate myself"
:)
If you're going to refuse to answer (regardless of who asks), then keep it simple and say "I refuse to answer that" or "It's none of your business".  That additional statement implies that firearms ownership is criminal and we all know it's not.
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: 230RN on April 20, 2013, 05:17:16 AM
"Sure, you wanna buy a few?"
Title: Re: Do you have any guns in the house?
Post by: macsak on April 20, 2013, 05:33:46 AM
that's why i put the smiley
http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/grin.gif (http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/grin.gif)

If you're going to refuse to answer (regardless of who asks), then keep it simple and say "I refuse to answer that" or "It's none of your business".  That additional statement implies that firearms ownership is criminal and we all know it's not.