If i can, will i need those silly fin wraps and muzzle brakes like the rifle versions?

What gives?

AR pistols are not legal in Hawaii, they are considered "assault pistols" according to Hawaii's definition. There are 5 characteristics that would define it as one and AR pistols meet all requirements by their definition.

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If i can, will i need those silly fin wraps and muzzle brakes like the rifle versions?

What gives?

What wraps and muzzle brakes?  I'm not aware of any requirements on AR-15 rifles.

Just follow the law for an AR pistol so it doesn't qualify as an "assault pistol."

Lots of threads on here outlining in detail what process to follow.

§134-1  Definitions.

"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol that accepts a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following characteristics:

     (1)  An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

     (2)  A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;

     (3)  A shroud that is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;

     (4)  A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;

     (5)  A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or

     (6)  It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length, an antique pistol as defined in this section, or a curio or relic as those terms are used in 18 United States Code section 921(a)(13) or 27 Code of Federal Regulations section 478.11.

If you disable the semiauto action and/or make the mag so it can't be detached, then nothing else in the definition applies.  The wording requires it to be a "semiautomatic pistol that accepts a detachable magazine AND" .  Eliminate at least one of the first 2 characteristics of an assault pistol, and it's no longer able to be classified an assault pistol no matter what else it has installed.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0001.htm

It's a class C felony to purchase or obtain an 80% in Hawaii. So is it a felony to posses one?

It's a class C felony to purchase or obtain an 80% in Hawaii. So is it a felony to posses one?

Existing 80% are legal as long as they are registered and have a serial number, just like a normal AR lower.

According to the bill 1733:

Definitions:  "Ghost gun" means a firearm that is assembled without a serial number or other identification marking."

You can order 80% blanks with serial numbers already inscribed on them.  By definition, that blank would not be illegal to acquire.

In fact, I don't see the term 80% in any form in the bill.  It only talks about ghost guns and receivers without serial numbers.

The difficult part is getting someone to agree to ship the lower to Hawaii even with the serial number on it.  Our laws have a tendency to be ambiguous and contradictory which causes some companies to be afraid of maybe making a mistake.

**NOT A LAWYER**

If I'm wrong, hopefully someone here can straighten me out.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB1733_.HTM

80percentarms sells 80% with serial numbers. Is that a legal way to build ar?

Existing 80% are legal as long as they are registered and have a serial number, just like a normal AR lower.

According to the bill 1733:

Definitions:  "Ghost gun" means a firearm that is assembled without a serial number or other identification marking."

You can order 80% blanks with serial numbers already inscribed on them.  By definition, that blank would not be illegal to acquire.

In fact, I don't see the term 80% in any form in the bill.  It only talks about ghost guns and receivers without serial numbers.

The difficult part is getting someone to agree to ship the lower to Hawaii even with the serial number on it.  Our laws have a tendency to be ambiguous and contradictory which causes some companies to be afraid of maybe making a mistake.

**NOT A LAWYER**

If I'm wrong, hopefully someone here can straighten me out.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB1733_.HTM

Existing 80% are legal as long as they are registered and have a serial number, just like a normal AR lower.

According to the bill 1733:

Definitions:  "Ghost gun" means a firearm that is assembled without a serial number or other identification marking."

You can order 80% blanks with serial numbers already inscribed on them.  By definition, that blank would not be illegal to acquire.

In fact, I don't see the term 80% in any form in the bill.  It only talks about ghost guns and receivers without serial numbers.

The difficult part is getting someone to agree to ship the lower to Hawaii even with the serial number on it.  Our laws have a tendency to be ambiguous and contradictory which causes some companies to be afraid of maybe making a mistake.

**NOT A LAWYER**

If I'm wrong, hopefully someone here can straighten me out.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB1733_.HTM

If you’re going to order an 80% with a serial number and register it within 5 days of receipt, why not just get a finished stripped lower ?

Still doesn’t answer dogman’s question though.
Topic on this already:  https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=37983.60

80percentarms sells 80% with serial numbers. Is that a legal way to build ar?

In my non-legal-expert opinion, if the 80% lower has a serial number on it, it's not a "ghost gun" part -- which is the purpose of the bill as I read it.

Since the 80% lower is not a "real" lower (not a legal firearm), then I personally would not go register it upon receipt.  I would wait until I have the thing completed before registering, since it doesn't fall under the definition of a ghost gun nor firearm.

Once it is 81% complete or more, it becomes a lower receiver.  You have 5 days to register at that point (90 day reservation BS notwithstanding).

If you complete the build, it has a serial number that can be traced back to the manufacturer and buyer, so it's clear of any ghost gun law.

That's how I see it.  If anyone else can get something different from reading the law/bill, please correct me.

 

If you’re going to order an 80% with a serial number and register it within 5 days of receipt, why not just get a finished stripped lower ?

