Louis sounds like a zombie.  Can't tell if he's got a pulse.

Sounds like a distinct advantage in precision shooting!   

For those of you interested in zeroing at 200 yards/meters or even 300 yards/meters, are you using a magnified optic?  Just wondering how you are getting decent/consistent enough groups to be certain that you are adjusting your groups properly?  Are you just moving the "center of mass"?

I have all my ARs are zeroed at 50 yards for the 50/200ish zero.  All of my ARs have red dots or just irons.  I can get decent groupings at 50 yards enough to adjust with confidence.  I will shoot groups at 100 yards, but I don't expect much from my 2 MOA dot and 3-4 MOA ammo.  I've shot at 200 yards on rare occasion with my AR, but without a magnified scope, I wouldn't expect much more than groupings that would fit in say a 16" square (torso sized) box.  Maybe a 12" square if I practiced a lot.  At 300 yards, my 2 MOA dot would be 6" and I would expect my groups to be much larger than that! 

I could see zeroing my bolt gun with a 4-16x50 scope beyond 100 yards, but I really don't see any practical reason to zero beyond 100 yards for an AR.  Maybe for those of you shooting rifle marksmanship matches with your ARs with match grade or handloaded ammo.   

For those of you interested in zeroing at 200 yards/meters or even 300 yards/meters, are you using a magnified optic?  Just wondering how you are getting decent/consistent enough groups to be certain that you are adjusting your groups properly?  Are you just moving the "center of mass"?

I have all my ARs are zeroed at 50 yards for the 50/200ish zero.  All of my ARs have red dots or just irons.  I can get decent groupings at 50 yards enough to adjust with confidence.  I will shoot groups at 100 yards, but I don't expect much from my 2 MOA dot and 3-4 MOA ammo.  I've shot at 200 yards on rare occasion with my AR, but without a magnified scope, I wouldn't expect much more than groupings that would fit in say a 16" square (torso sized) box.  Maybe a 12" square if I practiced a lot.  At 300 yards, my 2 MOA dot would be 6" and I would expect my groups to be much larger than that! 

I could see zeroing my bolt gun with a 4-16x50 scope beyond 100 yards, but I really don't see any practical reason to zero beyond 100 yards for an AR.  Maybe for those of you shooting rifle marksmanship matches with your ARs with match grade or handloaded ammo.

If you know where you are at 100 or 50 you should be able to get a zero at 200.
FWIW, I have experienced shooters that are within MOA at 200 and 300 with irons

I've held a MOA at 600 using irons a while back...it'll take a lot of practice to get there again, though......

Eric Bana's character in the movie Blackhawk Down was based off of Paul Howe.

As far as zero distance goes, I only have 200m to build my range without stepping into the livestock area, which could get me 300m but Id be shooting from the ditch next to the public highway.  200m zero gets my vote.

200m is a rock solid zero as it is pretty much the Improved Battlesight Zero 50y/200m. 

For those of you interested in zeroing at 200 yards/meters or even 300 yards/meters, are you using a magnified optic?  Just wondering how you are getting decent/consistent enough groups to be certain that you are adjusting your groups properly?  Are you just moving the "center of mass"?

I have all my ARs are zeroed at 50 yards for the 50/200ish zero.  All of my ARs have red dots or just irons.  I can get decent groupings at 50 yards enough to adjust with confidence.  I will shoot groups at 100 yards, but I don't expect much from my 2 MOA dot and 3-4 MOA ammo.  I've shot at 200 yards on rare occasion with my AR, but without a magnified scope, I wouldn't expect much more than groupings that would fit in say a 16" square (torso sized) box.  Maybe a 12" square if I practiced a lot.  At 300 yards, my 2 MOA dot would be 6" and I would expect my groups to be much larger than that! 

I could see zeroing my bolt gun with a 4-16x50 scope beyond 100 yards, but I really don't see any practical reason to zero beyond 100 yards for an AR.  Maybe for those of you shooting rifle marksmanship matches with your ARs with match grade or handloaded ammo.

