This is Hawaii and lots of us grew up where it is tradition to not make waves. But where would that get us? More restrictions. Less freedom. I hope this policy can be corrected in the future.

Yeah sadly, I don't believe the organization forced the city give them written notice of why their permit was canceled (which is required).  I also don't think they have even contacted the director to even question the situation. I do hope this can be restored; however, for that to happen, it will take people calling, visiting, and demanding it -- which will probably never happen (the whole making waves thing).  I felt like crap about the whole thing, and was upset no one stood up.



*edit* added 1-2 things.

Don't worry about it Funtimes. Majority of the shooting community realize that to affect change, feet have to get stepped on in order to do so. Though inconvenient, the end product is normally mutual ground that is agreed to by both parties. No one side ever walks away from a negotiating table happy, but both sides are able to either retain or gain something of value from all of it. Yes it's a pain, but at the same time (some) people will have to realize that in order to make things "right", you have to push things to do so. So keep on going bud, the silent majority applaud and support you through these endeavors.

I would like to add that Funtimes was trying to increase the availability of the range for everyone and that the CYA, knee jerk response from the CIty was the problem. NOT Funtimes!!

I would furhter like to add that this action by the City was very likely calculated to create disention and infighting among "us" the pro-gun, pro-rights groups. Do not let this happen! Do not blame the guy who was fighting for everyone and instead blame the CIty and the politicians that made this decision. What we don't need is one "gun group" chastising and blaming another "gun group." This can only result in the fracture of the coalitions and relationships we already have to come apart when we need the unity and cohesiveness the most. DO NOT let the politicians use this as a means to reduce our effectiveness and squelsh our collective voices. We need to see the root cause of this and recognize the very possible manipulation of "us" by the powers that be for the purposes of stalling our movement.

We may not agree on everything, but we all seem to agree that things need to change. We will not be able to effect that change if we let "them" divide us, again. 

I would like to add that Funtimes was trying to increase the availability of the range for everyone and that the CYA, knee jerk response from the CIty was the problem. NOT Funtimes!!

I would furhter like to add that this action by the City was very likely calculated to create disention and infighting among "us" the pro-gun, pro-rights groups. Do not let this happen! Do not blame the guy who was fighting for everyone and instead blame the CIty and the politicians that made this decision. What we don't need is one "gun group" chastising and blaming another "gun group." This can only result in the fracture of the coalitions and relationships we already have to come apart when we need the unity and cohesiveness the most. DO NOT let the politicians use this as a means to reduce our effectiveness and squelsh our collective voices. We need to see the root cause of this and recognize the very possible manipulation of "us" by the powers that be for the purposes of stalling our movement.

We may not agree on everything, but we all seem to agree that things need to change. We will not be able to effect that change if we let "them" divide us, again.

QFE *edit* I stand by promoting the rights to all shooters in the state.

It seems this simple question of why the City shut down the night access is not so simple.  If I can read between the lines of the various posts it looks like the night time access was a victim of "friendly fire".  If that is the case, then there will be casualties to the fight that Funtimes mentions and people will have their opinions of what has now come to pass like the old saying, "hindsight is twenty-twenty".  Regardless of all that is said, the intent of this question was to learn and understand the situation so that if it is something we can do or not do, we can chose our course of action with knowledge and understanding to hopefully achieve our objective.  I think HiCarry hit the nail on the head in that we need to work together if we are to be effective no matter what the goal. And until we can do this we may fall folly to "win some and lose some" and at the end of the day we either made some progress or learned something from our setback.   Again, I appologize for my ignorance to the entire situation and will remain patient for the detailed explanation mentioned by Funtimes.   As for those who have nothing nice to say, it is a forum and you have your right to voice your opinion, much like those who have supportive advice which I believe more than proves the value of this forum to all of us.  My sincerest ALOHA to 2ahawaii for your hardwork to provide us this opportunity to exercise and share our rights and freedoms.

It seems this simple question of why the City shut down the night access is not so simple.  If I can read between the lines of the various posts it looks like the night time access was a victim of "friendly fire".  If that is the case, then there will be casualties to the fight that Funtimes mentions and people will have their opinions of what has now come to pass like the old saying, "hindsight is twenty-twenty".  Regardless of all that is said, the intent of this question was to learn and understand the situation so that if it is something we can do or not do, we can chose our course of action with knowledge and understanding to hopefully achieve our objective.  I think HiCarry hit the nail on the head in that we need to work together if we are to be effective no matter what the goal. And until we can do this we may fall folly to "win some and lose some" and at the end of the day we either made some progress or learned something from our setback.   Again, I appologize for my ignorance to the entire situation and will remain patient for the detailed explanation mentioned by Funtimes.   As for those who have nothing nice to say, it is a forum and you have your right to voice your opinion, much like those who have supportive advice which I believe more than proves the value of this forum to all of us.  My sincerest ALOHA to 2ahawaii for your hardwork to provide us this opportunity to exercise and share our rights and freedoms.

