Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 06:03:02 PM
For those unfamiliar with Who I am, My Name is Andre Namiki Roberts, I am a permanent resident of the Untied states having moved here from the untied kingdom in 2006. In 2015 i Applied for a firearms permit and was denied based on a HPD policy that would require me to travel back to the untited kingdom to get a background check done on myself and provided it to them at my own expense (somewhere around $4000) This policy was made with the intention of denying non citizens there 2nd amendment rights. I recognized the implication of what they were doing and confronted them, Over a peiod of 3 days i explained them them what they were doing was wrong. they would not budge, So i contacted a lawyer here in Hawaii who handles civil rights cases and we got working on a lawsuit. After approximately 3 months of work and a lawsuit in federal court, HPD settled with me (whilst admitting no wrong doing) and as well as stooping the unconstitutional/illegal policy they also had to cover my legal expenses.
If you would like to read about this lawsuit you can do so here, http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights) or see the actual lawsuit here http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf)
Now why is this information important ?
I want you to know who i am, That im a real person who is willing to step up when needed to defend my rights (and those of others) I want you to see that im not going to hide behind an online Alias and that i am going to be upfront with thing. Why ? Because im going to ask for help. I have spoke to both Rick and Alan, the lawyers who helped me with my previous lawsuit and they are willing to again work with me to stop rap back. But to do so its going to cost money. The minimum amount given to me was $15k, Why so much ? This is going to be a long fight and lawyers have bills to pay. A lawsuit like this can drag on for months into years and although there is a very good chance we can stop rapback it may take some time.
Ways you can help
The biggest way you can help is with cold hard cash. I personally have put $500 in the kitty and so far have had another $300 pledged to help but we need more. You can donate direct to me
via paypal : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk OR info@stoprapback.com
or
via mail you can make a check or money order payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts and mail it to Andrew Namiki Roberts, P.O. BOX 283182, Honolulu, HI 96828
or
In person, I am going to be making more effort to visit the range on weekends (usualy i go weekdays when its quite so no one laughs at me missing)
I am in the process of setting up a gofund me account But was given this notfication :
"The content of your campaign has led us to believe that you may be trying to raise money for a legal matter. You may view our terms and conditions here."
So i am waiting/looking into what caused this.
[Edit] Added GoFundMe Link from this thread https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25630.msg226820#msg226820
https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii
Post by: suka on December 04, 2016, 06:17:58 PM
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 06:37:07 PM
Will the $15K be refunded to you after the Lawsuit? Hence, after the lawyers recover their legal fees from the City and State?
As long as we are successful in the suit and the full legal costs can be recovered YES. This money will then be used to fight the next fight.
Post by: suka on December 04, 2016, 06:41:12 PM
Come on people donate!!!
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Heres $40 your way , the HPD will not collect from me!
Come on people donate!!!
If 1/2 the forum members donated $10 (the cost of a box of 9mm) we would have the money instantly.
is 1% of gun owners in Hawaii donated $1 we would be good for anyfight.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 04, 2016, 07:32:11 PM
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: punaperson on December 04, 2016, 07:45:59 PM
If 1/2 the forum members donated $10 (the cost of a box of 9mm) we would have the money instantly.Excellent points.
is 1% of gun owners in Hawaii donated $1 we would be good for anyfight.
Okay, I gotta go feed my unicorn.
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 08:37:16 PM
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 08:41:43 PM
Post by: Heavies on December 04, 2016, 08:44:34 PM
Thank you for stepping up!
Post by: mako511 on December 04, 2016, 08:46:05 PM
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 09:03:16 PM
I have a friend making some Stop RapBack stickers as well. These will be available sooooooon (i hope)
Post by: suka on December 04, 2016, 09:05:43 PM
and
To have all past registration purged from the records.
Post by: 808S10 on December 04, 2016, 09:09:02 PM
Thank you for your efforts.
Post by: London808 on December 04, 2016, 09:14:53 PM
Would the Lawsuit also try to eliminate the whole Hawaii Firearm Registration System?
and
To have all past registration purged from the records.
Registration of firearms is not going to go away, This is not a firearms registration law tho, This is an attempt to register owners. One of the big differences is previously they have registered a gun to an owner. Now they are registering practitioners of a constitutionally protected act. Would be kind of like registering church goers or registering book writers or news presenters Some might even go as far it would be the same as registering black people so they can practice not being slaves.
as for previously colelcted data before a lawsuit goes in. It should be expunged.
Post by: JHanawahine on December 04, 2016, 09:29:51 PM
Post by: Heavies on December 04, 2016, 09:53:01 PM
Registration of firearms is not going to go away, This is not a firearms registration law tho, This is an attempt to register owners. One of the big differences is previously they have registered a gun to an owner. Now they are registering practitioners of a constitutionally protected act. Would be kind of like registering church goers or registering book writers or news presenters Some might even go as far it would be the same as registering black people so they can practice not being slaves.A little off topic, but the atf form 4473 does specifically ask if you are latino... What's up with that? ???
as for previously colelcted data before a lawsuit goes in. It should be expunged.
Post by: Jl808 on December 05, 2016, 09:56:10 AM
We can do a lot if we all pitch in. Here is a video of 10,000 people signing Beethoven's Ode to Joy.
https://youtu.be/xBlQZyTF_LY
Post by: whynow? on December 05, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Post by: 2aHawaii on December 05, 2016, 10:33:23 AM
Post by: oldfart on December 05, 2016, 11:14:37 AM
Threw a few bucks in the pot.
Post by: kkt on December 05, 2016, 11:57:03 AM
Thanks for fighting for us all!
Post by: London808 on December 05, 2016, 11:59:00 AM
Me and Zippz went visit HPD, The AG and the City corporate counsel.
Needeless to say it went as predicted,
Major Robinson appeared in the Lobby whilst i was waiting. When asked what i was there for i explained about the Rap back fee for reapplication being in violation of the law, Was told if i dident pay it i would not get my permit.
Told him i was still going to apply and they can do what they got to do, Got to the counter and caused confusion when i said i wasent paying, Filled out the forms, Got the New rapback forms (see below) I asked if they were approved/provided by the AG's office and was told no they were provided by the FBI, I informed them that i could not sign them. Handed everything in ad we will see in 2 weeks if i get a permit or not (most likley not).
Left HPD went to the AG to enquirer about the legality of the Fee's and the Forms ACTUALLY GOT TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE!!!!!!!. Was told we cant help you the law dosent allow it, Was given the phone number of an AG investigator who i will contact this week. Was advised that the City corporate counsel might be able to help. So went over to Honolulu Hale (Christmas decorations are up) Spoke to one of the very nice ladies, Explained the situation with the fees and how i would rather avoid a lawsuit. Was told that they couldn't give me legal advice, Informed them that i dident want any i wanted them to provide HPD with legal advice. A phone call saying dont do that is better then paying $20k in legal fees. They took my name and number, Told me they would give me a call.
Anything i missed Zippz ?
Post by: London808 on December 05, 2016, 12:04:22 PM
J.Hara Store
3221 Waialae Ave, Honolulu, HI 96816
They are located on the lower level to the right of Times supermarket.
(http://vpi.s3.amazonaws.com/25885.jpg)
Post by: suka on December 05, 2016, 12:46:35 PM
28USC 534
Authority
Providing your fingerprints and associated information is voluntary; however, failure to do so may affect completion or approval of your application.
Post by: suka on December 05, 2016, 12:49:07 PM
Post by: stangzilla on December 05, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
thanks for taking this on! :thumbsup:
Post by: London808 on December 05, 2016, 01:02:55 PM
If someone refuses to volunteerly offer their info, how would it affect registering a firearm?
I guess we will find out in 14 days,
I did not deny access to my information to avoid a background check, I did not deny my payment of the fee to avoid a background check, I denied payment because its not required by law, I denied consent to enroll me in Rap back.
There is nothing in my history that would prohibit me from owning firearms. This is not a Background check it is an illegal continuous search without warrant or cause. It would be like placing a tarcking device on cars and sending them a ticket automatically, Because you can go fast it means you will.
Post by: stangzilla on December 05, 2016, 01:30:54 PM
Post by: Heavies on December 05, 2016, 01:33:25 PM
315 more people, donate your $42, give to this fight, not to the state tyrants.
Post by: dv808 on December 05, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
Post by: z06psi on December 05, 2016, 04:48:58 PM
Post by: GlockNewb on December 05, 2016, 07:07:46 PM
Post by: punaperson on December 05, 2016, 07:10:32 PM
A couple of comments in the thread:
Well, I'll let the wife know that we will not be going to Hawaii any more...
Had been going there every 2 years...spending 6-8k each time, no more. Instead we will dump that money into more AZ property.
While we didn't spend anywhere near what your tab was,we will join you in staying away from hawaii!.
It rained too much and traffic was horribile, not to mention every street had a similar name!
Scottsdale,Tucson,even Yuma will be better vacation choices. Besides I like to legally carry a firearm!
Post by: oldfart on December 05, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
We are so screwed. :(
Post by: ibuytoys on December 05, 2016, 11:10:34 PM
Post by: GlockNewb on December 05, 2016, 11:26:50 PM
Ladies and Gents,
I would like to make a point about this situation that perhaps no one has brought up yet.
Basically we are in a lose-lose situation.
If you go ahead and make your purchase today then you just bent over and took one in the butt...they win.
If you stopped or delayed a purchase because of this law, then the antigun libs have won a huge victory by stopping a legitimate transaction.
They win again.
We are so screwed. :(
2a rights, from the limited time I've been attentive, have always been an uphill battle in Hawaii. But who says the only way is up the hill...why not around? I totally agree this is not a game that can be won with the rules as they stand, so the next step would be to change the rules.
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 07:15:10 AM
2a rights, from the limited time I've been attentive, have always been an uphill battle in Hawaii. But who says the only way is up the hill...why not around? I totally agree this is not a game that can be won with the rules as they stand, so the next step would be to change the rules....
That's a nice thought. Hard to do.
....
Btw, was that Aiea78 on gofundme?
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 07:51:26 AM
...
That's a nice thought. Hard to do.
....
Btw, was that Aiea78 on gofundme?
Im not sure whos who, Some donations are from here, some are from FB people.
Post by: stangzilla on December 06, 2016, 08:02:59 AM
just for your personal info. just as long as rapback loses, its worth it.
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 08:27:18 AM
i attached a note on paypal payment, my screen name here on 2ahawaii....
just for your personal info. just as long as rapback loses, its worth it.
