I don't understand the "stopjack" meme.  Explanation?

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The StopJack emoticon looks like this:   

It's SUPPOSED to be used to gently nudge posters to try and make their comments relevant to the thread without taking it off on a tangent into Crazytown.   

Unfortunately, some think it's supposed to give them a "get out of shit free" card after posting off-topic BS, so they can then appear to be helping to KEEP others on topic.  It's like spitting in someones face, then holding up a sign that says "NO SPITTING".   

Some people don't give a crap.  Netiquette used to be a thing.   

 

Snowflapp,
Again nothing on topic.

 

China won’t crash our economy because they need us.
If they did Kuleana, Hawaii would be fawked.
Can you you imagine if they, the U.S., demo’ all the condo’s and hotels on a pullout,

Could China hit us with ICBM’s?
 we’re a pretty small target far far away?

Subs?

China won’t crash our economy because they need us.
If they did Kuleana, Hawaii would be fawked.
Can you you imagine if they, the U.S., demo’ all the condo’s and hotels on a pullout,

Totally correct Hound.

My posts of what non-military options China could do against the US empire was in response to the question what would war between China and America look like and what it would mean for Hawaii.  Having said that, China has no desire to go to war with anyone, but has a number of military and non-military options at its disposal to defend itself, in addition to their own nuclear arsenal.  If anything, it is the US empire that is looking for a fight with China or anyone else it can geopolitically or militarily provoke.

As everyone should know by now, America's economy is in a depression that is currently visibly hidden from the World by its trillion dollar money printing scam.  The leaders of the US empire know that this ruse can't go on forever and that an economic collapse caused by the resulting hyperinflation is on its way.  Hence, the power elite, ultrawealthy, etc. is currently trying to play their last trump card, WAR.  Unfortunately for the US empire, it no longer has the raw materials, manufacturing base, or stable economy to persecute a non-nuclear war with a military peer.  Far worse, it does not have a united populace that are willing to make the personal sacrifices like it had during the imperial wars of its past.  Hence, that is why I stated my prediction that should the US engage in a major war with countries like China or Russia, barring nuclear holocaust, not only will the US empire lose, but balkanize into smaller states based on a combination of race, ethnicity, and/or political/economic ideology before such war's conclusion.

Everyone needs to remember what happened to the Russian empire when they foolishly believed entering WWI would solve its own domestic problems.  Likewise, the sudden fall of the Soviet Union is another case study how empires can collapse on its own, despite its military might.

If three gorges dam collapses killing potentially millions of Chinese citizens that will definitely take the wind out of their sales. CCP is not very popular at the moment, and might be facing their own insurrection shortly.

Trumps trade war is a real boon for domestic manufacturers.Not a total sweetheart deal but at least we are back on track after the free trade disasters that drove out working class to destitution while rewarding wealthy speculators.

If three gorges dam collapses killing potentially millions of Chinese citizens that will definitely take the wind out of their sales.

Definitely right with the three gorges dam.  However, that will not stop their manufacturing prowess and with a population of over 1 billion, its labor force could absorb such a huge loss of life rather quickly.

CCP is not very popular at the moment, and might be facing their own insurrection shortly.

Also true, but the US is more likely to fall into a civil war at this point, more so, than China.

Trumps trade war is a real boon for domestic manufacturers. Not a total sweetheart deal but at least we are back on track after the free trade disasters that drove out working class to destitution while rewarding wealthy speculators.

Trump's attempt of bringing back domestic manufacturing is the correct move that is a little to late.  His initiatives will end once he leaves office whether in 2020 or 2024.  America's college educated youth have no desire or want a career of manual labor.  The ultrawealthy and their corporations know all of this and those are the reasons they have no intentions to return to US manufacturing where cheaper labor can always be exploited everywhere else.

1, Trump's attempt of bringing back domestic manufacturing is the correct move that is a little to late.  His initiatives will end once he leaves office whether in 2020 or 2024. 

2. America's college educated youth have no desire or want a career of manual labor. 

3.The ultrawealthy and their corporations know all of this and those are the reasons they have no intentions to return to US manufacturing where cheaper labor can always be exploited everywhere else.

