The first link seemed like a blog, or something like that. 

I read some of the Rolling Stone article, but it was too long.  That said, while there may be a lot of truth in what they wrote, I don't really consider RS a source that typically look to for information. 

I'm sure there are lots of things that I've bought that are part of, backed by, associated with, etc stuff that I don't agree with.  Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I've never really looked that hard into companies that I buy things from.  That said, if I find out things about a company that I don't like, I would have no problems looking elsewhere.  Not on the same level, but I will not buy anything from Cheaper Than Dirt.  I also tend to avoid Midway USA, but that's mostly because of their shipping rates and policies.  My choice where I spend my money and one of the freedoms that I enjoy. 

In this case, seems like there are a lot of allegations.  Seems like anyone with a keyboard and ability to post internet articles or blogs can offer stuff up as fact and seemingly without fear of consequences. 

About the gun itself, seems very similar to a Tavor. 

by the way, MDRs are cute. Just buy it.

While I am not sure if I would call it cute, but having a new gun around is always

The first link seemed like a blog, or something like that. 

I read some of the Rolling Stone article, but it was too long.  That said, while there may be a lot of truth in what they wrote, I don't really consider RS a source that typically look to for information. 

I'm sure there are lots of things that I've bought that are part of, backed by, associated with, etc stuff that I don't agree with.  Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I've never really looked that hard into companies that I buy things from.  That said, if I find out things about a company that I don't like, I would have no problems looking elsewhere.  Not on the same level, but I will not buy anything from Cheaper Than Dirt.  I also tend to avoid Midway USA, but that's mostly because of their shipping rates and policies.  My choice where I spend my money and one of the freedoms that I enjoy. 

In this case, seems like there are a lot of allegations.  Seems like anyone with a keyboard and ability to post internet articles or blogs can offer stuff up as fact and seemingly without fear of consequences. 

About the gun itself, seems very similar to a Tavor.

Well said. I think there's ample evidence against the Order, I'm just unsure as to the affiliation or lack thereof with desert tech.

They will have their chance to answer to the allegations.

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Why are you so defensive? You want a shiny new gun and are willing to turn a blind eye, go ahead. Stop trying to rationalize it to me. It's an issue to me so I will look into it further. You clearly have done zero research so if anything its you who are going by "feeling."

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I read their facebook and keep up with their updates. Saw the factory tour and workers.  Did not see any child labor or any crimes.  They seem to be good people supporting the vets etc.  I'm simply defending the company that I think is good. I've read the articles and they lack alot of proof.  Hell the wiki doesnt even link to a proper desert tech page.  From what I gather its all circumstance. Maybe a worker is a relative to someone in the Kingston clan who knows, who cares.  Maybe they are associated from funding cause I know they raised money to upgrade stuff.  What I have problem with is that your attitude is one of guilty before proven innocent.  All stemming off of some shitty tv show you watched.  Reminds me of retarded SJW's.

All stemming off of some shitty tv show you watched.  Reminds me of retarded SJW's.

really?

SJW - Had to google that one as well.   

Closest I could guess was SWV, but I don't see how that was anything close to the context here. . . 

SJW - Had to google that one as well.   

Closest I could guess was SWV, but I don't see how that was anything close to the context here. . . 

really?

Yeah Social Justice Worker.  "A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation."  People who complain about social justice on stuff they don't understand or have proof for.  Fits fairly well here

Yeah Social Justice Worker.  "A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation."  People who complain about social justice on stuff they don't understand or have proof for.  Fits fairly well here

really?

really?

Yus, though the term I'll admit is realitivlty loosely related here.  Was previously irritated about SJW's lol

Yus, though the term I'll admit is realitivlty loosely related here.  Was previously irritated about SJW's lol

you clearly do not get what i mean
let me spell it out for you
for someone who does what you do and spends as much time on the internet as you do, you must have heard at one point that you should not say something online that you are not willing to say to someone's face
so to make it clear, "really, are you willing to call S197 retarded, shallow, and 'not-well-thought-out' and a watcher of shitty videos to his face?"

you clearly do not get what i mean
let me spell it out for you
for someone who does what you do and spends as much time on the internet as you do, you must have heard at one point that you should not say something online that you are not willing to say to someone's face
so to make it clear, "really, are you willing to call S197 retarded, shallow, and 'not-well-thought-out' and a watcher of shitty videos to his face?"

Don't know him but yes internet and rl are separate.  The fact that the internet isn't personal the use of colorful language is much more acceptable.  It was more of a rash spout  of continued back and forth arguments and I got caught up in the heat of the moment. I ment nothing really use of the "retard".  It was ment to be understood in injunction with SJW  (I view 90% of actual SJW's as stupid people). I wasn't try to imply lack of intelligence of S197, whoever he is.  I do apologize for that though. As for saying 'not-well-thought-out' is true however, he even admitted it himself.  And yes AMC "documentaries" tend to be indeed shitty.

Don't know him but yes internet and rl are separate.  The fact that the internet isn't personal the use of colorful language is much more acceptable.

negative, this is a small, local forum, and many of us know each other personally

negative, this is a small, local forum, and many of us know each other personally

I do realize this, not quite used to it.  This is probably the smallest forum and most local I have ever been on.  Will try and refrain from such language.    My point still stands though.  Until proof is provided I would prefer slander of a particular company is wrong.  I still support Desert Tech until proven otherwise and this may of hit a bit close and might of ended up construed it as a more personal argument. 

negative, this is a small, local forum, and many of us know each other personally

True story


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They absolutely are. Both Desert Tactical Munitions DTM and Desert Tech are owned by members of the Kingston clan. The owner Nicholas Young should have the last name Kingston however it's the practice of polygamists in this family to take mothers maiden name to avoid the stigma associated in public with the name Kingston. He has no less than two women/wives that are known to have worked or do work in the company Nancy Young (wife on paper) and Christine Carmichael. His mother was married to, I believe it was Ortell or Elden (hence Nicholas' middle name) Kingston who has passed away but was high ranking from what I understand. They also own a cabin where a shooting range provides a place to stay between classes. The cabin was a place formerly used to punish disobedient wives who were not proper wives. Any financial investment decisions must go to the Kingston family who provides money for investments so yes the money comes from the Kingston family and back up to it.  The wives as well as many family members work for the company as well. As far as I'm concerned any business whose owners are polygamists and especially with family members who were indicted on government welfare fraud should not be given government contracts but yet one of those company has one! They also own a mining company that has broken numerous environmental laws causing fines and they own a plant in the SLC area. Do your research and you will find what I have said is 100% truth.  http://www.sltrib.com/home/3523346-155/federal-agents-across-utah-raid-offices  This plant is definitely owned by a Kingston and I believe it's kin (believe it's a cousin) to Nicholas Young owner on paper of Desert Tech,  formally DTA formally,  then Desert Tactical Arms. In regards to the Pakistani contract...don't portrait them as saints they put in for the contract and wanted it to begin with.  there is a back story that I'm not at liberty to explain but there is definitely more to it than what's been told to the news and public. More info can be found if you want or need more facts www.kingstonclan.com

I try as hard as possible to keep unrelated issues separate. Even if they were "child abusers" and even if that bothered me, that is not related to guns or their stance on gun rights. The negative way in which many people view polygamy and/or "child abuse" is the same way other people feel about guns. Note that I am putting "child abuse" in quotes, for multiple reasons.