Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range (Read 51186 times)

b.delpilar

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2010, 06:01:57 AM »
 :shaka:


   
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 12:20:52 AM by b.delpilar »

Heavies

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2010, 08:12:58 AM »
Quote
Not that my haole opinion is worth a damn here; I wasn't born or raised here, so what the hell do I know?  :grrr:

 :wtf:

What the f**k does that have to do with anything??  I am just trying to make a point that I didn't agree with someones suggestion that time limits might be an option! Why are you even trying to debate me if you don't even go to the range?

For all of your info to have 'Aloha' or the 'Aloha spirit' is NOT how people treat YOU, it is how YOU treat other people.

I don't know how this became an HAWAII SHIT TALKING SESSION, but you all must realize, no matter where you go in the world there are people who are nice, considerate, and will treat others with compassion, and there are those that don't give a F**K!  Handle it!


Well maybe my stupid hapa haole jap white injun ass doesn't know shit either.. :grrr:





 [/u]

2aHawaii

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2010, 12:30:18 PM »
For all of your info to have 'Aloha' or the 'Aloha spirit' is NOT how people treat YOU, it is how YOU treat other people.

Great advice.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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HiCarry

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2010, 02:14:42 PM »
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I have priorities in my life which revolve around maximizing family time in preparation for the deployment.
No problem, we all have to adjust our priorities based on our particular life circumstances. My problem is that you cannot say on one hand how much effort you put forth in securing 2A rights or trying to change the restrictive practices, and how that effort resulted in you being burnt out, but then say youdon't have the time to devote to issues. Which is it? 


Quote
This is a forum and if you are insulted then I apologize.  I tend to be blunt and at times not so diplomatic.  I just had very high expectations and needed to come down to reality.
Apology accepted. However, there is a difference between being "blunt" and making inaccurate accusations and disparaging remarks about those individuals that do devote their time and energy to the "cause."

Quote
I have not been on island very much but we are only here for a short time.  I do not have the time to set in for a long campaign with deployments in the future.  I guess I am just used to things moving faster and I make that know at times.  In fact,  I came to Hawaii to chill out, but it's not happening due to OPTEMPO once again.
Again, understandable. But your inability to find the time to get involved should not be protrayed as someone else's problem...like saying you fought "tooth and nail" to get an "audience" with me. 

 
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I'll try and make it to the next Fun Shoot, if I am still allowed.  If not, I truly understand.

Anyone who is a member of the HRA is welcome. We don't ban folks for expressing an opinion. I may call you on incorrect statements, but I won't "ban" you.
 
Quote
Yes you did offer, but I got the distinct impression that the NRA instructor course was needed and I did not want to violate any Hawaii State Laws.
You were offered an opportunity to expore alternate means to assist. You never got back to me. That's a lot different than being ignored or not being allowed to participate. 

Quote
I too have volunteered my time.  Not to throw a deuce, but I personally have volunteered over 39 months down range in various jobs in the middle east and I cannot tell you how many times we have missed major family events and what not.  I am not trying to get sympathy, but see if you can hold the line when your unit is extended for an additional four months after making it to 12.  How crappy is that?


No one, especially me, is comparing your military service to volunteering to help teach or otherwise promote 2A rights. I too have another job....one that frequently exceeds the "normal" 40 hours per week, and one that requires me to be available 24/7/365. I still volunteer a lot of my free time.

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I choose this job, so please do not tell me about volunteering time because unlike some of us, you get to go home and see your family after participating in gun related events.

No one is questioning your commitment to your JOB...and that's the operative term, JOB. Yeah, it sucks that you have to be away or don't get to go home. I appreciate it as I do the efforts of all our service members.

Quote
Guys, the world is an ugly place and if you can not even take an email with a grain of salt, how are you going to react in a gunfight or protect your love ones.  I truly wonder?

Another jab to those of us less "high speed" than you. Just because I call you for making inaccurate statments and disparaging remarks you want to equate that to my ability to respond to a lethal threat? I hate to break it to you Mr. High speed, but I have been involved in three different shooting incidents. None of which occured while I was armed. Not only did I survive, but in the last one I was responsible for an entire department that came under fire from a ICE head....no one died on my shift and the gunwoman was caught....I am confident in my skills, both firearms related and otherwise, thank you very much.   


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I understand.  I told you I needed to get training in the ways of the NRA.
Yep, but you didn't. And regardless of the reasons for not doing so, that was your call....the ability of the organizations you maligned had nothing to do with it....or any of the other complaints you espoused. 
 
