What if this happened in Hawaii.... (Read 958 times)

ren

What if this happened in Hawaii....
« on: July 31, 2024, 08:30:40 PM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/08/01/hawaii-man-suspected-deliberately-running-over-protected-birds-washington-could-face-fines-possible-jail-time/

A Hawaii man could be facing fines and even jail time for allegedly running over protected birds in Washington state.

That state’s Department of Fish and Wildlife Police released a photo of the man accused of deliberately driving a rented Jeep into about two dozen seagulls on Klipsan Beach Saturday evening.
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2024, 03:50:13 AM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/08/01/hawaii-man-suspected-deliberately-running-over-protected-birds-washington-could-face-fines-possible-jail-time/

A Hawaii man could be facing fines and even jail time for allegedly running over protected birds in Washington state.

That state’s Department of Fish and Wildlife Police released a photo of the man accused of deliberately driving a rented Jeep into about two dozen seagulls on Klipsan Beach Saturday evening.

I can speak to this as I'm legally a resident of WA state although I've lived in Hawaii 24 years now.
This my opinion only!
In WA state he will be fined and possibly jailed/ on probation.
Were he in Hawaii and claimed to be Hawaiian not a thing would be done as
indiscriminate killing for cultural reasons is OK here.
If I sound "Jaded" it is because I've seen to much abuse based upon race.
I have to follow every rule Hawaiians don't.
Kind of like WA state Indians on the Res indiscriminate killing of Elk.
By the time all these "protected" people get done, nothing will be left
to hunt or fish for..
 :grrr:
But It won't be due to me. 


oldfart

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2024, 06:50:45 AM »
The guy has psych issues. People that kill or abuse animals like that are just a step away from doing the same to people.

It's a common pattern.
What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2024, 10:03:07 AM »
I can speak to this as I'm legally a resident of WA state although I've lived in Hawaii 24 years now.
This my opinion only!
In WA state he will be fined and possibly jailed/ on probation.
Were he in Hawaii and claimed to be Hawaiian not a thing would be done as
indiscriminate killing for cultural reasons is OK here.
If I sound "Jaded" it is because I've seen to much abuse based upon race.
I have to follow every rule Hawaiians don't.
Kind of like WA state Indians on the Res indiscriminate killing of Elk.
By the time all these "protected" people get done, nothing will be left
to hunt or fish for..
 :grrr:
But It won't be due to me.

Which state you live in may not matter.  Well, it seems to matter more to some than to others!   :geekdanc:

Endangered Species Act is Federal, so they may have national jurisdiction depending on the bird species involved.

Civil penalties for knowingly killing or importing/exporting protected animals for business can be up to $25,000.per violation.

If you didn't know the species was endangered, you could still have to pay $500 per violation

Criminal violations are a bit worse.  Fine is up to $50,000, or up to a year in prison, or both.

The Act authorizes rewards for anyone furnishing information of anyone violating the Act.  It also authorizes payment to reimburse expenses for the rescue and care of endangered species.

Quote
The several district courts of the United States, including the courts enumerated
in section 460 of title 28, United States Code, shall have jurisdiction over any
actions arising under this Act. For the purpose of this Act, American Samoa shall
be included within the judicial district of the District Court of the United States for
the District of Hawaii.
https://www.fws.gov/laws/endangered-species-act/section-11

Whether or not it falls under this federal act is up to whether the birds are "Endangered Species" or "Threatened Species" according to their definition.  If not, then it would fall to the state.

WA has 12 species of birds on the Endangered list, 0 species on
the Threatened list, and 2 on the Sensitive list. 

"Protected" is a general term, so I can't tell which list these birds are on.

Quote
Sandhill Crane -
Snowy Plover FT
Upland Sandpiperx -
Marbled Murrelet FT
Tufted Puffin -
Columbian Sharp-tailed Grouse -
Greater Sage-grouse -
Ferruginous Hawk -
Northern Spotted Owl FT
Yellow-billed Cuckoox  FT
Streaked Horned Lark FT
Oregon Vesper Sparrow 90d
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/wa-state-listed-and-candidate-species-list.pdf

5 of the 12 Endangered are also on the federal list for Threatened Species (FT)
and the last says "USFWS has made a 90-day finding that listing may be warranted (90d)."

With that much overlap, it's 50/50 whether he gets charged in federal court.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2024, 10:04:09 AM »
Q:  What's the difference between "UNLAWFUL" and "ILLEGAL?"


A:  One is against the law.  The other is a sick bird.

 :geekdanc: :shaka:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2024, 11:06:35 AM »
Which state you live in may not matter.  Well, it seems to matter more to some than to others!   :geekdanc:

Endangered Species Act is Federal, so they may have national jurisdiction depending on the bird species involved.

Civil penalties for knowingly killing or importing/exporting protected animals for business can be up to $25,000.per violation.

If you didn't know the species was endangered, you could still have to pay $500 per violation

Criminal violations are a bit worse.  Fine is up to $50,000, or up to a year in prison, or both.

The Act authorizes rewards for anyone furnishing information of anyone violating the Act.  It also authorizes payment to reimburse expenses for the rescue and care of endangered species.
https://www.fws.gov/laws/endangered-species-act/section-11

Whether or not it falls under this federal act is up to whether the birds are "Endangered Species" or "Threatened Species" according to their definition.  If not, then it would fall to the state.

WA has 12 species of birds on the Endangered list, 0 species on
the Threatened list, and 2 on the Sensitive list. 

"Protected" is a general term, so I can't tell which list these birds are on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/wa-state-listed-and-candidate-species-list.pdf

5 of the 12 Endangered are also on the federal list for Threatened Species (FT)
and the last says "USFWS has made a 90-day finding that listing may be warranted (90d)."

With that much overlap, it's 50/50 whether he gets charged in federal court.
My reply to your list is this;
In WA state if it isn't listed as a game bird for hunting
it is by definition protected by something or someone,
so leave it be.
In Hawaii. I can get a hunting license, have hunted
and if isn't a game bird you don't mess with it.

In both states you just can't kill for the heck of it.
If you are a white man.
Locals and Indians do as they darn well please.
 :grrr:


Flapp_Jackson

Re: What if this happened in Hawaii....
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2024, 12:03:03 PM »
My reply to your list is this;
In WA state if it isn't listed as a game bird for hunting
it is by definition protected by something or someone,
so leave it be.
In Hawaii. I can get a hunting license, have hunted
and if isn't a game bird you don't mess with it.

In both states you just can't kill for the heck of it.
If you are a white man.
Locals and Indians do as they darn well please.
 :grrr:

I don't think running over birds on the ground with a Jeep is "hunting" -- by definition.

So, none of the rules of hunting apply to this.  Lists of birds okay to hunt would also not apply.

Either they are on the endangered/threatened lists, or they aren't.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw