No really, as the guy was never hit. Which is what makes this a funny situation.  I can see the defense lawyer when he's suing saying "well, your client was never harmed".

I'm not talking about a specific incident, but rather the dynamics that were demonstrated and their potential for chaos even in a "managed" environment.

If you get a bunch of troops and cops mixed up together under a confusing chain of command, hype them up on adrenaline, and they accidentally open fire on a group of civilians in a politically charged situation then things can get awful really quick.

It feels like as a nation we are dangerously close to this type of moment.

so you think deputy hernandez "looked white"
i think you need to go back for more HPD investigative training...

He looked white though....

I know it is impossible to test 100% who will go code black but man this feels like a huge fail. At least he is weeded out without anyone getting hurt.

I'm not talking about a specific incident, but rather the dynamics that were demonstrated and their potential for chaos even in a "managed" environment.

If you get a bunch of troops and cops mixed up together under a confusing chain of command, hype them up on adrenaline, and they accidentally open fire on a group of civilians in a politically charged situation then things can get awful really quick.

It feels like as a nation we are dangerously close to this type of moment.

Some of them need to be hyped on adrenaline. I mean, look at Ulvade, 1 had enough thought to use the hand sanitizer dispenser. The others wife was in there and let himself be escorted out.

Meanwhile, parents were trying to break thru.

I'm not talking about a specific incident, but rather the dynamics that were demonstrated and their potential for chaos even in a "managed" environment.

If you get a bunch of troops and cops mixed up together under a confusing chain of command, hype them up on adrenaline, and they accidentally open fire on a group of civilians in a politically charged situation then things can get awful really quick.

It feels like as a nation we are dangerously close to this type of moment.

The January 6th events were 100% preventable.  The Speaker, Pelosi, declined to increase security or take other actions to make sure everything ran smoothly.

it's like she wanted something violent to happen. 

I'm not talking about a specific incident, but rather the dynamics that were demonstrated and their potential for chaos even in a "managed" environment.

If you get a bunch of troops and cops mixed up together under a confusing chain of command, hype them up on adrenaline, and they accidentally open fire on a group of civilians in a politically charged situation then things can get awful really quick.

It feels like as a nation we are dangerously close to this type of moment.

I wonder if that same energy happened when the US soldiers fired upon the Kent State college students?

It wouldn't be hard to imagine such a triggering event occurring in this day and age.

The January 6th events were 100% preventable.  The Speaker, Pelosi, declined to increase security or take other actions to make sure everything ran smoothly.

it's like she wanted something violent to happen.

How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent? They could have doubled or tripled the size of the security and Trump supporters could have still clashed with them.

so you think deputy hernandez "looked white"

Haha, touche. I thought his skin looked pretty fair colored but maybe he is just light skinned hispanic.

How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent? They could have doubled or tripled the size of the security and Trump supporters could have still clashed with them.

The cops attacked the protestors first and started shooting gas and flashbangs into the crowd to get them riled up. Then the agent provocateurs dressed up like Trump supporters started telling everyone to go "into the capitol". Then the capitol police unlocked the doors and let them in.

I assume the reason Pelosi called off the National Guard was that the organizers of this psyop were unsure of their loyalty to the deep state.

Did you hear that Kamala Harris almost got blown up by a pipe bomb, btw? The secret service got caught on camera screwing up so badly that they had to tell the media to cancel the story.

How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent? They could have doubled or tripled the size of the security and Trump supporters could have still clashed with them.

Are you serious?

What We Know So Far: A Timeline Of Security Response At The Capitol On Jan. 6

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/956842958/what-we-know-so-far-a-timeline-of-security-at-the-capitol-on-january-6

How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent? They could have doubled or tripled the size of the security and Trump supporters could have still clashed with them.

#objective.

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The cops attacked the protestors first and started shooting gas and flashbangs into the crowd to get them riled up. Then the agent provocateurs dressed up like Trump supporters started telling everyone to go "into the capitol". Then the capitol police unlocked the doors and let them in.

I assume the reason Pelosi called off the National Guard was that the organizers of this psyop were unsure of their loyalty to the deep state.

Did you hear that Kamala Harris almost got blown up by a pipe bomb, btw? The secret service got caught on camera screwing up so badly that they had to tell the media to cancel the story.

As entertaining as they may be I again must unsubscribe to this level of conspiracy theory.

Are you serious?

What We Know So Far: A Timeline Of Security Response At The Capitol On Jan. 6

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/956842958/what-we-know-so-far-a-timeline-of-security-at-the-capitol-on-january-6

That does nothing to answer the question I posed to you.

That does nothing to answer the question I posed to you.

Then you failed to read it or understand it.

I can't do all your learning for you.  That would be a losing proposition -- like teaching the proverbial pig to sing.

Then you failed to read it or understand it.

I can't do all your learning for you.  That would be a losing proposition -- like teaching the proverbial pig to sing.

