Not only no but hell no, Nyet, Areinai!

Karera wa watashi no o shiri ni kisu suru koto ga dekimasu! 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3367355

That's beautiful, with all the hype people have put on 3d printers and manufacturing firearms, I never really thought about the use for printing mags. And in theory, you would only have to print the housing, because I know companies like magpul, etc. Make lots with the spring and follower to svc mags.

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We got some infiltrators we need to find out Who voted yes!

We got some infiltrators we need to find out Who voted yes!

The HPD troll comes to mind..................

How come no mo one maybe option.

No sir, every pistol version of a rifle are required to have welded magazines so our legal magazines are incapable of being inserted into them.

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Not true, that only applies to semi-automatic pistols since only semi-auto pistols fall under the assault pistol law. So a pump action AR pistol, for example, would mean that AR15 magazines are illegal with or without the law.

via Imgflip Meme Generatorj

No sir, every pistol version of a rifle are required to have welded magazines so our legal magazines are incapable of being inserted into them.

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I'm still trying to find where it says they have to be welded. Can't find anywhere in in HRS134 or in COH. The word is detachable, not welded.
But it doesn't matter anyway. HPD makes up the rules as the go. Like using tape measure on the outside of the rifle to measure a barrel

I'm still trying to find where it says they have to be welded. Can't find anywhere in in HRS134 or in COH. The word is detachable, not welded.
But it doesn't matter anyway. HPD makes up the rules as the go. Like using tape measure on the outside of the rifle to measure a barrel

It dosnt say welded specifically. Epoxy is also another option.

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I'm still trying to find where it says they have to be welded. Can't find anywhere in in HRS134 or in COH. The word is detachable, not welded.
But it doesn't matter anyway. HPD makes up the rules as the go. Like using tape measure on the outside of the rifle to measure a barrel

It is an interpretation of what detachable would be. As I understand it, the logic is that if the change was easily reversible then it wouldn't qualify. So a weld would be harder to reverse and thus more permanent than something like say a set screw.

As far as tape measure to measure a barrel length, the HRS doesn't specify specifically how to measure a barrel so what they were doing on the video or picture wasn't really wrong legally, it just wasn't inline with how other groups measure barrels.

It dosnt say welded specifically. Epoxy is also another option.

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Maybe something has changed but a while back I have heard others say epoxy attachment was denied

It is an interpretation of what detachable would be. As I understand it, the logic is that if the change was easily reversible then it wouldn't qualify. So a weld would be harder to reverse and thus more permanent than something like say a set screw.

As far as tape measure to measure a barrel length, the HRS doesn't specify specifically how to measure a barrel so what they were doing on the video or picture wasn't really wrong legally, it just wasn't inline with how other groups measure barrels.

Wrong.

The only "group" that can specify how to measure barrel length is the BATFE.  HPD needs to do the basics correctly, or nor at all.

The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to
the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of
attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod
into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the
furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and
measured.

If we needed every single detail on how to do everything written in some HRS, the laws would deforest the entire Big Island!

So, in short, HPD is doing it wrong.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download

I'm still trying to find where it says they have to be welded. Can't find anywhere in in HRS134 or in COH. The word is detachable, not welded.
But it doesn't matter anyway. HPD makes up the rules as the go. Like using tape measure on the outside of the rifle to measure a barrel

It dosnt say welded specifically. Epoxy is also another option.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It is an interpretation of what detachable would be. As I understand it, the logic is that if the change was easily reversible then it wouldn't qualify. So a weld would be harder to reverse and thus more permanent than something like say a set screw.

As far as tape measure to measure a barrel length, the HRS doesn't specify specifically how to measure a barrel so what they were doing on the video or picture wasn't really wrong legally, it just wasn't inline with how other groups measure barrels.

LOGIC plays no part in law interpretation.

Last time I checked with Capt Nilsen, and his quote in RED is regarding assault pistols is as follows:

1.       Is an “assault pistol” without a detachable magazine legal to possess in the State of Hawaii?

No.  By definition in 134-1, assault pistol accepts a detachable magazine.

2.       Is a single shot, not semiautomatic, “assault pistol” with a detachable magazine legal to possess in the State of Hawaii?

Do not understand the question.  A single shot weapon will not have a detachable magazine.  Only a bolt action weapon will fire single shot from a detachable magazine and by definition in 134-1 is not a semiautomatic firearm, which is required to meet the requirements to be an assault pistol.   

