2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Defend Hawaii on December 23, 2010, 08:08:10 AM
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http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/ (http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/)
KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!! We do not need this in OUR beloved State Aloha :shaka:
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Hey Defend Hawaii,
I've removed some of the content of the post because it was just a copy and paste of another blog and anyone can just go there to read.
Can I ask, why do you feel people should be allowed to carry? Is it both open carry or concealed carry or both? Did you actually apply for a concealed carry permit?
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2A HAWAII,
I did not apply for CCW. I did apply to be a Police Officer.
This 2nd Ammendent is so gray and we all have differerent interpretations of it.
Not to be a D::K or anything but i am just expressing my point of view on CCW in Hawaii.
Happy Holidays :shaka:
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Actually, it's not gray. It's claimed to be gray only by people who don't like what's plainly written there and try to interpret it in their own words. Then, their interpreted version is spread like gospel. One only needs to read it.
http://www.armed-citizens.com/ArmedCitizens/ArmedCitizens.aspx (http://www.armed-citizens.com/ArmedCitizens/ArmedCitizens.aspx) <-- September
http://www.nrapublications.org/AC/index.asp (http://www.nrapublications.org/AC/index.asp) <-- October
If all you want to look at is CCW, then by all means pick them out and read only those in the links, just keep in mind that for every one you disagree that they were able to defend themselves, you're advocating their serious injury or death. That's just a fact, not a guess or feelings.
Unfortunately, your link is of the bad apples variation. Just like a few bad hunters paints all hunters as drunk law-breakers with guns.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing your views. At the very least, opposing views gives me things to think about, if unable to change them.
:shaka:
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2A,
He's saying keep CCW out of Hawaii. You can review his previous posts and it's clear he is anti-CCW. Just clearing up any confusion.
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2A HAWAII,
I did not apply for CCW. I did apply to be a Police Officer.
This 2nd Ammendent is so gray and we all have differerent interpretations of it.
Not to be a D::K or anything but i am just expressing my point of view on CCW in Hawaii.
Happy Holidays :shaka:
Actually, all you've posted up a link to a blog with a bunch of sensational news stories. I've yet to see any sort of tangible argument out of you as to why CCW would be bad for the people of Hawaii.
I just turned in my CCW permit today.... It is called the City and County of Honolulu Metropolitan Police Application. At first i was fustrated by the strict gun laws in Hawaii, but hell it is what it is, plus i always wanted to be a police officer. Good luck to all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If i am not mistaken all you folks are allowed to carry on your personal property (home or work). Not to be mean or anything but you all act like lil bitchedsabout ccw. If you really truly wanna feel safe learn a martial art or become law enforcement then you can carry all the guns you want. Until then i suggest u all quit your moaning, bitching, and crying....... Except for randomn acts of violence (uesugi, Mau Gofredo, ewa beach stabbing) violent life threatening crimes do not really happen. Really guys you gonna point your lil pistol at some sole who decided to give you a stink eye after u said something stupid to him? Bottom line is this, THIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... IF YOU DO NOT LIKE OUR CCW LAWS GO BACK TO THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aloha Oe, Mele Kalikimaka... Take care and have a safe Holiday Season....
Police officers are allowed to CCW in Hawaii. You applied to be a police officer. One can only conclude that you think CCW is acceptable for some people in Hawaii, but not others.
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Defend,
In one of your previous posts you said,
So let me get this straight, In the State of Hawaii we are at the mercy of the Chief of Police for CCW??? Thats messed up!!!! As a United States Citizen i feel that this is against our Constitutional Rights. Cmon HPD how many more poor innocent people are gonna get hurt before u allow us responsible gun owners to legally carry our firearms.
Fellow 2A members i know that i am new but i am a voice that needs to be heard.
Aloha,
And yet, in many others, you now have seemed to have changed your mind. ???
I do not know what your intentions here are, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, this web forum is here for like minded, freedom loving, Americans to discuss how we can get our freedoms restored. Not for you to spread your miss informed anti-gun sentiment.
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2A HAWAII,
I did not apply for CCW. I did apply to be a Police Officer.
This 2nd Ammendent is so gray and we all have differerent interpretations of it.
Not to be a D::K or anything but i am just expressing my point of view on CCW in Hawaii.
Happy Holidays :shaka:
Actually, all you've posted up a link to a blog with a bunch of sensational news stories. I've yet to see any sort of tangible argument out of you as to why CCW would be bad for the people of Hawaii.
