OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban) (Read 115331 times)

rpoL98

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #280 on: April 04, 2018, 04:04:53 PM »
is this their new strategy, so then they can say "well, gee whiz, there was no opposing testimony..."

and probably only the anti-2A gun grabbers got the top secret confidential secret squirrel notification to submit supporting testimony.    this is how democracy works, in places like Venezuela, Syria, Iran, etc.

punaperson

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #281 on: April 04, 2018, 04:31:48 PM »
is this their new strategy, so then they can say "well, gee whiz, there was no opposing testimony..."

and probably only the anti-2A gun grabbers got the top secret confidential secret squirrel notification to submit supporting testimony.    this is how democracy works, in places like Venezuela, Syria, Iran, etc.
The committee got ONE (1) written testimony, and it was in favor of the bill. it was sent at
Submitted on: 4/4/2018 1:23:17 PM,
ten minutes after the email was sent out. I sent mine in at 1:56 PM, 5 minutes after seeing the email,  and it did not appear in the written testimony, and I'd be willing to bet no one showed up in person to testify, unless zippz was down the hall when the email went out and had the time to show up.

Inadvertent? Intentional? I'm sure they'd deny any deliberate effort to subvert the public testimony process, but I suspect that behind closed doors at least some of them say that the testimony is a waste of time because they are going to pass it no matter what.

zippz

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #282 on: April 04, 2018, 05:36:09 PM »
The committee got ONE (1) written testimony, and it was in favor of the bill. it was sent at
Submitted on: 4/4/2018 1:23:17 PM,
ten minutes after the email was sent out. I sent mine in at 1:56 PM, 5 minutes after seeing the email,  and it did not appear in the written testimony, and I'd be willing to bet no one showed up in person to testify, unless zippz was down the hall when the email went out and had the time to show up.

Inadvertent? Intentional? I'm sure they'd deny any deliberate effort to subvert the public testimony process, but I suspect that behind closed doors at least some of them say that the testimony is a waste of time because they are going to pass it no matter what.

Not me.  I'll find out more about this.

punaperson

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #283 on: April 04, 2018, 09:00:47 PM »
We won't know what the amendments are until they post the new version of the bill, usually 24 to 72 hours, or if someone calls the chair office and they are willing to tell you over the phone.

What's the point of voting for "Republicans" if they vote in solidarity with the Democrats on this kind of crap?

4/4/2018   H   The committees on JUD recommend that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes were as follows: 7 Ayes: Representative(s) Nishimoto, San Buenaventura, Brower, Morikawa, Takayama, McDermott, Thielen; Ayes with reservations: none; Noes: none; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) C. Lee.

z06psi

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #284 on: April 04, 2018, 10:52:40 PM »
This state government cares not what the people say.

There are no Conservatives within this state government either.

I have 42 days left.  Good luck folks.

zippz

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #285 on: April 05, 2018, 10:07:25 AM »
The committee got ONE (1) written testimony, and it was in favor of the bill. it was sent at
Submitted on: 4/4/2018 1:23:17 PM,
ten minutes after the email was sent out. I sent mine in at 1:56 PM, 5 minutes after seeing the email,  and it did not appear in the written testimony, and I'd be willing to bet no one showed up in person to testify, unless zippz was down the hall when the email went out and had the time to show up.

This is the rulebook on how the representatives run the committee hearings.  From what I understand there are laws that require public notice, but the legislature define those terms and can waive them.  I dunno, I gotta read the rulebook and HRS later.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/docs/HouseRules.pdf

punaperson

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #286 on: April 05, 2018, 12:22:15 PM »
According to this "rule" a chair or vice chair had to request from the Speaker to shorten the notice. From page 10:

11.5. Committee Meetings.

(1) Meetings, including decision-making sessions, of standing committees
shall be public. Notice shall be publicly posted or announced on the
House floor at least forty-eight hours prior to the meeting.
Except for
notices posted by the Committee on Finance, notice shall be posted
before 4:30 p.m. on the last day of the work week for a hearing to be
held on the following Monday or Tuesday. Notice of meetings may be
shortened at the discretion of the Speaker upon request on the House
floor by a chair or vice-chair and upon good cause shown.


* * * *
Maybe they did it the right way, but if they did I'm guessing they didn't do it 47 minutes before the meeting, which is when I got the email announcement of the hearing for the bill.

