I really like lasers on self defense pistols.
I'm also a huge fan of night sights on a pistol.

I've researched and statistics show that 90% of all shootings take place in low light or darkness.

What type of sight or sights do you prefer on a pistol that you'll use for self defense?

I like night sights.  I don't want to be messing around trying to turn on any fancy do-dads in a emergency.  Also, I don't like the extra bulk.

 If time allows those other items may be useful, but at the least, I want  some good night sights that are easily and quickly acquirable.

After I thought about it enough, I realized I don't like lasers.  Seemed like a great way to give away my position or tell the bad guy where to shoot.  On the same token, I avoid using flashlights either except in very short bursts.

I run a crimson trace laser on my Glock22. It also has a front fiber optic (red) and rear Hiene slant pro sight.  I also have a front fiber optic (green) on my .45 with a rear Novak half ghost ring. Dot inside ring = hit.

I like night sights, but dislike 3 dot sights.

Can you add fiber optic to the list?

Night sight front.

I'm trying to form an opinion about the rears...........I really don't like the 3 dots.  If possible I guess I'd like blacked out rear or if someone has a bar rear that is illuminated?

I really like lasers on self defense pistols.
I'm also a huge fan of night sights on a pistol.

I've researched and statistics show that 90% of all shootings take place in low light or darkness.

What type of sight or sights do you prefer on a pistol that you'll use for self defense?

I think I have started to move away from lazers.  In fact, I took my laser off of my glock.  I felt that it 1.) gave me away 2.) I never was really looking for the dot anyways, since my focus is on the front sight.  If the target was to close for the front sight, I was just using natural point of aim to sight in.

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 07, 2011, 11:25:23 PM

I really like lasers on self defense pistols.
I'm also a huge fan of night sights on a pistol.

I've researched and statistics show that 90% of all shootings take place in low light or darkness.

What type of sight or sights do you prefer on a pistol that you'll use for self defense?

I think I have started to move away from lazers.  In fact, I took my laser off of my glock.  I felt that it 1.) gave me away 2.) I never was really looking for the dot anyways, since my focus is on the front sight.  If the target was to close for the front sight, I was just using natural point of aim to sight in.

I have been thinking about this a lot. I am thinking of pulling my CrimsonTrace off my Glock22.  I added a TLR-1 to it last week and just not sure about the laser anymore. Its not really hurting anything, but I don't know that it is helping either.

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

Sombody wuvs der waserz! 

I agree with you. I have tried it with and with masking tape over mine and I am faster and have better follow up shots in low light.

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no causation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 16, 2011, 12:45:09 PM

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no causation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Sure

You bring your airsoft gun and since I don't have an airsoft Glock, I'll bring my Glock 22 and we can do force on force.

Quote from: Funtimes on June 16, 2011, 08:30:21 PM

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 16, 2011, 12:45:09 PM

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no causation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Sure

You bring your airsoft gun and since I don't have an airsoft Glock, I'll bring my Glock 22 and we can do force on force.

Keoni-san,
That is an immature comment. I suggest that you apologize to Funtimes. What you said can be interpreted as terroristic threatening.

Quote from: Funtimes on June 16, 2011, 08:30:21 PM

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 16, 2011, 12:45:09 PM

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no causation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Sure

You bring your airsoft gun and since I don't have an airsoft Glock, I'll bring my Glock 22 and we can do force on force.

No worries! probably going to pick up a few more gas blow back guns anyways to simulate training.  We will let you use our guns, and our ammo . Would be a good day to work on weapon retention from an open carry perspective to.

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 16, 2011, 09:41:35 PM

Quote from: Funtimes on June 16, 2011, 08:30:21 PM

Quote from: Kingkeoni on June 16, 2011, 12:45:09 PM

Not to disrespect anyones opinion but if you believe that you're a better or faster shot without lasers in low or no light situations, I invite you to Magnum for a hands on demonstration. (you got to pay for yourself and ammo to shoot but we can use my guns)

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no constipation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Sure

You bring your airsoft gun and since I don't have an airsoft Glock, I'll bring my Glock 22 and we can do force on force.