Police officers are allowed to CCW in Hawaii. You applied to be a police officer. One can only conclude that you think CCW is acceptable for some people in Hawaii, but not others.
Police Officers are sworn to protect 24/7. They are required to carry GUN, Badge, ID, and hundcuffs at all times.....
Eh i realize that most of you would be responsible CCW holders, but the danger of none responsible CCW holders is just to great. As passionate about CCW u are i am very afraid that in the wrong hands CCW HAWAII would be a mess....
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Defend,
In one of your previous posts you said,
So let me get this straight, In the State of Hawaii we are at the mercy of the Chief of Police for CCW??? Thats messed up!!!! As a United States Citizen i feel that this is against our Constitutional Rights. Cmon HPD how many more poor innocent people are gonna get hurt before u allow us responsible gun owners to legally carry our firearms.
Fellow 2A members i know that i am new but i am a voice that needs to be heard.
Aloha,
And yet, in many others, you now have seemed to have changed your mind. ???
I do not know what your intentions here are, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, this web forum is here for like minded, freedom loving, Americans to discuss how we can get our freedoms restored. Not for you to spread your miss informed anti-gun sentiment.
Check my post that was my first one or 2. Thats what happens when u do not lock your computer at work >:(
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Eh i realize that most of you would be responsible CCW holders, but the danger of none responsible CCW holders is just to great. As passionate about CCW u are i am very afraid that in the wrong hands CCW HAWAII would be a mess....
Please read about other states that switched over from no-issue to shall-issue. I am pleading that you read that. Those who have dignity admitted that their fears were unfound once they switched.
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Police Officers are sworn to protect 24/7. They are required to carry GUN, Badge, ID, and hundcuffs at all times.....
Eh i realize that most of you would be responsible CCW holders, but the danger of none responsible CCW holders is just to great. As passionate about CCW u are i am very afraid that in the wrong hands CCW HAWAII would be a mess....
Guns are in the hands of the wrong people all the time, every day-- we call them "criminals". By definition criminals do not obey the law, so stricter gun laws and limiting gun rights (such as not having CCW) only limits the good and honest citizens who obey the law. You even made mention of some of these criminals:
..Except for randomn acts of violence (uesugi, Mau Gofredo, ewa beach stabbing) violent life threatening crimes do not really happen. Really guys you gonna point your lil pistol at some sole who decided to give you a stink eye after u said something stupid to him?
The police did not and could not prevent these crimes from happening. Could an armed citizen have? Perhaps.
I have a kitchen full of knives, a garage full of power tools, and a 2000+ lb automobile. The same can be said more or less for any adult. Yet we don't see people hacking each other up with meat cleavers, dismembering each other with power tools, or running each other over with cars whenever they get mad, because the vast majority of society are good and decent people. A firearm is just another tool. So why then, if we have all these other tools that can be used for evil but very rarely are, do you expect citizens with a firearm to be any different?
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Check my post that was my first one or 2. Thats what happens when u do not lock your computer at work
???
Still don't get it. So what is it you do, and why did you become a member here?
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Are sworn, it is NOT their duty to protect you.
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981).
"...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)
"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)
and lastly...
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES
On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order. Mrs. Gonzales' husband with a track record of violence, stabbing Mrs. Gonzales to death, Mrs. Gonzales' family could not get the Supreme Court to change their unanimous decision for one's individual protection.
This is the LAW DH. Not conjecture. Law enforcement agencies are NOT required to protect YOU. This is why CCW is so important, it gives everyone a fighting chance at defending themselves. Criminals by definition will not follow the law, and will carry a firearm no matter what.
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http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/ (http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/)
KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!! We do not need this in OUR beloved State Aloha :shaka:
bboytum? found your way over from FH ahh?
by the way, born n raised :shaka:
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Check my post that was my first one or 2. Thats what happens when u do not lock your computer at work >:(
So which are you, the first or the second persona?
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Check my post that was my first one or 2. Thats what happens when u do not lock your computer at work >:(
So which are you, the first or the second persona?
He switches to the one that favors his own personal agenda. He's a regular ol joe, he supports ccw. He thinks hes going to be a cop, he supports ccw for leo only.
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bboytum? found your way over from FH ahh?
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Oh bradda.
