Anyone run a 13.7/13.5 upper pin and welded to the legal 16. Was it worth it to you? How do you clean the pin and welded device?

Thanks,
-Z

The shorter barrel will give you more maneuverability vs the 16 but you will lose muzzle velocity. It's a trade off. Plenty of ballistic comparisons out there. In the grand scheme it's not a big deal if you're not going past 300M. At that distance, you're better off running away and hiding for another day. Home defense, you're gaining a lot at under 25M distance. The ability to get around your home is better. While not "legal" in Hi, a 10.5 or 11.5 is a great CQB.

Cleaning is no different than for a 16. Do you remove your muzzle device now? There is no reason to as far as I know other than going through crush washers and shims if you want to retime your MD every time you clean.

The biggest downside to P/W is you're stuck with a specific gas block and rail system. If you don't like it, it's a pain and can be expensive to change. Grind off the old, change what you want, reinstall a new MD and have it welded. Koffinwurks and others will do the P/W but it will cost you.

Would I do it? Yes, just to gain the mobility and loss of front end weight. Taking 2 inches off the lever (physics) can make a long range session much more enjoyable.

That's my 2 cents.

I've read expert opinions that a 20" barrel is the "perfect" length for an AR-15 in terms of accuracy and lethality at distances beyond 200m.

Since 16" is the legal limit for how short your rifle barrel can be without an NFA stamp, that's become the standard.

Realistically, the difference between 16" and 20" represents an effectiveness at 200m vs. 250m respectively.  So, the 16" barrel length is not a major disadvantage for most.  The improved close quarters use is a trade-off for lethality at greater distances.  All depends on how you will ordinarily use it.

I identify as Asian so every inch counts. If I need to go into confines that would be better with anything shorter than 16" I would use a pistola. Pin and weld cost could go into the purchase of a new pistola.

I have a ton more 14.5 P&W'd to 16, than actual 16's, in 7.62x39, 5.56NATO, 308, 9mm.  I figure if the law says I can only go as short as 16, then 16 including the muzzle brake it is.  Love them Colt SOCOM's!     

if the barrel only requires muzzle device P&W, I'm able to do my own (MIG), not always the prettiest, but functional.  If I want the barrel shortened, or an A2 FSB fitted, then I send it out and have the gunsmith P&W the brake at the same time.

seems to me that 13.7 and 13.5 would require an inordinately long muzzle device.  usually it's 14.7 or 14.5.  unless I guess it's one of those huge Krink-or-whatever brakes.  Usually the 2-1/4" OAL (or longer) muzzle brakes get the 14.5 to legal 16.  USGI A1/A2 flash hider needs 14.7 or a 14.5+spacer to get to 16.

I identify as Asian so every inch counts.

Classic quote right there.

It all depends on what you want to get out of the gun or what you want it to do.  Caliber also comes into consideration since .30 cal tends to retain velocity better out of shorter barrels. 

that's not what she said...

The shorter barrel will give you more maneuverability vs the 16 but you will lose muzzle velocity. It's a trade off. Plenty of ballistic comparisons out there. In the grand scheme it's not a big deal if you're not going past 300M. At that distance, you're better off running away and hiding for another day. Home defense, you're gaining a lot at under 25M distance. The ability to get around your home is better. While not "legal" in Hi, a 10.5 or 11.5 is a great CQB.

Cleaning is no different than for a 16. Do you remove your muzzle device now? There is no reason to as far as I know other than going through crush washers and shims if you want to retime your MD every time you clean.

The biggest downside to P/W is you're stuck with a specific gas block and rail system. If you don't like it, it's a pain and can be expensive to change. Grind off the old, change what you want, reinstall a new MD and have it welded. Koffinwurks and others will do the P/W but it will cost you.

Would I do it? Yes, just to gain the mobility and loss of front end weight. Taking 2 inches off the lever (physics) can make a long range session much more enjoyable.

That's my 2 cents.

I was considering it but honestly with the amount it cost to pin and weld I could spend a lot more on training and ammo. To me the velocity lost and I only get 1.5" length savings really wasnt worth it to me

Anyone run a 13.7/13.5 upper pin and welded to the legal 16. Was it worth it to you? How do you clean the pin and welded device?

Thanks,
-Z

What’s the caliber and intended use?