As mentioned above the 200m zero is where you get picky on point of impact but it is also easily verified at 50 yards for groups.  The same goes for the 25/300.  The only differences is where you are getting the most picky on your group, either the first crossing of line of sight or the outer crossing.  If you zero at 25 or 50 there is a bit of a variance at the outer crossing of line of sight.  So in reality when you zero for groups at the outer crossing of the LOS your first crossing will show a lesser identifiable variation due to the closer distance.

I've held a MOA at 600 using irons a while back...it'll take a lot of practice to get there again, though......

When you say MOA at 600 yards, I assume that you mean keeping to a maximum grouping of 6 inches.  Not surprised and like you said, it takes a lot of practice and discipline.  I'd honestly be happy with a 6 inch group at 200 yards. 

If you know where you are at 100 or 50 you should be able to get a zero at 200.
FWIW, I have experienced shooters that are within MOA at 200 and 300 with irons

Yes.  With my chosen zero of 50 yards, I know I will be about an inch low at 25 yards, POA/POI at 50 yards, about 2 inches high at 100 yards and back to about POA/POI at about 200 meters or so.  My typical procedure to zero is to shoot 3 round groups at 50 yards from a rest or Lead Sled and adjust accordingly.  I will shoot a couple of 5 round groups at 50 yards to confirm the zero and hoping to keep my groups to less than an inch for some level of confidence.  After that, I will shoot the metal targets at about 240 yards to "confirm".  I am basically confirming zero at 200 yards (or really should be 200 meters), but I still consider that a 50 yard zero. 

On the rare occasion that I've had access to a 200 yard range, I've shot groups at 200 yards to confirm zero.  But at that range, I am just verifying that I am in the general vicinity and am generally happy with a 8" group or even ok with out to 12" groups.  I just can't see the target with enough definition to say that I am putting the red dot back on the same spot to begin with without magnification.  I could use the method of putting the POA on top of the dot, but I generally don't since I am not expecting to be that precise anyways.   

As mentioned above the 200m zero is where you get picky on point of impact but it is also easily verified at 50 yards for groups.  The same goes for the 25/300.  The only differences is where you are getting the most picky on your group, either the first crossing of line of sight or the outer crossing.  If you zero at 25 or 50 there is a bit of a variance at the outer crossing of line of sight.  So in reality when you zero for groups at the outer crossing of the LOS your first crossing will show a lesser identifiable variation due to the closer distance.

I understand the 50yard/200meter and 25yard/300yard zeros (or there abouts depending on your chosen load, projectile weight, etc).  As mentioned above, I personally zero to 50 yards and the groups shot at 200 yards (or 200 meters) are to confirm.  I can see how refining the zero at 200 yards (or the second crossing) would help further refine the first crossing.  However, I just don't feel that I am consistent enough at 200 yards to have much confidence that adjusting the zero at that that distance based on the larger group sizing that I get at those ranges.  I think a magnified optic would help in that regard.  And yes, I do very much need to practice. 

The reason why I asked is that I've heard of precision shooters zeroing their guns anywhere from 200 yards out to 600 yards and even further.  However, they are typically doing so with magnified optics to zero their guns.  I guess my point is that I didn't think anyone would be really zeroing their 16" barrelled ARs (5.56/.223) at 200 yards, let alone 300 yards, which is what the video in the OP was about.  I can see if you're talking larger calibers with magnified optics, but not 5.56/.223 with unmagnified red dots.  Again, I am not saying that it's not possible, but just didn't think it was practical.   

Not sure of what you are asking but it depends on why you are shooting. I have zeroes at 100, 200, 300 and 600 for the game I shoot in. To add, zeroes are just a baseline and from what very experienced shooters told me, it changes. Ammo, weather, how the moon aligns with the planet etc.

Not sure of what you are asking but it depends on why you are shooting. I have zeroes at 100, 200, 300 and 600 for the game I shoot in. To add, zeroes are just a baseline and from what very experienced shooters told me, it changes. Ammo, weather, how the moon aligns with the planet etc.

The OP is "Zero at Distance" with a link to a portion of Travis Haley's Adaptive Carbine: Zero at Distance.  So I assumed the OP was referring to what distance you zero your AR15/M4 type gun.  Then there were some who mentioned wanting to zero their gun at 200 yards or even 300 yards and I am wondering 1) are people really zeroing their AR15/M4 at 200 or 300, or are they doing the 50/200 or 25/300 zero, and 2) if they are zeroing their guns at 200 or 300 yards are they using a magnified optic to do so because the margin for error of doing so with unmagnified red dot or irons is pretty significant such that how could you adjust your zero with confidence at 200 or 300 yards. 

