1. 2aHawaii
  2. General Topics
  3. Legal and Activism
  4. Deedy Trial - Injustice?
Print
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 33

Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 238175 times)

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2013, 01:48:29 PM »
Quote from: moosed on July 11, 2013, 12:26:33 PM
Tell the jury to go home, and tell Deedy he's free to go.  Hucklebuck has just solved the case!  No need for forensics, witnesses, or evidence.

That sure saved us alot of time and tax dollars!!  Thanks!!   :shaka:

 :popcorn:

 :stopjack:
Logged

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2013, 02:02:37 PM »
Quote from: Jl808 on July 11, 2013, 08:21:28 AM
The video with the other angle shows something that wasn't on the first video.. where Deedy goes up to the sitting Elderts and "talks" with him. 

Again, not sure what was said that night at that McDonalds but the moment 2 people decide to engage in a stupid "monkey dance", one can no longer really be saying that they were acting in self defense.

Did Deedy identify himself as a LEO to Elderts?  What would a LEO have said?

In the use of deadly force, one should show that there were no other options for avoiding, escaping or de-escalating the situation.  If Deedy was involved in escalating the situation, then self defense argument is a no go.  If he was drunk, then his judgment would be impaired and not fit for duty. 

Like mnpfamily, I also would like to know what is SOP for the aftermath of investigating officers involved in a fatal shooting.  Drug test? Alcohol test?  If an off-duty HPD officer was in Deedy's place, what kind of process would he have had to undergo?

[edit] woohoo!  1000th post!   ;D


Good points Jl808 and ones that apply to private citizens, however we need to remember that as a LEO, they can do things that we cannot as private citizens.  If this was a private citizen with a CCW he'd be in trouble because he is contributory to the altercation.........in other words why not just walk away and call the police/LEO.

In Deedy's case he can and does act as a LEO and therefore may not be able to walk away.

This said, without sound it's really difficult to determine what was happening and eye witnesses are notoriously inaccurate on what happens.  IMHO there's usually my side/his side and the truth usually lies somewhere in between those two extremes.
Logged

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2013, 02:16:00 PM »
Quote from: Jl808 on July 11, 2013, 10:25:00 AM
Good point, KK.  Goooood point.

The Waimanalo guy was the guy who was standing next to a stolen vehicle and got hog-tied by HPD? 

This one?  The one that didn't suffer any "assaultive" injuries?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20130604_Investigation_started_into_incident_that_leaves_man_unresponsive.html?id=210196521

Couple of things.
1.  No assaultive injuries was further clarified by the Medical Examiner to mean that the wounds were consistent with restraint type force (I guess as opposed to puching/kicking/etc. a guy).
2.  See link below.  Per this story some of his injuries could have been from an altercation prior to the involvement of police.  Not saying the police did or didn't kick the crap out of this guy, but just saying the case isn't so cut and dried as we might be led to believe.

http://www.khon2.com/2013/06/12/attorney-says-third-party-involved-in-kaneohe-mans-death/
Logged

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2013, 02:29:52 PM »
Quote from: moosed on July 11, 2013, 01:51:52 PM
Like everyone else?  Not me.  I prefer to base my opinion on substantiated facts, something we rarely get in the media now.  So far, we're getting just enough to tease the public viewing audience so they tune in for the next episode.

I agree, we need to hear the whole story.

It'll be interesting to hear what law Elderts was breaking that required LEO intervention.  Other than being a dick. He was sitting at a table when approached.

He didn't appear violent in the video when Deedy approached him. While his girlfriend was trying to pull Deedy away.
Why not tell him to get his ass on the ground and put his hands behind his back. credentials and gun out, until HPD arrives if he was breaking the law ?
Did he tell anyone to call 911 after being assaulted and knocked on his ass ? 

It's posible it was self-defense on the part of Elderts after Deedy fired shots that missed and Elderts charged him. He didn't hit him until the third shot by all accounts.

What would the members here do if shots were fired at them from close range ?  LEO or not. ?

Hopefully we hear from Shawn Medeiros, the people behind the counter and the guy who was being harassed.
Logged

ImKu

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2013, 03:44:30 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on July 11, 2013, 02:29:52 PM

What would the members here do if shots were fired at them from close range ?  LEO or not. ?