No worries! probably going to pick up a few more gas blow back guns anyways to simulate training.  We will let you use our guns, and our ammo . Would be a good day to work on weapon retention from an open carry perspective to.

F on F is good training but measuring my speed vs yours is no indication of whether YOU shoot a pistol faster with or without a particular sighting system in the dark.

The only way to tell is by shooting with both systems.

The reality is in total darkness or very low light situations some type of illumination is ideal.
This is why every single law enforcement agency  nationwide issues their pistols with some type of illumination. (tritium,laser,lights or some combination of these)
You on the other hand have the right and free will to do whatever you wish as far as a sighting system.
If it strikes you, on any given day, you can close your eyes and "use the force."  Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Mmmm...mmmm....mmmm...

And people wonder why anti-gun folks have such an easy time poking holes in pro arguments?  Funny how simple discussions escalate to schlong measuring contests or (whether intentional or not) something is said that can be interpreted as a threat.

The truth is that lasers increase your speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions.

I think you mean to say: It is my opinion that lasers increase speed and accuracy in low or no light conditions. You're certainly entitled to having that opinion.

The only truth is: Regardless of the sights one chooses, a shooter is only as good as the amount of practice they put into using it. 

The reality is in total darkness or very low light situations some type of illumination is ideal.

True, that's why I carry a flashlight.

This is why every single law enforcement agency  nationwide issues their pistols with some type of illumination. (tritium,laser,lights or some combination of these)

Ummm no. Over the years (and working for 4 agencies), I've been issued various sidearms...I've gone through three M9's all with standard "factory" sights, an HK USP with standard 3 dot, and currently carry an M11 (P228).  Tritium, laser, rail mounted lights, etc. are options but not standard issue. Even if they were, proper training does not involve depending on any of those under any circumstances. We train using a flashlight because it is the only way to be sure of your target and whatever may be in the background.

If it strikes you, on any given day, you can close your eyes and "use the force."  Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Does failure drills after being pepper sprayed count? If so, you can call me a Jedi master...I went 9 out of 10 the last time around. My 1 miss was low to the groin area, so I guess you're partly right about finding a nut. 

A laser may help with accuracy, however, it has no relation to speed what so ever.  In fact, most people need to turn their laser on with some form of button press or secondary manipulation; this in itself would be a slowing factor all together. The exeption, would possibly be a grip laser that turns on with pressure when the firearm is gripped. There is no causation that a laser makes you go faster. This argument would be quite similar to those who think decal stickers make the riceburner go faster! 

Additionally, this still doesn't discount a laser has a great potential to give away your position.  If lasers make people so quick and fast, how come fewer agencies, operators and contractors are utilizing them in day to day operations?  If you want to test it, we can use air-soft and do force on force; I have no need, nor will I ever, go shoot at magnum firearms.

Perhaps speed in acquiring a target (if already turned on and weapon drawn), but other than that I know what you mean. And compromising ones position is exactly why most do NOT use visible lasers in tactical situations.

As far as "force on force", how many here have really done this type of training or been in actual combat? I only ask because it seems, whether its my kids (and friends) "talkin' sh!t", or some airsoft/paintball/firearm enthusiast on forums or in person, certain terms get tossed around...AND it always makes me chuckle a bit. I've done force on force training at FLETC and been deployed quite a few times. So from experience, I can say for an absolute fact that the only true measure of speed and accuracy in such situations involves real bullets or "sim" rounds (aka simunitions).

Sure you can dim lights and get out a stop watch, or whatever but what would such results really mean? Paper targets on a range don’t return fire and is not proof of force on force superiority. Try a warehouse clearing drill against a trained OPFOR unit of instructors.

Damn. Went a bit off and forgot the OT. My preference is no preference. Whatever sights are on the pistol I happen to be using.

The way I see it, a life or death situation isn’t about bulls-eye shooting. If you’ve practiced, know the fundamentals, and can put rounds on target, you’re good to go (regardless of sights/optics/lasers).