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Check my post that was my first one or 2. Thats what happens when u do not lock your computer at work >:(
So which are you, the first or the second persona?
Mr. Hawaii 2A.
I am against CCW in Hawaii. Sorry for the confusion...
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http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/ (http://abusingtheprivilege.blogspot.com/)
KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!! We do not need this in OUR beloved State Aloha :shaka:
bboytum? found your way over from FH ahh?
by the way, born n raised :shaka:
I have no idea what you are talking about!!
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Oh bradda.
Oh Braddah!! :shaka:
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Defend Hawaii
Just curious ...what firearms do you currently own?
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Okay, just for a little more information, why did you decide to post this thread?
Is it just to say that concealed carry permit holders commit crimes too?
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States with higher gun ownership rates and weak gun laws have the highest rates of overall gun death according to a new analysis by the Violence Policy Center (VPC) of just-released 2007 national data (the most recent available) from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.
The analysis reveals that the five states with the highest per capita gun death rates were Louisiana, Mississippi, Alaska, Alabama, and Nevada. Each of these states had a per capita gun death rate far exceeding the national per capita gun death rate of 10.34 per 100,000 for 2007. Each of the top-ranking states has lax gun laws and higher gun ownership rates. By contrast, states with strong gun laws and low rates of gun ownership had far lower rates of firearm-related death. Ranking last in the nation for gun death was Hawaii, followed by Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New York.
States with "weak" gun laws as those that add little or nothing to federal restrictions and have permissive laws governing the open or concealed carrying of firearms in public. States with "strong" gun laws were defined as those that add significant state regulation in addition to federal law, such as restricting access to particularly hazardous types of firearms (for example, assault weapons), setting minimum safety standards for firearms and/or requiring a permit to purchase a firearm, and restrictive laws governing the open and concealed carrying of firearms in public. State gun ownership rates were obtained from the September 2005 Pediatrics article “Prevalence of Household Firearms and Firearm-Storage Practices in the 50 States and the District of Columbia: Findings From the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, 2002,†which is the most up-to-date, comprehensive source for state gun ownership rates
Good enough for me!!! :thumbsup:
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So why does places like DC and Chicago have such high murder rates?
That study is BS. It shows absolutely nothing. Of course more guns present will cause more gun deaths. Just like more cars on the road = more accidents.
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So which anti-CCW persona is really you? The intelligent, polite persona who cites references and can debate in an adult manner or the childish, disrespectful one who has been posting useless garbage? Please clear this up. I think we're all confused as to why you're really here and what your agenda is. I have my theories but I'll keep them to myself and see if they pan out.
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Well isn't this funny, you went from a 2nd Amendment believer to a Brady Campaign/VPC spokesman. I guess that about says it all. Where do California and Maryland rank on those lists of yours?
For anyone interested the VPC's statistics lump suicides in with the lot. Not very related to your personal safety now, is it.
The good news: VPC is trying to reduce suicides
The bad news: There are many better ways than through gun control
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There are good and bad people in this world. Bad people don't follow laws. Police officer to civilian ratio isn't 1 to 1 obviously....we can't pull a police officer out of our pocket or handbag as needed. There's only one reason to keep " guns" away from good people...aaaaaahhhhhh DING! Control...
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So which anti-CCW persona is really you? The intelligent, polite persona who cites references and can debate in an adult manner or the childish, disrespectful one who has been posting useless garbage? Please clear this up. I think we're all confused as to why you're really here and what your agenda is. I have my theories but I'll keep them to myself and see if they pan out.
He's cut and past *OTHER* peoples gun arguments, and still doesn't demonstrate a knowledge or understanding of the topics contained therein. As far as the VPC statistics goes, you could probably thank Asian culture for suicide being a total disgrace.
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My Opinion: TROLL
If he wants to play THAT game. Disprove this Web Site: Texas Department of Public Safety. They issue the CCW permits AND they have kept Records of EVERY violation made by a Permittee since inception
in 1996 to 2007. Because of the justice system, Reports come out 2 years afterwards.
This is CCW permittees versus the General Texas population.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm)
Florida, one of the First, if Not the First state to go SHALL issue, report showed that the CCW people had a Better gun safety record than Maiami-Dade PD.
Vermont and Alaska do NOT normally issue CCW permits. Only to residents who travel out of state and need "papers". Both are so trouble free that No Permit to CCW is issued.
