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Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease (Read 7526 times)

dirsh

Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« on: August 07, 2013, 08:41:48 PM »
http://now.msn.com/oakwood-apartments-in-colorado-bans-residents-firearms-on-property

Quote
A legal showdown could be looming for the residents of the Oakwood Apartments in Castle Rock, Colo. Tenants have been notified that guns will no longer be allowed on the property, and have been given until Oct. 1 to disarm or face eviction.
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michalebsdad

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 08:44:44 PM »
Man, they might as well just put up a sign in the front, "WELCOME robbers, rapists, and all around bad guys...the people living in this building has no way of protecting themselves from you! Let the games begin!"

I would bet that if everyone moved out and they might be singing a different tune...
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1422LR

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 11:34:03 PM »
This is a comment from another blog.


http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/victim-disarmament-zone-apartment-management-firm-prohibits-residents-from-owning-firearms-and-weapons_08072013
Be informed says:   
Comment ID: 2006533
August 7, 2013 at 1:24 pm   

Make the landlord sign a contract that guarantees everyone’s safety, and that they will be held liable for all financial damages should a criminal break in and take anything or cause medical issues. Gun free zones are death traps for the people unable to defend themselves from the thug that comes in from outside the gun free zone. I wonder what else a gun free zone means? No form of non-lethal devices either.

This is how awful it is becoming, these new fads to make it ONLY APPEAR that you are safe. Since when does a criminal armed with all sorts of improvised weapons have the right to not be stopped from an attack by a honest citizen any means necessary? Fairness is gone, as the evil supports fellow evil by making the maniac have all the advantages.

Anti-gunners, anti-self personal defense, anti-victim, feinsteinless, chucky e. cheese schumer and the many others that attempt to deny the Constitutional and basic human right of justice and decency to protect themselves and their families = The criminal’s very best friends.
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Kingkeoni

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 07:50:29 AM »
Quote from: 1422LR on August 07, 2013, 11:34:03 PM
This is a comment from another blog.


http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/victim-disarmament-zone-apartment-management-firm-prohibits-residents-from-owning-firearms-and-weapons_08072013
Be informed says:   
Comment ID: 2006533
August 7, 2013 at 1:24 pm   

Make the landlord sign a contract that guarantees everyone’s safety, and that they will be held liable for all financial damages should a criminal break in and take anything or cause medical issues.

You honestly can't make the land owner or landlord sign a damn thing.
It's his property. He's not obligated to sign any papers or contracts that you draft up.

I own rental properties and I would laugh in someone's face if they tried to make me sign some paper that said I guarantee their safety.
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Funtimes

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 07:54:21 AM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 07:50:29 AM
You honestly can't make the land owner or landlord sign a damn thing.
It's his property. He's not obligated to sign any papers or contracts that you draft up.

I own rental properties and I would laugh in someone's face if they tried to make me sign some paper that said I guarantee their safety.

If you did something like ban all weapons, devices etc... and then something happened.  I would think that someone could very likely get a jury verdict in civil court  though!  Safety and security is one of those "responsibilities" and if you take measures against it, I would think you need to take measures for it.
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Kingkeoni

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 07:56:30 AM »
Quote from: Funtimes on August 08, 2013, 07:54:21 AM
If you did something like ban all weapons, devices etc... and then something happened.  I would think that someone could very likely get a jury verdict in civil court  though!  Safety and security is one of those "responsibilities" and if you take measures against it, I would think you need to take measures for it.

Did the theaters in Colorado lose lawsuits in civil court?

Did Virginia tech lose lawsuits in civil court?

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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 08:29:42 AM »
Quote from: Funtimes on August 08, 2013, 07:54:21 AM
If you did something like ban all weapons, devices etc... and then something happened.  I would think that someone could very likely get a jury verdict in civil court  though!  Safety and security is one of those "responsibilities" and if you take measures against it, I would think you need to take measures for it.

The tenant moved in under one rule (guns allowed), and the rule was changed.  Until someone actually SIGNS the new lease, the old one is still a contract.  No legal way to evict until the lease expires.  If you're living month-to-month, then that helps the landlord ... 30 day notice is all they need to provide.

So, yes, if something happens after you were told to remove the guns or be evicted, but you are under a lease, there could be grounds to sue.  Once you sign a new contract with the "No guns" clause, you have to abide.
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"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

GZire

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2013, 09:03:44 AM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 07:56:30 AM
Did the theaters in Colorado lose lawsuits in civil court?