We really should go nationwide with this gundraiser.
If we lose here, is there any doubt that the antis will spread it like pies in a cow pasture?
That is why I can't understand why the NRA is so quiet.
Post by: stangzilla on December 06, 2016, 08:36:29 AM
I started a thread on rugerforum.net
with links, gofundme link, youtube, and general info on rapback
maybe can get some help there
if others are on different national firearms forums, they can start something there too. reach out nationwide
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
http://rugerforum.net/tavern/213082-rapback-help-needed.html#post2589434===========
I started a thread on rugerforum.net
with links, gofundme link, youtube, and general info on rapback
maybe can get some help there
if others are on different national firearms forums, they can start something there too. reach out nationwide
outstanding
I don't belong to any other forums but I know many of you belong to other forums.
I suggest spreading the word there since it will likely spread like cancer if it goes unchecked here.
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 11:01:31 AM
Major Robinson of the HPD ignoring state law and charging a fee to firearms applicants that are not required to pay said fee
HRS 134-2 (i) reads :
No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.
Key words : FIRST PERMIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDzyXKSQVjM
Post by: punaperson on December 06, 2016, 12:37:50 PM
Not surprised to hear "I'm going to do what I've been told to do, no matter what the law actually says".
The only thing they understand is being on the losing end of a lawsuit, when the court spells it out for them (I'd say "in plain English", but it's already in plain English).
Now you have "standing" for the lawsuit.
Post by: z06psi on December 06, 2016, 12:48:56 PM
Step one go after the low hanging fruit. The illgeal charging of $42 for people reapplying for permits.
Major Robinson of the HPD ignoring state law and charging a fee to firearms applicants that are not required to pay said fee
HRS 134-2 (i) reads :
No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.
Key words : FIRST PERMIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDzyXKSQVjM
This guys is an arrogant POS. He refused to answer any of my emails as well when he was referred by Will Espero.
He works for the people and his kind needs to be sent into retirement.
Post by: z06psi on December 06, 2016, 12:54:09 PM
Thank you for recording that and posting it.
Not surprised to hear "I'm going to do what I've been told to do, no matter what the law actually says".
The only thing they understand is being on the losing end of a lawsuit, when the court spells it out for them (I'd say "in plain English", but it's already in plain English).
Now you have "standing" for the lawsuit.
And he is dead wrong. He sponsored the bill and he believes in this. I have his email calling a particular person on this board a "Fanatic". So he thinks people who defend their Constitutional rights as fanatics.
What is worse is that no one in this state will ever be checked by this behavior. The Police Commission, the legislature, the mayor, and the governor will sit idly by as someone like this uses Gestapo techniques to get their way.
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 12:57:45 PM
Thank you for recording that and posting it.
Not surprised to hear "I'm going to do what I've been told to do, no matter what the law actually says".
The only thing they understand is being on the losing end of a lawsuit, when the court spells it out for them (I'd say "in plain English", but it's already in plain English).
Now you have "standing" for the lawsuit.
This alone is not lawsuit worthy, we file, pay $500 and then they say OK and change the policy to not charge the $42 any more,
I have a complaint written that i will be filling tomorrow with, HPD, The police commission and the city and county. Hopefully this alone will force them to stop.
Then we move onto the actual rapback part of it (i have to wait 14-20 days to get denyed my permit anyway)
Post by: z06psi on December 06, 2016, 01:03:30 PM
This alone is not lawsuit worthy, we file, pay $500 and then they say OK and change the policy to not charge the $42 any more,
I have a complaint written that i will be filling tomorrow with, HPD, The police commission and the city and county. Hopefully this alone will force them to stop.
Then we move onto the actual rapback part of it (i have to wait 14-20 days to get denyed my permit anyway)
Now that I know you are Mr. Roberts. He was specifically referring to you about being a "fanatic".
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 01:12:40 PM
Now that I know you are Mr. Roberts. He was specifically referring to you about being a "fanatic".
Would you have that e-mail for me, and when was this ?
Post by: punaperson on December 06, 2016, 01:33:36 PM
And he is dead wrong. He sponsored the bill and he believes in this. I have his email calling a particular person on this board a "Fanatic". So he thinks people who defend their Constitutional rights as fanatics.Yeah. That makes about as much sense as criminals calling cops "fanatics" about observing and enforcing laws. Okay, so more accurately: "about selectively observing and enforcing the laws they approve of".
Post by: Heavies on December 06, 2016, 02:01:32 PM
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 02:12:49 PM
fa·nat·ic
fəˈnadik/
noun
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
synonyms: zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent;
well............ im not sure if i should be offended or not, I am really interested in how i came up and how it was used in contact tho.
Im sure its just becasue hes butt hurt i beat them in that last lawsuit and unlike most i understand the law and am willing to fight for my rights. I wonder how many Non-Citzens rights they violated before that last lawsuit.
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 02:15:59 PM
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 02:37:58 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15356566_10157856410650634_1903363421100123382_n.jpg?oh=b513521c01ce00c9a2df705baef93676&oe=58B22ABB)...
:worship:
Post by: Aloha808 on December 06, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 04:04:59 PM
Major Robinson is a hypocrite. He advocates not using a firearm for self defense, but instead to get a "big dog" instead. Yet he goes to the HPD range to qualify with his new Glock 43 for off duty concealed carry.....
I believe hpd is required to qualify with whatever gun they carry.
Post by: Heavies on December 06, 2016, 04:08:39 PM
FANATIC:thumbsup:
fa·nat·ic
fəˈnadik/
noun
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
synonyms: zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent;
well............ im not sure if i should be offended or not, I am really interested in how i came up and how it was used in contact tho.
Im sure its just becasue hes butt hurt i beat them in that last lawsuit and unlike most i understand the law and am willing to fight for my rights. I wonder how many Non-Citzens rights they violated before that last lawsuit.
Thank you FANATIC, sincerely The Deplorables.
Post by: Aloha808 on December 06, 2016, 04:22:20 PM
....
I believe hpd is required to qualify with whatever gun they carry.
You missed the point.
My point is that he's advocating the public to get a dog, yet he gets to carry a firearm off duty for protection. If he didn't have to, would he.
Post by: punaperson on December 06, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
You missed the point.For him to be logically consistent, he would only use the firearm off duty in his role as a sworn public servant intervening in a crime taking place in his presence. If he personally became a victim of a crime while off duty, he would not use the firearm, but rely on the canine, which he always has with him (right?).
My point is that he's advocating the public to get a dog, yet he gets to carry a firearm off duty for protection. If he didn't have to, would he.
Post by: oldfart on December 06, 2016, 05:05:36 PM
You missed the point....
My point is that he's advocating the public to get a dog, yet he gets to carry a firearm off duty for protection. If he didn't have to, would he.
IWB dog...not a good idea.
Note....the weight of even a compact size dog tends to pull down pants.
Post by: macsak on December 06, 2016, 05:28:27 PM
...
IWB dog...not a good idea.
Note....the weight of even a compact size dog tends to pull down pants.
good color choice on the toenails, OF
Post by: rpoL98 on December 06, 2016, 07:01:09 PM
Post by: z06psi on December 06, 2016, 10:01:02 PM
Would you have that e-mail for me, and when was this ?
PM me your email address. I tried to recontact Mr. Espero today with no reply.
I am sure they are watching this thread(s).
Post by: z06psi on December 06, 2016, 10:04:21 PM
....
I believe hpd is required to qualify with whatever gun they carry.
I doubt he is carrying a 43 in uniform. And the main point is that the SOB gets to conceal carry while spewing his hate for the common citizen to defend themselves.
I would put money on the fact I have more training than he does but he is excluded from the laws which is complete horseshit.
Post by: London808 on December 06, 2016, 11:13:56 PM
PM me your email address. I tried to recontact Mr. Espero today with no reply.
I am sure they are watching this thread(s).
Oh im sure they are, It wouldn't surprise me if HPD has a special task force with 24 coverage.
This is the main reason im keeping quite on the various illegal and unconstitutional parts of this law.
Post by: Aloha808 on December 06, 2016, 11:33:30 PM
I doubt he is carrying a 43 in uniform. And the main point is that the SOB gets to conceal carry while spewing his hate for the common citizen to defend themselves.
I would put money on the fact I have more training than he does but he is excluded from the laws which is complete horseshit.
43 for off duty concealed carry. He works behind a desk. And yes the point exactly.
Post by: z06psi on December 07, 2016, 06:48:56 AM
Post by: London808 on December 07, 2016, 09:32:38 AM
Emails sent.
Thanks :shaka:, he did in fact referee to me as being a Fanatic. I did note that he dident use his official HPD e-mail address.
Post by: z06psi on December 07, 2016, 12:17:44 PM
Post by: z06psi on December 07, 2016, 12:18:20 PM
Post by: London808 on December 07, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmy7X8zq-hQ
I love how he ends it with "Take it Easy Man" Like im going to do anything else.
Post by: London808 on December 07, 2016, 08:49:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu2FCgYVlw
Post by: z06psi on December 08, 2016, 08:05:32 AM
Another segment of the Audio recorded on Monday, This time with regards to me recording whilst inside the police station, He kind of caught me of guard with this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmy7X8zq-hQ
I love how he ends it with "Take it Easy Man" Like im going to do anything else.
Firearm information is not all that important to them. They share it with the Feds and the hospitals. Guys was full of it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 08, 2016, 09:19:16 AM
But for courtesy of privacy for others in line, I wouldn't film their faces. Kind of like when at KHSC, if you take pics of yourself shooting, try not to get others in the background. Not illegal, just a courtesy. Some of us don't post pics of our firearms on IG or FB for a reason.
Good audio recording London. I also called them to see if a CCW is denied, do we get a refund? Denied as in because Chief don't sign off, not denied due to failed background check. They said no refund, but I can call 808-587-3279 because the $42 fee goes to them. Called them and they said no refund because the criminal background process has been started. They told me to talk to HPD since Chief never sign off. So the run around.
Post by: London808 on December 08, 2016, 09:30:50 AM
Most of the "private info" is on their side of the window. The only thing that may be private is when you sign the pad to verify the info typed. But a camera most likely won't capture those text. So he's full of it.
But for courtesy of privacy for others in line, I wouldn't film their faces. Kind of like when at KHSC, if you take pics of yourself shooting, try not to get others in the background. Not illegal, just a courtesy. Some of us don't post pics of our firearms on IG or FB for a reason.
Good audio recording London. I also called them to see if a CCW is denied, do we get a refund? Denied as in because Chief don't sign off, not denied due to failed background check. They said no refund, but I can call 808-587-3279 because the $42 fee goes to them. Called them and they said no refund because the criminal background process has been started. They told me to talk to HPD since Chief never sign off. So the run around.
There is no requirement for rapback for CCW, CCW's are only issued to those in Hawaii with a firearm already registered. The fee for a CCW is $10 and is only payable on issuance.
Post by: punaperson on December 08, 2016, 09:40:44 AM
https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/727/2016/12/sort/time_rev/page/1/entry/1:5/20161207183740:2283BA1A-BCD6-11E6-86BC-B4064C191CE8/
Victory: Virginia Court rules against extra requirements for CHP applicants!
This new ruling will be used by VCDL to stop various abuses by Circuit Court Clerks and judges who, contrary to Virginia law, make up their own requirements for CHP applicants. CHP holders have enough hoops to jump through, as is, without each Clerk or judge dreaming up more.
Let me be clear, what Ken Richards did to help put an end to such government abuses was extremely selfless.
Rather than just caving in, as most people would have, Ken refused on principle to provide a copy of his drivers license with his CHP application. since there is no such requirement in the law.
When the Norfolk Circuit Court stood their ground and refused to issue Ken's CHP, Ken stood HIS ground, paid for a lawyer, and sued.
KEN WON. And that win in the Virginia Court of Appeals will benefit thousands of gun owners. The ruling applies to any requirements not spelled out in the law, not just drivers license copies. Proof of residency is one example of an extra-legal requirement by some courts.
Some who heard about this win, pooh-poohed it saying that Ken should have just supplied his photo ID as requested. To them I say that if you and I have to follow the law, so must the government. PERIOD.
Hats off to Ken Richards!
(NOTE: If you show up in person and ask the Circuit Court Clerk to notarize your CHP application, then they can, and should, require a photo iD.)
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 08, 2016, 10:25:29 AM
There is no requirement for rapback for CCW, CCW's are only issued to those in Hawaii with a firearm already registered. The fee for a CCW is $10 and is only payable on issuance.
Called 2x and spoke to 2 different people (male and female) and both said if I apply for CCW, I have to pay $42 for rap back. HPD website says that CCW is an "application". Rapback applies for permits. So I called just to confirm. HPD needs understand the process. I do understand that with any new change, there is a learning curve so no biggie.
Post by: London808 on December 08, 2016, 11:06:30 AM
Called 2x and spoke to 2 different people (male and female) and both said if I apply for CCW, I have to pay $42 for rap back. HPD website says that CCW is an "application". Rapback applies for permits. So I called just to confirm. HPD needs understand the process. I do understand that with any new change, there is a learning curve so no biggie.
134-2 (permit) is separate from 134-9 (CCW licencing)
HRS 134-9 reads : The chief of police of the appropriate county, or the chief's designated representative, shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, to include a check of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases where the applicant is not a citizen of the United States,
no check with the HCJDC, So no HCJDC free.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 08, 2016, 01:13:46 PM
Post by: z06psi on December 08, 2016, 09:16:38 PM
Post by: Rocky on December 09, 2016, 09:44:16 AM
I see your names on the YouTube post which has been picked up by LIFE (Lessons in Firearms Facebook page.
I don't have a YouTube "account" but maybe one of you guys can post the donation info on the You tube page.
I'll try to get it on the LIFE Facebook page.
:wave: :thumbsup:
Post by: London808 on December 12, 2016, 08:59:19 AM
Post by: Heavies on December 12, 2016, 01:33:18 PM
Noy much to update right now, Just waiting for Monday the 19th to find out if HPD is going to deny my permit and seize my guns (again)How are you doing on the fund raising
Post by: London808 on December 12, 2016, 01:40:53 PM
How are you doing on the fund raising
Kind of flatlining we're at $3727 right now (before fees) or at about 20% of what we need. If HPD Denys my permit on the 19th I think we can get another big push and I will try to go national with the story. I going to ask a friend I end to try and write a press release for me. (Or if one of you is good at formal writing let me know) one of my biggest problems is I know what's what but have difficulty putting it into words/writing without coming across as militant/ a price.
I spoke to maybe a dozen people at the range on Saturday and most of them dident know and dident care, I'm not going To commit a crime so why should it effect me attitude or that's not right but oh well what can you do.
Post by: Heavies on December 12, 2016, 01:44:30 PM
Kind of flatlining, I spoke to maybe a dozen people at the range on Saturday and most of them dident know and dident care, I'm not going To vomit a crime so why should it effect me attitude or that's not right but oh wel what can you do.Yep. That's why our gun rights in Hawaii are going down hill so very quickly, ainokea.. sad.
Still having brisk likes on FB but people tend to like and share, however action is something else altogether.
Post by: London808 on December 12, 2016, 01:50:03 PM
Yep. That's why our gun rights in Hawaii are going down hill so very quickly, ainokea.. sad.
Still having brisk likes on FB but people tend to like and share, however action is something else altogether.
Edited my post above, I'm working on some other stuff to help find this. I'm starting another company 12over6.com that I will use to sell some tactical products, clothing and branded merchandise. 100% of the profits will go to protecting tHe 2A in Hawaii.
A lot of people I think will be willing to contribute in return for something. Be it stickers, hats, shirts, gear etc...
Post by: London808 on December 12, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Post by: punaperson on December 12, 2016, 02:46:50 PM
Yep. That's why our gun rights in Hawaii are going down hill so very quickly, ainokea.. sad.One estimate (likely very low as many people are likely very reticent to tell a stranger that they have guns in their home) is that 6.7% of the Hawaii population own guns. According the the 2016 estimate Hawaii's population is 1.441,000. That means AT LEAST 96,547 people own guns in this state. If only 1 out of every ten (9,965) were willing to donate to the fund to fight RapBack, they'd need to donate $1.51 each to cover the entire $15,000 goal of the fund. I'm poor, and an extremely "thrifty" cheapskate and even I gave way more than that. To be stuck at $3,800 is a sign of just how ainokea things are for firearm civil rights here in Hawaii. It's sickening.
Still having brisk likes on FB but people tend to like and share, however action is something else altogether.
Imagine the response if the legislature got emails/phone calls/testimony from 10% (9,655) of those owners about bills favoring our rights! Imagine if they got calls/testimony from even one percent (1% = 965). That one percent would increase by 1,000% the most testimony received on any bill regarding firearm civil rights in the past several years! Only one out of a hundred... and the best we've ever gotten is one out of a thousand! Now THAT'S friggin' sad! The anti-gun rights legislators must look at Hawaii's gun-owning citizens and laugh. I'm more inclined to cry... and be totally disgusted.
Post by: London808 on December 14, 2016, 10:42:08 AM
Post by: oldfart on December 14, 2016, 11:02:25 AM
Come on you lurkers...get in the fight. Throw some cash in for the legal battle.
Freedom isn't free.
Post by: ren on December 14, 2016, 12:32:49 PM
Forget about buying that fancy Tavor or SCAR. Won't matter if the City makes more stupid and failed policies like this. Give up that ONE Starbucks drink for this cause. One Panda plate.
So we have the govt. tracking law abiding citizens like us but who is monitoring the non law abiding ones? That's where they should be penalizing. The ones who break the law. Not us. We have done nothing wrong but WE keep taking the stereotype that since we have guns we are criminals. :grrr:
Post by: suka on December 14, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15541256_10157913182620634_8522654300528678649_n.jpg?oh=37f3326c798692735bb3c835040e2d43&oe=58ECFB70)
Doesn't the wording "database" conflict directly with the federal FOPA law?
Post by: London808 on December 14, 2016, 01:15:40 PM
Post by: PalisadesKid on December 14, 2016, 09:07:00 PM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15541256_10157913182620634_8522654300528678649_n.jpg?oh=37f3326c798692735bb3c835040e2d43&oe=58ECFB70)
No word of them demanding you to surrender your other firearms and ammo?
Perhaps since it was due to a procedural denial (for a lack of a better term) as opposed to something related to criminal or mental health history "triggering" a confiscation?
Post by: Heavies on December 14, 2016, 09:13:56 PM
No word of them demanding you to surrender your other firearms and ammo?http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0007.htm
Perhaps since it was due to a procedural denial (for a lack of a better term) as opposed to something related to criminal or mental health history "triggering" a confiscation?
Post by: MauiLeatherwork on December 14, 2016, 10:30:26 PM
Post by: zippz on December 15, 2016, 12:52:09 AM
Post by: Heavies on December 15, 2016, 12:57:43 AM
I put ads out in the accessories and other classified forums. Proceeds from the sale will be given to london808 for the rapback suit.Awesome zippz!
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2016, 06:43:20 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15541256_10157913182620634_8522654300528678649_n.jpg?oh=37f3326c798692735bb3c835040e2d43&oe=58ECFB70)==================
Seriously? This guy wants to track us?
Post by: punaperson on December 15, 2016, 07:03:27 AM
==================Come on oldfart, you know those people are "special"/elites and the rules that apply to you and I don't apply to them... (see: Clinton, Holder, BATFE, Obama...). Now, bend over, the state has a surprise for you.
Seriously? This guy wants to track us?
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2016, 08:43:44 AM
Come on oldfart, you know those people are "special"/elites and the rules that apply to you and I don't apply to them... (see: Clinton, Holder, BATFE, Obama...). Now, bend over, the state has a surprise for you.....
Of course I know that.
It's just the irony of it all.
Shouldn't all LEO be in rapback? Since they are all in positions of public trust.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 15, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
Thanks London for all your efforts.
Post by: ren on December 15, 2016, 09:05:21 AM
==================
Seriously? This guy wants to track us?
Did he ever find his mailbox?
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 15, 2016, 10:04:31 AM
Did he ever find his mailbox?
It's next to the approved stack of CCW permit paperwork.
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2016, 10:13:28 AM
It's next to the approved stack of CCW permit paperwork.....
:rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:
Post by: doc 0ct on December 15, 2016, 04:02:02 PM
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2016, 06:23:56 PM
A lot of people don't realize that in 7 days from Now I could once again lose my 2A rights fighting for all of ours.....
Scorpio and myself are contributing more. I used gofundme earlier, but is PayPal better??
Post by: macsak on December 15, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
....
Scorpio and myself are contributing more. I used gofundme earlier, but is PayPal better??
paypal gift has no fees
Post by: Sodie on December 15, 2016, 07:15:29 PM
Doesn't the wording "database" conflict directly with the federal FOPA law?