1. That is a very bold prediction about the future which assumes it is even possible to get "back on track"

2. Colleges are dying now that people realize that they are dangerous loan sharking traps and the jobs they promise no longer exist. Also I take issue with the sweeping generalization that people do not enjoy manual labor. On the contrary many people find it deeply satisfying especially compared with many of todays soul crushing office careers where experience is not valued and they toss you out as soon as someone cheaper (or more morally flexible) comes along.

3. The conditions for the previous arrangement no longer exist, and now populist rage is starting to spill over in a similar way that it did before the New Deal.


In my opinion your conclusions are influenced by wishful thinking that the status quo will continue until some line is crossed and everything falls apart. It is not a crime to want America to fail catastrophically so that you can gloat over the ashes and take comfort that historical crimes have finally been avenged, but that outlook ignores the greater context of history. As far as oppressive nations go you could do much, much worse than the USA, and if you think the Balkinization process will somehow usher in a new era of peace and stability then maybe it is time to visit the Balkans and their mass grave sites.

1. That is a very bold prediction about the future which assumes it is even possible to get "back on track"

2. Colleges are dying now that people realize that they are dangerous loan sharking traps and the jobs they promise no longer exist. Also I take issue with the sweeping generalization that people do not enjoy manual labor. On the contrary many people find it deeply satisfying especially compared with many of todays soul crushing office careers where experience is not valued and they toss you out as soon as someone cheaper (or more morally flexible) comes along.

3. The conditions for the previous arrangement no longer exist, and now populist rage is starting to spill over in a similar way that it did before the New Deal.


In my opinion your conclusions are influenced by wishful thinking that the status quo will continue until some line is crossed and everything falls apart. It is not a crime to want America to fail catastrophically so that you can gloat over the ashes and take comfort that historical crimes have finally been avenged, but that outlook ignores the greater context of history. As far as oppressive nations go you could do much, much worse than the USA, and if you think the Balkinization process will somehow usher in a new era of peace and stability then maybe it is time to visit the Balkans and their mass grave sites.

I agree. much sense you bring to thread

As for Hawaii, it would return to the nation state that it once was prior to 1898.

And then there is this gem. Calling it wishful thinking is a stretch because it is not even a complete thought. Cannot say I am the biggest fan of the FBI but if it was not for the feds we would be completely disarmed except for Kealoha and his goons as well as Miske and other crime syndicates that they favored. The sovereignty activists  have a point about he legality of the overthrow, but I have not met one yet who I have confidence that could effectively address Hawaii's corruption culture. Thanks to our shitty education system we have selectively bred generations of self-serving thugs who have been taught to look out for their own at the expense of everyone else, and this is ESPECIALLY evident in the Fedrec movement. Cultural issues take a long time to change, and in the meantime despite all their faults we should consider ourselves very lucky to have the Feds as a stabilizing force. If they were to suddenly withdraw I am fairly confident these islands would descent into Wild West lawlessness overnight.

1. That is a very bold prediction about the future which assumes it is even possible to get "back on track"

To be honest, I do not see America ever getting back on track.  Many Americans economists, albeit not the ones who sell out, have been advocating the things necessary for the US to maintain their own self-sufficiency, but the ultrawealthy will not sacrifice their profits that they can enjoy by not utilizing the American workforce.

2. Colleges are dying now that people realize that they are dangerous loan sharking traps and the jobs they promise no longer exist. Also I take issue with the sweeping generalization that people do not enjoy manual labor. On the contrary many people find it deeply satisfying especially compared with many of todays soul crushing office careers where experience is not valued and they toss you out as soon as someone cheaper (or more morally flexible) comes along.

Colleges started dying when America surrendered their manufacturing to foreign countries.  The rise of college education was directly correlated to the economic growth the US had after WWII and the need for a highly educated and skilled workforce.  With the end of the manufacturing sector to the present, it is of no doubt why there are surplus college graduates that have no job waiting for them, as in the past.

3. The conditions for the previous arrangement no longer exist, and now populist rage is starting to spill over in a similar way that it did before the New Deal.