On the rare occasion that I can shoot on paper at 200 yards, I will readily admit that I am not that consistent, particularly when shooting from prone with a mag-monopod.  Even from a bench, I am not sure I could put my red dot or irons back on the target consistently enough at 200 or 300 to expect a group that I could say with some level of confidence that my adjustments to windage or elevation are helping anything. 

However, If the discussion is intended for all rifles, like precision or hunting bolt guns, then yes, I can see zeroing at anywhere from 50 yards out to 600 yards or as far as the range you have access to can go depending on your intended application (like you said).

The OP is "Zero at Distance" with a link to a portion of Travis Haley's Adaptive Carbine: Zero at Distance.  So I assumed the OP was referring to what distance you zero your AR15/M4 type gun.  Then there were some who mentioned wanting to zero their gun at 200 yards or even 300 yards and I am wondering 1) are people really zeroing their AR15/M4 at 200 or 300, or are they doing the 50/200 or 25/300 zero, and 2) if they are zeroing their guns at 200 or 300 yards are they using a magnified optic to do so because the margin for error of doing so with unmagnified red dot or irons is pretty significant such that how could you adjust your zero with confidence at 200 or 300 yards. 

On the rare occasion that I can shoot on paper at 200 yards, I will readily admit that I am not that consistent, particularly when shooting from prone with a mag-monopod.  Even from a bench, I am not sure I could put my red dot or irons back on the target consistently enough at 200 or 300 to expect a group that I could say with some level of confidence that my adjustments to windage or elevation are helping anything. 

However, If the discussion is intended for all rifles, like precision or hunting bolt guns, then yes, I can see zeroing at anywhere from 50 yards out to 600 yards or as far as the range you have access to can go depending on your intended application (like you said).

You could always go with the trick my dad preferred for hunting rifles back before he cleared out a 400-yard range and we were limited to 100: zero x.xx" high at 100.  We used an inch at 100, but there's no reason you can't look up the values in a ballistic calculator and just mathematically zero for 300 yards on a 100 yard target.  For example: you put in the data for a 300 yard zero using the load data of your choice.  You see that according to the maths, you'll be 2" high at 100 yards.  Then you head over to Koko Head and zero your rifle 2" high at 100 yards, and presto!  -300 yard zero (give or take the accuracy of the computations and data input to the ballistic program).  As long as you're on the paper/steel at 300 often enough to make you happy, your zero is good to go.  (Plus, this'll save you 400 yards of walking every time you have to check the target!)

The advantage to this method is that at 100 yards, your groups should be small enough that you can move them around the paper by adjusting your sights.  All that's left to do is take some shots at 300 yards to verify, and at that point you can say, "Yes, my zero is valid" or "Nope, back to the drawing board for a different drop chart."  That way you don't have worry about the group size at three hundred. 

You could always go with the trick my dad preferred for hunting rifles back before he cleared out a 400-yard range and we were limited to 100: zero x.xx" high at 100.  We used an inch at 100, but there's no reason you can't look up the values in a ballistic calculator and just mathematically zero for 300 yards on a 100 yard target.  For example: you put in the data for a 300 yard zero using the load data of your choice.  You see that according to the maths, you'll be 2" high at 100 yards.  Then you head over to Koko Head and zero your rifle 2" high at 100 yards, and presto!  -300 yard zero (give or take the accuracy of the computations and data input to the ballistic program).  As long as you're on the paper/steel at 300 often enough to make you happy, your zero is good to go.  (Plus, this'll save you 400 yards of walking every time you have to check the target!)

The advantage to this method is that at 100 yards, your groups should be small enough that you can move them around the paper by adjusting your sights.   All that's left to do is take some shots at 300 yards to verify, and at that point you can say, "Yes, my zero is valid" or "Nope, back to the drawing board for a different drop chart."  That way you don't have worry about the group size at three hundred.

That's what I was getting at.  At 50 yard or 100 yards, my groups are small enough that I can adjust and be confident that I am adjusting the gun and not making up for my tendencies.  Beyond that, I am not sure if it's the sights that are being adjusted or if I am just throwing the rounds off myself.  Probably a little bit of both.

