FOIA works better.  The PC isn't obligated to answer your questions.

FOIA only applies to the federal government. Would have to use Hawaii’s “Sunshine Law” or whatever it is.

https://oip.hawaii.gov/laws-rules-opinions/sunshine-law/

FOIA only applies to the federal government. Would have to use Hawaii’s “Sunshine Law” or whatever it is.

https://oip.hawaii.gov/laws-rules-opinions/sunshine-law/

UIPA is Hawaii's term for FOIA.

UIPA is Hawaii's term for FOIA.

Of course it is different.  Can't let an opportunity to reinvent the wheel pass us by!

HPD updates public that it is still investigating, still hoping everybody will forget..

https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/investigation-continues-into-unattended-police-rifle-that-led-to-shooting/

HPD updates public that it is still investigating, still hoping everybody will forget..

https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/investigation-continues-into-unattended-police-rifle-that-led-to-shooting/

Police said the suspect was shot to death by police after HPD said he grabbed
an officer’s unattended rifle. HPD said the critical incident review would be done
in 90 days.

HPD told the Honolulu Police Commission on Wednesday, Nov. 15, that they
understand they’re past the 90-day mark.

So, the 90 days was not a rule -- more like a guideline?

No accountability for whoever screwed up and left the rifle unattended.  So, why would they hold the investigators accountable for missing their deadline?

Seems like the police officers on scene are having difficulty getting their stories to line up.  Should have taken all of 30 minutes, including filing the report.

"Whose rifle is that next to the body?

"Mine, sir."

"How did he get his hands on it?"

"Um, I left it here thinking there's nobody but Cops in this house.  I never thought the perp would make his way here."

"Be in my office in 1 hour, and you better be thinking up a damned good reason why I shouldn't fire your ass."

Case closed.   
 

So, the 90 days was not a rule -- more like a guideline?

No accountability for whoever screwed up and left the rifle unattended.  So, why would they hold the investigators accountable for missing their deadline?

Seems like the police officers on scene are having difficulty getting their stories to line up.  Should have taken all of 30 minutes, including filing the report.

"Whose rifle is that next to the body?

"Mine, sir."

"How did he get his hands on it?"

"Um, I left it here thinking there's nobody but Cops in this house.  I never thought the perp would make his way here."

"Be in my office in 1 hour, and you better be thinking up a damned good reason why I shouldn't fire your ass."

Case closed.   
 

More like

"Sir, i was taking a shit"

Logan

"Fair enough"

Case closed

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More like

"Sir, i was taking a shit"

Logan

"Fair enough"

Case closed

No matter the reason, the Cop was careless.  He left his post AND his weapon. 

If nature calls, you don't leave the firearm outside the bathroom.  Did these people learn nothing from Pulp Fiction?

Yep, they're waiting and hoping that nobody will force them to follow through with the investigation.

They definitely need to incorporate new training and weapon protocols when out in the field because that incident is inexcusable.

Eat, sleep, f*ck, sh*t, piss, whatever.  That weapon stays with you until it is locked up in the Armory.  Once out of the Armory, it stays with you.

Yep, they're waiting and hoping that nobody will force them to follow through with the investigation.

They definitely need to incorporate new training and weapon protocols when out in the field because that incident is inexcusable.

Eat, sleep, f*ck, sh*t, piss, whatever.  That weapon stays with you until it is locked up in the Armory.  Once out of the Armory, it stays with you.

I have a feeling the training was performed. 

What they didn't seem to instill was an understanding that anything someone else does with your weapon -- Cop, bystander, perp -- is your responsibility, and you will be charged with a crime if that happens.

Simple.  Everything else is just details.

No matter the reason, the Cop was careless.  He left his post AND his weapon. 

If nature calls, you don't leave the firearm outside the bathroom.  Did these people learn nothing from Pulp Fiction?

I can't make a final judgement without knowing more information but I generally agree with you here.

An officer might have to put his rifle down briefly to do some task but leaving it unattended for any lengthy period of time is not going to be justifiable in most situations

I can't make a final judgement without knowing more information but I generally agree with you here.