I don't believe FOPA applies here. It only restricts the AG of the United States from making rules requiring putting gun owners in a federal database... it doesn't restrict state governments.
Post by: Sodie on December 15, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Post by: whynow? on December 15, 2016, 08:49:35 PM
Post by: suka on December 15, 2016, 09:44:47 PM
I don't believe FOPA applies here. It only restricts the AG of the United States from making rules requiring putting gun owners in a federal database... it doesn't restrict state governments.
18 USC 926
be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
Post by: m10blloqu on December 15, 2016, 09:45:03 PM
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2016, 11:10:00 PM
Just joined and donated.....
Welcome to the forum. Thank you for stepping up to the plate. :thumbsup:
Post by: oldfart on December 16, 2016, 05:38:50 AM
paypal gift has no fees...
Investigated the gofundme service.
The fees total about 8%
Post by: z06psi on December 16, 2016, 07:21:34 AM
I discussed this with a shop owner on an outer island. I suggested that I believed rap back was slowing December purchases. Store owner agreed. I wonder how long I can be content with what I own while we wait for litigation. I wish to contribute what I can soon. Mahalo to London 808 and others active in this forum.
This was one of my earlier points. The gun shop owners have to get involved at some point and start returning some of their capital towards this effort. This will hurt the bottom line for them.
Post by: punaperson on December 16, 2016, 08:11:47 PM
Post by: Sodie on December 16, 2016, 10:29:12 PM
18 USC 926
be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
You've got to read the whole thing.
Quote from: 18 USC § 926
(a) The Attorney General may prescribe only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter, including—Emphasis added.
...
(3) regulations providing for effective receipt and secure storage of firearms relinquished by or seized from persons described in subsection (d)(8 ) or (g)(8 ) of section 922.
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.
In the definitions section of this chapter, it defines the Attorney General.
Quote from: 18 USC § 921
(18) The term “Attorney General” means the Attorney General of the United StatesEmphasis added.
So... The Attorney General of the United States may make no rule or regulation that requires records to be maintained under that chapter to be recorded at or transferred to, etc.
Hawaii's Rapback requirement is neither a rule nor a regulation (it's a statute), and was not made by the Attorney General of the United States (passed by the legislature of the State of Hawaii and signed into law by the Governor), so unless there's some other provision of federal law that specifically restricts state governments, FOPA doesn't apply.
Post by: London808 on December 16, 2016, 10:42:54 PM
You've got to read the whole thing.
Emphasis added.
In the definitions section of this chapter, it defines the Attorney General.
Emphasis added.
So... The Attorney General of the United States may make no rule or regulation that requires records to be maintained under that chapter to be recorded at or transferred to, etc.
Hawaii's Rapback requirement is neither a rule nor a regulation (it's a statute), and was not made by the Attorney General of the United States (passed by the legislature of the State of Hawaii and signed into law by the Governor), so unless there's some other provision of federal law that specifically restricts state governments, FOPA doesn't apply.
If i didnt think there was a way to win i wouldent be collecting money for the fight.
Post by: Sodie on December 16, 2016, 10:44:54 PM
If i didnt think there was a way to win i wouldent be collecting money for the fight.
And if I didn't think there was a way to win, I wouldn't have donated.
Just looks to me like FOPA isn't that way, and we shouldn't hang our hopes on it.
:shaka:
Post by: London808 on December 16, 2016, 11:16:03 PM
And if I didn't think there was a way to win, I wouldn't have donated.
Just looks to me like FOPA isn't that way, and we shouldn't hang our hopes on it.
:shaka:
There is a couple of ways FOPA can work, you just have to know where to look,
Post by: Sodie on December 17, 2016, 11:20:28 AM
There is a couple of ways FOPA can work, you just have to know where to look,
I hope so, I just haven't seen the language yet that restricts states from legislating mandatory participation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: oldfart on December 17, 2016, 11:27:38 AM
Post by: dustoff003 on December 17, 2016, 10:28:30 PM
Just mailed out more money from scorpio and me. Saved plenty money on fees.PayPal friends and family is free.
Post by: dustoff003 on December 17, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
Post by: London808 on December 18, 2016, 09:00:29 AM
Current total for Rapback funds is........
$4077
(after fees)
$4077
(after fees)
Post by: whynow? on December 18, 2016, 11:00:42 PM
If all the LGS could kokua to the effort we might be twice that amount.Current total for Rapback funds is........
$4077
(after fees)
Post by: nathanm14fan on December 19, 2016, 10:46:33 AM
If all the LGS could kokua to the effort we might be twice that amount.
Sadly, I don't think that will come to fruition. Short term focus on immediate sales sadly trumps long term loss of sales.
Post by: Barrett808 on December 20, 2016, 12:53:25 AM
Aloha!
:shaka:
Post by: rklapp on December 20, 2016, 08:40:57 AM
Post by: punaperson on December 20, 2016, 10:18:12 AM
Hawaii's reply to FOPA will be that they are Hawaii and don't have to do what the federal government tells them to do. I've had similar dealings with HIOSH."State's rights. If you think the Fourteenth Amendment applies to Hawaii in this case come up with a couple hundred grand and take us [taxpayer-funded Hawaii Attorney General] though the court system. See ya in six or eight years."
Post by: London808 on December 20, 2016, 09:22:57 PM
Post by: whynow? on December 20, 2016, 09:27:26 PM
Heading to HPD tomorrow to try and pick up my long gun permit. (Yes im aware i have a denial letter) I have some new information that IF and ONLY if the major listens to it (he actually provided the information) should allow me to get my permit.Good luck tomorrow.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 20, 2016, 09:31:04 PM
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: London808 on December 20, 2016, 09:34:15 PM
Major wont care if u proved 1+1=2. He wont change his mind. To him it still =3.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Yeah but its easier to sue some one when you can prove mater of factually that they violated the law and your rights and that you gave them the opportunity to do the right thing.
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 07:01:50 AM
Yeah but its easier to sue some one when you can prove mater of factually that they violated the law and your rights and that you gave them the opportunity to do the right thing.Video and/or audio please.
Post by: OGC on December 21, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
This is even pushing the limit and is against the recommendation of counsel to just remain silent on the issue.
I am only speaking for OGC, but this may likely reflect the position of other LGS, you would have to ask them.
Please understand that due to the close working relationship that most of the LGS must maintain with the State and Federal government, we simply cannot even be seen to be affiliated with a legal challenge of this nature, however strongly we feel about it personally or how much it would be in our self interest to have rapback eliminated or repealed.
The actions that can be taken against an FFL by the State/Fed Govt are varied and can be executed almost effortlessly and can only be fought with super expensive, likely to fail, legal action.
What you may see as a challenge to your rights, hobby, or access to self defense is also our livelihood and our life's savings tied up in our inventories.
Our support could also HURT any legal action due to the obvious self interest involved should that be part of how the State defends their case, that "gun stores are behind the challenge because they want to sell more guns and don't care about Hawaii or the lives that are lost due to firearms related deaths"
It has to remain a grassroots issue of personal legal rights and whether they are being breached or not, not a campaign of those seeking profit.
We can only hope that the judicial branch will recognize rapback as the breach of rights that many of us believe it to be.
Post by: suka on December 21, 2016, 11:46:23 AM
London808 is not a non profit org and is not required to disclose any supporters.
Most of us gave cash donations without a name attached.
We always try to support the local LGS and buy in Store.
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 11:58:40 AM
Are you claiming that there is no distinction between you as a business entity (LLC or whatever) and you as a private citizen? And that any private actions you take as an individual not associated with the business are subject to retribution by our "public servants"?
I think you, as an individual, have "personal legal rights" regarding the protections of the Second Amendment (and First and Fourth, etc.) and the Constitution as a whole. But it's pretty clear the currently empowered tyrants and traitors can exercise their power in whatever manner they choose without facing any consequences. :(
Post by: OGC on December 21, 2016, 12:17:27 PM
@OGC
Are you claiming that there is no distinction between you as a business entity (LLC or whatever) and you as a private citizen? And that any private actions you take as an individual not associated with the business are subject to retribution by our "public servants"?
I'm reading this as dark humor as unfortunately, the answer is unreservedly yes. Anything I do personally has been treated as inseparable from the shop. Tends to come with the territory as an FFL holder.
Post by: London808 on December 21, 2016, 12:35:30 PM
I have personally reached out to 4-5 stores and will be visiting more to let them know where things stand.
You have to remember that what they do is done under consent and any action they take can be retaliated upon and we all l ow that the current administration loves to do it
So please do me a favor and stop trying to drag them into a fight they can't be part off. ultimately they need to feed and take care of themselves and their family's. I personally am willing to take the bullet for this and wont hold It against them.
In fact I applaud OGC for being willing to post what they have, by far it's more then I would of expected and it shows how much they care for the firearms community and the rights that are involved.
Please support your local gun stores, even if you don't see them in the fight many of them are standing behind it.
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
I see nothing on the HRA website about anything having to do with any the Rapback law since their May 5 appeal to contact Ige re vetoing bills going to him, including Rapback. They just fold up the tent and chalk it up as a total loss after that?
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 01:16:04 PM
I'm reading this as dark humor as unfortunately, the answer is unreservedly yes. Anything I do personally has been treated as inseparable from the shop. Tends to come with the territory as an FFL holder.The following is a rhetorical question and I would not expect (nor want) you answer it in a public forum:
So you're saying that you have good reason to believe that government agencies/agents will take retributive action against you if you exercise your First Amendment (and possibility other) Constitutionally-guaranteed rights, especially in the most important area of protected speech, political speech?
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 21, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
The following is a rhetorical question and I would not expect (nor want) you answer it in a public forum:
So you're saying that you have good reason to believe that government agencies/agents will take retributive action against you if you exercise your First Amendment (and possibility other) Constitutionally-guaranteed rights, especially in the most important area of protected speech, political speech?
The term "they will look for a reason to punish" comes to mind.
Post by: London808 on December 21, 2016, 03:29:22 PM
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx)
Post by: rklapp on December 21, 2016, 03:42:41 PM
As with most litigation, it's always advisable not to discuss ongoing legal action. This screws those of us who want to assist in any way. There's always donations of course.
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 05:26:10 PM
The term "they will look for a reason to punish" comes to mind.I just came across this term right now in reading an article about a guy who shot three SWAT cops who used a flash bang grenade during a no-knock raid on his home (he wasn't the target of the warrant). He was acquitted of all charges. Various government "enforcement" agencies then went to the house and did some bad stuff. The term used: "targeted administrative vengeance".