Minnesota went CCW in one week from the time it was introduced into the legislature. Zipped thru House, Senate and Governor in one Week.
At least 42 states are SHALL ISSUE, if CCW were Sooo BAD as the TROLL Claims why are there so many SHALL ISSUE states and Not May issue like Hawaii?
For the Record 36 states allow ownership of FULL AUTO firearms AND Sound Surpressors. Ownership of FA and Supressors Must be Approved by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer
of that particular jurisdiction. Considering How Many private citizens own supressors and Full Auto, a lot of Chiefs must be OK with citizens in their jurisdiction owning Supressed Full Auto Firearms.
Look at how many Full Auto Machine Gun shoot there are all over the US. From Tennessee to Oregon to Texas.
IF FA and supressors were legal in Hawaii, the Wife would own a Sgt Saunder's type Thompson SMG just for kicks and giggles.
I'd have me a Beretta 93R.
BTW, Beretta's e store is selling Genuine Beretta 92/93, 20 and 30 round magazines, On Sale. Too bad they're a No No here in Hawaii.
Best mags for the 92 seires Beretta,
PS: Next time I want to photograph Night Blooming Cerus flowers can I ask for a Police Escort and NOT a Special Duty Officer. After Mau-Gefredo we are in fear of our
personal safety. I can get a Permit from the City Transportation Department, Street Usage Section for All of Tanatalus Drive.
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Defend Hawaii
Just curious ...what firearms do you currently own?
An honest question gets an honest answer.
I am a registered gun owner in the State of Hawaii.
Currently I own 3 pistol, a shotgun and a rifle.
Yes folks i am a gun owner who is against CCW!!!!
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Okay, just for a little more information, why did you decide to post this thread?
Is it just to say that concealed carry permit holders commit crimes too?
No Sir.
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So why does places like DC and Chicago have such high murder rates?
That study is BS. It shows absolutely nothing. Of course more guns present will cause more gun deaths. Just like more cars on the road = more accidents.
Thank You we agree on something :thumbsup:
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So which anti-CCW persona is really you? The intelligent, polite persona who cites references and can debate in an adult manner or the childish, disrespectful one who has been posting useless garbage? Please clear this up. I think we're all confused as to why you're really here and what your agenda is. I have my theories but I'll keep them to myself and see if they pan out.
He's cut and past *OTHER* peoples gun arguments, and still doesn't demonstrate a knowledge or understanding of the topics contained therein. As far as the VPC statistics goes, you could probably thank[b] asian culture [/b] for suicide being a total disgrace.
And you say that i am a racsit and sterotype people :wacko:
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There are good and bad people in this world. Bad people don't follow laws. Police officer to civilian ratio isn't 1 to 1 obviously....we can't pull a police officer out of our pocket or handbag as needed. There's only one reason to keep " guns" away from good people...aaaaaahhhhhh DING! Control...
There is no credible evidence that "right-to-carry" laws, which allow qualified adults to carry concealed handguns, either decrease or increase violent crime.
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My Opinion: TROLL
If he wants to play THAT game. Disprove this Web Site: Texas Department of Public Safety. They issue the CCW permits AND they have kept Records of EVERY violation made by a Permittee since inception
in 1996 to 2007. Because of the justice system, Reports come out 2 years afterwards.
This is CCW permittees versus the General Texas population.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm)
Florida, one of the First, if Not the First state to go SHALL issue, report showed that the CCW people had a Better gun safety record than Maiami-Dade PD.
Vermont and Alaska do NOT normally issue CCW permits. Only to residents who travel out of state and need "papers". Both are so trouble free that No Permit to CCW is issued.
Minnesota went CCW in one week from the time it was introduced into the legislature. Zipped thru House, Senate and Governor in one Week.
At least 42 states are SHALL ISSUE, if CCW were Sooo BAD as the TROLL Claims why are there so many SHALL ISSUE states and Not May issue like Hawaii?
For the Record 36 states allow ownership of FULL AUTO firearms AND Sound Surpressors. Ownership of FA and Supressors Must be Approved by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer
of that particular jurisdiction. Considering How Many private citizens own supressors and Full Auto, a lot of Chiefs must be OK with citizens in their jurisdiction owning Supressed Full Auto Firearms.
Look at how many Full Auto Machine Gun shoot there are all over the US. From Tennessee to Oregon to Texas.