An officer might have to put his rifle down briefly to do some task but leaving it unattended for any lengthy period of time is not going to be justifiable in most situations

Wait, wut? Thanks for playing. Do not pass Go.

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I can't make a final judgement without knowing more information but I generally agree with you here.

An officer might have to put his rifle down briefly to do some task but leaving it unattended for any lengthy period of time is not going to be justifiable in most situations

So when is it ok to leave a weapon like a firearm unattended?  Sorry it's not most situations, it's no situation.

We're talking about a dangerous weapon.  If a weapon needs to be "put down" it still needs to be supervised, by another competent team member or the operator still needs to be in the immediate vicinity of that weapon.

I don't know HPD's protocol.  But it can't be that different than the military.  In the military, even if we had to "put down" our weapon(s), it's either being watched by another team member(s) or the sling is over our shoulder or still attached to a part of our bodies (like when we need to eat, shit, piss, sleep.)

So when is it ok to leave a weapon like a firearm unattended?  Sorry it's not most situations, it's no situation.

We're talking about a dangerous weapon.  If a weapon needs to be "put down" it still needs to be supervised, by another competent team member or the operator still needs to be in the immediate vicinity of that weapon.

I don't know HPD's protocol.  But it can't be that different than the military.  In the military, even if we had to "put down" our weapon(s), it's either being watched by another team member(s) or the sling is over our shoulder or still attached to a part of our bodies (like when we need to eat, shit, piss, sleep.)

Hes using whataboutism, so when called out he can move goalpost.

Im still waiting for him to read the entire HI red flag law and not just 1 part.

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maybe the unattended rifle was a non-lethal ... used for "warning shots"?

maybe the unattended rifle was a non-lethal ... used for "warning shots"?

Maybe it was unoperatable and the user went to the truck to get tools.

Maybe it fell in the tub and got water logged. So the owner went to the truck to get a towel

Maybe the owner had a medical emergency and left it to get some fresh air or wait for EMS

All these would be plausable by 1 person and no opinion would be made yet.

But here's what I'll guess is happening.  The reason why the 90 day investigation ETA is going pass is that all SSD in the home are not saying shit, including the person who's rifle it was.  And SSD doesn't use bodycams, so the investigation is at a stand still.  They are invoking their union rep to speak on their behalf's.

In other words, we can f*ck up.  But not you law abiding, responsible firearm owners.  You guys are potential criminals, according to the laws and by-laws of the banana republik of hawaii.

So neva mind what happened that day.  Neva mind that an innocent person could have been hurt or killed that day.  We da police.  We can F*ck up.  But not you.

We nomo dat tool da Men in Black use to make yoo guys forget........

In other words, we can f*ck up.  But not you law abiding, responsible firearm owners.  You guys are potential criminals, according to the laws and by-laws of the banana republik of hawaii.

So neva mind what happened that day.  Neva mind that an innocent person could have been hurt or killed that day.  We da police.  We can F*ck up.  But not you.

We nomo dat tool da Men in Black use to make yoo guys forget........

Add in qualified immunity.  Which sounds good on paper, but often is abused.  Proof is on YT police audit channels.

Qualified Immunity isn't even a law.  It's a Constitutional concept -- a legal principle -- used by the Supreme Court to protect government officials performing discretionary (optional) functions from lawsuits for damages unless the plaintiff shows that the official violated "clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known".

it's broad and vague enough that without something it writing (constitution, law, policy, ordinance, etc.) that clearly says what the government employee did was in violation, and also that the person was aware of that guidance, they can do pretty much anything else.

If you've read a few of Hawaii's statutes, you'll notice many laws have exemptions, and law enforcement gets a lot of them.

Wait, wut? Thanks for playing. Do not pass Go.

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Why do you even bother replying when you said virtually nothing?

So when is it ok to leave a weapon like a firearm unattended?  Sorry it's not most situations, it's no situation.

I don't know, maybe if you became seriously wounded?

I cannot really think of any other time you could justify leaving your weapon. I simply stated "most situations" in case there is some situation I did not consider. I put in disclaimers like that because I know that I don't know everything and there could be some situation justifying it that I had not conceived of.