I usually just keep on being awesome   8)

ok, sorry...

 :stopjack:
Logged
The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it.
- Bhagavad Gita

mnpfamily

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2013, 04:20:04 PM »
If he had alcohol in his system, he should not have been carrying a firearm, and should not have been on-duty or acting in that capacity.  If he did not have alcohol in his system, he should've taken the test. 
The allegations that fights will escalate to someone getting shot, especially when the possibility that alcohol consumption by the person carrying the firearm cannot be ruled out, is one of the reasons often cited by those who are opposed to concealed carry.  As one who is in favor of concealed carry rights, I can think of several instances where a properly trained citizen carrying a concealed firearm may have been able to favorably change the outcome of a violent encounter, even right here in Hawaii,  however this one incident, in my opinion plays right into the hands of those opposed to concealed carry, perhaps even more than the Zimmerman case.   
Logged

Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on July 11, 2013, 02:29:52 PM
I agree, we need to hear the whole story.  +1

It'll be interesting to hear what law Elderts was breaking that required LEO intervention.  Other than being a dick. He was sitting at a table when approached.
Often times just being a dick will illicit LEO intervention


It's posible it was self-defense on the part of Elderts after Deedy fired shots that missed and Elderts charged him. He didn't hit him until the third shot by all accounts.
I'm calling B.S. on this one. Nobody runs back at someone after they've been shot at, it's not human nature.

What would the members here do if shots were fired at them from close range ?  LEO or not. ?
Take cover or get the hell out. Certainly not run unarmed back at the guy firing at me.

Logged
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

HUCKLEBUCK

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2013, 07:50:17 PM »

Quote from: Kingkeoni on July 11, 2013, 07:42:59 PM
Typical blame shifting.

You should listen to your own advice.

This thread has nothing to do with me, it's about your snobbish condescending remarks that you post.

But I understand how it hurts your feelings to hear it so you lash out.

I forgive you.

Well said, Kingkeoni!
Logged

Q

>:D
« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2013, 09:20:10 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:46:35 PM by Q »
Logged

Heavies

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2013, 09:43:24 PM »
 :stopjack:
Logged

Aiea78

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
  • Total likes: 99
  • Grab em by the handles
  • Referrals: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2013, 10:18:33 PM »
Well so much for my key witness, skinny jeans hipster.  Says he had 3 shots & a pitcher and didn't remember anything.  Believe it or not. 
Logged
Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
Proud Member 2016 2a Day Dozen open holster carry crew yo

Hi state

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2013, 10:34:34 PM »
Quote from: Aiea78 on July 11, 2013, 10:18:33 PM
Well so much for my key witness, skinny jeans hipster.  Says he had 3 shots & a pitcher and didn't remember anything.  Believe it or not.
So Deedy confronted shot and killed Elderts for some one who was drunk, didn't ask for help, didn't feel threatened and didn't remember anything. And people wonder why there is a stigma for "haoles" from the mainland that get into everyone's business. What a waist of a life
Logged

HUCKLEBUCK

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2013, 12:09:01 AM »
And nuttin fo nuttin.....but what about braddah? Da security guard who look like he was waiting fo da hele-on, leaning on the soda machine while haole n kolohe scrap....exactly why did they hire him?
Logged

Aiea78

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
  • Total likes: 99
  • Grab em by the handles
  • Referrals: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2013, 01:34:22 AM »
Quote from: Hi state on July 11, 2013, 10:34:34 PM
So Deedy confronted shot and killed Elderts for some one who was drunk, didn't ask for help, didn't feel threatened and didn't remember anything. And people wonder why there is a stigma for "haoles" from the mainland that get into everyone's business. What a waist of a life

No I didn't mean that.  Only that he was a witness.  Hipster was sitting down during the action, the other guy was getting pounded over by the garbage can.  That was who Deedy was trying to protect?
Logged
Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
Proud Member 2016 2a Day Dozen open holster carry crew yo

Mr. Farknocker

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2013, 07:50:28 AM »
Quote from: ImKu on July 11, 2013, 03:44:30 PM


I usually just keep on being awesome   8)

ok, sorry...

