How do you guys work on loads? (Read 8845 times)

mr. me 808

How do you guys work on loads?
« on: June 14, 2013, 02:57:20 PM »
I'm new to reloading and had a question on experimenting with different loads.  It seems that there are so many variables to reloading and finding that particular load that works best in your gun.  What methods do you guys use to work your loads?  I just started reloading and have only been experimenting with powder weights and bullet weights.  When do you guys start looking at different OAL's, primers, powders, etc.. 

clshade

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 03:35:52 PM »
I tend to pick something that isn't going to change and build the rest of the load around that.

For example, I tend to shoot cast bullets and I have only a limited number of molds. That is the first limiting factor. I have a 240gr LSWC for the 44 mag and that's it.

Then I look at powders, that being the next limiting factor: I can't get anything I want so I have to chose from what is available. I browse through every reloading data source I can get my paws on to get a sense of what powders are likely to be the most efficient at the velocity I'm looking for. Sounds like a laborious process but I really only have a few powders on hand and there is ~nothing~ at the stores right now to expand that.

So now I have a bullet and a range of loads.

If I'm going for a particular velocity (for a hunting round, for example) then I start about there in the range from min to max loads and increase the load by .5 grains (less if its a small pistol load) until I get near max at exactly the OAL listed on the load. I make 5 or 10 of each, put them in their own plastic bags with clear labeling and head to the range. I then take the load that worked best and load around it both ways in .1 grain intervals. I only mess with OAL and crimp if there are problems with them.

Rule of thumb if you are looking for max loads (which are rarely also the most accurate) is to start 10% under the max listed load and work up fairly slowly. .1 - .5 grain intervals depending. If you're looking for the most accurate load no matter the velocity start at the bottom and work up.  I also use factory loads to reset my palate for the amount of force I should be expecting out of a round. Just to keep a sense of perspective.

That's the general gist of it for me. If one has more access to powder and more bullet choices it would essentially be the same process (for me) once I decide on a bullet that I want to use.

I'm no expert, though. There are others with FAR more experience than I.

RKBA

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 04:23:42 PM »
I do what clshade does, except when I do find the powder load that works best for me, I do one test further and adjust overall length.

I'm no expert but my advice is to research what components are popular and reputable for the cartridge you're loading. Then buy a bunch of the same components. Same powder, bullets, primers, and if possible, cases.
That way you can focus on powder load and overall length. Anytime you change powders or bullets, you have to work up a new load all over again. I personally find working up loads to be fun, but super time consuming. I can't imagine myself doing over and over for the same cartridge or firearm. So I try to stick with the same components if possible. I know that can be hard to do right now with the lack of availability, but once things slow down and you work up a good load that you like, stock up on those components. 

Inspector

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 05:03:57 PM »
I think clshade and I are very similar in our routines.

It takes a lot of work and experimentation. And record keeping. Keep good records so you can compare apples to apples. Once you find a combination that works well in your gun then only change one component at a time so you can compare how the component changes how your gun reacts to the new component.

You can also try and Google handloading for your gun and see if you can find out what others are using and happy with. It does not mean if you copy their load your gun will shoot like theirs. It should only be used as a general idea where to get started. For instance, I could not find anyone who was reloading for my particular model of bolt action .223. But there is a ton of info out there from people reloading for their .223's with similar rifle twist and barrel length. When I studied their data I started seeing commonalities. For instance, I started seeing most of them were using one or two powders (designed for the cartridge I was loading for), bullet (type/weight), primer and case combination. So I stayed with one powder/primer/case combo and tried different bullet types and weights at different powder charges such as clshade does. I found generally speaking that while I was able to get close to 1 MOA at 100yds with Hornady bullets in the 60gr - 70gr range I had a huge breakthrough when I tried Sierra bullets in the 60gr - 69gr range. I got much tighter groups with Sierra Bullets. Then I tried Nosler Bullets in the same range and got similar results to the Sierra Bullets. But then I found another huge breakthrough when I tried Berger Bullets. Now that I have a baseline of bullets/powder/primers/cases I can now try different powders so I can compare to my baseline. Same for primers and OAL. But changing only one item at a time. So far I have found that other powders come close or reproduce the performance I am getting with the two powders I picked from the data I got through Google. I have not found any powders better yet. I have tried different primers and cases but found the difference to be very small. I have not tried changing the OAL yet. I still have powders and bullets and primers I have not tried yet. Handloading for me is a constant experiment.

The best thing that has come out of all the data I have produced is that I came up with an all around load that has the best compromise of bullet/primer/powder charge that gives me the most economical round possible for each gun I own. So my economy loads give me .50" to .69" MOA at 100yds for  a lot less per round than the load that shoots one hole groups at 100yds. Which is excellent for plinking. And if I want to imitate the military ammo in accuracy I can do that too at an even greater savings. Once you develop lots of data it is like having a reloading manual tailored to your particular gun.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

bass monkey

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 05:14:52 PM »
Hey 808, I got a couple reloading books you can have.

