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Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas (Read 74782 times)

Mr. Farknocker

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2017, 07:35:24 AM »
I pray for the victims and their families following this tragic event.

I'll just say what I think is what I think is in the back of the minds of those who are part of the firearms community: This type of an event is what I have feared most as it gives the gun control proponents an unbelievable boost in their quest to disarm America.  The tragic event  gives gun control proponents a platform to to argue against the sale and use of 1) suppressors (yes, I am familiar with Mrs. Clinton's ignorant twitter remarks); 2) "assault" or "assault-styled" weapons: 3) open/conceal carry; 4) magazine capacity limitation; 5) bump fire stock-like products; 6) ammunition; 7) registration; 8 ) background checks. The international community will criticize and even ridicule America for its gun control policies or lack thereof and there will probably be another massive push by the liberals in congress for more gun control.  The  usual counter arguments (2nd Amendment, resisting tyranny, self-defense, etc.) will be overshadowed by the strong emotions and outrage evoked by the sheer number of casualties, as many of these arguments will be seemingly inapplicable to what just occurred.

I have always believed that freedom comes with a price.  You cannot avoid tragic accidents or intentional crimes being committed with a firearm while enjoying the freedom to own and possess them. They go hand in hand. It's like owning and operating a motor vehicle. There have been and there will continue to be deadly vehicle accidents and even vehicle homicides so long as people are allowed to own and operate motor vehicles. The only question is: What level of casualties is America prepared to accept in exchange for the right to bear arms?

~F
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 10:41:46 AM by Mr. Farknocker »
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mangosteenqueen

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2017, 08:42:20 AM »
Funny thing is that pistol grips on rifles and other “assault-style features”  on rifles existed way before the AK and the Stg44 and AR10 prototypes. It just wasn’t popular.
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changemyoil66

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2017, 08:43:42 AM »
Anti-gun politicians already trying to take advantage:

NJ Senator saying "this is why NJ bans assault weapons. NV should do the same".  This idiot doesn't know full auto is already illegal, unless you're a tourist type gun range.

Hillary saying this is why the NRA should not allow "silencers".  Again idiot doesn't know suppressors already legal in NV, so if he wanted to, the shooter could have used one.
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oldfart

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2017, 09:04:30 AM »
What if this old guy had his room hijacked?
If I were a jihadist, that's what I would do.
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What, Me Worry?

mangosteenqueen

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2017, 09:06:44 AM »
They don’t know how hard it is to even get a machine gun, more or less able to even pay for it out of their own pocket change.
It all narrows down to motive and intention rather than bashing our rights to be relatively equal to the military.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2017, 09:33:32 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on October 02, 2017, 08:43:42 AM
Anti-gun politicians already trying to take advantage:

NJ Senator saying "this is why NJ bans assault weapons. NV should do the same".  This idiot doesn't know full auto is already illegal, unless you're a tourist type gun range.

Hillary saying this is why the NRA should not allow "silencers".  Again idiot doesn't know suppressors already legal in NV, so if he wanted to, the shooter could have used one.

It's not illegal, but it is tightly regulated and limited.  Import and manufacture of full-auto "machine guns" for the public market is prohibited. 

1) You need to be eligible to possess firearms in general.
2) You must live in a state where NFA items are permitted and machine guns, specifically, are legal to possess. (about 40 states)
3) The machine gun you wish to acquire must have been manufactured on or before May 19, 1986.

The first and only full-auto I've ever used was in Nevada.

That being the case, new guns have been manufactured to not accept/operate with full-auto trigger parts, to prevent ease of modification of semi-autos to full-auto. 

Existing machine guns are held mostly by collectors.  The prices are extremely high, so the average gun buyer can't afford the prices, and the supply of available machine guns for sale is very small in number.  Getting your hands on one in a state where it's legal takes time, money, and extra ATF scrutiny.

http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-concealed-weapon-machine-guns-all-legal-nevada-675310
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2017, 09:36:25 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on October 02, 2017, 09:04:30 AM
What if this old guy had his room hijacked?
If I were a jihadist, that's what I would do.

