Any LGS sell it?

Someone just watched MAC's video lol.  Don't know why you'd want a round with that much penetration, especially for home defense.  I'd like to keep my stuff intact, would hate to see a hole in the plasma or my computer tower.

Maui ammo n gun supply had some last I seen 2 days ago

Someone just watched MAC's video lol.  Don't know why you'd want a round with that much penetration, especially for home defense.  I'd like to keep my stuff intact, would hate to see a hole in the plasma or my computer tower.

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I saw a youtube video of a guy that shot a bal gel block and it did not overpenetrate.
It did fragment pretty nicely.

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I saw a youtube video of a guy that shot a bal gel block and it did not overpenetrate.
It did fragment pretty nicely.

I want some RIP rounds.

I had a discussion with a very helpful dude at the counter of Honolulu Firearms, one that helped me choose my first pistol.  He said that in cases of self defense its easier to defend a shoot if your pistol is of the same model or a similar model to one that police forces use for a bunch of random reasons (ie, if the police use it, its easy to defend your choice of firearm as it being good enough for service).  I dont know if thats really true, but if it is, id probably want to get speer gold dots on the assumption that that logic applies to ammunition too, since i believe thats what hpd uses.

I had a discussion with a very helpful dude at the counter of Honolulu Firearms, one that helped me choose my first pistol.  He said that in cases of self defense its easier to defend a shoot if your pistol is of the same model or a similar model to one that police forces use for a bunch of random reasons (ie, if the police use it, its easy to defend your choice of firearm as it being good enough for service).  I dont know if thats really true, but if it is, id probably want to get speer gold dots on the assumption that that logic applies to ammunition too, since i believe thats what hpd uses.

But I don't want a G17 

But I don't want a G17 

lol, he wasnt saying HPD specifically.  he was just saying police use in general makes your weapon more defensible.  like, he said a Sig P226 or a CZ 75 BD fly over better than a light triggered 1911, for example.

i didnt want a g17 either.

I had a discussion with a very helpful dude at the counter of Honolulu Firearms, one that helped me choose my first pistol.  He said that in cases of self defense its easier to defend a shoot if your pistol is of the same model or a similar model to one that police forces use for a bunch of random reasons (ie, if the police use it, its easy to defend your choice of firearm as it being good enough for service).  I dont know if thats really true, but if it is, id probably want to get speer gold dots on the assumption that that logic applies to ammunition too, since i believe thats what hpd uses.

that's that guys opinion and you know what the saying is about opinions. Now here is mine I would think regardless of the firearm used in a defensive shooting here you'd be treated the same. Buy what you like or what you think you like if you don't like it sell it the main thing is you are happy and what you bought fits your own perception of right and your needs.

that's that guys opinion and you know what the saying is about opinions. Now here is mine I would think regardless of the firearm used in a defensive shooting here you'd be treated the same. Buy what you like or what you think you like if you don't like it sell it the main thing is you are happy and what you bought fits your own perception of right and your needs.

Unfortunately, not all self-/home-defense shootings are created equal.  Nor are all judges, DAs and juries totally guided by logic and strict interpretation of the law.

First thing to consider:  If involved in a shooting to defend your life or property, your firearm will be confiscated as evidence.  So, ask yourself if you'd mind having a $500-$550 Glock in the evidence locker for months, if not years, or would you rather have your $2,000 Les Baer pistol sitting there with the property clerks eying it every time they are in the locker?  I personally would rather be without the Glock than a more valuable and maybe more difficult to replace handgun.

Second thing:  If all is cut and dried, and there is no question about the shooting being justified, then your life might get back to semi-normal quickly.  But what if there are questions?  What if you and the guy you shot knew each other?  What if he was a coworker who  decided to come by and start a fight over something silly at work?  What if a neighbor gave a statement that contradicts your story?  There is going to be an investigation, and perhaps even a trial -- or two if the family goes after money for wrongful death.  So, now you are at trial.  The prosecutor or plaintiff's lawyer will be trying everything to make you out to be a bad guy with a gun and an itchy trigger finger.  Let's look at your gun's configuration.  Is the trigger a stock 5+ lbs from the factory, or did you lighten up the trigger pull to 3 lbs?  Did you add any decorations, like Punisher logos, Skull & Crossbones, or the name "Dillinger" on the slide?  The lawyers will use that to show you could be a nutcase aching to pull that trigger for some dark reason, or maybe the 3 lb pull caused you to discharge the gun accidentally.  Any doubt as to your intentions or skills using  that gun works for them, and against you.

