Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 23253 times)

Aiea78

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #140 on: July 12, 2013, 11:25:48 PM »
That's another Agent if I recall.

There's the fight that brought it on then.   I wish Deedy didn't pull his firearm then we'd be joking about these 2 keystone cops getting beat up.  I just don't see a life or death struggle like Zimmerman had. 
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pj_benn

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #141 on: July 13, 2013, 02:38:59 AM »
I'm talking about the civilian sector son.

I know where I've been and what I've done.
Oh my bad I thought 'human nature' referred to all humans not just civilian humans lol.

It was just a joke braddah

Funtimes

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #142 on: July 13, 2013, 06:58:33 AM »
What did you do to piss him off like that and how did you react ?

I'm seriously curious and, less seriously, Why didn't he just pull you over and detain you for 48 hours and put a catheter in you ?

you're lucky you weren't shot. 

Are we straying off topic ?  :stopjack:
It was at a DUI Checkpoint.

 What lead to this was I had rolled my window down 1" and did absolutely nothing (and I mean, nothing... no talking, no moving, nothing.  I just sat back with registration etc. in hand and rest my head lol). .  I let him know when he was done wasting time trying to talk to me, I will give him my license and registration. I didn't react (Other then immediately dialing an attorney friend) and getting the iphone on record.

Hawaii doesn't have as much of a watered down 4th amendment as other states (it's actually quite strong), so he needs to be able to articulate the reason for asking me out of the vehicle.  In other states, 'officer safety' is the reason to get you out of the car. 


surfmaster

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #143 on: July 13, 2013, 08:27:20 AM »
Here's a Hawaii News Now article with an analysis by an agent who was involved in three shootings:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/22830885/former-federal-agent-analyzes-deedy-video

Jl808

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #144 on: July 13, 2013, 11:26:23 AM »
Good commentary by Agent Aiu. Thanks for posting the link, surfmaster.
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walangkatapat

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #145 on: July 13, 2013, 12:16:05 PM »
Bottom line is he shouldn't have got involved,  and by the other agent telling him about that whole locals don't like haoles he left that conversation already prejudice. 

Kingkeoni

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #146 on: July 13, 2013, 12:22:01 PM »
Bottom line is he shouldn't have got involved,  and by the other agent telling him about that whole locals don't like haoles he left that conversation already prejudice.

Hopefully the jury is more objective than this.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

walangkatapat

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #147 on: July 13, 2013, 12:34:49 PM »
Hahaha yea

moosed

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #148 on: July 13, 2013, 12:56:54 PM »
"Man, I don't even have an opinion!"

-- Marvin's last words

When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

aieahound

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #149 on: July 13, 2013, 01:08:56 PM »
Moosed,

Your back !

Of course you have an opinion.
Apparently I, or someone here, offended you. ( since you deleted all your posts in this thread )

Don't take your ball and go home. Opinions are what make this forum go around.   :shaka:
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment

moosed

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2013, 01:57:51 PM »
Moosed,

Your back !

Of course you have an opinion.
Apparently I, or someone here, offended you. ( since you deleted all your posts in this thread )

Don't take your ball and go home. Opinions are what make this forum go around.   :shaka:

Reading others' comments to and about me, it would appear my communication style comes off as "arrogant and snobbish".  I decided it's better to not waste everyone's time being the lightning rod for a couple of members who think personal attacks and piling on are okay here..

Thanks for the invite, but I have better things in my life going on than getting sucked into a mud slinging contest.

It only takes a couple of bad apples to ruin the day for everyone else.  Better that I just sit quietly and prevent the off-topic personal insults.

Mahalo!   :shaka:
When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

Q

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2013, 02:47:07 PM »
IF DEEDY GETS CONVICTED IT WILL BE A SAD DAY FOR LAWR ENFORCEMENT. It'll be "free for all off" for off duty lawr enforcement. I hope he gets set free. He( "the DOA guy") picked on the wrong guy at the wrong time and got his a$$ kilt. The bully got what he deserved. Too many times I've seen locals do the same to lawr enforcement. Time to stop. They deserve our respect and honor. Any dis-agreements?

I am speaking as both a 'local' and someone who has been overseas when I say that there is an obvious ego problem here in Hawaii. I never really 'fit in' with my peers, which is why I never really adopted that attitude of 'what bra, like beef?!' just to prove a point, or establish dominance over another individual. I'm happy I did, because there were numerous occasions, while on the mainland and overseas, where that kind of attitude could have resulted in me being killed.