3.       Does the State of Hawaii have a legal definition of a detachable magazine, as it is not listed in HRS 134-1?

No.  I am not aware of any.

4.       If the State of Hawaii does not have a definition, would the legal definition from the State of California , also in the 9th Circuit, or Maryland be an acceptable definition?

California and Maryland definitions of “detachable magazine” are included below. Does the State of Hawaii agree with these definitions?

a.       California, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines. ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

b.       Maryland, MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-301: Definitions - Detachable magazine: (f) “Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from a firearm without requiring disassembly of the firearm action or without the use of a tool, including a bullet or cartridge.

Not the Honolulu Police Department’s place to interpret legislative intent / definition.  Would refer this question to the Attorney General’s Office.  HRS 134-8 just uses the term detachable magazine with no further explanation or definition.

This is the heart of the matter. HPD does not interpret the law so they are making it up to suit their own. That itself is the "definition" of Banana Republic or Dictatorship.
And I did contact the AG and they referred me back to HPD, so it is a closed loop that keeps going round and round but never answering the question.

Mr. X,


As far as I know, the legislature has not provided a more complete or thorough definition of “detachable magazine” than the one you have already located in the Hawaii Revised Statutes.

Until the legislature amends the law to provide a more comprehensive definition as to what constitutes a “detachable magazine”, the Department of the Attorney General is not in a position to adopt or ratify a definition for that term.  I apologize if this response is unhelpful, however, we are constrained by the law and cannot unilaterally accept or reject definitions like the one you provided.

You may wish to pursue your prior inquiry with the Honolulu Police Department (assuming that you reside in Honolulu and intend to possess the fire-arm within their jurisdiction).  I noted in your earlier e-mail a section wherein you sought clarification regarding how HPD determines if a magazine is detachable.  I am not sure HPD will be responsive to further inquiries, however, they may be the agency best positioned to address your questions – particularly your overarching question – how can I make sure a particular fire-arm is legal to possess or own.

Your diligence in making sure you are within the law before possessing a fire-arm is laudable and I appreciate your efforts.  I hope you are able to reach a satisfactory determination.

With regards,
 

Kory W. Young
Deputy Attorney General
Criminal Justice Division
333 Queen Street, Suite 200
Honolulu, Hawaii  96813

Legally they cannot tell you how to fix a magazine. And if they don't have a definition, then the onus is on them to get one from the AG, not you to prove it's not. If you have to use a tool or other implement to remove a magazine it is not detachable. Period. That has been determined and defined in multiple jurisdictions across the country. The barrel, pistol grip, and buffer tube are removable from your AR, but not detachable. You have to use a tool.

Anything they make you do beyond using a bullet button or the MEAN ARMS MA Lock to fix your magazine is illegal on their end. The other legal option is to have Battle Arms Development Fixed Magazine Conversion (or similar) where you must break the action open to remove the magazine. You have now fixed the magazine so the only way it can be removed is with a tool or breaking the action. Now we know in practice they will do whatever they want to deprive you of your rights.

Mean Arms https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-lock

Battle Arms https://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/shop/product/bad-mrb-15-ar-15-california-compliant-fixed-magazine-conversion-3207

A few guys did write to HPD and the AG for the definition of a fixed mag.  Both request were denied and told to see a lawyer. #facepalm.  They want to keep this as speculation so they can enforce it at will.

A few guys did write to HPD and the AG for the definition of a fixed mag.  Both request were denied and told to see a lawyer. #facepalm.  They want to keep this as speculation so they can enforce it at will.

Yup... Been there done that, have a Tshirt that says "no in Hawaii"

A few guys did write to HPD and the AG for the definition of a fixed mag.  Both request were denied and told to see a lawyer. #facepalm.  They want to keep this as speculation so they can enforce it at will.

that's what happens when we vote in a bunch of lawyers. They will pass legislation and establish procedures to benefit their own industry. This explains the #MeToo movement and legislation to extend statute of limitations to decades.

Not perfect but...
HiFiCo If you want the original, PM me and I'll send you the artwork in CDR, EPS or AI.

No!
I obey 10 laws, they are simple
and easy for everyone to understand.
Law is supposed to be simple so you can easily
comply.
Anything beyond that I repudiate.

That graphic is beautiful