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Look Gents, I am not going to stop my opinions, if you got an issue PM me because these are just opinions and I am not try to torpedo anyone.  Not my intent.  If you want touchy freely stuff then will adjust fire for the sake of being respectful.
No one is asking that you stop providing your opinion. But I would like you to base any future allegations on facts, not just how you feel.
 
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However, I am glad that you all are enlightening me about what the clubs are doing because the perception is completely different.  Especially when it's coming from LEO's, certain shop owners, and military personal of whom I have spoken to over the year.
Funny thing about perception...it is often influenced by where you are sitting...so come on down and sit at an HRA board meeting...I'm betting your perception will change.

Quote
Nobodies lives are at stake and these are just words.
Interesting irony in that statement...first, many of us do believe this is a matter of life and death. My ability to protect myself and my loved ones is indeed about placing lives needlessly at risk. And that is why I fight so hard and contribute so much of my time to the efforts to regain our 2A rights....words can be used to encourage or to discourage and I got the distinct yours were doing the latter....and that is what upset me. Especially since you professed to devote so much time an effor tto change things when in reality your efforts were token attempts. You complained that the organizations here were just speaking the "words" and not really trying....well what are you doing?

Alex Europa

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2010, 04:59:18 PM »
Geeze, I'm all jacked up...posted to wrong thread.

b.delpilar

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2010, 06:22:44 PM »
 :wtf:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 12:21:23 AM by b.delpilar »

Old Guy

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2010, 10:18:18 PM »
When you come "home" to Hawaii and want to get wet in the dirty world of politics, look us up.
 
I've been around long enough to offend lot of people because of what I say or do.  Never stopped me.
 
About shooting, your kind of shooting is different from "our" kind.  As instructors we do NOT teach house clearing, or other combat
tactics.  There is a big Difference.
 
Just What kind of Shooting "skills" do you want to teach to a beginning new shooter, who has never handled a firearm before?
 
Our kind of shooting is Defensive in nature.  I'm Presuming that yours is Offensive, Shoot to Kill, Not shoot to Stop.
 
The Wife and I may not be up to your "Level" of shooting speed, but I can Honestly say, given the kinds of "stuff" that happens here
in Hawaii as far as violence against the general public is concerned, the Wife and I feel Confident in Our Abilities to handle things.
 
Thank you for serving. 
 
Given how you feel and what you've been thru, maybe it's time you got out of the military into a less stressful life and wind down. 

nf9648

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2010, 10:45:09 PM »
I found another 150+ rounds of 5.56 to burn off in the house, so I gotta dirty a rifle one more time.  Problem is, I dont get off work til 2 and the range closes at 3...

vooduchikn

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2010, 11:17:14 PM »
When you come "home" to Hawaii and want to get wet in the dirty world of politics, look us up.
 
I've been around long enough to offend lot of people because of what I say or do.  Never stopped me.
 
About shooting, your kind of shooting is different from "our" kind.  As instructors we do NOT teach house clearing, or other combat
tactics.  There is a big Difference.
 
Just What kind of Shooting "skills" do you want to teach to a beginning new shooter, who has never handled a firearm before?
 
Our kind of shooting is Defensive in nature.  I'm Presuming that yours is Offensive, Shoot to Kill, Not shoot to Stop.
 
The Wife and I may not be up to your "Level" of shooting speed, but I can Honestly say, given the kinds of "stuff" that happens here
in Hawaii as far as violence against the general public is concerned, the Wife and I feel Confident in Our Abilities to handle things.
 
Thank you for serving. 
 
Given how you feel and what you've been thru, maybe it's time you got out of the military into a less stressful life and wind down.

Old Guy

You and your wife sound prepared for the day none of us really want to ever happen and pray even more it doesn't happen in a state that renders you defenseless unless you are breaking the law. Sounds like the kind of woman I have in my life. She has my back, I have hers. We both preach and practice, live and breathe the same air. I have had this happen in my family and was glad that it was in a state that fully supports 2a, otherwise, I would have buried a brother.

While I am somewhat new to this forum, I am not new to the principles of what I think it was created for. I am not from this state, but i have been here (with the exception of 3 years) for for my entire 18 year career in the military. All of it not by choice and while i do love this place, I am confused as hell about the governing body and why it is as corrupt and disorganized as it is, and WHY it continues down this path.