America always had the intrinsic problems akin to any multinational nation of the past and for the longest time, it could absorb all those differences and pacify the masses with a growing and dominant domestic economy.  Now that America has been on an economic decline for many years and now depression, all of those social, racial, ethnic, social justice, etc. problems that were suppressed can no longer be today.  Hence, it should come to no surprise of the protests, statue destruction, riots, etc. that are partaking on the streets of the US.

In my opinion your conclusions are influenced by wishful thinking that the status quo will continue until some line is crossed and everything falls apart.

Your summation pretty much sums up the collapse of almost every other empire in history.  The last generations of every empire of the past always tried to maintain the status quo before its collapse, instead of making those sweeping revolutionary changing the masses of that society demand, no matter whatever they were.  The Russian empire, Ceausescu, Marcos, and the Soviet Union are all examples of trying to maintain the status quo, only to have their regimes disappear in a blink of an eye.

It is not a crime to want America to fail catastrophically so that you can gloat over the ashes and take comfort that historical crimes have finally been avenged, but that outlook ignores the greater context of history.

I don't understand your statement.

As a great admirer of the American Republic, Constitution, and Bill of Rights, I personally on record on this forum have been morning the death of the American Republic for years.  It is the American empire that I and billions of other people on this planet that will gloat upon its demise.

As far as oppressive nations go you could do much, much worse than the USA, and if you think the Balkinization process will somehow usher in a new era of peace and stability then maybe it is time to visit the Balkans and their mass grave sites.

I do not have any illusions of how the Word will look after the US empire is gone, however, I am a believer that better nations can rise from its ashes.

And then there is this gem. Calling it wishful thinking is a stretch because it is not even a complete thought.

It is not wishful thinking and, in fact, Hawaiian history is now being taught all over the US showing America's participation of the illegal overthrow of Liliuokalani in 1893 and the illegal annexation of the Hawaii by the US in 1898.  American students are now learning the truth.

Cannot say I am the biggest fan of the FBI but if it was not for the feds we would be completely disarmed except for Kealoha and his goons as well as Miske and other crime syndicates that they favored.

That criminal and his wife deserve to be in prison.

The sovereignty activists  have a point about he legality of the overthrow, but I have not met one yet who I have confidence that could effectively address Hawaii's corruption culture. Thanks to our shitty education system we have selectively bred generations of self-serving thugs who have been taught to look out for their own at the expense of everyone else, and this is ESPECIALLY evident in the Fedrec movement.

The inferior public education system in Hawaii today was a result of the White majorities trying to ensure the local minority population would never be educated enough to complete with them.  One needs to look at the history of Punahou School and what was its original purpose and for whom, to truly understand why private schools are intrinsically superior to public schools in Hawaii.  Punahou click anyone?  The non-white majority would then be thrown to the public school system where their curriculum and funding could be controlled by government, whose ranks would routinely be filled by those and their kids educated from private school.

Cultural issues take a long time to change, and in the meantime despite all their faults we should consider ourselves very lucky to have the Feds as a stabilizing force. If they were to suddenly withdraw I am fairly confident these islands would descent into Wild West lawlessness overnight.

The potential is definitely there, but I still put my faith in the righteousness of an armed people in the end.   

Really don’t give a shit anymore....I’ll probably be dead by then...

Really don’t give a shit anymore....I’ll probably be dead by then...

"Iʻll take Classic Boomer Quotes for $200, Alex."

The potential is definitely there, but I still put my faith in the righteousness of an armed people in the end.   

The only social cohesion we have now is due to the lavish federal spending on these islands. Take that away suddenly and things get really nasty really quick. The “leaders” who flourish in such an environment are not grant-fed intellectuals concerned with human rights, but resourceful criminals who can cobble together a warband and capture territory faster than their rivals.

The only social cohesion we have now is due to the lavish federal spending on these islands. Take that away suddenly and things get really nasty really quick. The “leaders” who flourish in such an environment are not grant-fed intellectuals concerned with human rights, but resourceful criminals who can cobble together a warband and capture territory faster than their rivals.

I agree totally.

However, if you are talking about a situation in Hawaii that arises at the end of the US empire, that outcome is based on a presumption that there is not another extremely large group in the community with the backing of international law that is already prepared to reestablish order first.     

I agree totally.