Did Virginia tech lose lawsuits in civil court?


Give it some time, I'm sure there are lawsuits underway.  Truth is it's probably cheaper to pay off than to go to litigation.  Do an agreement & payout with a non-disclosure to prevent damages to the businesses rep.  I can see that happening.
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HiCarry

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 04:24:32 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 07:56:30 AM
Did the theaters in Colorado lose lawsuits in civil court?

Did Virginia tech lose lawsuits in civil court?



Virginia Tech did have a judgement against them related to not timely notifying the student body that there was a "situation" ongoing, but not for any issues around not protecting them....
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dirsh

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 05:10:02 PM »
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armsinc

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 08:21:10 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 07:56:30 AM
Did the theaters in Colorado lose lawsuits in civil court?

Did Virginia tech lose lawsuits in civil court?

If I believe right there were settlements and some of the Virginia Tech Victims cases and as far as the theater it still might not gone to court yet.
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ArmsInc Hawaii

Kingkeoni

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 08:21:53 PM »
Quote from: armsinc on August 08, 2013, 08:21:10 PM
If I believe right there were settlements and some of the Virginia Tech Victims cases and as far as the theater it still might not gone to court yet.

Links?

Sources?
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 08:28:38 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
Links?

Sources?

Quote
Legal aftermath

On June 17, 2008, Judge Theodore J. Markow approved an $11 million settlement in a suit against the state of Virginia by 24 of the 32 victims' families. Of the other eight victims, two families chose not to file claims, while two remain unresolved. The settlement also covered 18 people who were injured; their lifelong health care needs included in the settlement.[75][139]

The Department of Education fined the University $55,000 on March 29, 2011, for waiting too long to notify students of the initial shootings. The fine was the highest amount that the Department of Education could levy for the two violations of the Clery Act resulting from the failure to notify students in a timely manner of the shootings in West Ambler Johnston.[140] In announcing the fine against the University, the director of a department panel which reviewed the case was quoted as saying "While Virginia Tech's violations warrant a fine far in excess of what is currently permissible under the statute, the department's fine authority is limited." As of March 30, 2011, the University had announced its intention to appeal the decision.[141]

On March 14, 2012, a jury found that Virginia Tech was guilty of negligence for delaying a campus warning.[142] The parents of two students who were killed filed a wrongful death civil lawsuit that argued that lives could have been spared if school officials had moved more quickly to alert the campus after the first two victims were shot in a dorm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre[/url]
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"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Kingkeoni

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 08:47:06 PM »
So it looks like their lawsuits stemmed from the fact that the school intentionally delayed a warning that they should have given and were therefore negligent?
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Funtimes

Re: Apartment owners tell tenants lose the guns or lose the lease
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 08:59:09 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 08, 2013, 07:56:30 AM
Did the theaters in Colorado lose lawsuits in civil court?

Did Virginia tech lose lawsuits in civil court?

Potentially ongoing CO: http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/possible-lawsuit-over-aurora-movie-shootings-targets-owner/

You have a responsibility to provide a certain, unknown level of security in your establishment - especially when it is held out to the public like this.   Failing to due so, would likely be considered reckless or negligent. 

Question would go like this:
Do other theaters have security? Yes.
Do other malls have security? Yes.
Then why do you not have security? "I... uh... I ... Uh..." 

*JUDGEMENT IN FAVOR OF PLAINTIFF* /smack.   And this is because a reasonable owner would have known that the potential for violence or threat of violence is rather significant, and that you should have had some sort of security there to handle the situation.


Here are some other examples:

 Man sues Dillards after he gets beat with baseball bat: http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/man-beaten-bat-outside-green-hills-dillards-sues-retailer

Security Guard sues hospital for negligence and failing to provide enough security: http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4122617-74/shick-upmc-guard?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tribunereviewnews+%28News%29#axzz2bS4iqvCF

An old one:
The parents of a girl slain in a 7-11 type store sued the store for faking security:  http://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/23/us/relatives-of-slain-girl-suing-saying-store-faked-security.html



Don't forget what the real question should be, regardless if these suits win or not is: Can you afford to defend the allegations? 
Think of the costs for a company that may be required for a such a company or entity to fight the battle, such as social media capital, monetary capital, political capital (all kinds of things it could cost you!). 

Some people are like "Oh, well I will sue them back!" But, in reality, that doesn't work. They may not have money to take, assets to seize, or anything else of value worth taking. But, you, as the business owner - well - you have lots to take and more to lose.

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Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.
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