Post by: punaperson on December 21, 2016, 06:00:08 PM
6 lawyers working on it.....That article and interview took place five and one-half months ago (July 6, 2016). What are those six lawyers doing? Has a lawsuit been filed? If so, why didn't they ask for a temporary injunction given that once people get entered into the system it's unlikely they'll ever be removed? Or is it some kind of clandestine operation so as not to tip the other side to any forthcoming legal strategy? (That would seem unnecessary as subjects of a lawsuit always have plenty of time to prepare their defense. See: Peruta: filed 10/29/2009; seven years and counting...). Or did they just fold up the tent and chalk it up as a total loss?
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx)
Mr. Gerwig in July: "We may see the courts looking at this. We'll see."
I know, I'm really impatient, but... I wanna see.
Post by: z06psi on December 21, 2016, 10:04:58 PM
So we all live in fear of reprisals and what the government will do to us by standing up for our rights? We have lost more than this battle if that is the stance that is taken.
Post by: rklapp on December 21, 2016, 10:48:36 PM
I still think that the argument against the Rapback system is included in the reasons for the 2nd Amendment in preventing a tyrannical government such as the Catholic King James II from disarming the Protestant populace. The argument goes that a tyrannical government has to first create a list of gun owners before they can be taken away. I'm researching it further.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5lKEodoQg
Post by: wolfwood on December 22, 2016, 05:28:05 PM
That article and interview took place five and one-half months ago (July 6, 2016). What are those six lawyers doing? Has a lawsuit been filed? If so, why didn't they ask for a temporary injunction given that once people get entered into the system it's unlikely they'll ever be removed? Or is it some kind of clandestine operation so as not to tip the other side to any forthcoming legal strategy? (That would seem unnecessary as subjects of a lawsuit always have plenty of time to prepare their defense. See: Peruta: filed 10/29/2009; seven years and counting...). Or did they just fold up the tent and chalk it up as a total loss?If anyone knows who those 6 lawyers are I'd love to know.
Mr. Gerwig in July: "We may see the courts looking at this. We'll see."
I know, I'm really impatient, but... I wanna see.
Post by: dustoff003 on December 22, 2016, 06:13:43 PM
If anyone knows who those 6 lawyers are I'd love to know.
I just sent this to the contact us at HRA, we shall see what I get back.
Mr. Gerwig,
I am curious as to the status of HRA's position and current fight if any against the already enacted Rap Back bill? In this July 06, 2016 interview http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx you claim there are "six lawyers working on it right now" what has become of their efforts are they still working on this now? Would you be able to disclose who any of these lawyers are? I ask because a private citizen is trying to self-fund a lawsuit against the Honolulu Police Department maybe his attorneys any the HRA's can join forces. Sir are you and any other HRA board members with the exception of Mr. Richter members on the website www.2ahawaii.com? If not I would recommend that you consider joining there is a lot of worthwhile discussion happening there such as this thread, https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.140 As an HRA member I would like to have the Association have a both a formal and informal presence there.
All the best,
dustoff
Post by: punaperson on December 22, 2016, 10:09:52 PM
If anyone knows who those 6 lawyers are I'd love to know.Does it violate "attorney client privilege" to reveal the attorney(s) in a case? This is some real "hush hush" stuff...
As an aside, "attorney client privilege" is the
Post by: oldfart on December 24, 2016, 07:19:54 AM
So as many of you know I am moving forward with Legal Action against HPD, City and State with regards to Rapback, The implementation of which starts tomorrow December 5th 2016.===============
For those unfamiliar with Who I am, My Name is Andre Namiki Roberts, I am a permanent resident of the Untied states having moved here from the untied kingdom in 2006. In 2015 i Applied for a firearms permit and was denied based on a HPD policy that would require me to travel back to the untited kingdom to get a background check done on myself and provided it to them at my own expense (somewhere around $4000) This policy was made with the intention of denying non citizens there 2nd amendment rights. I recognized the implication of what they were doing and confronted them, Over a peiod of 3 days i explained them them what they were doing was wrong. they would not budge, So i contacted a lawyer here in Hawaii who handles civil rights cases and we got working on a lawsuit. After approximately 3 months of work and a lawsuit in federal court, HPD settled with me (whilst admitting no wrong doing) and as well as stooping the unconstitutional/illegal policy they also had to cover my legal expenses.
If you would like to read about this lawsuit you can do so here, http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights) or see the actual lawsuit here http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf)
Now why is this information important ?
I want you to know who i am, That im a real person who is willing to step up when needed to defend my rights (and those of others) I want you to see that im not going to hide behind an online Alias and that i am going to be upfront with thing. Why ? Because im going to ask for help. I have spoke to both Rick and Alan, the lawyers who helped me with my previous lawsuit and they are willing to again work with me to stop rap back. But to do so its going to cost money. The minimum amount given to me was $15k, Why so much ? This is going to be a long fight and lawyers have bills to pay. A lawsuit like this can drag on for months into years and although there is a very good chance we can stop rapback it may take some time.
Ways you can help
The biggest way you can help is with cold hard cash. I personally have put $500 in the kitty and so far have had another $300 pledged to help but we need more. You can donate direct to me
via paypal : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk OR info@stoprapback.com
or
via mail you can make a check or money order payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts and mail it to Andrew Namiki Roberts, P.O. BOX 283182, Honolulu, HI 96828
or
In person, I am going to be making more effort to visit the range on weekends (usualy i go weekdays when its quite so no one laughs at me missing)
I am in the process of setting up a gofund me account But was given this notfication :
"The content of your campaign has led us to believe that you may be trying to raise money for a legal matter. You may view our terms and conditions here."
So i am waiting/looking into what caused this.
[Edit] Added GoFundMe Link from this thread https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25630.msg226820#msg226820
https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii
BUMPING this today.
Threw in another 20 bucks from RKLAPP via gofundme just now.
Post by: Garuda on December 24, 2016, 07:53:24 AM
It's not just for us, it's for the children too. :rofl:
Post by: zippz on December 29, 2016, 06:28:33 PM
Post by: OldMose on January 01, 2017, 12:31:45 PM
Hope you got some financial support.
Post by: London808 on January 01, 2017, 01:12:47 PM
Thanks for coming out to the HDF open shoot yesterday.
Hope you got some financial support.
Thank you guys for the support, a few people gave something. I came out to shoot but it was nice to be able to talk to people and give people the chance to ask questions.
Post by: suka on January 01, 2017, 07:23:25 PM
The cases involve use of excessive force, endangering others and racist and sexist behavior, among other things.
Thanks to Wolfwood !!! :thumbsup:
Post by: dustoff003 on January 01, 2017, 08:34:28 PM
The city has shelled out millions of dollars in settlements, jury awards and legal fees relating to wrongdoing by Honolulu police officers.
The cases involve use of excessive force, endangering others and racist and sexist behavior, among other things.
Thanks to Wolfwood !!! :thumbsup:
It's our money that they are shelling out.
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Post by: suka on January 01, 2017, 09:00:54 PM
Post by: dustoff003 on January 01, 2017, 09:11:12 PM
better than going to P-card usage .
so true!!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: O3A3man on January 02, 2017, 12:38:54 PM
This is a good cause and fight. Have you approached any and all of the firearms shops and gun clubs to support this yet ? They have the most to loose as this is just another deterrent to a would be new gun purchase. It seems it is just another hoop they want to put law abiding people through because it may be just enough to cause a new gun purchaser to give up.
Post by: punaperson on January 09, 2017, 08:06:11 AM
6 lawyers working on it.....Okay, now another month has passed since HRA's Gerwig gave that interview on July 6, 2016. Could someone please direct me to the HRA legal strategy and actions? Or could someone at least post when the HRA legal action devised by those six attorneys succeeds so I can go renew my long gun permit? Thanks.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17828/Rifle-Association-Six-Lawyers-Working-on-Hawaii-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Lawsuit.aspx)
Post by: dustoff003 on January 09, 2017, 08:09:27 AM
Okay, now another month has passed since HRA's Gerwig gave that interview on July 6, 2016. Could someone please direct me to the HRA legal strategy and actions? Or could someone at least post when the HRA legal action devised by those six attorneys succeeds so I can go renew my long gun permit? Thanks.I have gotten no reply yet to the message I sent to the contact page on the HRA site.
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Post by: punaperson on January 09, 2017, 08:49:22 AM
I have gotten no reply yet to the message I sent to the contact page on the HRA site.Yeah, me either... that's why I was asking for information from someone other that HRA, as they appear to have no interest in responding to public requests for information. Or even acknowledging receipt of a public request for information. I mean, I'm used to having my requests (even formal UIPA requests) ignored by the county police departments, and state and county legislators. I guess I have to add HRA to the "they nokea" list. Actually I'm hoping that by me griping and complaining (without any knowledge of what is actually going on with the six attorneys) about their seeming indifference that I've invoked the "you're an idiot for ignorantly complaining" meme and that shortly the lawsuit will be announced... like maybe at 9 AM today.
Post by: zippz on January 09, 2017, 03:32:18 PM
They probably also have a very limited budget. $20 annual membership fees for I'm guessing maybe 3,000 members doesn't go far for all of the activities they do. I read an article about how the NRA operates. People think they are successful because they have hundreds of millions of dollars for lobbying and legislation. Truth is they don't have the big bank accounts most people think for lobbying and legislation. NRA is very efficient and selective with their money and efforts and good with the media and getting support. NRA only financially supports candidates and legislation that they believe can be won and support gun rights for the long term and bigger picture. This is probably the reason they don't do a whole lot in the western states as it's a lost cause.
Post by: punaperson on January 09, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
Please remember that HRA is a volunteer run organization, people with full time jobs do this in their off time and also put in a lot of hours for range days, talking to legislators, fundraising and other activities. They could probably use more official volunteers to take charge on issues like this.That may all be very true, however, I don't think that it is at all unreasonable to expect HRA to respond to inquiries regarding a public statement made by the head of the organization five months earlier about pending legal action when no such action was taken to prevent implementation of a database of gun owners. If Mr. Gerwig can make the time for an interview claiming to have "six attorneys looking at this", surely he can make the time to craft a one or two sentence email or press release updating Hawaii residents about the issue. But, I guess not.
They probably also have a very limited budget. $20 annual membership fees for I'm guessing maybe 3,000 members doesn't go far for all of the activities they do.