IF FA and supressors were legal in Hawaii, the Wife would own a Sgt Saunder's type Thompson SMG just for kicks and giggles.
I'd have me a Beretta 93R.
BTW, Beretta's e store is selling Genuine Beretta 92/93, 20 and 30 round magazines, On Sale. Too bad they're a No No here in Hawaii.
Best mags for the 92 seires Beretta,
PS: Next time I want to photograph Night Blooming Cerus flowers can I ask for a Police Escort and NOT a Special Duty Officer. After Mau-Gefredo we are in fear of our
personal safety. I can get a Permit from the City Transportation Department, Street Usage Section for All of Tanatalus Drive.
PSS I thought some of your friends said that LEO do not need to protect you or your property... ??? ???
All of u the Police Bashing is really truly childish. These men and women are sworn to protect you, your loved ones, and your property, whether you wanna believe it or not.
How many of u actually talk to HPD about guns, range, shooting, gun laws etc??
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Personally I know LEO that support CCW.
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You haven't really answered the question...."Why are you on here?"
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I have a lot of childhood friends that are police officers. But I can't pull a police officer out of my pocket when in need of emergency. No police bashing intended. My wife and kids got robbed in Daiei while I was at work a while back. The perp took my wifes purse right out of my daughters lap when my wife turned to get something off the shelf for a split second. Now we're fighting indentity theft and a few other legal battles. I wonder if the perps having a good time knowing we "good folk" don't pack.......
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You haven't really answered the question...."Why are you on here?"
I am here to Defend Hawaii against CCW Permits.
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I have a lot of childhood friends that are police officers. But I can't pull a police officer out of my pocket when in need of emergency. No police bashing intended. My wife and kids got robbed in Daiei while I was at work a while back. The perp took my wifes purse right out of my daughters lap when my wife turned to get something off the shelf for a split second. Now we're fighting indentity theft and a few other legal battles. I wonder if the perps having a good time knowing we "good folk" don't pack.......
Banana, I am sorry to hear about your families unfortunate incident at Holiday Mart.
Was your family hurt during the theft? Any physical force used? Did the suspect brandish a weapon?
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All of u the Police Bashing is really truly childish. These men and women are sworn to protect you, your loved ones, and your property, whether you wanna believe it or not.
Lets be clear on this.
There is NO police bashing going on here. Just truth in reality.
Police, if they are available, will protect the public from harm and crime as best they can. Most time they are not able to come at a moments notice, and police are not responsible for your personal protection.
This is not bashing, it is just fact.
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Was your family hurt during the theft? Any physical force used? Did the suspect brandish a weapon?
What does it matter?
Hind sight is twenty/twenty. The questions should be,
What if my family is hurt during the theft?
What if there is physical force used?
What if the suspect brandishes a weapon?
What are you/they going to do if this situation happens to you/them, knowing that they could kill or do other unspeakable things??
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Banana, I am sorry to hear of this incident.
It is obvious that this person never had this type of situation happen to them, and can never understand what bad things can happen in a matter of seconds.
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Was your family hurt during the theft? Any physical force used? Did the suspect brandish a weapon?
What does it matter? What police will classify the case to be. His family was not robbed. No physical force used in the course of theft.
Hind sight is twenty/twenty. The questions should be,
What if my family is hurt during the theft? Robbery 2nd case generated. Felony charges for the suspect. Still no life or death matter.
What if there is physical force used? see above
What if the suspect brandishes a weapon? Robbery 1st charge. Deadly force situation.
What are you/they going to do if this situation happens to you/them, knowing that they could kill or do other unspeakable things?? PRAY
So what if u had a CCW permit would u shoot the guy who just grabbed the purse??
What if your wifes handgun was in the purse
What would u do Mr. Heavies??
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Banana, I am sorry to hear of this incident.
It is obvious that this person never had this type of situation happen to them, and can never understand what bad things can happen in a matter of seconds.
Heavies if you only knew... Assumptions and underestimating "the enemy" could be very big mistake!!!!!
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You haven't really answered the question...."Why are you on here?"
I am here to Defend Hawaii against CCW Permits.
You want to become a police officer, right? You want to serve and protect the people?
Well right now you are trying to give the law abiding citizen a disadvantage in this fight against crime.
Your statement goes against being a police officer.
Your logic is faulty, and you keep going around in circles.
You should be DEFENDING HAWAII against the chronics, crackheads, and criminals!