Regarding the X.XX" offset based on calculated ballistics, I understand that concept.  In a recent class, the preferred zero was a 50yard/200meter zero.  But we started at the 25 yard mark and set our POA about an inch over the POI and did a rough zero from there before moving back to 50 yards.  I believe that is done often where someone may be limited to a max range of say 25 yards.  They also have targets with the offsets specifically for those applications, even the military has those as well.  That said, you are really zeroing at say 50 yards with an approximation at 200 meters.  As opposed to truly zeroing at 200 meters (or 200 yards, or whatever chosen distance). 

I was just thinking about those who said that they wished that they had 200 or even 300 yard ranges to zero at.  When like you said, you can get it close enough with a 50 or 100 yard range to know, wish some level of confidence, that you will be POA/POI at a distance beyond the range's maximum for target stands. 

We shoot at 200,300 and 600 yards monthly at Puuloa. I just shot the full course this past weekend. I've cleaned the 200 and 300 targets a few times. I'm an average shooter. I scored for an All Guard shooter who shot a perfect 10x at 200 yards, rapid fire sitting. The X ring measures 3 " and we were shooting irons. Before optics thats how they did it and at greater distances. Optics don't make a bad shooter better. Practice makes a bad shooter better. The key to getting tight groups is focusing on that front sight - no matter how big or small.
Just like waking up in the morning, making coffee, putting on your clothes and driving to work; when you do it so many times you will get good groups that you can read eventually.
I on the other hand am a slow learner 
Come out and shoot www.puuloa.com
I admit it is a lot of work, it is hot, there is no shade and then you take your shot.

We shoot at 200,300 and 600 yards monthly at Puuloa. I just shot the full course this past weekend. I've cleaned the 200 and 300 targets a few times. I'm an average shooter. I scored for an All Guard shooter who shot a perfect 10x at 200 yards, rapid fire sitting. The X ring measures 3 " and we were shooting irons. Before optics thats how they did it and at greater distances. Optics don't make a bad shooter better. Practice makes a bad shooter better. The key to getting tight groups is focusing on that front sight - no matter how big or small.
Just like waking up in the morning, making coffee, putting on your clothes and driving to work; when you do it so many times you will get good groups that you can read eventually.
I on the other hand am a slow learner 
Come out and shoot www.puuloa.com
I admit it is a lot of work, it is hot, there is no shade and then you take your shot.

I've actually been meaning to go out there for a shoot for a while.  I just have so much going on with shooting (USPSA, Koko Head, Schofield) and other stuff.  I emailed a guy a while back and was planning on taking my .308 out there for a test run.  At one point, I was even thinking of putting together an AR for the service rifle class.  Something like the BCM's AR rifle.

I have no doubt that there are many excellent shooters who can do really well with irons.  Practice and discipline are a must for sure.

I'll eventually get my arse out there to Puuloa.   

I've actually been meaning to go out there for a shoot for a while.  I just have so much going on with shooting (USPSA, Koko Head, Schofield) and other stuff.  I emailed a guy a while back and was planning on taking my .308 out there for a test run.  At one point, I was even thinking of putting together an AR for the service rifle class.  Something like the BCM's AR rifle.

I have no doubt that there are many excellent shooters who can do really well with irons.  Practice and discipline are a must for sure.

I'll eventually get my arse out there to Puuloa.   

I just joined Schofield as well, the drive and crowd at Kokohead is getting insane

I just joined Schofield as well, the drive and crowd at Kokohead is getting insane

Awesome!  I'm an RSO out there.  Only one range day for this month though.   

But, it's on KR3, which is the long range one.  I am not sure if I can make it out there this weekend though.  Hopefully I'll run into you sometime out there.

Awesome!  I'm an RSO out there.  Only one range day for this month though.   

But, it's on KR3, which is the long range one.  I am not sure if I can make it out there this weekend though.  Hopefully I'll run into you sometime out there.

