These idiots can't even handle allowing FFL003 access to the database, doubtful they'll be able to handle the general public.  I'm assuming we're talking about Hawaii, all of this is a moot point as the impetus is on PD to check.

The fact is though, any hoops people jump through doesn't really matter if guns are being smuggled illegally from mexico anyways...

This is Federal level, so assuming anywhere in the US.

A while ago, there was an article that the division that handles the background checks is very under staffed.  They get thousands of request a day.  If every employee was working for 24 hours, this only gives each person 2 minutes to verify each request that comes through.  We all know that not every employee works everyday, and that the division is probably only open 9-5.  So that 2 minutes turns into less.

I can't find the link to the article.  So they do impenitent the background checks for private sales, then who ever runs it needs way more staff and funding.  Not to mention that Cruz did pass a background check, so did Pallock.  So background checks won't be the solution.

Back when Obama was pushing new gun control ideas after Sandy Hook, there was Congressional Testimony held for a panel of various representatives including Wayne La Pierre of the NRA.  When they were talking about background checks and the NICS system, Gabby Giffords' husband, Mark Kelly, testified how there is a massive backlog entering into the system all the reports from states that could/would prohibit gun purchases.  On top of that, only a minority of states have laws that mandate the submission of such reports to NICS.  So, if all the states were reporting, the backlog would be impossible to manage.  If the information isn't in the system, the system is useless.

From that testimony came a "solution": a website called FixNICS.org   It's good info, but it illustrates how disjointed the federal gun laws are in relation to states' laws.


Recently, Nevada passed what people call Universal Background Checks.  They discovered the NRA was absolutely correct:  Background checks for private sales are unenforceable without a mandatory registration system, and the FBI is not equipped, nor required, to run the checks for anything other than new gun sales using the ATF Form 4473.  Talk about piss poor planning!   

Nevada’s new gun background check law ends before it begins

But unlike retail sales, the initiative states that dealers conducting background checks for private transfers must
contact the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System to determine whether the buyer is eligible to purchase
or possess firearms under state and federal law.

“The Background Check Act mandates that the FBI conduct all background checks for personal transfers,” Monica Moazez,
spokeswoman for the attorney general’s office, said in a statement. “The FBI, on Dec. 14, informed the Department of Public
Safety that it will not conduct these background checks.

“Accordingly, the official Attorney General Opinion concludes that without this central feature … the Background Check Act
cannot commence.”

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-nevada/nevadas-new-gun-background-check-law-ends-before-it-begins/

This is Federal level, so assuming anywhere in the US.

since we're talking federal, and they love their federal forms, simply make people doing private sales fill out a form 4473 and send it in.  Whether or not the govt is able to do the background check is on them.  If it's discovered later that the person isn't eligible, they have that individual's information and can track them down.  Yes it isn't as "safe" as holding the firearm until the check is completed, but it's a decent compromise.     Because they are backlogged, it would be smarter to do a background check on one individual once a year.  Instead of doing it for ever firearm transfer that goes through.

To make it easier for the layperson doing a transfer once in a while, they could make a form 4473-EZ, a simplified form that is still enough to do the background check.

With antigun people asking for background checks on private sales of firearms, how would that work on a Federal level if implemented nationally?   If I agreed to sell a gun to someone at a gun show would I call a 1-800 number to run a NICS instant background check on someone and fill out the ATF forms?  Or would require the transactions go through a FFL or LE?

The idea I have been toying with for some time is a sort of permit we can apply for that the seller can check. Rather than than a paper permit we have a system where someone applies for an ID type license to purchase firearms. Someone still goes through the process like normal with background checks then once approved they get an ID that has the picture, the name, and an ID # on it.

Then when one person wants to sell to another person they are required to ask the buyer for the ID. They then call the police department and provide the ID number which the police then say the permit is valid or the permit has been revoked. If valid the seller then knows the buyer is legally allowed to purchase a firearm and they complete the purchase.

This would work on a number of levels.

It would save time for people always applying for new permits and it would work in places where registration is required and where there is no registration. If in a state where there is no registration is required the process ends there and no one is required to register. If the police really need to track back a firearm they can trace from the original buyer and down each step by talking to the legal owners. Police doesn't even have to know if a sale is made, just that a check was performed, so all the feds would know is you have a license to legally purchase firearms. In Hawaii we would still have to register as normal.

It would also protect the seller because he/she can do a quick check to make sure they are not selling something to a person not allowed to purchase a firearm. Currently if I sell a gun to someone here I have no idea if their long gun permit is still valid and I could unwittingly sell to a criminal or crazy person who still has their paper permit.