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Heavies if you only knew... Assumptions and underestimating "the enemy" could be very big mistake!!!!!
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take this statement?
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So what if u had a CCW permit would u shoot the guy who just grabbed the purse??
What if your wifes handgun was in the purse
What would u do Mr. Heavies??
What needs to be done.
In this situation, no one can tell what will happen until the time comes.
You have this idea in your head that CCW holders will just blast caps at any one who confronts them.
The fact is, all around the country, CCW holders do more good than the bad apples that do harm.
Look and study the facts, before you make assumptions.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=372361 (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=372361)
http://patriotpost.us/opinion/larry-elder/2010/12/23/liberals-50-years-of-dreadful-domestic-policy/ (http://patriotpost.us/opinion/larry-elder/2010/12/23/liberals-50-years-of-dreadful-domestic-policy/)
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Heavies if you only knew... Assumptions and underestimating "the enemy" could be very big mistake!!!!!
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take this statement?
Heavies i have seen the evil in life that for most will haunt them..
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So what if u had a CCW permit would u shoot the guy who just grabbed the purse??
What if your wifes handgun was in the purse
What would u do Mr. Heavies??
What needs to be done.
In this situation, no one can tell what will happen until the time comes. Never answer my question.. What would u do if u were at Holiday Mart and your wifes purse was taken???
You have this idea in your head that CCW holders will just blast caps at any one who confronts them. Nah most of you are sharp good people. Some of you should not have passed the background checks to obtain firearms PERIOD!!!!!
The fact is, all around the country, CCW holders do more good than the bad apples that do harm. There really is no proof!! Sorry Sir this will go round and round and round again..
Look and study the facts, before you make assumptions.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=372361 (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=372361)
http://patriotpost.us/opinion/larry-elder/2010/12/23/liberals-50-years-of-dreadful-domestic-policy/ (http://patriotpost.us/opinion/larry-elder/2010/12/23/liberals-50-years-of-dreadful-domestic-policy/)
This much i know. Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW!! Please do not bring this to OUR STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Heavies i have seen the evil in life that for most will haunt them..
This much i know. Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW!! Please do not bring this to OUR STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These two statements contradict each other, and you keep looping in circles. Your logic is flawed, your mind is closed, and I am done. You have proved my points. :closed:
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All on this board.
Defend Hawaii is one of those people who are here only to slander, incite anger, and get us pro 2A folks to lose our cool and paint Hawaii with CCW out to be the shootout at the OK corral.
We have all seen his/her type before on various forums, online newspaper articles, etc; spreading misinformation and posing as someone they are not.
Anything you say to him/her will be turned around in some vain attempt to support his/her cause (or someone elses)
Go back to the original post and read it all again...If you haven't noticed by now, this person is digging hard at CCW in Hawaii.
Do not fall into the trap, just ignore.
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Hahahahahaha! Good try Defend Hawaii. You take care now and always GOD bless......
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All on this board.
Defend Hawaii is one of those people who are here only to slander, incite anger, and get us pro 2A folks to lose our cool and paint Hawaii with CCW out to be the shootout at the OK corral.
We have all seen his/her type before on various forums, online newspaper articles, etc; spreading misinformation and posing as someone they are not.
Anything you say to him/her will be turned around in some vain attempt to support his/her cause (or someone elses)
Go back to the original post and read it all again...If you haven't noticed by now, this person is digging hard at CCW in Hawaii.
Do not fall into the trap, just ignore.
I've come to this conclusion as he repeatedly refuses to actually read anything that's presented here. He's locked onto an ideal and closes his eyes to everything else. He's continuously many steps behind and ignores statistics and facts and is lead by emotion and feelings. I've given him the respect of reading what he's presented but there is no reciprocation, judging by his posts. There's no point in a debate with a deaf man. I've chosen to ignore him for that reason.
:wave:
:closed:
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Heavies i have seen the evil in life that for most will haunt them..
This much i know. Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW!! Please do not bring this to OUR STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These two statements contradict each other, and you keep looping in circles. Your logic is flawed, your mind is closed, and I am done. You have proved my points. :closed:
ugh I have lived and worked on the mainland. FYI i did security work in Vegas. Saw some things that would make SOME of u very scared.
CCW will arm u but it will also bfring one more gun to the battle. What i am trying to say is that the gun on your hip may end up in the hands of the attacker.