Maybe instead of being called the "rules" they should be called the "suggestions"?

zippz

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #287 on: April 05, 2018, 12:30:23 PM »
According to this "rule" a chair or vice chair had to request from the Speaker to shorten the notice. From page 10:

11.5. Committee Meetings.

(1) Meetings, including decision-making sessions, of standing committees
shall be public. Notice shall be publicly posted or announced on the
House floor at least forty-eight hours prior to the meeting.
Except for
notices posted by the Committee on Finance, notice shall be posted
before 4:30 p.m. on the last day of the work week for a hearing to be
held on the following Monday or Tuesday. Notice of meetings may be
shortened at the discretion of the Speaker upon request on the House
floor by a chair or vice-chair and upon good cause shown.


* * * *
Maybe they did it the right way, but if they did I'm guessing they didn't do it 47 minutes before the meeting, which is when I got the email announcement of the hearing for the bill.

Maybe instead of being called the "rules" they should be called the "suggestions"?

I don't see it as meeting the intent or an immediate problem to show good cause.

punaperson

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #288 on: April 05, 2018, 01:30:50 PM »
I don't see it as meeting the intent or an immediate problem to show good cause.
This is either a nightmare or a really really bad joke.

I called chair Nishimoto's office and asked 1. when was the request submitted to the house speaker on the house floor, 2. when was the request granted, and 3. what was the "good cause" shown?

Paraphrase: "We don't know anything about that. You should call the speakers office." As I explained my frustration about not being able to submit testimony, I was told, "Well "late" testimony was accepted and you can see it online". My response was yes, I see the late testimony, including mine, but obviously it was useless relative to the committee vote since the committee members voted on the bill prior to the testimony being available. You mean they're going to go back now and read it and then maybe recall the meeting and re-vote on the bill? Never happened and never will. So what's the point of having testimony? I was told, "Well, it will still be up for vote in the future and people can look at the testimony at that time". So why have any committee testimony at all, especially if the bill is scheduled in a manner that doesn't allow testimony prior to the vote? Why not just postpone testimony until the ultimate final vote? Ugh.

I then called speaker Saiki's office. Same questions. Yes, the judiciary chair did submit the request either the night before or that morning, and since those requests must be submitted prior to 11:30 AM the 1:43 PM notification sounded about right as to how things would likely play out in that scenario.

Now for the "good cause" part. This is classic. First I was told that I needed to call Nishimoto's office and ask them!!  :wtf: I told the Saiki phone rep that the Nishimoto phone rep told me to call Saiki. The phone rep agreed that that was a legitimate source of frustration. He then said he could only speculate that the reason given for the request to shorten public notice is that there is a deadline for "second decking" on Friday (the office rep at least  thought it was Friday), and thus all bills have to have been through committee by that point. I asked why, given that that date/deadline is and has been no secret, and is binding on ALL bills, how is it that this bill somehow escaped notice of all the sponsors and committee members and was left off the agenda when it obviously had to be on the agenda if it was going to move forward? No explanation for that. So the "explanation" amounts to: "Oops. We forgot. Or something."

That's how it works around here folks. Now suck it up and watch them further infringe your rights in any old way they choose. Rules, schmules.

zippz

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #289 on: April 05, 2018, 02:11:26 PM »
Might be able to submit a complaint so it wont go unnoticed.  They assume they can do this and no one will complain.

Not sure where to submit it.  Maybe ethics department.

Could also write an article in the paper.  Civil Beat has this:

What’s Up With All The Gut-And-Replace Trickery At The Legislature This Year?
http://www.civilbeat.org/2018/04/whats-up-with-all-the-gut-and-replace-trickery-at-the-legislature-this-year/

Pillow

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #290 on: April 05, 2018, 03:34:25 PM »
Send to pro-2a news outlets who would love to run the story. I'm trying to write an email to NRA-ILA about it but I'm not that well versed in how or exactly what they got away with.

My understanding is they only posted notice 45 minutes before the hearing was scheduled to begin so the public wasn't given a reasonable enough time frame to show up for public testimony?

punaperson

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #291 on: April 05, 2018, 03:42:12 PM »
Send to pro-2a news outlets who would love to run the story. I'm trying to write an email to NRA-ILA about it but I'm not that well versed in how or exactly what they got away with.