Still doesn’t answer dogman’s question though.
Topic on this already:  https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=37983.60

I answered his question.

80% lowers are NOT illegal if they have a serial number.  An 80% lower without a serial number is a "ghost gun part" and illegal.

The penalties are in the bill I linked.

Purchasing or having one shipped in is the same process of a regular firearm. Must go through an FFL and the permit process

If you go to the mainland and buy one there, it's 100% legal to do, but the law says you have to serialize it and register it when it comes to Hawaii. Same as Out of State bring in. But seeing how it may be months before you can register, you can still build it and use it. Even though HPD (which doesn't make law) says you should leave it at home until registered. But they are trying to scare you. Out of state peeps can use their unregistered guns all day long if here less than "5 days" which has been waived by executive order.

Do whatever you want, because nobody here does anything illegal....

If you’re going to order an 80% with a serial number and register it within 5 days of receipt, why not just get a finished stripped lower ?

Still doesn’t answer dogman’s question though.
Topic on this already:  https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=37983.60

Wasn't there another thread that said HPD would not register an 80% even with a serial until the holes, channels and slide areas were completed?

Wasn't there another thread that said HPD would not register an 80% even with a serial until the holes, channels and slide areas were completed?

HPD probably won't know what they'll do until faced with the situation....and then, may not be consistent. 

Anyone who tries to register any 80% lower at any degree of completion should get a signed letter on the spot from HPD if they refuse to register it.  Otherwise, that "illegal" non-firearm lower could be used against you, and no evidence of trying to register puts you in a bind.

However, this goes along with what I said.  You don't have to register an 80% blank that (1) has a serial and (2) has not been milled.  It's not a firearm.

If anyone can quote the part of the bill that contradicts that, I'd be interested in seeing what I missed.

 

Purchasing or having one shipped in is the same process of a regular firearm. Must go through an FFL and the permit process

If you go to the mainland and buy one there, it's 100% legal to do, but the law says you have to serialize it and register it when it comes to Hawaii. Same as Out of State bring in. But seeing how it may be months before you can register, you can still build it and use it. Even though HPD (which doesn't make law) says you should leave it at home until registered. But they are trying to scare you. Out of state peeps can use their unregistered guns all day long if here less than "5 days" which has been waived by executive order.

Do whatever you want, because nobody here does anything illegal....

Can you show where the 80% lower is defined in the law and is required to be treated like a normal AR lower, including permit to acquire and registration within 5 days?  I've not been able to find any of that.

Can you show where the 80% lower is defined in the law and is required to be treated like a normal AR lower, including permit to acquire and registration within 5 days?  I've not been able to find any of that.

New definition in 134-1 Section 4 defines "unfinished firearms" aka 80% as firearms. But lord knows this can be a piece of pipe...

HB2744 SD2
PART II

     SECTION 2.  The legislature finds that a "ghost gun" is a firearm that is assembled without serial numbers or other identification markings.  A person may assemble a ghost gun from a prepackaged kit requiring only minimal expertise and, thus, bypass background checks, registration, and other legal requirements.  The legislature also finds that the State's lack of laws addressing ghost guns allows persons who would normally be prohibited under state law from owning or possessing firearms to do so.  The ease with which ghost guns may be obtained defeats the intent of the State's otherwise strict firearm permitting and registration laws.  It is these laws that have helped Hawaii to achieve the lowest gun violence death rate in the nation.

     Accordingly, the purpose of this part is to:

     (1)  Prohibit the manufacture, purchase, or obtaining of firearm parts for the purpose of assembling a firearm having no serial number; and

     (2)  Amend certain requirements relating to firearms registration.

     SECTION 3.  Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

     "§134-    Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:

     (1)  A firearm receiver that is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer;

     (2)  A firearm receiver that has not been provided a serial number that may be registered in accordance with section 134-3(c); or

     (3)  Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled.

     (b)  Violation of this section is a class C felony."

     SECTION 4.  Section 134-1, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding two new definitions to be appropriately inserted and to read as follows:

     ""Assembly" means the fabrication of a firearm or the fitting together of component parts to construct a firearm.

     "Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.  "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

     SECTION 5.  Section 134-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by amending subsections (a) through (d) to read as follows:

     "(a)  Every resident or other person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within five days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn.  A nonresident alien may bring firearms not otherwise prohibited by law into the State for a continuous period not to exceed ninety days; provided that the person meets the registration requirement of this section and the person possesses:

     (1)  A valid Hawaii hunting license procured under chapter 183D, part II, or a commercial or private shooting preserve permit issued pursuant to section 183D-34;

     (2)  A written document indicating the person has been invited to the State to shoot on private land; or

     (3)  Written notification from a firing range or target shooting business indicating that the person will actually engage in target shooting.