I have a couple of 14.5 in 5.56/.223 with P&W brakes. Worth it? I got them because I got great deals. These are for competition and defense/training. Barrel length not that important, but I’ve shot it out to 400 on 12” steel. It’s about 2” shorter than my non P&W uppers, but not a big difference. Slightly less weight, but not a “worth it” consideration.

Cleaning the brake? Shoot it and clean the whole gun like any other AR. I don’t do anything special to clean the brakes or muzzle devices on any of my ARs.

Sorry if a little off topic but how much do places charge to pin and weld?

SNIP

seems to me that 13.7 and 13.5 would require an inordinately long muzzle device.  usually it's 14.7 or 14.5.  unless I guess it's one of those huge Krink-or-whatever brakes.  Usually the 2-1/4" OAL (or longer) muzzle brakes get the 14.5 to legal 16.  USGI A1/A2 flash hider needs 14.7 or a 14.5+spacer to get to 16.

A 13.7 with a SURFIRE Warcomp (2.7") with a couple shims will put you right at 16 plus a pubic hair. And that is all you need to be legal. That's assuming the 1/2" loss for the threading. Put a direct thread SUREFIRE WARDEN no shims and it's at 16.2. I'm sure there are other MDs out there that will fit the bill also.

Sorry if a little off topic but how much do places charge to pin and weld?

I had Craig/RedLetter do a couple for me.  I think $40-50 ish, but not positive and it was a while back.  Best to check with him.  If you need help reaching out to him, please hit me up via DM.

Sorry if a little off topic but how much do places charge to pin and weld?

Call KOFFINWURKS in Kailua
https://www.koffinwurks.net/
koffinwurks@gmail.com
(808) 636-4564

I've read expert opinions that a 20" barrel is the "perfect" length for an AR-15 in terms of accuracy and lethality at distances beyond 200m.

Since 16" is the legal limit for how short your rifle barrel can be without an NFA stamp, that's become the standard.

Realistically, the difference between 16" and 20" represents an effectiveness at 200m vs. 250m respectively.  So, the 16" barrel length is not a major disadvantage for most.  The improved close quarters use is a trade-off for lethality at greater distances.  All depends on how you will ordinarily use it.

Chambered in 5.56 yes, because some calibers require a lot less muzzle length for peak velocity, such as 300 blackout

I had Craig/RedLetter do a couple for me.  I think $40-50 ish, but not positive and it was a while back.  Best to check with him.  If you need help reaching out to him, please hit me up via DM.

Thanks.
I spoke with him a few years ago. Very nice guy!

If you enjoy trying out new rifle parts and upgrades, then it makes more sense to go with a 16" barrel.  That way you can have the ability to change out the muzzle device whenever you want.

If the barrel OR barrel + muzzle device has to be 16", you're not gaining much in regards to shorter barrel advantages.  If your device is 1.5", you'll be handling a 17.5" long barrel effectively.

But, if you want to do your experimenting with a shorter barrel, then you're limiting yourself to devices that will achieve that magical yet arbitrary length of 16".

To everyone that was watching this, it is supposed to be a swapped-out upper with the same lower with a closer range fulfillment. But someone did bring up a pistol and save up for one and honestly, it makes sense. If it helps, chambered in 5.56 and I'm ordering from a place that would provide the welding and the muzzle device that makes it appropriate to the 16-inch requrement.

If the barrel OR barrel + muzzle device has to be 16", you're not gaining much in regards to shorter barrel advantages.

My take on the whole sub-16" barrel thing in a democrat run state. 

Really seems pointless and then you have a barrel you are tied to some smith to work on.

I like my 13.7, much easier to shoulder and maneuver than my 18" (don't have a 16" to compare).

But like the others have touched on, you're stuck with the muzzle device and gas system once you p/w. If you already have a 16", you have to decide if that inch and a half or so in length and a few oz in weight is worth the $

To everyone that was watching this, it is supposed to be a swapped-out upper with the same lower with a closer range fulfillment. But someone did bring up a pistol and save up for one and honestly, it makes sense. If it helps, chambered in 5.56 and I'm ordering from a place that would provide the welding and the muzzle device that makes it appropriate to the 16-inch requrement.

Any particular reason 13.something vice 14.5? 

For "closer range fulfillment", don't think you're going to have much issues with 13.5/13.7.  However, with the P&W to 16, don't think you really gain much either.