 :stopjack:



Don't mean to derail this thread but don't those bullets look like hard cast without gas checks? Didn't know Agent Smith and his entourage were reloaders. Changes my whole perspective on the movie. No, really.
Logged

oldfart

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2013, 08:37:06 AM »
I watched the surveillance video.
1-While Elderts was ordering food, Deedy stood up and was watching him.
2-Elderts sat down and was waiting for his order. BY HIMSELF.
3- Then Deedy approached Elderts and initiated contact.

The key here is that Elderts was not bothering anybody at the moment that Deedy approached him.

According to what I see in the video, Elderts did nothing to justify LEO intervention.

One thing that bothers me is that Deedy reaches behind his right hip at the outset of his contact.
He might have been reaching for his LEO badge, but you all should watch it for yourself.

The video just reinforces my opinion that I stated earlier that Deedy was not adhering to that "higher standard of conduct".
Logged
What, Me Worry?

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2013, 11:04:14 AM »
Quote from: mnpfamily on July 11, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
If he had alcohol in his system, he should not have been carrying a firearm, and should not have been on-duty or acting in that capacity.  If he did not have alcohol in his system, he should've taken the test. 
The allegations that fights will escalate to someone getting shot, especially when the possibility that alcohol consumption by the person carrying the firearm cannot be ruled out, is one of the reasons often cited by those who are opposed to concealed carry.  As one who is in favor of concealed carry rights, I can think of several instances where a properly trained citizen carrying a concealed firearm may have been able to favorably change the outcome of a violent encounter, even right here in Hawaii,  however this one incident, in my opinion plays right into the hands of those opposed to concealed carry, perhaps even more than the Zimmerman case.


There needs to be a distinction between a private citizen with CCW and and LEO carrying.  Not the same thing.

A private citizen can walk away and LEO may not be able to walk away.  Again video is bad, there's no audio, and eyewitnesses are notoriously inaccurate so we don't know for sure what was said and when it was said.
Logged

Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2013, 11:24:33 AM »
I don't know if any of you are watching the trial but so far it looks like they're railroading Deedy.
Logged
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #98 on: July 12, 2013, 11:39:07 AM »
Where can we watch it at ?  I'm following it in the paper but they don't give a lot of info.

In response to your prior post KK:

I agree, we need to hear the whole story. +1

It'll be interesting to hear what law Elderts was breaking that required LEO intervention.  Other than being a dick. He was sitting at a table when approached.
Often times just being a dick will illicit LEO intervention
From the video looks like his being a dick had subsided. Even hipster jeans guy said he didn't feel threatened and didn't need help.

It's posible it was self-defense on the part of Elderts after Deedy fired shots that missed and Elderts charged him. He didn't hit him until the third shot by all accounts.
I'm calling B.S. on this one. Nobody runs back at someone after they've been shot at, it's not human nature.
Shots from 2 feet You don't have to run back at anyone, just reach out to get the muzzle away from you. ( not that it's that easy)
Looks like Elderts reached for Deedy's hand when pulled his pistol. Maybe that's why he missed high twice.
And Deedy had already allegedly told Elderts he would shoot him.  It's possible Elderts actually thought he would once he pulled his gun.

What would the members here do if shots were fired at them from close range ?  LEO or not. ?
Take cover or get the hell out. Certainly not run unarmed back at the guy firing at me.
Not much cover or places to run at 2 feet away. Can't out run a bullet. Serpentine. Serpentine.

Did Deedy Identify himself as LEO ? Big question. Hope we find out.
Did he call for back up from local PD after he was cracked. Sure hope so, but no indication of such. Things may have happened too fast. 

Is he being railroaded. Of course he is, it's only the prosecution's case up to this point.
Let's see what the defense has to say.

And hope Deedy gets a fair trial.

P.S.
Ku, love that Matrix vid. That's what I would do.  8)
Logged

HUCKLEBUCK

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #99 on: July 12, 2013, 11:46:52 AM »

Quote from: Kingkeoni on July 12, 2013, 11:24:33 AM
I don't know if any of you are watching the trial but so far it looks like they're railroading Deedy.
Yep.....and what's breathtaking is how the prosecution uses the race card AGAINST DEEDY!  The mental gymnastics is breathtaking:   saying 'f'ing haole' does not make ELDERTS racist, but deedy being legitimately advised of such racism, makes HIM racist! 
Logged
Print
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 33
« previous next »