However, if you are talking about a situation in Hawaii that arises at the end of the US empire, that outcome is based on a presumption that there is not another extremely large group in the community with the backing of international law that is already prepared to reestablish order first.     

There isn't. Hawaiian Homelands saw to that. Blood quantum created the "FU I got mine" and "its okay to be racist" mentality fighting over table scraps, and the result is a fractious non-cohesive dynamic otherwise known as crabs in a bucket. Ethical judgements aside, it was a brilliant strategy on the part of the colonizers.

There isn't. Hawaiian Homelands saw to that. Blood quantum created the "FU I got mine" and "its okay to be racist" mentality fighting over table scraps, and the result is a fractious non-cohesive dynamic otherwise known as crabs in a bucket. Ethical judgements aside, it was a brilliant strategy on the part of the colonizers.

Not colonizers, illegal occupiers, who used blood quantum to divide all Hawaiian nationals.

Since there was no such thing as blood quantum during the Kingdom era, as Hawaiian was a term for nationality, there was no need for such racist distinctions.  It was done as you described by the white American descended traitors responsible for the illegal overthrow and later illegal annexation of Hawai'i to divide the remaining Hawaiian nationals from politically uniting against the white minority that was in-power, thereafter.

And yes, those REPUBLICANS, who were in power for decades before the other cheek of the same ass DEMOCRATS that would later take over, were brilliant RACISTS that knew how to divide and conquer the non-white majority.

Not colonizers, illegal occupiers, who used blood quantum to divide all Hawaiian nationals.

Since there was no such thing as blood quantum during the Kingdom era, as Hawaiian was a term for nationality, there was no need for such racist distinctions.  It was done as you described by the white American descended traitors responsible for the illegal overthrow and later illegal annexation of Hawai'i to divide the remaining Hawaiian nationals from politically uniting against the white minority that was in-power, thereafter.

And yes, those REPUBLICANS, who were in power for decades before the other cheek of the same ass DEMOCRATS that would later take over, were brilliant RACISTS that knew how to divide and conquer the non-white majority.

Hawaiians were successfully colonized, which is demonstrated by the fact that the vast majority of them are more interested in free shit from the government rather than seeking independence. Sovereignty talk is mostly used as leverage to angle for more government cheese.

The idea that China would somehow order the restoration of the kingdom is absurd. They are more likely to use us for military/biological experimentation and sell the organs of Hawaiian activists on the black market.

Wasn’t the overthrow orchestrated and perpetrated by Hawaiian Citizens ?
Backed by the U.S. but not orchestrated.

Hawaiians were successfully colonized, which is demonstrated by the fact that the vast majority of them are more interested in free shit from the government rather than seeking independence. Sovereignty talk is mostly used as leverage to angle for more government cheese.

The idea that China would somehow order the restoration of the kingdom is absurd. They are more likely to use us for military/biological experimentation and sell the organs of Hawaiian activists on the black market.

Yup.
Ask Hong Kong how they like Chinese rule.
Ask China how to address the TMT protest.

What would be expected for Hawaii in a hot war with China?

EMP attack first and another Pearl Harbor style sneak attack but with cruise missiles?

Martial law?  Gun confiscation or do you think all able body men will be drafted?



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The problem here is everyone is still fighting the last war.
Hawaii just isn't that strategic anymore,  Guam is, but  we aren't.
Guam has facilities for B2's, we don't( none that I'm aware of)
ever  wonder why?  Guam has a Nuke storage area, we don't.
Chinese aren't going to waste the time or energy initially,
if at all on Hawaii.

I'd bet Martial law would be declared and all registered guns
to be confiscated. Democrats never let a crisis go to waste,
but that will be a domestic action  for a Democrats Power
grab.  Hawaiian citizens will cooperate as long as property taxes
keep the government afloat and is the largest employer,
they will comply.

There won't be a draft, it will all be over too fast.

Chinese are a very old patient culture.
They will just let our own internal conflicts play out.
eg.
America has just about destroyed it's economy in a matter
of months because some Democrats and RINOs don't like a
President and want to punish the people that elected him.

Chinese or Russians did not have to fire a shot.
Sun Tzu said "if your enemy is committing suicide stand aside",
that is paraphrased of course.