real self defense situations (Read 11180 times)

ghost_medic

real self defense situations
« on: February 17, 2012, 07:21:27 AM »
i attend a local college night classes
last night i was approached i the parking lot by a older white male late 40's "meth looking" on a bicycle
he pulled up and asked" is today your birhtday"
i had noticed him approaching so he did not catch me off guard but his words did
i stopped at the fornt left of his bike and said "what was that"
and he asked about my birthday again
warning signs
1 meth dude
2 cruising parking lot at dusk
3 i am not a small or inviting looking person to strike up a random conversation with

my plan was to dump him off his bike and work from there
i told him it was not my birthday and he rode towards  couple prolly both 17 -18 and really small
i stopped by the security office and let them know about the dude   he was now was in sight of the security office stopping another  couple
positives
he did not catch me off guard
i identifed threat and had plan of action

negative
i could have gotten a better description   
i was not planning on reporting the incident untill i saw him approach  others

any other hawaii related incidents / averted incidents and learning points out there

808shooter

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 07:35:54 AM »
i'd say you did good.  As far as description, "guy on a bicycle" is sufficient, 99% he's not gonna ditch the bike.  Just be aware of your surroundings especially when you approach your car. 

Kingkeoni

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 07:38:49 AM »
He wanted to give you a birthday back massage and you blew it with your paranoia.  :geekdanc:
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Tom_G

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 09:05:32 AM »
"Is today your birthday" is a contact phrase.  He was looking to buy or to sell.  I hear, with some regularity, discussions about birthdays outside of 7-11 convenience stores, usually in the context of a disheveled person who is loitering approaching other store patrons as they enter/exit.

Semi-related:  While walking into a 7-11 recently, 2 homeless-looking guys were talking.  One said "It's my birthday."  The other said "I don't have anything to give you."  The first replied "The only thing I want for my birthday is a handshake."  When I came out, the first man approached me and said "Hey, man, it's my birthday, give me a dollar."  I replied "I heard that the only thing you wanted for your birthday was a handshake."  He started to protest, then laughed and offered his hand.  We shook, he moved on.  I found that episode rather amusing.

It was that episode, though, that made me realize just how often I was hearing the word "birthday" from disheveled-looking folks.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Lifer

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 11:03:43 AM »
A few weeks ago a girl knocked on our door and claimed to be advertising their new company. They were offering free floor cleaning or furniture moving. Without my knowledge my wife agreed to allow her to come back later and clean a spot in the carpet. Needless to say I was livid for my wife inviting her back and giving our phone number. 
I was very suspicious, so when the door bell rang about a half hour later I answered with a concealed pistol. When I opened the door there was the girl and 2 guys, with another guy across the street in a running SUV. Let's just say 2 of the 3 men were sketchy looking. Both guys at the door had boxes and duffle bags, so I was really on edge. I was cordial and told them their services weren't needed, thanked them for their time, but no one comes into my house and my wife should have never agreed to the deal. They were ok, and left with no issues.

Maybe a legit cleaning company, maybe a home invasion, maybe casing for a later robbery, who knows.... Makes me wonder what would have happened if I wasn't home, what if they were let into the house and what was in those duffle bags

That night I was glad I have guns in the home. The wife & daughter got a valuable lesson, trust no one (especially someone  at the door) and guns are good!

BananaClip

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 11:56:56 AM »
"is today your birthday?"

I would have opened my eyes really wide and said   "WOW! Yeah, it is!..How'd you know?!"

Of course I'd be ready to get physical with a closed fist....

Talk about throw his plans off a little... ;)

I work in Waikiki and town a lot and there's always potential for issues... Gotta put on the game face... :grrr:

I think, not being too paranoid but just remembering how crazy and stupid this world is getting is a good start to protecting yourself and your loved ones...

Oh yeah, and "CARDIO,CARDIO,CARDIO" :thumbsup:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"- Genesis1:1 KJV

"The Truth Shall Set You Free"

"Once Blind But Now i See"

bass monkey

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 12:28:29 PM »
I was at mitsuken yesterday standing at the curb waiting for my food.  I notice homeless guy walking up. I pivot towards him. Asks for brorrow dollah. Told him I don't have. Then he procedes to ask the others waiting for their food if they have change. Couple in front of me wasn't paying attention. Homeless guy ends up tapping girl on shoulder and surprising her then asks for a dollar.
Just kind of surprised at the amount of people that don't pay attention to the things around them.

