25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC) (Read 6732 times)

macsak

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2018, 03:57:43 PM »
Caldwell, daughter and Ken Ito came by and shot with us. The daughter was apprehensive to shoot the AR and AK. After sorne coaching and encouragement, she seemed to enjoy it. Not quite a gun enthusiast, but not afraid of them anymore.

Had a good (albeit short) conversation with both Caldwell and Ito when I had a break for lunch.  Yeah, I sensed a genuine interest in being educated. I had seen both at SSF and other HRA events before, but ever really interacted with them that much before.

ken ito used to shoot with the cowboy shooters

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2018, 04:07:30 PM »
ken ito used to shoot with the cowboy shooters
Was he any good?   ;D

He’s shot at fun shoots a bunch of times, but I don’t remember if he was a good shooter.

On a different note, I heard an ad for SSF on 98.5 Sat morning. First time I heard a radio ad for the event. Thought I don’t really listen to music radio that much.

London808

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2018, 09:16:18 PM »
Mayor Caldwell came with his daughter on Saturday and they had a great time.  This isn't the first SSF that the Mayor attended but this time around they showed a lot more interest in being educated about firearms and learning more.  I applaud anyone that can open their mind to see the other side and avoid the politics involved.

Probably want to see what we think is fun so they can ban it.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

London808

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2018, 09:19:08 PM »
Took the family to shoot on Sunday, As always they have fun.

















"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2018, 04:25:17 PM »
Lessons Learned from SSF

The SSF is great for sharing shooting sports with those new to shooting to those who have been shooting for years.  It's also a great experience to test how guns perform after hundreds or in some cases thousands of rounds.  It's also great to observe shooting tendencies and how that translate on shooting performance.

Here are some observations from SSF.

1) It's amazing at how a little thing can total disable a firearm.  A .300 BLK rifle started acting up Saturday afternoon.  It started with not being able to put the gun on safe (AR lower), then the trigger reset was delayed.  In the process of a quick clean of the upper and lower, the trigger eventually got stuck with the hammer all the way down.  The hammer was cocked, trigger pulled and then pressed back down manually and it just froze after it bottomed out in the lower, before it could reset.  Eventually, we sprayed some Ballistol on the FCG and the hammer worked free.  We guessed some debris had been causing the issue, so I turned the lower over and sure enough, a piece of the primer fell out.  It was a sort of star shaped piece of metal. 

2) Not sure why, but new shooters (and some experienced shooters) have a tendency to lean back from the waist when shooting.  It's something we deal with regularly with new shooters who take the basic pistol class and it's something that usually is quite easily corrected.  That said, it always seems like when you try to get people to "lean forward" when shooting, they inevitably just take a step forward.  :facepalm:  Then there are some where you are able to get them into a more forward leaning position, to have them gradually revert to the leaning back position.  Is that more comfortable or something? 

3) I spent most of my time at the SSF on the AR and AK lines.  One thing I noticed was how much slower the reciprocating bolt of the SCAR moved compared to the AR and AK.  I have read about the heavy bolt of the SCAR and something about it is supposed to help with functioning when the bolt gets dirty.  Something about the extra mass is supposed to help the bolt go back into battery in a dirty gun.  Not sure if that's true, but that's what I found in my research.  Anyways, I could literally see daylight each time the SCAR bolt reciprocated, whereas the AR and AK seemed to be much faster.  Even faster yet was the speed of the Sig 556R/7.62x39 bolt.  That got me thinking about cyclic rates for the auto versions and I think the AK and SCAR are both listed as 600 rpm.  With the SCAR bolt seeming to move much slower than the AK bolt in semi-auto, that got me wondering how different they are in full-auto.

4) Knew that TV and video games influence what folks want to try at the SSF.  This year was no exception.  Seemed like the SCAR was a really popular gun.  In speaking with some of the loaders (two girls actually), they mentioned that they knew of the SCAR from from first person shooter game and something about that the SCAR is the most powerful gun available on that game.  Anyways, the SCAR had spurts of almost constant firing that the handguard got too hot for folks to handle without gloves.  Hell, there were points where the gun was so hot that it was even uncomfortable to handle with gloves on.  I was wearing Camelbak gloves similar to the basic Mechanix gloves. 

5) The AKs in my line did NOT like brass cased 7.62x39.  I believe it was all factory ammo.  Anyways, they would have a bunch of misfeeds that seemed like the tip of the bullet head (Mac?) bent and the round was left stuck in an almost L-shape.  The shape of the deformed round also left the sides of the case rim torn.  I asked multiple folks if those were reloads and they all said it was supposed to be factory ammo.  Not sure which manufacturer though.  For most of the AK ammo, it was Red Army.  That stuff functioned flawlessly in all of the AKs on my table and didn't hear of any problems with other AKs.  Can't speak to accuracy though.

6) There are many folks who attend the SSF with what they think is an open mind, but they are really closed minded in many regards.  To the point where they are so frozen with fear that they can't get themselves to shoot an AR without shaking in fear.  Most of them calm down quickly after the first shot and they realize the recoil isn't much at all.  But there are so many that have the "I can't" stuck in their mind. 