The nonresident alien shall be limited to a nontransferable registration of not more than ten firearms for the purpose of the above activities.

     Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.  The police department shall perform an inquiry on the person by using the International Justice and Public Safety Network, including the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement query, the National Crime Information Center, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.  Any person attempting to register a firearm, a firearm receiver, or the parts used to assemble a firearm, and who is found to be disqualified from ownership, possession, or control of firearms or ammunition under section 134-7, shall surrender or dispose of all firearms and ammunition pursuant to section 134-7.3.

    (b)  Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition. The registration of all firearms shall be on forms prescribed by the attorney general, which shall be uniform throughout the State, and shall include the following information:  name of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; serial number; and source from which receipt was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant.  If the firearm has been assembled from separate parts and an unfinished firearm receiver, the entity that registered the firearm receiver shall be recorded in the space provided for the name of the manufacturer and importer, and the phrase "assembled from parts" shall be recorded in the space provided for model.  If the firearm has been assembled from parts created using a three-dimensional printer, the entity that registered the firearm receiver shall be recorded in the space provided for the name of the manufacturer and importer, and the phrase "3-D printer" shall be recorded in the space provided for model.  If the firearm has no serial number, the [permit] registration number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the [permit] registration number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm before registration.  On firearms assembled from parts created using a three-dimensional printer, the serial number shall be engraved on stainless steel and permanently embedded to the firearm receiver during fabrication or construction.  All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required:

     (1)  For processing the registration;

     (2)  For database management by the Hawaii criminal justice data center;

     (3)  By a law enforcement agency for the lawful performance of its duties; or

     (4)  By order of a court.

     (c)  Dealers licensed under section 134-31 or dealers licensed by the United States Department of Justice shall register firearms pursuant to this section on registration forms prescribed by the attorney general and shall not be required to have the firearms physically inspected by the chief of police at the time of registration.  An authorized dealer, as provided in section 134-31, or a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, who brings, assembles, or causes to be brought into the State by any other means, separate parts and an unfinished firearm receiver that when assembled create a firearm, or parts created by a three-dimensional printer that when assembled create a firearm, shall register the unfinished firearm receiver and receive a serial number before the assembly of the firearm or the sale or transfer of unassembled firearm parts or a receiver to a third party in accordance with subsection (b).  Any sale or transfer of unfinished firearm receivers by an authorized dealer to a third party shall be conducted as if they were fully assembled firearms with a serial number engraved on the firearm receiver and in accordance with the firearms permitting process in section 134-2.  All other firearms and firearm receivers registered under this section shall be physically inspected by the respective county chief of police or the chief's representative at the time of registration.

     (d)  Registration shall not be required for:

     (1)  Any device that is designed to fire loose black powder or that is a firearm manufactured before 1899;

     (2)  Any device not designed to fire or made incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition; or

     (3)  All unserviceable firearms and destructive devices registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, [and] Firearms, and Explosives of the United States Department of Justice pursuant to Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations."

New definition in 134-1 Section 4 defines "unfinished firearms" aka 80% as firearms. But lord knows this can be a piece of pipe...

HB2744 SD2
PART II

[snippy]

     (b)  Violation of this section is a class C felony."

     SECTION 4.  Section 134-1, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding two new definitions to be appropriately inserted and to read as follows:

[snippy dippy]

     "Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.  "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

[snippety-doo-dah]

Okay.  Got it.  "A firearm receiver is whatever the hell we SAY it is!"  Thus, registration is required.  I hate this state sometimes.

Okay.  Got it.  "A firearm receiver is whatever the hell we SAY it is!"  Thus, registration is required.  I hate this state sometimes.

Yup...

I'm tempted to call 911 at Home Depot and say they are selling firearms. Because legally they are. If you go into HD with the INTENT to purchase pipe or sheet metal to make a firearm, that's what it is. We all know how intent works. Against us, but not for Killary, who didn't INTEND to break the law she agreed to follow as SoS. But thankfully she wiped it clean.

The Bill - https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_.HTM

And they still haven't defined readily...

"Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

The Bill - https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/HB2744_SD2_.HTM

And they still haven't defined readily...

"Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

They didn't define "readily", but they did tack on "milling or other means".  "Other" is a legalistic catch phrase -- meaning it catches you no matter what else was specifically stated in the law.  Might as well use "non-milling means" for all the good "other" offers.  So, if you aren't using milling tools, a 3D printer would be "other means".  Or smelting.  Or replicator. 

One of my pet peeves in Hawaii's laws is the intentional ambiguity.  They create a trap that, once caught in it, has such a broad and deep enclosure, it's almost impossible to escape based on strict interpretation of the law as written.  The same Liberals who write these open-ended, ambiguous laws are the first to try and tell us what weapons the Second Amendment applies to.