Now you are backpedaling. Pelosi was mentioned only once in that whole article. I didn't see anything to explain how more police would have prevented Trump supporters from clashing with police.

I am not going to make your argument for you.

Now you are backpedaling. Pelosi was mentioned only once in that whole article. I didn't see anything to explain how more police would have prevented Trump supporters from clashing with police.

I am not going to make your argument for you.

Did you not read all the fore-warning and requests ahead of Jan 6th asking for more manpower, including the National Guard?

One higher-up's answer:  We don't want the optics calling in the Guard would create.

So, in your mind, nobody asking for more police and LE/Militaryh presence would have any reason to ask, because "I didn't see anything to explain how more police would have prevented Trump supporters from clashing with police."

So, if you can't stop a Tsunami, there's not reason to install warning sirens and have evacuation plans?  What's the use of having the resources to deal with something if those things won't actually STOP IT in the first place?

Are you for real?

Did you not read all the fore-warning and requests ahead of Jan 6th asking for more manpower, including the National Guard?

One higher-up's answer:  We don't want the optics calling in the Guard would create.

So, in your mind, nobody asking for more police and LE/Militaryh presence would have any reason to ask, because "I didn't see anything to explain how more police would have prevented Trump supporters from clashing with police."

So, if you can't stop a Tsunami, there's not reason to install warning sirens and have evacuation plans?  What's the use of having the resources to deal with something if those things won't actually STOP IT in the first place?

Are you for real?

I am aware of the failures to prepare for the protest, but that doesn't address my question. I think perhaps you need to read my question again.

I said: "How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent?"
In other words, what makes you think that Trump protesters would be all peaceful if there were simply a much larger capitol city police force or the guard on hand? I didn't say anything about preventing them from getting inside the capitol, I said being violent.

I am aware of the failures to prepare for the protest, but that doesn't address my question. I think perhaps you need to read my question again.

I said: "How can you be so sure that Pelosi calling for extra troops would have prevented Trump supporters from being violent?"
In other words, what makes you think that Trump protesters would be all peaceful if there were simply a much larger capitol city police force or the guard on hand? I didn't say anything about preventing them from getting inside the capitol, I said being violent.

Is it your belief that protesters are 100% stupid and will riot with overwhelming numbers standing against them?

Where do you learn this stuff?

We know the manpower that was present was insufficient.

It makes sense that more manpower would have had at least some effect on the crowds -- and in sufficient numbers been capable of controlling the crowds.

Most Cops understand the impact a show of force has on crowds.  Why don't you?

Is it your belief that protesters are 100% stupid and will riot with overwhelming numbers standing against them?

I'd suggest you try googling "mob mentality" or "herd mentality" or "riot mentality" because you seem to have a lack of understanding how riots happen.



[/quote]We know the manpower that was present was insufficient.[/quote]

Agreed.

It makes sense that more manpower would have had at least some effect on the crowds -- and in sufficient numbers been capable of controlling the crowds.

You are moving the goalpost. You said "The January 6th events were 100% preventable" now you are saying it would have had at least some effect on the crowds. Yes, I am sure a much larger police force would have had an effect on the crowd but I don't know how you can say it was 100% preventable.


Plus, isn't it a little bit ironic to blame the lack of police for the violence? The protesters just couldn't help themselves, they needed more cops to prevent them from fighting with the cops? It's not a very positive image of Trump supporters.... I wonder how preventable it would have been if Trump had done a sincere job at keeping his followers orderly?

I'd suggest you try googling "mob mentality" or "herd mentality" or "riot mentality" because you seem to have a lack of understanding how riots happen.



We know the manpower that was present was insufficient.

Agreed.


You are moving the goalpost. You said "The January 6th events were 100% preventable" now you are saying it would have had at least some effect on the crowds. Yes, I am sure a much larger police force would have had an effect on the crowd but I don't know how you can say it was 100% preventable.


Plus, isn't it a little bit ironic to blame the lack of police for the violence? The protesters just couldn't help themselves, they needed more cops to prevent them from fighting with the cops? It's not a very positive image of Trump supporters.... I wonder how preventable it would have been if Trump had done a sincere job at keeping his followers orderly?

Mob mentality is not a given in all crowds.  In fact, the norm is for people to do what they know is right even if the mob is doing wrong.  These are not Liberals we are discussing.

You assume too much about human behavior.

What I said was "the events were 100% preventable."  Show me where I said a larger police presence would have done that.

There's more than one thing the people in charge that day failed to do.  Refusing to increase law enforcement presence was just one of them.

Try again.  My goal posts remain in their original places.

I blame the few instigators for the violence, not the police presence.  Wait -- that might have been one in the same.  Reports show that the FBI had their agents in the crowd.  they refuse to say who and how many.  Ironic that the conspiracy theory that the FBI orchestrated that riot is based in facts the gov't is partially trying to cover up.

Wish there was a diagram of where all the bullets went.  That was around 30 bullets fired.  How did they not hit the guy.