7) Over the course of two days, many of these guns take a beating.  I'm not one to really do torture tests on my firearms, but some of these guns really get beat on.  Most of the ARs and AKs ran really well.  One was actually quite dry and we didn't notice until we were doing some quick cleaning Saturday evening in preparation for Sunday.  I was actually this particular AR hadn't showed any ill effects.  The whole BCG was dry, dry, dry. 

8) The male ego is a interesting thing.  Many times I came across the "I know what I'm doing" or "I got this" macho guy.  One insisted that he load the AR himself.  Ok.  As long as you keep muzzle pointed down range and otherwise safe, rock on.  So I gave him the mag.  He insert into the magwell and sent the bolt home.  First round, trigger click and mag fell to the ground.  He tried again.  Inserted the mag and pulled the charging handle.  First round, click.  I think he didn't pull the charging handle all the way back.  At least he seated the mag.  Then there was a family of two daughters, wife and husband.  They shot in the order of youngest to oldest with the guy shooting last.  Both girls and wife had never shot before so I helped them get setup, find red dot, etc.  They proceeded to get good hits.  Then when it came time for the husband, he gave me the "I got it" thing.  Ok, right on.  I see him shoulder the gun and it looks like he's aiming about 2 feet above the target rack.  I mention something and he gives me a stink eye and another "I got it".  Ok, right on.  He then proceeds to send all 10 rounds into the berm above the target rack.  After each shot, he's prairie dogging and looking to see where his hits were.  Couldn't use dot being off as his daughters had been shooting well.  When he was done, his daughter asked him how he did and he muttered a sheepish "it was fun". 

zippz

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2018, 07:56:27 PM »
2) Not sure why, but new shooters (and some experienced shooters) have a tendency to lean back from the waist when shooting.  It's something we deal with regularly with new shooters who take the basic pistol class and it's something that usually is quite easily corrected.  That said, it always seems like when you try to get people to "lean forward" when shooting, they inevitably just take a step forward.  :facepalm:  Then there are some where you are able to get them into a more forward leaning position, to have them gradually revert to the leaning back position.  Is that more comfortable or something? 

That's how you regularly stand.  Flat on both feet, balanced center of gravity- arms out, torso back.

3) I spent most of my time at the SSF on the AR and AK lines.  One thing I noticed was how much slower the reciprocating bolt of the SCAR moved compared to the AR and AK.  I have read about the heavy bolt of the SCAR and something about it is supposed to help with functioning when the bolt gets dirty.  Something about the extra mass is supposed to help the bolt go back into battery in a dirty gun.  Not sure if that's true, but that's what I found in my research.  Anyways, I could literally see daylight each time the SCAR bolt reciprocated, whereas the AR and AK seemed to be much faster.  Even faster yet was the speed of the Sig 556R/7.62x39 bolt.  That got me thinking about cyclic rates for the auto versions and I think the AK and SCAR are both listed as 600 rpm.  With the SCAR bolt seeming to move much slower than the AK bolt in semi-auto, that got me wondering how different they are in full-auto.

SCAR is quoted at 600 rnds/min.  Most rifles and machine guns have similar rates of fire for controlability. 

6) There are many folks who attend the SSF with what they think is an open mind, but they are really closed minded in many regards.  To the point where they are so frozen with fear that they can't get themselves to shoot an AR without shaking in fear.  Most of them calm down quickly after the first shot and they realize the recoil isn't much at all.  But there are so many that have the "I can't" stuck in their mind. 

I didn't have much issues with this.  Had a couple people ask but was a non-issue.

6)
8) The male ego is a interesting thing.

Reminds me of the carnival game at the 50th state fair, where you toss the baseball at the 3 milk cans.  A younger guy with his girlfriend did the whole baseball windup pitch and missed  everything 5 times.  I walked up with one ball and did a simple slow throw like I didn't care and knocked all 3 cans out.   That was so funny when I was celebrating next to him.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

GlockNewb

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2018, 07:58:07 PM »

2) Not sure why, but new shooters (and some experienced shooters) have a tendency to lean back from the waist when shooting.  It's something we deal with regularly with new shooters who take the basic pistol class and it's something that usually is quite easily corrected.  That said, it always seems like when you try to get people to "lean forward" when shooting, they inevitably just take a step forward.  :facepalm:  Then there are some where you are able to get them into a more forward leaning position, to have them gradually revert to the leaning back position.  Is that more comfortable or something? 


Would it be better to ask them to first "bend the knees" then add further corrections (lean forward, widen stance, etc.)? I brought two groups of people to the SSF, one on each day, and took pictures for all of them. My observation: most brought the weapon to ready with straight knees and fired from that stance. From the static position pre-firing, I think leaning back helps to balance the extra weight of the pistol/rifle in front. "Lean forward" takes them off balance, so the step forward is a common instinct. If their knees were bent, shooters could be better balanced to handle weight shifts and recoil.
"Fast is slow, slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2018, 08:55:23 PM »
That's how you regularly stand.  Flat on both feet, balanced center of gravity- arms out, torso back.

Your natural stance is torso back?