The last thing to consider is the "reputation" of your weapon of choice.  Handguns are not really as big a problem as some rifles.  AK-47s have been given a bad rap due to some events where the bad guys chose to use them for illegal shootings.  The same can now be said for the AR-15 after Sandy Hook.  If a burglar is shot with a Remington 700 hunting rifle, that's not as scary-sounding as you taking out your AK-47 and firing 3 rounds into him.   Just the image of an AK may cause the jury to have an emotional response that hurts your case.

Your choice of defensive gun is mostly about reliable operation and effectiveness.  However, once the shooting is over, it's also about impressions and stereotypes that many low-information-jurists might harbor about these guns they know nothing about.  You could be setting yourself up for a steep uphill climb should you find yourself defending your actions in court.  At some point, you'll be wondering why you didn't buy that Glock 17 like HPD uses!

Choosing Self Defense Guns
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/choosing-self-defense-guns

I want some RIP rounds.

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We had a similar discussion a few months ago about the rip ammo.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=16640.0

The last thing to consider is the "reputation" of your weapon of choice.

that's basically what he was saying.  choosing a firearm either designed for the police forces or used by a police force instantly paints your gun in a more positive light by association.  likewise, using something like a tricked out target pistol or an ar-15 paints a bad image with many people in the courts.

While that liberty ammo looks like a fine choice, would you be able to afford a large quantity to practice with?
Does any organization use that ammo so we know that it has been tested for reliable function in many guns?

Unfortunately, not all self-/home-defense shootings are created equal.  Nor are all judges, DAs and juries totally guided by logic and strict interpretation of the law.

First thing to consider:  If involved in a shooting to defend your life or property, your firearm will be confiscated as evidence.  So, ask yourself if you'd mind having a $500-$550 Glock in the evidence locker for months, if not years, or would you rather have your $2,000 Les Baer pistol sitting there with the property clerks eying it every time they are in the locker?  I personally would rather be without the Glock than a more valuable and maybe more difficult to replace handgun.

I didn't buy a G17 because I bought a VP9 instead ;-).  At $650 it's still affordable enough to lose to an evidence locker for a short while lol.  My absolute bottom line when deciding what gun I would put at my bedside was that it had to be striker fired and couldn't have a safety.

I didn't buy a G17 because I bought a VP9 instead ;-).  At $650 it's still affordable enough to lose to an evidence locker for a short while lol.  My absolute bottom line when deciding what gun I would put at my bedside was that it had to be striker fired and couldn't have a safety.

So, next question: while your $650 gun is in evidence, are you going to already have a backup gun in the house for protection? Either way, replacing that gun or having a spare will cost another $650, meaning you paid $1300 for 2 pistols.  With the Glock, you would have spent $1000-$1100 for 2 pistols.  In some people's budget, $300 is a big difference in total cost.   There are benefits to having a G17 and either a G19 or maybe another make/caliber (VP9).  It's always smart to have a backup, and learning to shoot more than one pistol is never a bad thing.

I didn't buy a G17 because I bought a VP9 instead ;-).  At $650 it's still affordable enough to lose to an evidence locker for a short while lol.  My absolute bottom line when deciding what gun I would put at my bedside was that it had to be striker fired and couldn't have a safety.

what makes you think it will be a short while?

Many people dont even get their guns back, and with the way kealoha runs things....

So, next question: while your $650 gun is in evidence, are you going to already have a backup gun in the house for protection? Either way, replacing that gun or having a spare will cost another $650, meaning you paid $1300 for 2 pistols.  With the Glock, you would have spent $1000-$1100 for 2 pistols.  In some people's budget, $300 is a big difference in total cost.   There are benefits to having a G17 and either a G19 or maybe another make/caliber (VP9).  It's always smart to have a backup, and learning to shoot more than one pistol is never a bad thing.

I do indeed have a backup weapon.  I would also jump all over a different caliber.

what makes you think it will be a short while?

Many people dont even get their guns back, and with the way kealoha runs things....

What makes you think it'll be a long time?  Do you have any specific cases or examples or is this all conjecture?

Okay, so the thread has gotten a little off topic, but is there any LGSs on Oahu that carry it?