How can these checkpoints be legal?

Here’s a crew of folks refusing to submit to questioning at Department of Homeland Security immigration checkpoints that aren’t actually at the border (and one case of a driver refusing to cooperate with one of California’s produce checkpoints as an employee hilariously thinks he can make him leave the state).

Are they?   Something about the greater good trampling on individual rights?  If we can catch just one illegal (item, fish, ?).  :-/

What a waste of time on both sides. Is it worth the time to be difficult, or answer one question and be on your way?

What a waste of time on both sides. Is it worth the time to be difficult, or answer one question and be on your way?

not really a waste of time as they are trampling on his rights as a US american citizen.  This isn't nazi german where you had to have traveled with your papers and show them on command!  Perhaps your too young to remember WW2 and the crazy shit we fought against but for many people still alive, its as fresh as it was yesterday was!  If you have never lived in a communist/police state, consider yourself lucky and know that better men then you have died for your rights! 

Or am I free to go?

WTF is this country coming to??

A catch 22. We demand more secure borders. He don't like checkpoints. :shrug: Not sure how else they'd do it.

The vast majority of security for the populate is theater anyway. Less about effective border security as it is about demonstrating a presence.

If you watch the whole video you'll see that these DHS guys don't even know why they're doing what they're doing. They think that they're "protecting" the country and don't realize they're trampling our civil rights and constitution


same way I feel about the "stop and frisk" policy in NY. total BS

"Good day, sir."

"Good day, Officer."

"Are you a criminal?"

"Uh... wait... let me think.... uh.... yes. No, wait.... No. No, I'm not."

"Ok, on your way then."

 

Reminds me of the time I went from Oregon to California with a girlfriend who saw authority slightly differently that I do. We had a couple bags of organic veggies and lettuce in the back seat. A few miles before the 'Agricultural Check Station" I nonchalantly threw a my coat over them.

"Good day, sir, do you have any fruits or vegetables in the car?"

"No, sir."

"Ok, thanks. Have a good day."

"You too."

The GF looked at me as we drove off and said "But we do have fruits and veggies!"

"I know. Its called lying."

"Why did you lie to the officer?!"

"Because they're looking for things bought at roadside stands that haven't been sprayed with crap or people trying to import lower cost produce into the highly regulated state. I didn't want to waste our time or his explaining that we bought the veggies at a health food store, that they're organic but  still perfectly safe. Nor did I want him to decided our wonderful pesticide free food wasn't safe enough for California and confiscate $75 worth of produce."

"But.... you lied to him! What if he found out?"

"He wouldn't. Searching the car would be illegal unless he had probably cause. That's why I covered up the veggies. It's fine. We haven't done anything illegal, I just didn't want to stop and have to explain that fact to him."

"Oh."

i saw one where a guy pulled out a bible asked if they would like to talk about Jesus and they let him get on his way real quick like.

What a waste of time on both sides. Is it worth the time to be difficult, or answer one question and be on your way?

It may seem like a waste of time but really it is just standing up for our rights, Sadly most people are not even aware of their rights and comply immediately. "a right unexcercised is a right lost" I see alot of these same type stops with open carriers getting stopped by police. Fact is they do not have the power to do so and you do not have to give them you're name. Just ask "am I being detained?" and "am i free to go?"

Been thinking about this a bit today.

What the LEO's are doing is harmless in realistic terms. The same is true of sobriety checkpoints. I don't drive drunk, I'm not an illegal alien... easiest course of action is to just say "Yeah, I'm an American" and be on your way. Or "No, officer, I have not been drinking."

While its true that they have no power to randomly stop you, demand and expect answers to questions and that it is ~really~ good to understand what your rights are and how to enforce them... for the most part this kind of behavior is unproductive.

I'd keep a close eye on it, though. If they try to pass new laws making refusal to cooperate with questions grounds for probably cause or some other such thing then its time to rail against that bill.

A friend of mine is a essentially a SWAT policeman in Germany and we talked about this kind of thing a bit. Apparently German drivers are required to have a first aid kit in the car and a police officer has the right to observe it just like they ask for license and registration here. He told me that he uses that as a way to see more of the inside of the car if the person has refused to allow search. If he sees something suspicious then he has probable cause to force the search. Something to watch out for if they decide to try changing rules about how and why LEO's can stop you and what they can demand.

... easiest course of action is to just say "Yeah, I'm an American" and be on your way. Or "No, officer, I have not been drinking."...

If it really is that easy, what is the point? Do they think people who are not citizens are really so stupid they are going to answer "no sir I am here in this country illegally please arrest and deport me"

Asking one question leads to, let me see you're id. leads to searching the system for you're name and car, where are you going, where have you been. etc. It is an invasion of privacy. Our freedoms have been hard fought and we should protect and exercise them!

It may seem like a waste of time but really it is just standing up for our rights, Sadly most people are not even aware of their rights and comply immediately. "a right unexcercised is a right lost" I see alot of these same type stops with open carriers getting stopped by police. Fact is they do not have the power to do so and you do not have to give them you're name. Just ask "am I being detained?" and "am i free to go?"

That's the only problem with most of the "oc" type guys.  I'm not there to have a discussion about what you can't do, what you can do - we are not going to get to that phase.  We are not going to get past me sounding like a robot on am I being detained or am I free to go.

The “check points” are just that, check points. They are physically using their senses to check your vehicles content up close without probable cause and using the intrusion in attempt to find probable cause. The check point is not Constitutionally sound. Furthermore, the check points do not effectively assist in keeping illegal aliens from entering or traveling about the United States nor do they keep contaminates out of a particular state. The new interior immigration check points are simply another tool in use to further our tolerances in non-Constitutional encroachments.

Maybe Oathkeepers.org should start an Oathbreakers.org and allow the public to enter the names of Oathbreakers and what agency/branch they serve in and what action was taken that broke the oath.

Every time we allow a right to be infringed in the slightest, we further allow the inevitable complete erosion of all rights. 130 years ago when it came to the second amendment, people were being shot left and right with firearms yet the federal government did not contemplate infringing on the right to bear arms.

Like it or not, the general population has become more and more complacent regarding fundamental rights.  Our synthetic society has evolved a few generations worth of people who have been afforded far too much insulation from real world matters. The United States is now a glutinous propaganda state with no more governing limitations. The courts no longer apply strict scrutiny unless convenient and our representatives no longer understand limits of power. Basically, we have already missed our chance to kiss the Free United States of America goodbye, she’s gone baby, gone and not one tear was shed for her.

So to answer the topic question; yes - the gates have been behind you.