HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals (Read 6149 times)

96707

Re: HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2022, 06:31:47 AM »
The AGs already have the plan in place. They will model as much as they after Hawaii's LEOSA process for retired LEO's. Application, training, physicals, and expert marksman qualification. The deadlines for the applicant are tight.

I was one of the people that did verification and processing for Feds trying to process in Hawaii. The AG's office would send verification letters out after hours on a Friday to start the clock running. Agencies had 10 days to verify retirement status, which often had to be run though our DC office. Often times these deadlines were not met and the LEOSA process was stopped.
The next hurdle was the shooting qual, which was a significantly higher standard than any local LEO standard.

Granted, LEOSA was created by Congress so there may be some differences in its application vs Sct ruling, but rest assurred Hawaii did everything in its power to prevent retirement LEOSA including discontinuing giving local officers "Returement Credentials" which immediatelt made every retired state and local officer in Hawaii immediately ineligible to apply or LEOSA. When Hawaii couldnt thwart LEOSA for the active LEOs theybwent out and found some mainland cops whobwere on "vacation" and carrying and had them arrested and prosecuted as an example. Since there is no CCW in Hawaii, the billionaires in the islands have been using active LEOs whonare covered under LEOSA to serve as their armed security. The state does not like this and neither didnthe retired LEOs from Hawaii who couldnt get these returement gigs.

Rest assured lots of goofy ideas are being thought of by the AG and legislators to make sure its a tough process. When I was doing the LEOSA processing we estimated there were less than 7 people from the feds who made it through the initial process. Ohh yah, I believe they had to go through this on a yearly basis.

mrgaf

Re: HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2022, 08:33:25 AM »
I'm pretty sure I've brought this up before.  Honolulu ha no idea how many people have guns here in Hawaii.
Where they are at and how they are used.

Cops know.  Ever wonder why on the BI if there is a traffic stop, Cop stays in his car, orders you to stay in your car,  till he has back up?
There is some variation of the timing of things.  And is dependent on  the cops "rookie" status.
Wild west here.
 :thumbsup:

Oh so that’s why…. I thought they were shoving their donut down their throat before getting out! :geekdanc:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

zippz

Re: HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2022, 09:24:51 AM »
We can make a good case why LE standards shouldn't apply to CCW holders.

The focus of the LE firearms qualification to take out the threat to save lives in the community and LEOs don't have the option of retreating and leaving it to others to take care of (yea yea I know).  If a threat takes out the LE, then there is no one to save the community (yea yea I know).  LEOs have to get quick accurate shots off at different distances, including farther distances, and this is reflected on their test which is timed and normally goes from 3 yards to 25 yards.  LEs secondary focus is make the standards easy enough so they don't have to fail cadets and waste the money poured into them.  LEOSA is grouped in this LE category because the Feds intent was to put more officers on the street to take out threats in the community.

Civilian CCW has a different focus and mindset to lawmakers, ensure the CCW holder is trained enough not to shoot innocent people when shooting at a threat.  This is reflected in the firearms qualifications where there is either no time limit or very relaxed time and scoring standards.  Failing due to missed shots on the silhouette would be a valid testing standard.  This would reflect the focus on not hitting innocents with errant shots.  Testing to determine if a CCW holder can defend themselves is irrelevant in this context and differs from the LE intent.  Testing at farther distances (25 yards) is not needed as civilians have the option to flee whereas LEOs are required to take out that threat.  In addition, seniors and the disabled may not be able to pass LE standards.  Accommodations would need to be made for them as they have a equal right to self-defense.  The LE recruitment process excludes unfit people so there is no need to accommodate them in LE firearms qualifications. 

You notice this difference when comparing testing standards...FBI, HPD, Marshalls, etc vs NRA CCW, and other states testing requirements.

Mandatory training and testing shouldn't be required.  I'm not sure if minimal training requirements can be overturned through the text history tradition standard, I'm thinking realistically not.  But the most lawmakers should be asking for is a civilian CCW course like NRA CCW or USCCA, and ability to skip the CCW class by taking a CCW live fire test with standards like NRA CCW along with the current NRA Basic Pistol/Hunters Ed course.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2022, 11:31:22 AM »
Given the abysmal rate of hits over misses in the law enforcement profession, I'd prefer the CCW standards be set at a reasonable level!

NYPD Officers Fire 84 Shots At Suspect,
Miss 83 Times

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nypd-84-shots-brooklyn_n_55ec4b31e4b093be51bbb978

Remember, this happened in NY, where people couldn't carry legally, and where police are TRAINED to use guns in crowded NYC streets.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: HPD/ Sheriffs pistol quals
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2022, 12:12:09 PM »
Given the abysmal rate of hits over misses in the law enforcement profession, I'd prefer the CCW standards be set at a reasonable level!

NYPD Officers Fire 84 Shots At Suspect,
Miss 83 Times

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nypd-84-shots-brooklyn_n_55ec4b31e4b093be51bbb978

Remember, this happened in NY, where people couldn't carry legally, and where police are TRAINED to use guns in crowded NYC streets.

Need the BJ Baldwin training. He got 10 for 10.