If there was a criminal conviction or other issue in the meantime, police could revoke the license and inform the seller this person cannot buy a firearm. They don't have to say why either so someone's privacy will be protected.

I think this could also help address people who do illegal straw purchases. If a straw purchaser did not check for this license before selling they can be cited or charged whereas previously they could just claim ignorance when making a private sale.

Some of the fine details need to be worked out but I believe this system could address the "gunshow loophole" while providing protection to sellers, be a more effective way to have checks made, and still offer the option of not having gun owners tracked.

Thoughts?

The idea I have been toying with for some time is a sort of permit we can apply for that the seller can check. Rather than than a paper permit we have a system where someone applies for an ID type license to purchase firearms. Someone still goes through the process like normal with background checks then once approved they get an ID that has the picture, the name, and an ID # on it.

Then when one person wants to sell to another person they are required to ask the buyer for the ID. They then call the police department and provide the ID number which the police then say the permit is valid or the permit has been revoked. If valid the seller then knows the buyer is legally allowed to purchase a firearm and they complete the purchase.

This would work on a number of levels.

It would save time for people always applying for new permits and it would work in places where registration is required and where there is no registration. If in a state where there is no registration is required the process ends there and no one is required to register. If the police really need to track back a firearm they can trace from the original buyer and down each step by talking to the legal owners. Police doesn't even have to know if a sale is made, just that a check was performed, so all the feds would know is you have a license to legally purchase firearms. In Hawaii we would still have to register as normal.

It would also protect the seller because he/she can do a quick check to make sure they are not selling something to a person not allowed to purchase a firearm. Currently if I sell a gun to someone here I have no idea if their long gun permit is still valid and I could unwittingly sell to a criminal or crazy person who still has their paper permit.

If there was a criminal conviction or other issue in the meantime, police could revoke the license and inform the seller this person cannot buy a firearm. They don't have to say why either so someone's privacy will be protected.

I think this could also help address people who do illegal straw purchases. If a straw purchaser did not check for this license before selling they can be cited or charged whereas previously they could just claim ignorance when making a private sale.

Some of the fine details need to be worked out but I believe this system could address the "gunshow loophole" while providing protection to sellers, be a more effective way to have checks made, and still offer the option of not having gun owners tracked.

Thoughts?

Wouldn't the license or ID be a form of Federal registration which is illegal.  Gun owners would be against anything that creates a database with their name as a firearm owner (or potential one).  Federal or State level.

since we're talking federal, and they love their federal forms, simply make people doing private sales fill out a form 4473 and send it in.  Whether or not the govt is able to do the background check is on them.  If it's discovered later that the person isn't eligible, they have that individual's information and can track them down.  Yes it isn't as "safe" as holding the firearm until the check is completed, but it's a decent compromise.     Because they are backlogged, it would be smarter to do a background check on one individual once a year.  Instead of doing it for ever firearm transfer that goes through.

To make it easier for the layperson doing a transfer once in a while, they could make a form 4473-EZ, a simplified form that is still enough to do the background check.

sounds like registration to me, which is illegal.  Background check should be accomplished and records destroyed.

Wouldn't the license or ID be a form of Federal registration which is illegal.  Gun owners would be against anything that creates a database with their name as a firearm owner (or potential one).  Federal or State level.

I think this idea could be workable.  Think like Hawaii's "permit to aquire" however, no records are permanently kept, and no registration is required.  You get the "permit to acquire" after requisite background checks, but no records of any actual purchase. 

The form could be used for sellers and buyers to confirm eligibility, yet protect people's rights, and not be a federal registration scheme.

Of course the only way to keep people honest is to do spot checks and random type sting operations to see if people are following the law.  Which maybe illegal? Entrapment?
And the background check system needs to be made effective.

sounds like registration to me, which is illegal.  Background check should be accomplished and records destroyed.

It's done already for ffl transactions.   Unless you bought all your guns private party and don't register with tgem state,  they have you in a database already.   Would you really believe anyone that says they'll destroy the records?  Government mentality is it's"safer" to keep everything,  and departments tend to do so.    Feds could make that same promise.   Zippy asked how it would be accomplished on the federal level,  this is how.  Not saying that i agree with it.

Feeds can barely handle normal background checks from ffls,  how are thry handling private party ones too?  Telling people to wait weeks while they check and issue a permit isn't going to fly.   Way earlier to just do the transaction and send in a form, which is the same process the ffl dealer does.  He's not waiting for a response from the feds before giving you the firearm.    Leave it up to the feds to check if they wish.  If you want them to promise to destroy the form, I guess it's up to you if you really believe that