The problem here is that because many people who have never experienced life, specifically violence, outside of Hawaii, they will never expect how people may defend themselves, nor will they ever understand why individuals may escalate to higher levels of force to do so; i.e. presentation/application of deadly force. There is a predisposed mentality that  beat someone up and that's that. But speaking from experience, its really not like that anywhere else in the country. Sure, you have fights and what not; but from my experiences, I have learned to expect the worst possible outcome, which is why I always opt to deescalate a situation and be the bigger man at the expense of my pride, unless my life or the lives of my loved ones are on the line.

I can tell you that working as an MP, I was extremely confident with my deescalation techniques and only had to escalate to higher levels of force on a few occasions because of my approach and attitude when dealing with perps or persons of interest. However, I can also tell you that my partner, a 5'1, 115# woman, had to escalate to presentation of deadly force on several occasions, in the same type of scenarios, because many of the individuals she interacted with thought they could intimidate/overpower her because of her size, and she honestly felt she was in danger.

Case in point : Ego/pride + underestimating how someone (who honestly fears for their life) will react = recipe for disaster.

I honestly feel that Elderts, regardless of if he or Deedy was wrong, should have deescalated or avoided the situation. But from my experience amongst my peers, deescalation is definitely not something encouraged within our local society.
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am...Just one bad day."

walangkatapat

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2013, 03:16:16 PM »
Aye sus ... the only problem I personally don't like about this is he was warned by his colleague and imo as a professional in what he does he should've think twice about the situation. He left his hotel knowingly about how "some" locals can be so he was already looking for a "fuck haole" alternation.  It's like any place you go in the USA you'll hear people warn you about going to certain places in certain states. What was he expecting that wee hours in the morning, as law enformance he know what he was getting his self into  alot of us been to Vegas,  LA, NY etc there or in Hawaii it's the same thing people out at that time are either drunk , partying or trying to get some pussy. In deedys case he was trying to get some pussy and wanted to play hero n look good. Even superman put away his cape sometimes, I'm not saying deedy was right or wrong but as a professional he knew the consequences of being out that late and he even was warned. 

ren

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2013, 03:39:50 PM »
Aye sus ... the only problem I personally don't like about this is he was warned by his colleague and imo as a professional in what he does he should've think twice about the situation. He left his hotel knowingly about how "some" locals can be so he was already looking for a "fuck haole" alternation.  It's like any place you go in the USA you'll hear people warn you about going to certain places in certain states. What was he expecting that wee hours in the morning, as law enformance he know what he was getting his self into  alot of us been to Vegas,  LA, NY etc there or in Hawaii it's the same thing people out at that time are either drunk , partying or trying to get some pussy. In deedys case he was trying to get some pussy and wanted to play hero n look good. Even superman put away his cape sometimes, I'm not saying deedy was right or wrong but as a professional he knew the consequences of being out that late and he even was warned.

 :wacko: :wtf:
Forget the past and future.  The round in the gun is the most important thing that has happened, or will happen in your life.

walangkatapat

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2013, 04:08:43 PM »
:wacko: :wtf:

That's my opinion bakla hhahaha everybody like be critics of every post hahahahaha

Q

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2013, 05:44:07 PM »
Aye sus ... the only problem I personally don't like about this is he was warned by his colleague and imo as a professional in what he does he should've think twice about the situation. He left his hotel knowingly about how "some" locals can be so he was already looking for a "fuck haole" alternation.  It's like any place you go in the USA you'll hear people warn you about going to certain places in certain states. What was he expecting that wee hours in the morning, as law enformance he know what he was getting his self into  alot of us been to Vegas,  LA, NY etc there or in Hawaii it's the same thing people out at that time are either drunk , partying or trying to get some pussy. In deedys case he was trying to get some pussy and wanted to play hero n look good. Even superman put away his cape sometimes, I'm not saying deedy was right or wrong but as a professional he knew the consequences of being out that late and he even was warned.

So what I'm getting from this quote is: "He knew that locals don't like haole's, so its his fault".

You know, I liked to hang around downtown in seattle; nice atmosphere, nice people. But there was always those dumbass people who thought soldiers were baby killers, and like to start fights with us just because of our occupation. In fact, the first time I ever got jumped in my entire life was by a gang of anti-military assholes, who gave me the worst beating in my entire life. Does that mean I should have avoided Seattle completely? NO. I have the right to live my life, and should have the ability to enjoy the locales and events of any place I want; that's the true purpose of carrying a firearm is about: to ensure that I have the ability to enjoy my life without anyone trying to encroach upon it. I simply got my CCW in Washington, and continued to go to the places I wanted to.