Post by: zippz on January 10, 2017, 04:01:03 PM
That may all be very true, however, I don't think that it is at all unreasonable to expect HRA to respond to inquiries regarding a public statement made by the head of the organization five months earlier about pending legal action when no such action was taken to prevent implementation of a database of gun owners. If Mr. Gerwig can make the time for an interview claiming to have "six attorneys looking at this", surely he can make the time to craft a one or two sentence email or press release updating Hawaii residents about the issue. But, I guess not.
I get discouraged by non-responses too. They have a bad email system, it just goes to individual members. They should have a group email so that any of their directors can help answer questions.
Post by: London808 on January 10, 2017, 05:16:18 PM
I get discouraged by non-responses too. They have a bad email system, it just goes to individual members. They should have a group email so that any of their directors can help answer questions.
Im sorry but most of the e-mails they sent out are 3-4 days late and are just copys of the NRA e-mails o get anyway. The news letter mostly had unimportant stuff in it and anything worth reading was 2-3 months old already so was irrelevant. I understand they are a non profit but with 3k ish members at $20-$25 a go thats a lot money being stacked up somewhere.
Post by: dustoff003 on January 10, 2017, 06:43:35 PM
I get discouraged by non-responses too. They have a bad email system, it just goes to individual members. They should have a group email so that any of their directors can help answer questions.
Who knows who it goes to if you use the contact us it goes to a general email I'd think. If you click on the Board of Directors tab then the contact me under anyone's name it takes you back to the general contact us page previously mentioned. That leads me to believe that it is a bulk or common email box, the only way you would get to a single person would be if you knew their individual email address.
Poor email system or not 2 going 3 weeks and no reply to my message sent on December 22, 2016 is upsetting in today's digital world.
I guess I have a mission to try to get on the HRA board or as a director when I get back on island.
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Post by: London808 on January 10, 2017, 08:54:20 PM
Who knows who it goes to if you use the contact us it goes to a general email I'd think. If you click on the Board of Directors tab then the contact me under anyone's name it takes you back to the general contact us page previously mentioned. That leads me to believe that it is a bulk or common email box, the only way you would get to a single person would be if you knew their individual email address.
Poor email system or not 2 going 3 weeks and no reply to my message sent on December 22, 2016 is upsetting in today's digital world.
I guess I have a mission to try to get on the HRA board or as a director when I get back on island.
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I have reached out to a director at HRA (and got in contact and had a conversation with) and will hopefully have something from them next week. Dont expect any major details but i should here something.
And just so you guys know. This is the first time i have reached out to HRA in regards to this subject. Not because i dont think they cant help or wouldent want their help but becasue they are slow to get on things. In less them a month i have managed to fund raise over $4500,
Post by: Jl808 on January 10, 2017, 10:36:57 PM
So if you have something you don't like about HRA, step up and volunteer for HRA instead to help change it. They could use some good people's help.
Legislative session will start next week and I suspect that whatever manpower is available will be mostly geared towards that shortly.
Back to original topic, thanks London808 for reaching out to them.
Post by: dustoff003 on January 10, 2017, 10:40:25 PM
So if you have something you don't like about HRA, step up and volunteer for HRA instead. They could use some good people's help.
That is the plan JL. Thanks
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Post by: haynplumma on January 12, 2017, 11:04:12 PM
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Post by: London808 on January 13, 2017, 05:46:35 PM
I have a question since a lot of you seem to know this rap back. If this lawsuit goes in our favor would they remove people that were entered into system for purchasing firearms and would there be compensation involved? Would it be like a class action lawsuit?No, No, Unlikely
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Post by: MuffinMan on January 13, 2017, 08:47:50 PM
I sent a little through paypal.
Me too......
Post by: London808 on January 13, 2017, 08:53:19 PM
I am working on getting 2 tables for the gun show one for information about rapback and one for 12over6.com.
Post by: London808 on January 13, 2017, 09:01:25 PM
Post by: Rocky on January 14, 2017, 08:04:58 AM
Can some one who has enrolled in rapback already and is willing to try something extremely unique and exciting please message me, Preferably some one that dosent mind challenging authority.
challenging authority. :o
If I was enrolled, I'd definitely be your huckleberry ! :D
Post by: TastesLikeMetal on January 14, 2017, 11:03:36 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 15, 2017, 08:34:34 AM
Can some one who has enrolled in rapback already and is willing to try something extremely unique and exciting please message me, Preferably some one that dosent mind challenging authority.I can't promise I would be willing to do what you have in mind but it sounds right up my alley.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 17, 2017, 09:10:35 PM
I was told that in the fine print on the form there is an opt out option. Since we are put in voluntarily by signing the waiver, there is supposed to be a clause that we can write to a certain address saying that we wish to remove our names from the rap back list and when we send them a letter they will take us off rap back.
If this loophole is correct then we might just be able to purchase a gun then go and write the feds asking them to remove us from the list. One problem though may be that when we buy a gun they will find out we are not in and we will have to pay the $42 again.
Does anyone have a copy of the rap back paper to see if this true?
Post by: London808 on January 18, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
I was told at a local gun store today of some fine print on the rap back waiver, a loophole perhaps. I have not yet purchased a gun so I don't have my own copy to verify though.
I was told that in the fine print on the form there is an opt out option. Since we are put in voluntarily by signing the waiver, there is supposed to be a clause that we can write to a certain address saying that we wish to remove our names from the rap back list and when we send them a letter they will take us off rap back.
If this loophole is correct then we might just be able to purchase a gun then go and write the feds asking them to remove us from the list. One problem though may be that when we buy a gun they will find out we are not in and we will have to pay the $42 again.
Does anyone have a copy of the rap back paper to see if this true?
Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.
Post by: punaperson on January 18, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.In other words, if it sounds to good to be true... :shaka:
Post by: punaperson on January 18, 2017, 12:30:19 PM
Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.Just saw this on Hawaii Free Press site. It's the AG notice re RapBack:
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/18941/Hawaii-Gun-Owners-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Fact-Sheet.aspx
One part:
To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer will be sufficient documentation.
* * * * *
I have to wonder what sort of "documentation" would suffice to verify that you have moved all your firearms to a secured storage locker in Arizona? I'll write the AG right now and let you if I ever get an answer. Likely not as they "cannot give legal advice or answer legal questions for the public".
Post by: punaperson on January 18, 2017, 04:21:45 PM
Aloha [punaperson],
I have been forwarded your email in which you requested information on what documentation is sufficient to be unenrolled from Rap Back. I would like to point out, that only those who registered firearms after December 4, 2016 are entered into Rap Back. Therefore, if you had firearms registered PRIOR to this date, you are not enrolled into Rap Back.
You must contact the police chief of the county in which your firearms are registered for information regarding what documentation is sufficient to be unenrolled from Rap Back.
I regret that we are unable to help you.
Regards,
Karen A. Droscoski
Deputy Attorney General
Department of the Attorney General
Criminal Justice Division
333 Queen Street, Suite 200
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
(808) 586-1086
Post by: London808 on January 18, 2017, 04:40:33 PM
Just saw this on Hawaii Free Press site. It's the AG notice re RapBack:
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/18941/Hawaii-Gun-Owners-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Fact-Sheet.aspx
One part:
To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer will be sufficient documentation.
* * * * *
I have to wonder what sort of "documentation" would suffice to verify that you have moved all your firearms to a secured storage locker in Arizona? I'll write the AG right now and let you if I ever get an answer. Likely not as they "cannot give legal advice or answer legal questions for the public".
https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf (https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf)
● To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show
documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are
no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms
have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer
will be sufficient documentation.
I belive that would only remove you from the reporting part of rapback and not from the FBI database itself.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 18, 2017, 11:38:51 PM
https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf (https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf)
● To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show
documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are
no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms
have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer
will be sufficient documentation.
I belive that would only remove you from the reporting part of rapback and not from the FBI database itself.
The FBI biometrics database, NGI, is forever. They may archive records once you're deceased to save space, but they still have it.
Think of it as AFIS, the Fingerprint System. Once you're in that system via whatever source, the prints remain and can be used to find matches from then on. NGI is going to replace and expand upon AFIS. Fingerprints are just one type of biometric.
https://youtu.be/ly4ru_jojXc
https://youtu.be/_TzJ_fME2VQ
Post by: zippz on January 19, 2017, 04:54:29 PM
Tomorrow I'll visit SAF to see if I can get their support.
Post by: London808 on January 19, 2017, 05:34:45 PM
I talked to the manager of the NRA ILA at Shot Show. He didn't know much about Hawaii's Rapback law, which is interesting in that NRA put out articles about it and I'm sure lots of other people submitted inquiries. He's going to get me a contact for our regional ILA representative to discuss the matter. They can also help give us some guidance on grassroots initiatives.
Tomorrow I'll visit SAF to see if I can get their support.
Awesome, Its so hard with big groups like the NRA to 1: get the right person and 2: get the same person.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2017, 06:09:22 PM
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2017, 09:16:48 PM
Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.
So it doesn't matter whether we are entered voluntarily (like how gun owners are) or done by someone (like an employer) without your consent?
I was thinking of going ahead and entering so I can get the form and post the exact wording.
Post by: Heavies on January 19, 2017, 09:43:27 PM
So it doesn't matter whether we are entered voluntarily (like how gun owners are) or done by someone (like an employer) without your consent?The form is right here on the 2nd page of this thread. I posted a reply to one of your other posts with the link before. Check the link.
I was thinking of going ahead and entering so I can get the form and post the exact wording.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.msg226844#msg226844
If you enter by an employer you need to give consent. The difference is that you don't have a constitutionally-guaranteed right to have a job at such and such place. It's up to you if you want that job.
You cannot be searched, monitored, and prodded without warrant or cause with out giving your consent.
You do have a right to keep and bear arms, without infringement, and under sensible and reasonable regulation.
And Looks like soon we will be having even more burdens heaped upon us because we wish to exercise our rights.
Every gun owner in this state needs to get mobilized.
Post by: Happyhappyhappy on January 20, 2017, 02:15:09 PM
Post by: zippz on January 20, 2017, 02:48:01 PM
They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records. Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2017, 03:01:49 PM
I discussed RAPBACK with the founder, Alan M. Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org). He was familiar with Hawaii's Rapback law and the organization will not pursue a civil case as they do not think it would succeed. Like the NRA, SAF appears to be a large organization but is actually limited in resources. They only pursue cases they have a good chance of winning and have a wide ranging effect. They also don't like to challenge cases in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals because they know it is almost impossible to win.
They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records. Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.