I got drill this weekend - we are doing unit quals at 25m 

thanks for the link
I wish I could do more than just zero at 50 or 100

I understand the 50yard/200meter and 25yard/300yard zeros (or there abouts depending on your chosen load, projectile weight, etc).  As mentioned above, I personally zero to 50 yards and the groups shot at 200 yards (or 200 meters) are to confirm.  I can see how refining the zero at 200 yards (or the second crossing) would help further refine the first crossing.  However, I just don't feel that I am consistent enough at 200 yards to have much confidence that adjusting the zero at that that distance based on the larger group sizing that I get at those ranges.  I think a magnified optic would help in that regard.  And yes, I do very much need to practice. 

The reason why I asked is that I've heard of precision shooters zeroing their guns anywhere from 200 yards out to 600 yards and even further.  However, they are typically doing so with magnified optics to zero their guns.  I guess my point is that I didn't think anyone would be really zeroing their 16" barrelled ARs (5.56/.223) at 200 yards, let alone 300 yards, which is what the video in the OP was about.  I can see if you're talking larger calibers with magnified optics, but not 5.56/.223 with unmagnified red dots.  Again, I am not saying that it's not possible, but just didn't think it was practical.

I think your onto it and I agree with what you are saying.  In reality for your average shooter with iron sights, or a non-magnified optic, it is really hard to tell any appreciable differences at 200 or beyond.  In other words the 50y/200m or 25/300 are good workable numbers.  And you are correct in that a rifle capable of holding MOA or less and a good shooter, then getting more picky about your zero comes into play.  A different powder load, bullet type, bullet weight, etc, etc can change a bullets trajectory, so as an example to assume that any .223 / 5.56 is going to be a 50y/200m projectile is not technically correct and this will show in a precision set up.  Now if you are only aiming for perhaps an 8" sized hit zone, that you deem to be acceptable accuracy then again the generic 50y/200m or 25/300 is going to be workable.  I will however add that with the 25 / 300 a shooter really needs to confirm the outer 300 and not just rely on the 25 hits.  There is too narrow of a margin to just rely on the 25 zero to be accurate at 300. 

I think your onto it and I agree with what you are saying.  In reality for your average shooter with iron sights, or a non-magnified optic, it is really hard to tell any appreciable differences at 200 or beyond.  In other words the 50y/200m or 25/300 are good workable numbers.  And you are correct in that a rifle capable of holding MOA or less and a good shooter, then getting more picky about your zero comes into play.  A different powder load, bullet type, bullet weight, etc, etc can change a bullets trajectory, so as an example to assume that any .223 / 5.56 is going to be a 50y/200m projectile is not technically correct and this will show in a precision set up.  Now if you are only aiming for perhaps an 8" sized hit zone, that you deem to be acceptable accuracy then again the generic 50y/200m or 25/300 is going to be workable.  I will however add that with the 25 / 300 a shooter really needs to confirm the outer 300 and not just rely on the 25 hits.  There is too narrow of a margin to just rely on the 25 zero to be accurate at 300.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at.   I am positive my two primary guns are capable of holding MOA, but my ammo isn't.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Haha. 

This came up since I took a basic carbine course with Redback One last month and I have to admit that I was humbled when we shot prone at 200 yards.  It's not something that I get to do very often at all, but I thought I would be just fine.  Yes, you're adding some level of stress and some fatigue (it was near the end of TD1), but I still thought I would shoot better than I did. 

Excellent point on the 25/300 and margin for error on zeroing at 25.  I should probably do more confirming at 200 with my 50y/200m zero, but we just don't have that many options for that here unfortunately. 

Awesome!  I'm an RSO out there.  Only one range day for this month though.   

But, it's on KR3, which is the long range one.  I am not sure if I can make it out there this weekend though.  Hopefully I'll run into you sometime out there.

Someone still has to step up to RSO this one.  Gus has OIC, but no RSO. Same old people have been volunteering so I've been cutting back on my volunteering to force others to step up.  That and it's been crazy busy at work.

I just joined Schofield as well, the drive and crowd at Kokohead is getting insane

Nice.  I'll need to get out and let you shoot my stuff when we get KR-3 next (not this week, I'm actually playing golf for the first time in like 6 months).  You'll dig KR-3, but it's funky.  For some reason my range finder has a hard time pulling distances past 200 yards out there.  Other places I shoot 700 yards and the distance comes up OK.  I don't know what it is about that range.