  I would like to thank you for  your sage advice to the forum. I for one  respect the hell out of "most" of my elders. i consider my self young  in this world even though i am pushing forty, it was after all my  father and older influences in my life that helped steer the rudder for  me into the world of firearms, survivalism, and fighting for what you  believe in amongst seemingly insurmountable political odds.

Maybe with your years of experience, wisdom, and connections to the community, you could provide some constructive ways to help 2A move this forum on to action. Please understand I am in no way saying that your comments are not constructive,  but this forum seems to be a lot people ready to move on to action and I read damn near every post (and you post a lot!) and the only thing we are lacking is ORGANIZATION.

Ideas or thoughts?

Lets look down the road, not in the rear view....

Me ka `oia `i`o

Chuck
Relax, I've banned myself..

b.delpilar

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2010, 11:38:29 PM »
 :closed:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 12:22:17 AM by b.delpilar »

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2010, 07:20:38 AM »
"Shoot to kill" vs "Shoot to stop":  To me, they are the same except in a court of law.  I can see how you view a defensive/offensive situation.  Just make sure your mindset is right and hit the dang target you intend to stop, know what it is behind it, be prepared to pay out,  and get a good lawyer.  I am serious about what I teach because one of my former students was involved in an altercation.  He survived because of his mindset.  I'll leave it at that. 

I totally agree with that statement. Of course you need to get it in your mind that you intended to stop them because anytime you are shooting someone, there is the possibility of killing that person. The standard procedure is to shoot center of mass because it is the largest target and should be able to stop them. No difference in action, only in court.

b.delpilar - I'll send you a PM when I get a chance later today.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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Alex Europa

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2010, 07:37:18 AM »
My how this thread has digressed...oh well, I guess I'll continue throwing it off-course.

To me, "shoot to kill" vs. "shoot to stop" is more than an argument over semantics. It goes back to mindset and proper training. I can put 2 bullets through a guy's heart and 1 through each lung-effectively killing him-however there is still enough oxygen in his blood to allow him to kill me if his will is strong enough. We train to "shoot to stop" to ensure that we are able to walk away from the conflict, whether that means 1 grazing shot across the arm, or emptying a magazine (or two) into a mujaheddin doped up on opium...the same holds true in a home/personal defense scenario.

- Alex

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2010, 07:45:37 AM »
I found another 150+ rounds of 5.56 to burn off in the house, so I gotta dirty a rifle one more time.  Problem is, I dont get off work til 2 and the range closes at 3...

Gah, that is a problem. You won't even have a chance to set up a frame.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

nf9648

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2010, 03:59:47 PM »
My how this thread has digressed...oh well, I guess I'll continue throwing it off-course.

To me, "shoot to kill" vs. "shoot to stop" is more than an argument over semantics. It goes back to mindset and proper training. I can put 2 bullets through a guy's heart and 1 through each lung-effectively killing him-however there is still enough oxygen in his blood to allow him to kill me if his will is strong enough. We train to "shoot to stop" to ensure that we are able to walk away from the conflict, whether that means 1 grazing shot across the arm, or emptying a magazine (or two) into a mujaheddin doped up on opium...the same holds true in a home/personal defense scenario.

- Alex

Studies have shown that it can take an aweful long time for someone to become incapacitated from blood loss, unless you get a good CNS hit the bad guy is going to remain a threat regardless of how many rounds you put through his lungs or heart.  Keep shooting until the threat goes down, and keep the threat covered until first responders are on scene to take over.

I found another 150+ rounds of 5.56 to burn off in the house, so I gotta dirty a rifle one more time.  Problem is, I dont get off work til 2 and the range closes at 3...

Gah, that is a problem. You won't even have a chance to set up a frame.

I dont bring a frame when I shoot so thats wont be an issue, its just having enough time to lay down and get setup to shoot.  Worse comes to worst I can burn another day of sick leave.

b.delpilar

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Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2010, 02:28:53 AM »
Fellow Tacticool Shooters Only - Despite what OG and the rest of some local organizations believe WRT to "stopping the threat",  Try combining the "Bill Drill" and Tueller drill and see how fast you can neutralize the threat. 


