when is it enough?! (Read 4957 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2025, 05:23:13 PM »
dis guy is Chinese and he loves fireworks, so much so he brought from motherland

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/honolulu-man-charged-fireworks-smuggling-ice-atf-probe

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2012/09/05/breaking-news/man-acquitted-of-importing-fireworks-linked-to-waikele-blast/
So, fireworks in a shipping container were confiscated in 2009, Chang was charged federally in 2011, and the jury found him not guilty in 2012.

If it hadn't been for the Waikele explosion and the five deaths it caused, would there have been any investigation or charges?  What was the delay between 2009 and the 2011 explosion?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2025, 06:38:23 PM »
some are
but i bet tons just don't want to be "that guy" that ratted things out...

i figured somebody was getting paid to look the other way.  "cross my palm with silver..."

oldfart

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2025, 03:09:47 AM »
some are
but i bet tons just don't want to be "that guy" that ratted things out...
....
Exactly correct. Hawaii is a small place. Everybody knows everybody or are related by blood or marriage.
What, Me Worry?

oldfart

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2025, 07:22:44 AM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/01/03/neighbor-describes-terrifying-moments-fatal-fireworks-blast/

In this latest news report video from the scene, I notice that there is NONE of the usual memorial balloons. flowers, ribbons, pictures, lei, etc in front of the house.
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2025, 08:00:25 AM »
i once asked a patient who was a longshoreman, "how come they cannot use dogs to find the fireworks?"
he told me, "you don't need dogs to figure out which containers have the fireworks. humans can smell the gunpowder right away."
so the issue is not detection, it's the corruption...

Agree.  Corruption.  Aloha Spirit from the Dark Side. 
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2025, 08:04:16 AM »
plus, i'n told that some of the distribution is done by fire and police, and the ones who are not have friends and customers who are...

Maybe the incident happened at a fireworks dealer/shipper/importer's house.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

hvybarrels

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2025, 04:44:27 PM »
If people want to blow themselves up I say let ‘em rip. Personally I love watching the illegal fireworks displays but never participate because its a dangerous waste of money. It does kind of make up for the fact that the 4th of July here sucks, though.
Third world living at first world prices. Thank you for being a Mahalo Rewards member.

changemyoil66

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2025, 04:48:04 PM »
If people want to blow themselves up I say let ‘em rip. Personally I love watching the illegal fireworks displays but never participate because its a dangerous waste of money. It does kind of make up for the fact that the 4th of July here sucks, though.

Spectators beware also.

ren

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2025, 06:14:38 PM »
so stupid to call this a tradition. It's illegal. As I speak someone is firing them off right now eve of Jan 3 in Waipahu Mauka. If everyone smoked crack on NYE is that also a "tradition"?
Deeds Not Words

hvybarrels

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2025, 10:21:37 PM »
I’d rather live next to scofflaws than obedient sheep who still wear face diapers.
Third world living at first world prices. Thank you for being a Mahalo Rewards member.

rhayder

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2025, 02:47:23 PM »
they should go after the manufacturers of the fireworks in China

They should hire more CBP employees and train more explosive sniffing dogs.

rhayder

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2025, 02:53:20 PM »
Is it true they had a firework display on a table; the table fell over and the fireworks exploded a cache of other fireworks?

jerry_03

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2025, 12:09:57 AM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/01/03/neighbor-describes-terrifying-moments-fatal-fireworks-blast/

In this latest news report video from the scene, I notice that there is NONE of the usual memorial balloons. flowers, ribbons, pictures, lei, etc in front of the house.

whats your point?

Kalikikopa

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2025, 01:20:34 PM »
they should go after the manufacturers of the fireworks in China
I have to disagree with this. Fireworks are legal in many places. The manufacturer should not be held responsible for the customer's using their product unsafely. That will lead to mass transit only as cars are used irresponsibly.  That being said, people need to realize that they are "playing " with explosives. They acquire enough to equal the explosive power of cases of dynamite, then treat it like a single firecracker. If a professional fireworks display that uses less than  half of what people acquire here, there are required to have explosive experts, secure containment, fire mitigation, and safety protocols in place. Here, we replace all that with alcohol. The youtube videos of new years here, shows there is obviously no enforcement, either on the day of celebration, or in the policing of importing explosives, probably due to corruption. But we all remember the disaster when the bunker of confiscated fireworks killed someone. As much as we need more enforcement, more emphasis needs to be put on the fires, destruction, and the loss of life, in a way that emphasizes, the irresponsible, and dangerous way theyexplosives were handled.  Highlight how explosives are safely handled and precautions taken to prevent an incident like this. Chronical the lives lost, hurt, and forever changed by the reckless behavior of the people, and  how many people are doing the same thing, but being "luckier" than others.