cnn reporting 300-500 yards from room to concert area
and that exit was the corner towards mandalay bay
shooter had a clear view of most of the seating area from 32nd floor
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2017, 09:38:04 AM »
Use of full-auto machine guns in the commission of crimes is extremely rare.  To focus on the rifle used and not on the person's motives/mental health is not going to prevent anything.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

rklapp

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2017, 10:07:23 AM »
Quote from: mangosteenqueen on October 02, 2017, 12:02:02 AM
I'm betting it's an AKM with a 75 round drum, makes sense to me since the rate of fire is slow and the string of fire seems to exceed something like a magpul D60 out of a fullauto AR.
Someone said that they needed a sniper on site (although I'm not seeing where that person got that information from). Perhaps this might trigger some changes to the typical officer's patrol rifle? 1-4 or 1-6x optics or addition of red dot magnifiers? The shooter was on the 32nd floor, so a magnified optic should make spotting and suppressing the shooter more easier (granted if they did spot the shooter in the first place)
(Edit: according to what I read on LA Times it was the SWAT team that stopped the shooter)
Unfortunately this might heat up all the anti-gun folks but we can back it up with information on how hard and expensive it is to get a class 3 firearm and how illegal it is to convert a semiauto without the license.
One of my clients was a resort in South Lake Tahoe. They took security serious because they were one of the only hotels in Mumbai that wasn't bombed because of the security they had. Every year for the New Years Eve party where they shut the street down to vehicles, they hire snipers on the roof in case of an active shooter. Doesn't seem like such a far fetched idea now...

I was at the Clark County Shooting Range when one of the ROs starting shooting a full auto clip that he borrowed. I asked if it was legal. He said they're there to enforce the range rules, not the law. Ah, Vegas...
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Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2017, 10:19:45 AM »
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2017, 12:52:07 PM »
My aunt was just in Vegas over the weekend.  She stayed at the Trop and she said she walked past this event on Fri night.  She flew back home Sat evening, so she wasn't there when this all went down.  She's a former volunteer EMT and I was thinking of reports of the many first responders that were killed.  Sounds like many were in attendance at the event, but not really clear either way (not that is really matters). 

I have a bunch of family and friends who now call Vegas home and thankfully they're all safe.
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ren

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2017, 01:26:06 PM »
Quote from: rklapp on October 02, 2017, 10:07:23 AM
One of my clients was a resort in South Lake Tahoe. They took security serious because they were one of the only hotels in Mumbai that wasn't bombed because of the security they had. Every year for the New Years Eve party where they shut the street down to vehicles, they hire snipers on the roof in case of an active shooter. Doesn't seem like such a far fetched idea now...

I was at the Clark County Shooting Range when one of the ROs starting shooting a full auto clip that he borrowed. I asked if it was legal. He said they're there to enforce the range rules, not the law. Ah, Vegas...

curious what kind of firearm used a full auto clip?
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Deeds Not Words

rklapp

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
Forgive my grammar. A full clip that was shot from a full auto AR. Sheesh...
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Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

mangosteenqueen

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2017, 01:51:17 PM »
Magazine, there a difference between that and a clip
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ren

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2017, 01:58:17 PM »
Quote from: rklapp on October 02, 2017, 01:35:30 PM
Forgive my grammar. A full clip that was shot from a full auto AR. Sheesh...
Most ARs I know use a magazine
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Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2017, 02:00:23 PM »
Quote from: mangosteenqueen on October 02, 2017, 01:51:17 PM
Magazine, there a difference between that and a clip

It's tough to break other people's bad habits.  I've stopped correcting anyone who uses the word "clips" incorrectly.  It's quibbling over terminology, which solves nothing.

JMHO.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2017, 02:04:50 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on October 02, 2017, 02:00:23 PM
It's tough to break other people's bad habits.  I've stopped correcting anyone who uses the word "clips" incorrectly.  It's quibbling over terminology, which solves nothing.

JMHO.

But yet when it suits your needs you do it all the time .
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"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2017, 02:54:33 PM »
Quote from: London808 on October 02, 2017, 02:04:50 PM
But yet when it suits your needs you do it all the time .


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2017, 03:10:19 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on October 02, 2017, 02:00:23 PM
It's tough to break other people's bad habits.  I've stopped correcting anyone who uses the word "clips" incorrectly.  It's quibbling over terminology, which solves nothing.

JMHO.

especially when they drink alcohol when reloading and clock loads huffing
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Deeds Not Words

Hunter1007

Re: Active Shooter(s) -- Las Vegas
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2017, 03:28:28 PM »
If you ever wanted a binary trigger you might wanna buy it now. :wacko:
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