That was my understanding and what I was getting at in the other thread about whether on not you would buy another firearm. Yes, many of us have gone through high level screening via FBI, DHS, etc. But it is the notification of the department/office/agency that is key in this instance. For example, if I were to get arrested and convicted of say espionage in Virginia. I am sure my security folks at my work will get notified about it. However, just because my background check is "in the system", it was my understanding that the department/office in Hawaii that will be handling Rapback for firearms owners would get an alert or email. In essence, it's not like being in "the system" for other reasons means that you are being tracked by anyone who has access to that system. I may have misunderstood how the system works and how it was explained to me, but that's my understanding.
Ultimately, I am against Rapback for many reasons. Most of it has to do with principle as well as the haze in which surrounds the whole stink of a "law".
Post by: London808 on January 20, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
I discussed RAPBACK with the founder, Alan M. Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org). He was familiar with Hawaii's Rapback law and the organization will not pursue a civil case as they do not think it would succeed. Like the NRA, SAF appears to be a large organization but is actually limited in resources. They only pursue cases they have a good chance of winning and have a wide ranging effect. They also don't like to challenge cases in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals because they know it is almost impossible to win.
They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records. Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.
They are incorrect. Your information is inputted into the FBI data base and when a trigger effect happens it notifys the Local PD. If that was not the case. You wouldn't need to sign the waiver for the FBI to hold your records. The reason you are added to the database is for "Firearms"
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 20, 2017, 09:11:12 PM
The form is right here on the 2nd page of this thread. I posted a reply to one of your other posts with the link before. Check the link.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.msg226844#msg226844
If you enter by an employer you need to give consent. The difference is that you don't have a constitutionally-guaranteed right to have a job at such and such place. It's up to you if you want that job.
You cannot be searched, monitored, and prodded without warrant or cause with out giving your consent.
You do have a right to keep and bear arms, without infringement, and under sensible and reasonable regulation.
And Looks like soon we will be having even more burdens heaped upon us because we wish to exercise our rights.
Every gun owner in this state needs to get mobilized.
Thanks for the link but what the gun store owner explained to me sounded like a federal form while the ones linked are state forms. Of course I could be misunderstanding but it would be nice if there was a loophole we could exploit so I will see what else I can gather.
Post by: oldfart on January 21, 2017, 07:05:41 AM
(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l348/dnrhand/MONKSEAL_zpsaswnvv2z.jpg) (http://s328.photobucket.com/user/dnrhand/media/MONKSEAL_zpsaswnvv2z.jpg.html)
Post by: zippz on January 27, 2017, 11:21:27 AM
Post by: punaperson on January 27, 2017, 01:52:56 PM
Me and London808 had a good discussion with Daniel from NRA ILA today on Rapback strategies. Dan said it is a tough case to fight, especially under the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, however London808 brought up some very good points and new legal angles that we can base the case on, along with alternative strategies that we'll look into. Looks promising.Mahalo. Give 'em hell my brothers. :shaka:
Post by: London808 on January 27, 2017, 02:56:35 PM
Post by: dustoff003 on February 03, 2017, 12:53:50 AM
Please support London with his efforts and the HCR-PAC this supports the HRA's lobbying.
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Post by: zippz on February 07, 2017, 04:49:56 PM
Post by: London808 on February 08, 2017, 11:49:20 AM
Post by: oldfart on February 08, 2017, 12:15:00 PM
I can confirm have a table at the gun show for the legal fight of stooping rapback & disseminating information on the legal process of of creating and changing laws....
Great I'll try to get some time off to help with your table.
Post by: dustoff003 on March 21, 2017, 10:15:35 PM
Post by: London808 on March 21, 2017, 10:41:22 PM
London808 any post gun show updates?
Post by: London808 on April 19, 2017, 07:14:00 PM
I have a bunch of money in the chest (over $5k). I am witing for the new chief to be hired as thats who makes the decisions on who can get permits and what forms are required. I am also looking into filing lawsuits in the state courts for procedural problems with the law (signing the waiver, paying the fee, who gets the fee, how the data is stored and transferred ect... )
I have had a lot on my plate recently and have had to taqke care of some life stuff before having the time to work on this.
I also have letters going out to the FBI and the AG (USA) seeking clarification on what the city/county/state is using rapback for and if it is legal/approved.
Post by: London808 on April 19, 2017, 07:15:59 PM
Post by: rklapp on April 19, 2017, 08:11:31 PM
Post by: London808 on April 19, 2017, 08:44:17 PM
Perhaps you can show us examples of the letters so we can send out our own along with the addresses.
HPD has to many people on this forum to be putting the letters out publicly, This is a unique legal option and the less time they have to prepare the better.
Post by: Shooter26 on May 01, 2017, 11:53:45 PM
So as many of you know I am moving forward with Legal Action against HPD, City and State with regards to Rapback, The implementation of which starts tomorrow December 5th 2016.
For those unfamiliar with Who I am, My Name is Andre Namiki Roberts, I am a permanent resident of the Untied states having moved here from the untied kingdom in 2006. In 2015 i Applied for a firearms permit and was denied based on a HPD policy that would require me to travel back to the untited kingdom to get a background check done on myself and provided it to them at my own expense (somewhere around $4000) This policy was made with the intention of denying non citizens there 2nd amendment rights. I recognized the implication of what they were doing and confronted them, Over a peiod of 3 days i explained them them what they were doing was wrong. they would not budge, So i contacted a lawyer here in Hawaii who handles civil rights cases and we got working on a lawsuit. After approximately 3 months of work and a lawsuit in federal court, HPD settled with me (whilst admitting no wrong doing) and as well as stooping the unconstitutional/illegal policy they also had to cover my legal expenses.
If you would like to read about this lawsuit you can do so here, http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30504334/uk-citizen-alleges-honolulu-police-depriving-his-gun-rights) or see the actual lawsuit here http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Roberts%20v%20Honolulu%202nd%20Amendment.pdf)
I might be hated for this, but I'll be the devil's advocate.
***Why don't you just apply for a citizenship??? Second Amendment is a right that is for Citizens of the US??? Are you trying to sue them to change the bill of rights??? I was an immigrant, and I knew about the rights per Constitution, so I strived to be a good citizen and eventually was able to obtain my citizenship. I am sorry to say, but your rights are not as much as an American Citizen. I cannot afford to help you fight you personal vendetta with the Constitution. It's not HPD, C&C, or even the State of Hawaii. You are asking to amend the Constitution. About this Rap Back, if you guys are not doing anything wrong, why worry about it? Kinda remind me of all those protesters that's out there creating chaos, but does it with their face covered. I feel like this post was left here to incite people to react with their feelings rather that logic. Let's put your situation with someone who has bad intentions to disrupt the peace in the island, would you guys like that person / terrorist to have easier access? What makes this guy's situation different?***
Now why is this information important ?
I want you to know who i am, That im a real person who is willing to step up when needed to defend my rights (and those of others) I want you to see that im not going to hide behind an online Alias and that i am going to be upfront with thing. Why ? Because im going to ask for help. I have spoke to both Rick and Alan, the lawyers who helped me with my previous lawsuit and they are willing to again work with me to stop rap back. But to do so its going to cost money. The minimum amount given to me was $15k, Why so much ? This is going to be a long fight and lawyers have bills to pay. A lawsuit like this can drag on for months into years and although there is a very good chance we can stop rapback it may take some time.
***Like I said, I cannot afford to fund your attempt to try to amend the constitution. I remember when Arnold Swartzenegger try to change the law to accommodate his desire to run for president when he was the Governor of California. And how will I know that Rick and Alan are better that Beavis and Butthead? I don't know their background, cases won, achievements, ...etc. I could guarantee you that your 5 year mark (minimum time to be a permanent resident to apply for citizenship) will get here before you could ask everyone here to pitch in money to fund your case. I'm sorry if I'm coming out rude, but don't try to change the law if your not even a citizen here. It's like refugees in Europe that tries to implement Sharia Law to accommodate their desire.***
Ways you can help
The biggest way you can help is with cold hard cash. I personally have put $500 in the kitty and so far have had another $300 pledged to help but we need more. You can donate direct to me
via paypal : a_roberts_84@yahoo.co.uk OR info@stoprapback.com
or
via mail you can make a check or money order payable to Andrew Namiki Roberts and mail it to Andrew Namiki Roberts, P.O. BOX 283182, Honolulu, HI 96828
or
In person, I am going to be making more effort to visit the range on weekends (usualy i go weekdays when its quite so no one laughs at me missing)
I am in the process of setting up a gofund me account But was given this notfication :
"The content of your campaign has led us to believe that you may be trying to raise money for a legal matter. You may view our terms and conditions here."
So i am waiting/looking into what caused this.
[Edit] Added GoFundMe Link from this thread https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25630.msg226820#msg226820 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25630.msg226820#msg226820)
https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii (https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii)
***The funny thing is that if people don't know you in this board, I would think that this is some kind of a scam. Yahoo from UK, not real address (P.O. Box being used instead), and breaking the Go Fund Me page rules for realistically personal gain. I don't think anyone else on this board has the same predicament as you.***
I might come out harsh, but it's my Constitutional Right under the first Amendment as a US Citizen.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 02, 2017, 12:12:55 AM
...
Not being "hateful." Just pointing out that you don't have any real idea what you are talking about.
I don't think HPD would have settled and paid attorney's fees if they had been in the right.
Obviously, the state was not abiding by the Constitution or state and federal law, which does cover legal residents.
Quote
The Constitutional rights are of three different types:
1. Constitutional rights that are only secured for citizens. The most notable of these are the rights
to vote and be elected for office.
2. Constitutional rights that are secured for citizens and permanent residents. The common
interpretation of the Constitution is that where it says "the people," it usually refers to citizens and permanent residents.
An example of such right is the second amendment - "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed" (since it says "the people," it refers to citizens and permanent residents, not any other aliens).
3. Rights that everyone has. For example, no one should be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process
of the law, regardless of their immigration status.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-basic-rights-of-legal-immigrants-to-the-US-Are-the-constitutional-rights-the-same-as-American-citizens
In fact, the entire Bill of Rights apply to all legal residents. That's the first 10 amendments, which includes the 2nd. The 5th and 14th guarantee these rights for all residents, not just citizens,
https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/rights-and-responsibilities-permanent-resident/rights-and-responsibilities-green-card-holder-permanent-resident
(http://i.imgur.com/ba2qAvm.jpg)
Post by: London808 on May 02, 2017, 08:45:10 AM
Pretty much everything you said is incorrect,
The bill of rights applies to all legal residents of the u tied statesas people they are citizens,although there is a difference between natural born and immigrants.