ren

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2025, 04:19:18 PM »
I have to disagree with this. Fireworks are legal in many places. The manufacturer should not be held responsible for the customer's using their product unsafely. That will lead to mass transit only as cars are used irresponsibly.  That being said, people need to realize that they are "playing " with explosives. They acquire enough to equal the explosive power of cases of dynamite, then treat it like a single firecracker. If a professional fireworks display that uses less than  half of what people acquire here, there are required to have explosive experts, secure containment, fire mitigation, and safety protocols in place. Here, we replace all that with alcohol. The youtube videos of new years here, shows there is obviously no enforcement, either on the day of celebration, or in the policing of importing explosives, probably due to corruption. But we all remember the disaster when the bunker of confiscated fireworks killed someone. As much as we need more enforcement, more emphasis needs to be put on the fires, destruction, and the loss of life, in a way that emphasizes, the irresponsible, and dangerous way theyexplosives were handled.  Highlight how explosives are safely handled and precautions taken to prevent an incident like this. Chronical the lives lost, hurt, and forever changed by the reckless behavior of the people, and  how many people are doing the same thing, but being "luckier" than others.

I was being facetious paralleling the anti gun strategy of suing gun manufacturers. In the case of illegal fireworks in Hawaii it is proven year-after-year that laws simply do not work. Legislators on their high horses think they can legislate the people but when they realize they can't they'll resort to more extreme ways of controlling the population as we shall see in 2025.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/cultural-tradition-or-deadly-risk-hawaii-grapples-with-illegal-fireworks-after-tragic-blast/

Wakai expects numerous bills to be introduced in the upcoming legislative session to address the illegal fireworks issue, but said pursuing civil penalties versus criminal might be more effective.

“So maybe that’ll be the consequence. You do that out of your house, we’re going to seize your house,” said Wakai. “I think if there’s consequences for bad behavior, you’re going to see a diminishing of interest in fireworks.”

And there appears to be agreement that laws without enforcement are meaningless and need to change.
Deeds Not Words

rpoL98

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2025, 04:43:44 PM »
I was being facetious paralleling the anti gun strategy of suing gun manufacturers. In the case of illegal fireworks in Hawaii it is proven year-after-year that laws simply do not work. Legislators on their high horses think they can legislate the people but when they realize they can't they'll resort to more extreme ways of controlling the population as we shall see in 2025.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/cultural-tradition-or-deadly-risk-hawaii-grapples-with-illegal-fireworks-after-tragic-blast/

Wakai expects numerous bills to be introduced in the upcoming legislative session to address the illegal fireworks issue, but said pursuing civil penalties versus criminal might be more effective.

“So maybe that’ll be the consequence. You do that out of your house, we’re going to seize your house,” said Wakai. “I think if there’s consequences for bad behavior, you’re going to see a diminishing of interest in fireworks.”

And there appears to be agreement that laws without enforcement are meaningless and need to change.

you think they'll increase the permit fee?  they never miss an opportunity to increase taxes/revenue, and that can be construed as "significant action".

ren

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2025, 05:16:08 PM »
you think they'll increase the permit fee?  they never miss an opportunity to increase taxes/revenue, and that can be construed as "significant action".

I'm not a sociologist, psychologist or legislator but as an everyday citizen observing this illicit behavior year after year, I can make the assumption that Oahu residents have a lot of money to "burn" throughout the year, perhaps this disposable income can be better used as tax money. With this revenue stream, the legislators will create a task force or govt agency, appoint their friends and give them minimum 6 figure salaries.
Problem is it will affect all of us whether we followed the law or not. Everyone will pay / be punished.
i.e. ONE honu with straw up its nose? - ban plastic straws, bags, containers. No follow through on how effective these bans are but these "eco friendly" companies suddenly pop out of nowhere to provide eco friendly solutions....
I think Hawaii voters are too stupid to see simple cause and effect, hence, we get the 2-faced, selfish, opportunistic legislators we deserve.

https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/ty-cullen-sentenced-to-2-years-in-prison/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/03/kalani-englishs-fall-from-grace-leaves-former-constituents-feeling-betrayed/

and the trickle down effects of having such legislators in positions of power and appointment

https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/11/former-honolulu-prosecutor-katherine-kealoha-sentenced-to-13-years-in-prison/