Some of you are well trained at the range and from classes given by gun instructors.
Some of u are former military
Most of u are novice who will be killed before you would even get a chance to unholster your gun......
Just keeping it REAL fellahs!!!!
Eh all BS aside i really do wish you and yours a Happy Merry Christmas......
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Look at it this way, we must be doing something right with this website and the momentum we're gaining if we're getting trolls. Defend Hawaii is just proof of our success and will only serve to solitify our resolve.
The sad thing about you Defend Hawaii, is you're not even a cop and you already think you're better than everyone else.
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Look at it this way, we must be doing something right with this website and the momentum we're gaining if we're getting trolls.
:thumbsup:
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I sure hope the majority of Police Officers in Hawaii do not have "Defend Hawaii's" attitude. What a sad statement as to the inner thinking's of a Law Enforcement Agency that would not screen that psychological profile out...
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I sure hope the majority of Police Officers in Hawaii do not have "Defend Hawaii's" attitude. What a sad statement as to the inner thinking's of a Law Enforcement Agency that would not screen that psychological profile out...
Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for. NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!
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I sure hope the majority of Police Officers in Hawaii do not have "Defend Hawaii's" attitude. What a sad statement as to the inner thinking's of a Law Enforcement Agency that would not screen that psychological profile out...
The HPD has a pretty rigorous screening process, so I'm told. And there are many who support. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for. NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!
Yep, law abiding citizens who take the time to go down to the police department, get a background check, get fingerprinted, get doctors' approval, then aply for their permits, wait several weeks and finally come back and register their guns... how dangerous these individuals are for law enforcement! It's like they're saying, "here I am, this is where I live, and these are the guns I have and this is proof I am sane and able to have them!" And if you think law enforcement should be afraid of people like that, then you sir have no buisness in law enforcement. :rofl:
I for one do not hate you; I just feel very sorry for you and whatever slanted upbringing that prevents you from seeing logic and reason. I think you've proven a better argument for better public education, rather than anything anti-CCW. You've been intellectually manhandled in this thread, yet you keep coming back. Kudos to you for beind the debate-practice-dummy. :thumbsup:
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Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for. NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!
Yep, law abiding citizens who take the time to go down to the police department, get a background check, get fingerprinted, get doctors' approval, then aply for their permits, wait several weeks and finally come back and register their guns... how dangerous these individuals are for law enforcement! It's like they're saying, "here I am, this is where I live, and these are the guns I have and this is proof I am sane and able to have them!" And if you think law enforcement should be afraid of people like that, then you sir have no buisness in law enforcement. :rofl:
I for one do not hate you; I just feel very sorry for you and whatever slanted upbringing that prevents you from seeing logic and reason. I think you've proven a better argument for better public education, rather than anything anti-CCW. You've been intellectually manhandled in this thread, yet you keep coming back. Kudos to you for beind the debate-practice-dummy. :thumbsup:
I find no evidence that counties with above-average rates of
gun ownership within CCW states experienced larger declines in crime
than low-ownership counties did, suggesting either that gun owners did
not increase the frequency with which they carried their guns or that
criminals were not deterred by the greater likelihood that their victims
would be armed. These findings weaken the claim that CCW legislation
could plausibly have reduced violent crime rates.
Oh there i go cutting and pasting again... :rofl:
Really guys there is no proof on this. I see apples u see oranges.
I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS.
U can cut and paste that to the bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
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I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS...
...Except for randomn acts of violence (uesugi, Mau Gofredo, ewa beach stabbing) violent life threatening crimes do not really happen.
Uhuh, "safe" unless you happen to be a victim of one of those guys or any other psychopath with the intent to kill, right? Be sure to wash your feet every time you post in this thread so you won't have that funky taste when you put your foot in your mouth. :thumbsup:
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Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for. NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!
Cute soundbite, too bad it's not supported by facts. "A (2001) survey released Friday by the National Association of Chiefs of Police finds that over 60 percent of the nation's police chiefs and sheriffs favor a national system allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms." (1)
I find no evidence that counties with above-average rates of
gun ownership within CCW states experienced larger declines in crime
than low-ownership counties did, suggesting either that gun owners did
not increase the frequency with which they carried their guns or that
criminals were not deterred by the greater likelihood that their victims
would be armed. These findings weaken the claim that CCW legislation
could plausibly have reduced violent crime rates.