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2018, 09:02:04 PM »


1) SCAR is quoted at 600 rnds/min.  Most rifles and machine guns have similar rates of fire for controlability. 

2) I didn't have much issues with this.  Had a couple people ask but was a non-issue.

3) Reminds me of the carnival game at the 50th state fair, where you toss the baseball at the 3 milk cans.  A younger guy with his girlfriend did the whole baseball windup pitch and missed  everything 5 times.  I walked up with one ball and did a simple slow throw like I didn't care and knocked all 3 cans out.   That was so funny when I was celebrating next to him.
1) Yes, that’s what I read on the interwebs too. My observation was that the cycling of the SCAR bolt was much slower than the AK bolt. At least in semi-auto. I could see a distinct moment of daylight when the SCAR bolt cycled. The AK was much faster and the Sig even more so. The Sig was so fast I couldn’t even notice the ejection.

2) You were on handguns, right?

3) You must be a mathematical genius or something like that.

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2018, 09:05:29 PM »
Would it be better to ask them to first "bend the knees" then add further corrections (lean forward, widen stance, etc.)? I brought two groups of people to the SSF, one on each day, and took pictures for all of them. My observation: most brought the weapon to ready with straight knees and fired from that stance. From the static position pre-firing, I think leaning back helps to balance the extra weight of the pistol/rifle in front. "Lean forward" takes them off balance, so the step forward is a common instinct. If their knees were bent, shooters could be better balanced to handle weight shifts and recoil.
To clarify, in general, the goal of SSF is to get folks to shoot as many firearms as we can. Not really meant for instruction. Yes, we spend more time with folks when things are slower, but not as much when it’s crazy. As long as they are safe, all good.

For the lean forward thing, I’m generally not touching them. I say to lean forward and most take a step forward. If I see them with rearward lean, I’ll show them what I mean by a forward lean. But many don’t. I assume many are so focused on shooting that they aren’t really listening to much other than that.

ren

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2018, 09:13:41 PM »
stance depends on what kind of shooting
Highpower standing:


She's a US Palma Team member - knows a "bit" about shooting

Ranger from 75th



Bullseye pistol stance:


For target shooting, the most productive piece of advice was NOT to stand shoulder width apart. Stand comfortably.
Of course every guy is a gun expert when females are around. Peacock feathers get displayed, chests are pushed out.  Stories of being a high speed operator on a classified moon mission come out.
How you express your ego is the factor in learning
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:26:09 AM by ren »

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2018, 09:18:30 PM »
stance depends on what kind of shooting
Highpower standing:


She's a US Palma Team member - knows a "bit" about shooting




Bullseye pistol stance:


For target shooting, the most productive piece of advice was NOT to stand shoulder width apart. Stand comfortably.
Ahh. Yeah, I get that kind of stance. Get some air rifle team kids come through and then shoot like that. Good to go!

I’m more talking more squared off and leaning back. I assume it’s prob due to trying to balance the weight of the gun.

zippz

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2018, 09:18:54 PM »
Your natural stance is torso back?

If your arms are out forward carrying something, yes.

Like this...


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 09:55:00 PM by zippz »
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

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changemyoil66

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2018, 10:29:32 AM »
My father was one of those lean backers with the shotty.  I explained the leaning forward with the "getting pushed by someone" reference.  And the fact that Mrs. Change can shoot it like a champ.  Then he was like "lets try this again, LEEEROOOYYY JENNNKINNNSS".  But this wasn't the time to really teach property technique.  I just didn't want him to be afraid of the shotty.  I didn't fix any other platform techniques.

For the ego, I've been to many carnivals and scene this. Probably did it myself when I was 15 (young, dumb, full of cum).  Then as I got older, I didn't care. Just tossed it.  But I was a baseball player also so that added fuel to the fire.  But this is why also I have to remind myself when talking instruction or listening to advise "ears open, mouth shut" philosophy.

drck1000

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2018, 10:51:34 AM »
My father was one of those lean backers with the shotty.  I explained the leaning forward with the "getting pushed by someone" reference.  And the fact that Mrs. Change can shoot it like a champ.  Then he was like "lets try this again, LEEEROOOYYY JENNNKINNNSS".  But this wasn't the time to really teach property technique.  I just didn't want him to be afraid of the shotty.  I didn't fix any other platform techniques.

For the ego, I've been to many carnivals and scene this. Probably did it myself when I was 15 (young, dumb, full of cum).  Then as I got older, I didn't care. Just tossed it.  But I was a baseball player also so that added fuel to the fire.  But this is why also I have to remind myself when talking instruction or listening to advise "ears open, mouth shut" philosophy.
Yeah, the shotty is one gun where how the stock is placed in the shoulder as well as stance is important to not getting pushed around or having to be beat up if it can be avoided.  I had done the defensive shotguns in the past and the pumps can beat up people a little when they don't have a good control of the stock into their shoulder. 

dogman

Re: 25th Annual Shooting Sports Fair (June 16 & 17 at KHSC)
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2018, 08:55:56 PM »
Shooting Sports Fair 2019 will not be held on Father's Day weekend . . . will be weekend of July 20 & 21.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 07:44:47 PM by dogman »