Kingkeoni

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 01:28:21 PM »
A few weeks ago a girl knocked on our door and claimed to be advertising their new company. They were offering free floor cleaning or furniture moving. Without my knowledge my wife agreed to allow her to come back later and clean a spot in the carpet. Needless to say I was livid for my wife inviting her back and giving our phone number. 
I was very suspicious, so when the door bell rang about a half hour later I answered with a concealed pistol. When I opened the door there was the girl and 2 guys, with another guy across the street in a running SUV. Let's just say 2 of the 3 men were sketchy looking. Both guys at the door had boxes and duffle bags, so I was really on edge. I was cordial and told them their services weren't needed, thanked them for their time, but no one comes into my house and my wife should have never agreed to the deal. They were ok, and left with no issues.

Maybe a legit cleaning company, maybe a home invasion, maybe casing for a later robbery, who knows.... Makes me wonder what would have happened if I wasn't home, what if they were let into the house and what was in those duffle bags

That night I was glad I have guns in the home. The wife & daughter got a valuable lesson, trust no one (especially someone  at the door) and guns are good!


That's just the Kirby vacuum cleaner sales person M.O.

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

robtmc

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 01:35:20 PM »

i stopped at the fornt left of his bike and said "what was that"
and he asked about my birthday again

I got to that point and started wondering if he was a decoy to get your attention distracted.......

230RN

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Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 11:27:09 AM »
Did you look around for confederates?  Move sideways, glance in the direction you just moved from.  Tells them you ain't to be effed with.

On the "approach" phase, a direct look at them with a "No" shake of your head is effective.

As I already mentioned on this forum, store windows and car glass are your friends.

Lots of experience with this crap in lower downtown (LoDo) Denver. Some pretty negative. I seem to have the "soft touch" look about me.
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Lifer

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 09:47:52 PM »

That's just the Kirby vacuum cleaner sales person M.O.

Yeah, you're right.....I spoke with the neighbors and they have been solicited like this before.

I' m new to the area, so I wasn't use to the Kirby tactics. The Kirby guys on the mainland tried to sell you on the spot and not return with backup. :wacko:

I had some family members go through a home invasion years ago, and went through a couple home burglaries as a kid, so that's always in the back of my head.

Cougar8045

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 10:44:29 PM »
Did you look around for confederates?  Move sideways, glance in the direction you just moved from.  Tells them you ain't to be effed with.

On the "approach" phase, a direct look at them with a "No" shake of your head is effective.

As I already mentioned on this forum, store windows and car glass are your friends.

Lots of experience with this crap in lower downtown (LoDo) Denver. Some pretty negative. I seem to have the "soft touch" look about me.
I love plate glass store windows, although I also openly check my six (as a submariner, I like to think of it as clearing baffles).  Probably makes me look a little crazy, but I figure looking like you might have a couple of screws loose is probably a good thing if some young tough is sizing me up.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

sirkaiks

real self defense situations
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 09:10:01 AM »
I was at mitsuken yesterday standing at the curb waiting for my food.  I notice homeless guy walking up. I pivot towards him. Asks for brorrow dollah. Told him I don't have. Then he procedes to ask the others waiting for their food if they have change. Couple in front of me wasn't paying attention. Homeless guy ends up tapping girl on shoulder and surprising her then asks for a dollar.
Just kind of surprised at the amount of people that don't pay attention to the things around them.
when i see beggars walking towards me i try to beat um to the punch, i ask them for a dollar. try it, they don't know what to say!

ren

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 09:34:17 AM »
A few weeks ago a girl knocked on our door and claimed to be advertising their new company. They were offering free floor cleaning or furniture moving. Without my knowledge my wife agreed to allow her to come back later and clean a spot in the carpet. Needless to say I was livid for my wife inviting her back and giving our phone number. 
I was very suspicious, so when the door bell rang about a half hour later I answered with a concealed pistol. When I opened the door there was the girl and 2 guys, with another guy across the street in a running SUV. Let's just say 2 of the 3 men were sketchy looking. Both guys at the door had boxes and duffle bags, so I was really on edge. I was cordial and told them their services weren't needed, thanked them for their time, but no one comes into my house and my wife should have never agreed to the deal. They were ok, and left with no issues.