My understanding is they only posted notice 45 minutes before the hearing was scheduled to begin so the public wasn't given a reasonable enough time frame to show up for public testimony?
Certainly not time to show up unless you work in the building or next door. Their own "rules" require 48 hour notice to the public (testimony must be submitted prior to 24 hours prior to the meeting, otherwise it may be labeled "late" and not be available for the committee members voting on the bill that day). There is an exception process (to hear a bill with less than 48 hours public notice) that can be approved "upon good cause shown". Here, apparently, the "good cause shown" was "we forgot" (or something).

DesertRangerTycho

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #292 on: April 05, 2018, 05:23:06 PM »
Certainly not time to show up unless you work in the building or next door. Their own "rules" require 48 hour notice to the public (testimony must be submitted prior to 24 hours prior to the meeting, otherwise it may be labeled "late" and not be available for the committee members voting on the bill that day). There is an exception process (to hear a bill with less than 48 hours public notice) that can be approved "upon good cause shown". Here, apparently, the "good cause shown" was "we forgot" (or something).

What complete BULLSHIT!  These fuckers have got to go.  I will be visiting my reps tomorrow and demanding heads.  If these tyrants ignore their own rules then why bother follow laws at all?  They do not realize where this leads.

rpoL98

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #293 on: April 05, 2018, 06:10:53 PM »
our reps would probably only be worried if the complainer was a vegan PETA Iranian female, huh?

Direjackalope

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #294 on: April 05, 2018, 07:58:45 PM »
Let us know who to send our strongly worded email to. Shoot, I might even put pen to paper for this one.

Pillow

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #295 on: April 05, 2018, 08:13:18 PM »
Let some conservative news sources know.  I emailed NRA-ILA.  Best thing we can do is get the word out so they feel pressure rather than just ignoring our testimony and stuff. Here's some other people you can email:

https://www.nationalreview.com/contact-us/

https://www.dailywire.com/contact

https://contact.nra.org/contact-us.aspx

https://www.nraila.org/contact-nra-ila/

http://gunowners.net/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi?cmd=newticket

http://thefederalist.com/contributors/#contactus

Probably some better news outlets but I'm going to work on submitting tips to all of them tomorrow.

DesertRangerTycho

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #296 on: April 05, 2018, 08:52:34 PM »
Let some conservative news sources know.  I emailed NRA-ILA.  Best thing we can do is get the word out so they feel pressure rather than just ignoring our testimony and stuff. Here's some other people you can email:

https://www.nationalreview.com/contact-us/

https://www.dailywire.com/contact

https://contact.nra.org/contact-us.aspx

https://www.nraila.org/contact-nra-ila/

Great Idea!  I have contacted the Dailywire and HRA about this matter.  Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

http://gunowners.net/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi?cmd=newticket

http://thefederalist.com/contributors/#contactus

Probably some better news outlets but I'm going to work on submitting tips to all of them tomorrow.

zippz

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #297 on: April 06, 2018, 04:42:59 PM »
I just called saiki and nishimoto office.  They said the waiver was so the bill could make the final house vote in time.  Only the chair would know the actual reason.  I told them I wasn't pleased and to pass on the message to the reps.

I thought about doing a petition in Nishimotos district to scare him in the elections but he won unopposed in 2016 so he can do anything he wants.

tillamook

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #298 on: April 09, 2018, 01:34:39 PM »
Only the chair would know the actual reason.

we all know the actual reason.  But not that it matters.  They dont read or acknowledge the testimony anyway. 

1. Someone who isnt a legislator writes the bill.
2. The legislators put on some theater for a few weeks acting like they do something other than steal money from the public
3. They vote on the bill regardless of what it says in a pre-determined way 

The "testimony,"  the staff at their office, and their speaking points are all there to give you the illusion they are your representative.   

Even the quote from the above article is placation:
"It’s concerning because I think it damages the public faith in the process.” — Sen. Laura Thielen

That assumes there is public trust to damage in the first place.  What is the approval rating of congress?  10%?  Am I to think the approval of any state government is higher?  They are not worried about "damaging the public faith" when it is already at 90%



z06psi

Re: OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #299 on: April 09, 2018, 05:20:06 PM »
Will this bill get signed before May 12th?