I think this illegal fireworks black market stretches far and deep. I wouldn't be surprised that some public officials whether elected or appointed are profiting immensely from the "traditional" demand. It is difficult to believe that the importation of the large volume of illegal fireworks goes unnoticed by Hawaii officials.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 05:22:25 PM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2025, 05:29:38 PM »
I'm not a sociologist, psychologist or legislator but as an everyday citizen observing this illicit behavior year after year, I can make the assumption that Oahu residents have a lot of money to "burn" throughout the year, perhaps this disposable income can be better used as tax money. With this revenue stream, the legislators will create a task force or govt agency, appoint their friends and give them minimum 6 figure salaries.
Problem is it will affect all of us whether we followed the law or not. Everyone will pay / be punished.
i.e. ONE honu with straw up its nose? - ban plastic straws, bags, containers. No follow through on how effective these bans are but these "eco friendly" companies suddenly pop out of nowhere to provide eco friendly solutions....
I think Hawaii voters are too stupid to see simple cause and effect, hence, we get the 2-faced, selfish, opportunistic legislators we deserve.

https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/ty-cullen-sentenced-to-2-years-in-prison/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/03/kalani-englishs-fall-from-grace-leaves-former-constituents-feeling-betrayed/

and the trickle down effects of having such legislators in positions of power and appointment

https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/11/former-honolulu-prosecutor-katherine-kealoha-sentenced-to-13-years-in-prison/

I think this illegal fireworks black market stretches far and deep. I wouldn't be surprised that some public officials whether elected or appointed are profiting immensely from the "traditional" demand. It is difficult to believe that the importation of the large volume of illegal fireworks goes unnoticed by Hawaii officials.

How about a reduction in state and federal benefits for anyone in the family caught breaking the fireworks bans and permit process?

If they have money to burn (literally and figuratively), then they don't need as much SNAP/EBT, WIC, or whatever else they are receiving.  The government should not be subsidizing prohibited activities.  Sort of a self-inflicted fine that lasts at least 12 months, then they get the subsidies restored unless they are caught again.  No different than being refused a space in homeless shelters if you don't follow the rules.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 01:10:45 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kalikikopa

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2025, 07:13:44 PM »
I was being facetious paralleling the anti gun strategy of suing gun manufacturers. In the case of illegal fireworks in Hawaii it is proven year-after-year that laws simply do not work. Legislators on their high horses think they can legislate the people but when they realize they can't they'll resort to more extreme ways of controlling the population as we shall see in 2025.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/cultural-tradition-or-deadly-risk-hawaii-grapples-with-illegal-fireworks-after-tragic-blast/

Wakai expects numerous bills to be introduced in the upcoming legislative session to address the illegal fireworks issue, but said pursuing civil penalties versus criminal might be more effective.

“So maybe that’ll be the consequence. You do that out of your house, we’re going to seize your house,” said Wakai. “I think if there’s consequences for bad behavior, you’re going to see a diminishing of interest in fireworks.”

And there appears to be agreement that laws without enforcement are meaningless and need to change.


Although I wholeheartedly agree that laws with no enforcement don't work, our legislatures will be hellbent on creating new laws. As far as being facetious, I don't believe you need to be. If the ones that want to control us, can 't prevent us from having what we want, they have no other choice than to make sure we can't get what we want. IE: eliminate the product.  My point was wifh fireworks, as well as firearms, the people with either needs to be responsible, educated on the hazards, and understand the risk, and risk mitigation. Simply put, KNOW WHAT THE F&^k YOU ARE DEALING WITH!!  So many people only see the pretty colors and not realize that the power in it is the same and sometimes more than dynamite. If more people realize that they may treat is as dynamite and show it more respect. Not have it in a cardboard box, on the driveway while they are throwing sparks into the air. Wishful thinking I'm sure, but I can imagine better results than saying again" it's illegal" ,

ren

Re: when is it enough?!
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2025, 07:36:03 PM »
Although I wholeheartedly agree that laws with no enforcement don't work, our legislatures will be hellbent on creating new laws. As far as being facetious, I don't believe you need to be. If the ones that want to control us, can 't prevent us from having what we want, they have no other choice than to make sure we can't get what we want. IE: eliminate the product.  My point was wifh fireworks, as well as firearms, the people with either needs to be responsible, educated on the hazards, and understand the risk, and risk mitigation. Simply put, KNOW WHAT THE F&^k YOU ARE DEALING WITH!!  So many people only see the pretty colors and not realize that the power in it is the same and sometimes more than dynamite. If more people realize that they may treat is as dynamite and show it more respect. Not have it in a cardboard box, on the driveway while they are throwing sparks into the air. Wishful thinking I'm sure, but I can imagine better results than saying again" it's illegal" ,

I agree! Flashpowder used in common fireworks become unstable when they are wet and when they age. Far more unstable than powder used in ammunition. One example is the tragedy at Waikele years ago. I just hope that we outgrow this fascination with fireworks. We could spend the money on more important things. If we cared so much for the homeless we could have fed them with all you can eat buffet for a very long time or house them with all that money burned on NYE. Or we could have built the rail to circle the island by now.
Deeds Not Words