Maybe a legit cleaning company, maybe a home invasion, maybe casing for a later robbery, who knows.... Makes me wonder what would have happened if I wasn't home, what if they were let into the house and what was in those duffle bags

That night I was glad I have guns in the home. The wife & daughter got a valuable lesson, trust no one (especially someone  at the door) and guns are good!

I had a similar "cleaning service" come into our gated tonwhomes.  They only had ONE flyer so they couldn't give it to me. No biz card, ONE flyer....very suspicious.
Deeds Not Words

spanner1751

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 02:27:22 PM »
I don't know what you guys think about ar15.com, but there was a good thread there just over a week ago talking about situational awareness, criminal mindset, and concealed carry.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html

Ichigeki Hissatsu

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 03:17:56 PM »
i bet he had some kind of coupon or some shit that would only benefit someone if it was their birthday.  Was probably gonna try and sell it to you rofl.

GPAGAP

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 07:18:00 PM »
He wanted to give you a birthday back massage and you blew it with your paranoia.  :geekdanc:

LOL, nice

GPAGAP

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 07:51:05 PM »
Did you look around for confederates?  Move sideways, glance in the direction you just moved from.  Tells them you ain't to be effed with.

On the "approach" phase, a direct look at them with a "No" shake of your head is effective.

Bingo!

Criminals will usually attempt to approach you with a ruse, or opening phrase.
The classic approach is- Criminal A approaches with the ruse, while criminal B catches you off guard from behind while you're distracted/engaged in dialogue with Criminal A.

The best response on Good Guy's part is to make body language clear you are not interested with one or two palms up in the international "no", while circling to 3 or 9 o'clock in order to see the shift the area that was behind you, into your peripheral. Use of peripheral vision is important, because if you turn your head to glance over your shoulder, it opens a window of opportunity for Criminal A to false crack you, if he has moved into range.

Getting further in depth into ruses, the following are common-
"Hey man, you dropped your money"
"Hey man, is this yours..."
"Do you have the time"
"Do you have a light"
"Can I have some money for..."
"I need some help for..."
"How do I find..."

Another area of study is "pre-assault cues". Pre-assault cues would be the movement, gesture or "tell" an aggressor would show before they actually attack.
Watch some YouTube videos of assaults and you'll commonly see movements like-
Weight shift  (In order to move weight before a strike)
Glances to side or over shoulder (nervous or actually looking for witnesses)
Grooming cues like touching the face, chin, ear, or hair

All of the above would fall into Management of Unknown Contacts, or how we deal with strangers who approach us.

I learned most of the above info at a Management of Unknown Contacts module during a course on the mainland with an instructor named SouthNarc. He has a few DVDs, but his Management of Unknown Contacts video has a lot invaluable information on criminal ruses, and ways to avoid engaging in dialogue.



GPAGAP

Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2012, 08:18:11 PM »
i had noticed him approaching so he did not catch me off guard but his words did

i stopped at the fornt left of his bike and said "what was that"

Just say, "No thanks bu", firmly, but no need to be a dick about it.
By not engaging in dialogue, you show him your not interested, but you also leave your brain free to process visual information as you scan.


warning signs
1 meth dude
2 cruising parking lot at dusk
3 i am not a small or inviting looking person to strike up a random conversation with

Kudos to you for recognizing these clues.
Did he have a backpack? Meth dude on bike + backpack = usually breaking into cars


my plan was to dump him off his bike and work from there
i told him it was not my birthday and he rode towards  couple prolly both 17 -18 and really small
i stopped by the security office and let them know about the dude   he was now was in sight of the security office stopping another  couple
positives
he did not catch me off guard
i identifed threat and had plan of action

I like your mindset, and the positives you pointed out are truly positives. While most of the males on this board would be willing to throw down, or pull their pocket folder if things escalated, the smart first option is to break contact and run. Not the most macho, I know....
But take into account multiple adversaries, blood bourne pathogens (HIV, Hepatitis, staph) that this dude may have, and you realize you don't even want to touch him or deal with his friend too.

230RN

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Re: real self defense situations
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 11:48:47 AM »
Excellent, GPAGAP!

One thing I did notice on my first couple of encounters downtown  was that I was "tunneling" my concentration on the approacher.  That's when I started looking into situational awareness stuff on the net and started to train myself to widen my perceptions instead of narrowing them.

Thanks for your input.
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.