What you are suggesting is that people live in fear, which is something I, and many others, will refuse to do. This is our home, and we have every right to go and do whatever we want within the confines of the law. If someone wants to encroach on myself or my loved ones, then they better be fully prepared for what might happen, which obviously the 'victim' didn't do.

BTW, might want to tone down the language.  No need for obscene words to prove your point. :shaka:
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am...Just one bad day."

ren

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2013, 06:13:54 PM »
That's my opinion bakla hhahaha everybody like be critics of every post hahahahaha

No need for names around here troll.
Forget the past and future.  The round in the gun is the most important thing that has happened, or will happen in your life.

HUCKLEBUCK

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2013, 08:27:35 PM »

I am speaking as both a 'local' and someone who has been overseas when I say that there is an obvious ego problem here in Hawaii. I never really 'fit in' with my peers, which is why I never really adopted that attitude of 'what bra, like beef?!' just to prove a point, or establish dominance over another individual. I'm happy I did, because there were numerous occasions, while on the mainland and overseas, where that kind of attitude could have resulted in me being killed.

The problem here is that because many people who have never experienced life, specifically violence, outside of Hawaii, they will never expect how people may defend themselves, nor will they ever understand why individuals may escalate to higher levels of force to do so; i.e. presentation/application of deadly force. There is a predisposed mentality that  beat someone up and that's that. But speaking from experience, its really not like that anywhere else in the country. Sure, you have fights and what not; but from my experiences, I have learned to expect the worst possible outcome, which is why I always opt to deescalate a situation and be the bigger man at the expense of my pride, unless my life or the lives of my loved ones are on the line.

I can tell you that working as an MP, I was extremely confident with my deescalation techniques and only had to escalate to higher levels of force on a few occasions because of my approach and attitude when dealing with perps or persons of interest. However, I can also tell you that my partner, a 5'1, 115# woman, had to escalate to presentation of deadly force on several occasions, in the same type of scenarios, because many of the individuals she interacted with thought they could intimidate/overpower her because of her size, and she honestly felt she was in danger.

Case in point : Ego/pride + underestimating how someone (who honestly fears for their life) will react = recipe for disaster.

I honestly feel that Elderts, regardless of if he or Deedy was wrong, should have deescalated or avoided the situation. But from my experience amongst my peers, deescalation is definitely not something encouraged within our local society.
Finally.....beautifully said!
I can't tell you how many times I've thought to my self, "man, if he did that where I come from he'd get killed".  The whole 'save face' or 'don't let someone make you look like a punk' culture is what causes virtually all black-on-black murder in ghettos in the mainland, and the 'what brah, like beef?' MO in Hawaii is the local analogue.  That's what got Elderts killed - and I'm not drawing any conclusions about Deedy's guilt or innocence - I'm just sayin..... 

HUCKLEBUCK

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2013, 08:38:30 PM »


.....BTW, might want to tone down the language.  No need for obscene words to prove your point. :shaka:
Q.....two things:
1) is it against forum rules to use obscenities when they are not directed towards a user?  I mean everybody writes "f'ing haole" and its ok; but in a context, if someone writes "fucking haole", that's offensive?  I'm politely asking seriously; I'm not being a wise guy here.

Secondly, in a similar vein, if someone is just expressing themselves with obscenities but not towards anyone - just to convey emotion - is that a violation of forum rules?  Again, I ask cause I feel that if someone is not being abusive - if the language is either a quote or a tool to convey emotion - then isn't it protected forum speech?
:shaka:

Q

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #159 on: July 13, 2013, 08:50:10 PM »
Q.....two things:
1) is it against forum rules to use obscenities when they are not directed towards a user?  I mean everybody writes "f'ing haole" and its ok; but in a context, if someone writes "fucking haole", that's offensive?  I'm politely asking seriously; I'm not being a wise guy here.

Secondly, in a similar vein, if someone is just expressing themselves with obscenities but not towards anyone - just to convey emotion - is that a violation of forum rules?  Again, I ask cause I feel that if someone is not being abusive - if the language is either a quote or a tool to convey emotion - then isn't it protected forum speech?
:shaka:

Not sure about the obscenity rules, but the way that guy was talking was just ridiculous about Deedy's motives; most people here deliver their arguments in a well mannered fashion, so I suspect that dude was a troll.
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am...Just one bad day."