Description of both techniques are located below:


http://defendyourself101.ca/articles/hidden-lesson-tueller-drill (explanation)


"Bill Drill" revisited (example)


Imagine your life is in danger! To stop the "Rush" you need to DRAW, EXTEND, TOUCH, PRESS.....now......AIM, PRESS, RECOVER x 6's or until the threat is neutralized.   Try to get it under 1.5 seconds.  Sounds easy , but it's not...... so practice your rhythm drills when you get the fundamentals down, and see if you can step off the "line of attack" when you build up to it .   :wave:


Take care ya'll!


It was pleasure to participate on this post.  Support 2A Hawaii folks!  The creator of this site is on point!


MR. HIGHSPEED


P.S.  I like how that sounds........thanks HIC

Old Guy

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2010, 05:17:09 PM »
Over 15 years ago I did the Tueller drill for a Star-Bulletin Editor, she's Pro 2A and slid a few of my Letters to the Editor for publication.
Sgt Tueller is now a Lt and I think long Retired.
 
If you find a old time MPPL member, ask him about the "Hauula Highway Patrol" drill we did (30 years ago).  THAT was fun.
Ask him about the guy that ALWAYS ran a M-57 41 magnum with heavy "Target" loads, I'd be interested in the feedback.
 
There are reasons I say what I say.  Not for world wide publication.
 
Again, we teach Handgun 100.  Not Combat Handgun 400.
 
We teach what is Necessary, by State Law, to qualify for Handgun Ownership here in Hawaii.
If the New gun owner Wants to go on into Higher levels, we do Not discourage that.  We Encourage it.
 
But, FIRST, that person has to learn How to SAFELY handle a firearm.
 
We teach First Steps. 
 
Again, What is it that YOU Want to Teach a new Never handled a firearm kind of unsure timid female?
 
If you want to teach Combat House cleaning, street fighting, urban warfare, run n gun stuff.
 
GO ELSEWHERE.  LIFE is not what you want.  Start your own school. 
 
"I just don't have a Need for it, Never said I didn't know how to use one"  Mathew Quigley, from "Quigley Down Under"
 
 
 

Heavies

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2010, 08:28:12 PM »
My, how we have gotten off topic a little. :o

Sorry about that, I think I had a little something to do with it. :P

Posted this in the other range thread as well...

Well, I finally got a chance to get to the range today.  I wanted to   make a flier that would direct people to the mayors office to complain   about the hours, but then I thought the range guys might not like   something so political on the bulletin boards.  They have been telling   many to refer to the last issue of the HRA newsletter.  So, in my flier,   I direct any persons wanting to file complaints, or discuss other   firearms topics to view this web site.  Also, maybe we can bring even   more new blood to help us on or mission. ;D
 
  I'll try to pass out more of those stickers too if I get a chance.
 
 
 

vooduchikn

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2010, 08:52:51 PM »
My, how we have gotten off topic a little. :o

Sorry about that, I think I had a little something to do with it. :P

Posted this in the other range thread as well...

Well, I finally got a chance to get to the range today.  I wanted to   make a flier that would direct people to the mayors office to complain   about the hours, but then I thought the range guys might not like   something so political on the bulletin boards.  They have been telling   many to refer to the last issue of the HRA newsletter.  So, in my flier,   I direct any persons wanting to file complaints, or discuss other   firearms topics to view this web site.  Also, maybe we can bring even   more new blood to help us on or mission. ;D
 
  I'll try to pass out more of those stickers too if I get a chance.
 
 
 

This is cool. I wonder if "Reduced range hours...again" would draw more attention to the problem? Just a suggestion.

Chuck
Relax, I've banned myself..

Heavies

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2010, 09:22:06 PM »
Quote
I wonder if "Reduced range hours...again" would draw more attention to the problem? Just a suggestion.

Now why didn't I think of that? :P   My English sucks... :wacko:

Old Guy

Re: Reduced Hours of Operations @ Koko Head Shooting Range
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2010, 11:43:30 PM »
Actually, Personally, I would not be satisfied with just going back to what was.
 
I'd rather go on the "offensive" so to speak and ask/demand(?) More range hours.
 
More Physical improvements.
 
The range install lights like at tennis courts (on a timer maybe?), open at nights for night shoots.
 
Attract more shooters who can't shoot during weekdays.
 
Have a large open air pavillion with lights for club events.  I would love to have a BBQ follwed by a night fun shoot.
 
Push Parks for future Plans they may have.  IF they do demand your input.
 
Yep, to do that, more new members is necessary.
 
Especially Women.  You guys who grumble about stuff oriented to women, better save your pennies for when the Significant
other ask you to buy her a new gun.  I can honestly say Change is coming next year.