Actually, this IS the case...here is a perfect example from Washington D.C. and the surrounding counties.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/31/AR2009123103039.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/31/AR2009123103039.html)
This article provides interesting data for two points: 1) areas with strict gun control laws typically have a significantly greater violent crime rate than surrounding less-regulated areas, and 2) that the Heller ruling by the SCOTUS to eliminate the handgun ban apparently played a part in SIGNIFICANTLY lowering the murder rate.
Just sayin'.
- Alex
References:
(1) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/581314/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/581314/posts)
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Oops, forgot this part...
I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS.
Too bad the overall violent and property crime rates are up (to include: forcible rape, aggravated assault, and larceny-theft). (1) Furthermore, 100% of the violent crime of Hawaii occurs in Honolulu, which is in the 61% rank nationally. In other words, 60% of the nation's cities have a violent crime rate lower than Honolulu. (2) You can call that safe if you want to, but for an island completely isolated from the mainland, I would say that a 61% ranking is pretty terrible.
- Alex
References:
(1) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm)
(2) http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=HI&area=Honolulu (http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=HI&area=Honolulu)
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii
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See, here's the cute thing about your posts: you didn't provide any references. All you did was just quote some arbitrary article. Therefore, no one is able to go and validate (or invalidate) the claims provided. Furthermore, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you didn't do any fact checking on the garbage that you listed. For instance, the statistic which states "nation’s gun violence epidemic – which kills more than 30,000" is a misrepresentation of the facts; in reality, over half of those incidents are suicides, which means that the gun was the instrument, not the cause. Japan, by the way, has a suicide rate over DOUBLE ours here in the United States (1), however they have very strict gun control laws; if the guns are the problem, shouldn't Japan's suicide rate be much lower than ours? Anyways, the real number of gun-violence related deaths in 2005, for example, was 11,346. (2) In 2009, the FBI estimated that up to 80% of all crime is gang-related (3) (unfortunately, there is a significant reporting issue when it comes to gang-related violence). While there is no data to support it, I don't feel that saying that 50% of gun homicides are gang related is a very big stretch of the imagination. That would leave us with around 6,000 non-suicide/non-gang related gun deaths each year. Not a good number, but certainly not 30,000. Additionally, the stat about 3,000 Texas CCW permit holders committing crime is also a misrepresentation because they count guys like the Ft. Hood shooter in their statistics (he reportedly held a Virginia concealed carry permit). There are 2 problems with this 1) concealed carry permit holders (military or civilian) cannot carry on military installations...they are just another "Gun Free Zone" (read: Criminal Empowerment Zone), so he was already breaking the law and 2) he's a psychopath. The fact that he was a concealed carry permit holder is completely irrelevant in this discussion, because it IN NO WAY enabled him to commit mass murder. There is no magical force field that got turned off by him holding a CCW permit; he broke the law by bringing the gun on base to begin with...he would have done so even if he did not have a permit. Furthermore, what does child pornography have to do with concealed carry permit holders? Does their CCW permit enable them to be sickos and look at kiddie porn? Would keeping concealed carry out of Hawaii in any way lessen the number of perverts in Hawaii? No. Are all CCW holders perfect "law-abiding citizens?" No. But quoting numbers of crimes committed by CCW permit holders than are not gun-related artificially inflates the numbers; kind of like what I said in the other post about anti-2a people lying and spreading misinformation to further their agenda.
By the way, what you just did is called PLAGIARISM in the academic world and will not only earn you a failing grade, but will probably get you expelled from school. I'm not going to sift through the nether-regions of the internet (read: anti-2a propaganda) to refute your points one-by-one. I already DISproved the point that CCW does not reduce crime in an earlier post; and I just did it with two of "your" new points as an example of how flawed your arguments are; unless you're willing to provide links to legitimate sources (e.g., FBI UCR, the DOJ, etc...) to back your statistics, they really don't hold any weight in my opinion.
- Alex
References:
(1) http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/ (http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/)
(2) http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/ (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/)
(3) http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/february/ngta_020609 (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/february/ngta_020609)
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Well said Alex. Just another example of ignorance, lack of knowledge, and bias.
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DH, I've removed all your posts because they were direct copies from another site without any of your own content. Please refrain from doing that and posting multiple posts back to back. Just stick it all in one.
If anybody is interested in reading the quotes, they can be found on the concealed guns procon website (http://concealedguns.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=003697) under the con side.