GZire

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2013, 05:57:41 PM »
First off what are you shooting and is this for plinking, hunting, bullseye competition, 3 gun, cowboy action, etc.?

mr. me 808

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »
Thanks for the input guys!  The amount of information out there is overwhelming but  I think I'm on the right track.  My plan was to do pretty much what clshade said he does.  I'm working on loads for a 300BLK ar15.  I loaded in the middle of the recommended load and zeroed and that's about as far as I got so far.  I just finished loading 5 rounds each in .1 gr intervals, .5 gr above and below my original load to see what happens.  Do you guys notice if one thing effects your results more than another besides bullet and powder weights?  Does different light/heavy crimps, different primers, OAL make more of a difference than another?

Hey 808, I got a couple reloading books you can have.

I'll take you up on the offer for the reloading books!  Let me know how I can get a hold of you.  Thanks!

mr. me 808

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 06:03:24 PM »
First off what are you shooting and is this for plinking, hunting, bullseye competition, 3 gun, cowboy action, etc.?

AR15 in 300BLK.  Would eventually like to use this as a hunting round.  Going to my class in a couple weeks!

RKBA

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 07:30:05 PM »
Do you guys notice if one thing effects your results more than another besides bullet and powder weights?  Does different light/heavy crimps, different primers, OAL make more of a difference than another?

For me I only get super anal with precision rounds in .308. I don't know anyone who crimps precision rounds and haven't noticed any measurable difference by switching primers. Adjusting overall length improves my groups, but not by much. To be honest if I were loading .300 blackout for an AR, I wouldn't worry about how much of a difference the crimp or primers would make. And be careful with adjusting the overall length because you're limited by the internal dimensions of the magazine. You can play around with those things and that's the fun of reloading, but don't be surprised if there is barely any improvement, or none at all. With a bolt action you have more leeway in my opinion, but when you're firing it in a semi-auto you have to balance accuracy with reliable feeding.

Of course my comments are limited to my own experiences.


justin1098

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 09:33:19 PM »
I'm getting ready for 300BLK as well. I have done some research and found that H110 and Winchester 296 are the same thing and are the power of choice for supersonic loads. I will be going with sierra 125 match kings to start with. I have been loading 6mmBR and 223 for a while. There are two popular ways to develop loads, OCW (optimal charge weight) and the ladder method. The ladder method requires very few rounds but needs to be done at 200 yards at least. Not very convenient at Koko head. I use the OCW method and have had very good results. I try to bring stepped loads with one powder and bullet selection. I shoot 3 round groups twice for each weight from a bench rest. I used to do 5 round groups for load development but it was a waste of ammo and barrel life.

I recently bought a magnetospeed chronograph and that improved my results even more. Having a high power scope helps and/or a spotting scope. It also helps to bring another rifle for blasting so you don't waste a trip to the range as load development is not very fun. When you find your node it gets fun though.

I don't like to crimp rifle rounds, I have never had to because I anneal my brass and sand down the expander mandrel when I need increased neck tension. With bushing dies I remove the expander.

After I have a good load I shoot 5 round groups. They say 3 round groups test the gun 5 round groups test the shooter.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

GZire

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2013, 11:07:00 AM »
AR15 in 300BLK.  Would eventually like to use this as a hunting round.  Going to my class in a couple weeks!


Hhhmmm..........OK, my opinion would be just start in the middle of the load data and work from there.  Realistically speaking you should be able to get a decent load (enough for hunting) almost purely by consistent loads.

If you are talking something like bullseye, then I think you'll need to do a lot more work.  3 gun competition you may want to play with the weight and powder charge to help tame recoil.

bass monkey

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 11:10:48 AM »
Hey bro I'll be at the shooting fair tomorrow, so I can bring the reloading books.
Not sure if it has data for 300blk but you can have them.

Heavies

Pit808

Re: How do you guys work on loads?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 02:24:10 AM »
For pistol:

Make a dummy round ( no primer or powder) and seat bullet so oal is on the longer end for bullet profile
plunk test on all my barrels in that caliber
seat about 0.010 shorter than longest oal that passed all barrels
load dummy round in mag and check feed/extraction
check books for loads with my powder and bullet (or similar bullet) and make sure load data was not using a longer oal.  Shorter ok.
I start around middle of load data and work up 0.2 to 0.3 gr depending on case size/charge weight
chrono loads / check accuracy / pressure signs

For rifle:
dummy round with cut slots in the brass neck to allow the dummy bullet to slide so the bolt is easier to close
for bolt guns that will take longer rounds, I seat 0.015 or 0.020 off lands (use hornady comparator) 
for mag fed (AR's), I seat to max oal that will reliably feed in mags
check function with dummy round
middle of road load data and change powder wt in 0.5 gr increments.  Fine tune the best goup if I'm bored by changing the charge in smaller increment and oal.
chrono / accuracy / pressure signs

Not saying this is the best way, but it's how I do   :shaka:
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 02:29:22 AM by Pit808 »
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