The problem as I see it is the documentation that the rifle is 50 years old. I don't know how stringent HPD's requirements are on that for proof. In order to avoid that issue I could do the transfer through the 01 FFL, but as you said that entails the transfer fee and totally negates the purpose behind the C&R license.

I would love to see some legislation that added C&R firearms to HI registration exemption list. But then again I wish the whole thing went away, so if the gun control groups can use incrementalism, so can we! 

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The problem as I see it is the documentation that the rifle is 50 years old. I don't know how stringent HPD's requirements are on that for proof. In order to avoid that issue I could do the transfer through the 01 FFL, but as you said that entails the transfer fee and totally negates the purpose behind the C&R license.

I would love to see some legislation that added C&R firearms to HI registration exemption list. But then again I wish the whole thing went away, so if the gun control groups can use incrementalism, so can we! 

I would write a letter to the firearm company.  It will take some time, but it might help with registration if HPD balks at whatever else you can find via Google.  It might also be of interest to you or another collector if you sell it.

Send as much info as you can:  model name/numbers, any graphics, engravings, etc., and vital statistics: barrel length, overall length, caliber, magazine capacity, finish, part numbers, ....   Include pictures of all sides, close-ups of identifying characteristics, and any other images you think would be useful. 

If the company gets enough information along with sharp, good quality photos, they may be able to issue you a letter stating year of manufacture among other interesting facts.

You never know.  It's worth a shot.  You might find it has a history you never knew about.   

GL!

Yes: that means you need to contact the seller, obtain the pistol info, then head to HPD and request a permit to acquire just like any other pistol.

As for documents, you will need your 03FFL,  the shipping / delivery receipt, a copy of the page which lists the firearm in the C&R booklet, and other standard paperwork for pistols. This is why you can't just ship it to yourself and then apply, because they will know exactly when you received the firearm.

When did HPD adopt this policy in regards to C&R pistols? This is news to me.

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I have never understood the logic behind the requirement to have HPD visually inspect the firearm for registration, at least for purchases from a dealer. Even in the gun control paradise of California all pistol registration is done at the point of sale, no visit to the police, no paperwork. HPD already requires the dealer to fax over the firearm information, information that is legally binding. You would think that would be enough, but another duplicative level of bureaucracy MUST be created.

It would be really nice if HPD got with the program like the other county police departments and at least allowed registration to occur at ALL police stations. If resource-strapped places like Maui, Big Island, and Kauai can do it, why can't Oahu?

Ok, just so that I'm straight on the procedure for acquiring C&R handguns and long guns, my understanding is that the following procedure applies:

C&R handguns

1. Obtain handgun info from online C&R seller
2.  Apply for Handgun permit from HPD;
3.  Acquire C&R Handgun from online C&R Seller once permit has been approved by HPD
4.  Bring all your crap down to HPD to register the C&R handgun within 72 hours of receiving same.

C&R Long Guns

1. Acquire C&R Long gun from online C&R seller
2. Bring all your crap down to HPD to register the C&R long gun inside of 72 hours of receiving same.

Does this sounds right?

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Sweet. Thanks for all the help! Should help streamline the process as much as possible

I understand that you can write to BATFE for a determination of whether a particular firearm is C&R if it doesn't appear in its list but short of that, how would you establish that a firearm is a curio or relic if the documents provided by the seller do not establish the manufactured date? The BATFE C&R lists my rifle but specifies a S/N range that my rifle falls outside of. I know my rifle was manufactured in 1937 and that the last production date is 1958 so my rifle qualifies as C & R. I chanced the registeration with HPD yesterday just to see what HPD would say.  HPD declined the registration and said it was my burden to establish that the rifle is C&R (which was expected) and asked me for verification of the manufacture date. HPD refused to tell me what would satisfy their concern short of a letter from BATFE but then started asking me for copies of the seller's invoice hoping that it would show the date, printouts from websites establishing the date and other possible sources of information. HPD indicated in so many words that all they are interested in is papering their file to justify the registration.