+1

I've been following this thread with interest, however I too am waiting for the written clarification in hopes of getting more information before I comment.  Just a quick question though, was the "organization" made aware of all the details before this was taken to the Parks/Range Director?  If so, were they okay with it or did they have reservations/warnings about what may ensue? 
As far as the City being discriminatory, I tend to disagree.  I am a City employee, albeit not at KHSC, and  I see examples of individuals, based on their demonstrated abilities and experience, be allowed to do things while others are not.  Discriminatory, no, discretionary, yes.
CYA?  Not all the City and County's fault given the multitude of incredibly stupid lawsuits directed against them by individuals injured while showing total lack of judgement.     

I can't directly speak for them to say MPPL was 'aware', but their organizer was present when some of these issues went down.   If I was a betting man, I would say that more details will follow in the next two-weeks.

Fair enough, thanks for the reply regarding MPPL's knowledge of what was going to happen.

When a certain group is not allowed to participate in activities that another is allowed to, and the prohibitted group is not allowed to demonstrate the required ability or skill set required to participate in said activity, that is discrimination, not discretion.

I acknowledge and agree for the most part with your statement regardng discrimination vs.discretion.  I believe we're on the same page in that regard, if not then perhaps my statement regarding those who demonstrate a required skill set and experience history being allowed greater latitude was not clear.  If that is the case, then I apoligize, I did not mean to offend anyone.     
As far as not being given the opportunity to demonstrate those skills, or not being given the opportunity to establish a history, I also agree is wrong.  I just didn't want to assume that is what had happened and was waiting for the clarification that was mentioned. 
There are instances however, when demonstrating competence and experience is best evaluated over a period of time.  These issues I felt would come out in the clarification, and as such, I was waiting until then to comment.  As I mentioned, if a certain party was denied the opportunity the establish the same experience that other groups have established, then I agree whole heartedly what happened was unfair.

mnpfamily - No offense taken, at least not by me. I think we're on the same page, so it all good. By the way, welcome.

Thanks for the welcome.  Its a tough situation we got here, hope everything works out for all involved in the end.

The City and County of Honolulu Parks and Recreation department held a meeting today with their corporate counsel, and many others, to discuss the Pre-litigation demand letter sent by the Hawaii Defense Foundation in response to the looming issues at the Kokohead Shooting Complex.  In an effort to both save time and lots of tax-payers money the Director made a great effort in meeting with me this evening to discuss the problems.  I left feeling good, and I believe he did as well.  So -- Not to get everyone's hopes up, but night shoots should be restored by the close of business this week.  Lots of additional changes (probably all for the good) to also follow for Kokohead Shooting Complex.

More information will follow.

"Like"

That's some potentially good news. I'm anxiously awaiting official word.

I hope that all of those who were so upset by the loss of the night shoots now realize that it was not Funtimes trying to make trouble. But rather his sincere effort to improve things for all shooters. Not only will we likely get the night shoots back, but more clubs will be able to take advantage of this opportunity under a much more transparent and fair process. And, there is also the possibility that this could lead to more good things.

I warned about letting this become a wedge issue among local "gun groups" and am still concerned that there will be some animosity out there. Those folks need to get over it. We are fortunate to have someone of Funtimes caliber (pun intended...) and dedication fighting the good fight for all of us. He doesn't need the impediments of the negative comments and attitudes. Instead, he needs our support and assistance. After many years of being involved in local "gun" politics, it still amazes me how difficult it is to get all of "us" working together and how easy it is for the politicians and others to cause strife and disention among "us." You'd think we'd learn by now.....

Personally, I'd like to thank Funtimes for all his (and his "crew's") hard work. I know he's trying to improve things here for everyone and I appreciate his dedication and applaud his recent success!

The City and County of Honolulu Parks and Recreation department held a meeting today with their corporate counsel, and many others, to discuss the Pre-litigation demand letter sent by the Hawaii Defense Foundation in response to the looming issues at the Kokohead Shooting Complex.  In an effort to both save time and lots of tax-payers money the Director made a great effort in meeting with me this evening to discuss the problems.  I left feeling good, and I believe he did as well.  So -- Not to get everyone's hopes up, but night shoots should be restored by the close of business this week.  Lots of additional changes (probably all for the good) to also follow for Kokohead Shooting Complex.

More information will follow.

Do you think it will open up the hours of operation? I'm so new to shooting on the island that I didn't realize the range isn't even open on Monday's & Tuesdays. ;-(

They are supposed to get another part time attendant at the facility, that should open the range by a few hours.