I understand that you can write to BATFE for a determination of whether a particular firearm is C&R if it doesn't appear in its list but short of that, how would you establish that a firearm is a curio or relic if the documents provided by the seller do not establish the manufactured date? The BATFE C&R lists my rifle but specifies a S/N range that my rifle falls outside of. I know my rifle was manufactured in 1937 and that the last production date is 1958 so my rifle qualifies as C & R. I chanced the registeration with HPD yesterday just to see what HPD would say.  HPD declined the registration and said it was my burden to establish that the rifle is C&R (which was expected) and asked me for verification of the manufacture date. HPD refused to tell me what would satisfy their concern short of a letter from BATFE but then started asking me for copies of the seller's invoice hoping that it would show the date, printouts from websites establishing the date and other possible sources of information. HPD indicated in so many words that all they are interested in is papering their file to justify the registration.

As I stated earlier here, the firearm manufacturer can often provide written documentation that their product was produced in a certain year/date range.  It may be quicker to go that route than the government path (BATFE).

Enjoy the paper chase!!

The only problem with getting information from the manufacturer for firearms 50+ years old is that the company itself might be long since out of business, and any potential successor company might not have those records available. That is the problem I am running into.

Anybody here know the phone number for Waffenfabrik Bern in Switzerland and can speak Swiss? 

Farknocker, are you trying to register a Swiss K31? I thought that was in the C&R list....

Love my K31, but ammo is hard to fine here in Hawaii. Only shop that I know of that carries ammo for it is WGS, and he's been out nearly all year. They are supposed to be getting a big shipment in a few weeks.

Anybody here know the phone number for Waffenfabrik Bern in Switzerland and can speak Swiss? 

Waffenfabrik Bern (English: Weapon Factory Bern), also known as W+F Bern, was an arms manufacturer in Bern, Switzerland and was a government-owned corporation.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Waffenfabrik-Bern/103119476394363#

 

Farknocker, are you trying to register a Swiss K31? I thought that was in the C&R list....

Love my K31, but ammo is hard to fine here in Hawaii. Only shop that I know of that carries ammo for it is WGS, and he's been out nearly all year. They are supposed to be getting a big shipment in a few weeks.

US Dept. of Justice, BATFE Firearms Curios or Relics List (2007 ed.) lists a "Swiss Schmidt Rubin, Model 1931/55 rifles, cal. 7.5mm, S/Ns 1001 to 5150". The supplments to the list (found on the BATFE's website) make no mention of the K31.


Funny thing is, I have yet to find anything on the web which suggests that rifles bearing S/Ns 1001 through 5150 exists.

See:

http://candrsenal.com/rifle-swiss-karabiner-1931/

http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/schmidt_rubin.html#manufacture

Huh, weird that it would have the serial number limitation. The Model 31/55 would be correct for a K31, which is just the common designator here in the US for the rifle. I got mine through AIM Surplus and had Al Mongeon do the transfer, so I didn't deal with the C&R side of the registration.

What's weirder is that there doesn't appear to be K31 bearing the S/Ns mentioned in the list.

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I was successful at registering a C&R Long Gun that did not appear on the BATFE 2007 Ed. of the Firearms Curio or Relics List (or any existing supplement for that matter) this morning.

This is what I presented to HPD:

1.  Hawaii Drivers License;
2.  Long gun permit;
3.  Signed copy of my C&R FFL Permit;
4.  Original bound Firearms C or R List (to show that long gun is listed but not in the specified S/N range);
5.  Copy of the sales invoice from the online seller which shows it's name and address as well as the manufacturer and importer of the firearm, it's year of manufacture, S/N, Model and Caliber;
6.  Entire copies of the webpages taken from the links I posted previously. The webpages show the serial numbers of the rifles produced and the year of manufacturer. Both webpages corroborated the manufactured year; and
7.  A copy of 27 CFR Sec. 478.11 (applicable section defining C & R to include firearms "manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;").

HPD returned all of the documents to me except my signed copy of the C&R FFL Permit because I told them they could keep it.  Note, when you purchase C&R firearms and provide the seller with a copy of the permit, you make a copy of the original permit and you sign the copy. The signed copy is then used. The original permit should remain unexecuted so that unsigned copies may be generated for later use.

The officers were cool and the whole process took 30 min.