This has been affirmed in Yick Wo v. Hopkins, Wong Win v. United States as well as many others throughout the years.
It is not the constitution or bill of rights I was fighting but illegally implemented policy's of the city and HPD. The obvious evidence that they were illegal is that they settled with me and paid my legal fees.
What makes this different to some one that is trying to cause chaos is the fact that I was right from day one, they were infringing on my rights and the rights of other non citizens who now thanks to my first lawsuit can own firearms without having their conditional rights infringed
With regards to eyeing a U.K. E-mail address, that's my e-mail address I have had it since before I moved to the US, rather gen create one just to use for collecting fund I used my real e-mail??
I'm using a USPS mailing address so that I don't have random people Turing up at my door for every pro gun person there is an anti gunner, not to mention potentially tiring my property into a target for some one looking to steal firearms. Using a USPS mail box to scam people would constitute a fellony and they have my ID and information on file. What would you recommend ?
Post by: rklapp on May 02, 2017, 06:14:17 PM
I agree that if we keep our noses clean, this won't affect us but that's not why the FF put the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights. It's to prevent any tyrant in the future from using the rapeback system to identify firearm owners and take the guns away.
Post by: London808 on May 02, 2017, 06:26:29 PM
I agree that if we keep our noses clean, this won't affect us but that's not why the FF put the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights. It's to prevent any tyrant in the future from using the rapeback system to identify firearm owners and take the guns away.
I would disagree, This affects us very much, When you go into the rapback system you are required to sign a waiver to your 4th and 5th amendment rights. This is more then just about a tyrannical goverment (which is a concern) but this is also about being forced to give up some constitutional rights to have another.
Post by: rklapp on May 02, 2017, 07:15:01 PM
I would disagree, This affects us very much, When you go into the rapback system you are required to sign a waiver to your 4th and 5th amendment rights. This is more then just about a tyrannical goverment (which is a concern) but this is also about being forced to give up some constitutional rights to have another.What I meant is that we (probably) won't end up in jail if we keep our noses clean. Of course it affects or rights.
Post by: London808 on October 03, 2017, 08:44:29 PM
Post by: zippz on October 03, 2017, 09:56:24 PM
Trying to find people actually willing to take risks to help is near impossible.
Gotta make some good friends first.
Damn, forgot to give you the donation money at the gun show.
Post by: sikryd on October 05, 2017, 06:51:33 PM
Jared
Post by: z06psi on October 09, 2017, 08:33:39 AM
Trying to find people actually willing to take risks to help is near impossible.
Everyone here knows how corrupt the AG and HPD is. They would violate your rights in a drop of a hat if it served them.
I will be leaving soon permanently and will take up my fight once I am no longer within their grasp.
Post by: London808 on December 22, 2017, 08:25:54 PM
Lets start getting some letters/e-mails going out to see if we can get this worked out.
Honolulu Police Department’s Firearms Unit.
I am writing to request information regarding the departments requirement that those applying for a permit to acquire either a pistol or long gun MUST sign a document identifies as “HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT FIREARMS SECTION : State and National Criminal History Check : Consent and notification” form
This form is not mentioned to my in Hawaii state law HRS 134-2. I would like to know who provided/created the form (and its attachments). What section of HRS 134-2 authorizes/requires its use and who provided the legal interpretation for its use.
Thanks in advance
Andrew Namiki Roberts
Post by: London808 on December 22, 2017, 08:36:45 PM
To whom it may concern.
I am writing to enquire about whether the Hawaii State attorney generals office has provided to the Honolulu police department and/or its chief a legal instruction and or interpretation that requires a person obtaining a permit to acquire a firearm be it pistol, rifle or shotgun sign a form identified by the Honolulu police department as “HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT FIREARMS SECTION : State and National Criminal History Check : Consent and notification” form.
I was provided with a link to a document created by the AG's office that states Entery into rapback is done at time of registration. https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf
This document clearly stats (multiple times) that registration is the factor that enters somebody into rapback and as stated I am wondering if additional instruction was provided stating that it is also required at the time of applying for a permit.
Thanks in Advance
Andrew Namiki Roberts
Post by: hvybarrels on December 23, 2017, 11:51:17 AM
and one out to the Hawaii AG's office.
To whom it may concern.
I am writing to enquire as to enquire about whether the Hawaii State attorney generals office has provided to the Honolulu police department and/or its chief a legal instruction and or interpretation that requires a person obtaining a permit to acquire a firearm be it pistol, rifle or shotgun sign a form identified by the Honolulu police department as “HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT FIREARMS SECTION : State and National Criminal History Check : Consent and notification” form.
I was provided with a link to a document created by the AG's office that states Entery into rapback is done at time of registration. https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf
This document clearly stats (multiple times) that registration is the factor that enters somebody into rapback and as stated I am wondering if additional instruction was provided stating that it is also required at the time of applying for a permit.
Thanks in Advance
Andrew Namiki Roberts
I noticed you have your spell check set to "Limey". I had similar issues using some versions of Linux. Can't argue with the Queen about proper English, but it looks odd to us knuckle-dragging Colonials.
Post by: London808 on December 28, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
Thank you for your inquiring. You can review SB2954 / ACT 108 from 2016 for information on the Rap Back service.
Thank you
HPD Firearms Unit
Notice how they didnt answer the question and also note that the e-mail is not signed by an individual but by the department.
Post by: London808 on December 28, 2017, 03:09:54 PM
I am aware of the wording of the law. I am seeking clarification on the Honolulu police departments interpretation of the law, Which section of the the law HRS 134-2 does HPD interpret to require some one applying for a permit is required to sign a rap back release form and who made that interpretation.
Thanks Andrew Namiki Roberts.
Post by: London808 on January 04, 2018, 09:15:52 AM
As it seems my last e-mail was not received I have again included the information below, may i also have included with your reply the name of the officer who is/has responding to my e-mails.
I am aware of the wording of the law. I am seeking clarification on the Honolulu police departments interpretation of the law, Which section of the the law HRS 134-2 does HPD interpret to require some one applying for a permit is required to sign a Rapback release form and who made that interpretation.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 04, 2018, 10:03:13 AM
Post by: rklapp on January 04, 2018, 02:52:20 PM
Post by: London808 on January 04, 2018, 07:42:07 PM
When applying for the permit, they stamp "RAPBACK PAID" on top to indicate they have received the payment. Perhaps they are afraid that if they require the fee during the registration, they might get confused and forget to collect the fee. Perhaps they are ass-uming that if an applicant is gonna request the permit to acquire, the applicant will naturally have to register the firearm anyways so why not kill two birds with one stone.
What if you get a permit nd never buy a firearm ? why would you need to sign the wavier to be in rapback and why would you have to pay to be in rapback.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 04, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
What if you get a permit nd never buy a firearm ? why would you need to sign the wavier to be in rapback and why would you have to pay to be in rapback.
There are fees for certain government services. You know that when you go in to fill out the applications. If you change your mind, or circumstances force you to not follow through, that's not the police department's fault. They processed your permit based on your request. They keep your money.
If you want removed from RAPBACK, you can petition HPD. If you have no firearms registered in Hawaii (never bought one), it should be straightforward. You're still out the fee.
Post by: London808 on January 04, 2018, 09:06:14 PM
There are fees for certain government services. You know that when you go in to fill out the applications. If you change your mind, or circumstances force you to not follow through, that's not the police department's fault. They processed your permit based on your request. They keep your money.
If you want removed from RAPBACK, you can petition HPD. If you have no firearms registered in Hawaii (never bought one), it should be straightforward. You're sill out the fee.
Take your trolling bullshit to another thread
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 04, 2018, 09:18:11 PM
Take your trolling bullshit to another thread
What makes you think I'm trolling you?
Post by: Shoboshi on May 31, 2018, 04:50:16 PM
Post by: London808 on May 31, 2018, 06:54:07 PM
Just curious if anyone knows the current state of rapback. Is there a legal case still in the works (thought I heard things would move forward once a new police chief was selected) or is here to stay?
Had to take a break on it for a while due to some paperwork issues that have been resolved.
Post by: Q on May 31, 2018, 11:09:53 PM
Had to take a break on it for a while due to some paperwork issues that have been resolved.
This is what I'm trying to figure out:
If I'm already enrolled in the the Hawaii state criminal database and the FBI database due to my job field, why would i need to pay to re-enroll in a system I'm already in?
Post by: Shoboshi on June 01, 2018, 07:29:25 AM
Post by: Heavies on June 01, 2018, 08:41:25 AM
This is what I'm trying to figure out:
If I'm already enrolled in the the Hawaii state criminal database and the FBI database due to my job field, why would i need to pay to re-enroll in a system I'm already in?
So that you can be monitored in Hawaii's illegal federal/local gun registration scheme.
Post by: London808 on June 01, 2018, 08:47:08 AM
This is what I'm trying to figure out:Although you may already be in the database the fee charged is for the reporting function. Each agency that wants that reporting pays the fee.
If I'm already enrolled in the the Hawaii state criminal database and the FBI database due to my job field, why would i need to pay to re-enroll in a system I'm already in?
Post by: London808 on June 06, 2018, 06:37:02 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 07, 2018, 09:29:12 AM
Purchased a handgun today. Will attempt to get a permit tomorrow.
Damn they got you...or did they...
Post by: London808 on June 07, 2018, 11:51:06 AM
Post by: London808 on June 07, 2018, 02:35:19 PM
$42 was/will be refunded
Post by: GlockNewb on June 07, 2018, 02:53:20 PM
Got a phone call
$42 was/will be refunded
How’d that happen?
Post by: drck1000 on June 07, 2018, 03:07:14 PM
Got a phone callSorry to hear that. I thought you had fought successfully (in a previous case) for your right to firearm ownership?
$42 was/will be refunded
You had mentioned looking for a "test case" to challenge RapBack. Is this the first step in that process? Just curious as if the answer is yes, I'm assuming you could use some $$$ to support the cause.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 07, 2018, 07:21:53 PM
Got a phone call
$42 was/will be refunded
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: London808 on June 07, 2018, 08:29:52 PM
Everyone?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
No.
Post by: SOLEsource684 on June 09, 2018, 10:35:35 PM
This is what I'm trying to figure out:
If I'm already enrolled in the the Hawaii state criminal database and the FBI database due to my job field, why would i need to pay to re-enroll in a system I'm already in?
It doesn't make sense at all. I'm already in the system for my job field as well but still had to pay into the RapBack BS
Post by: Q on June 10, 2018, 12:36:16 AM
The online form keeps getting denied
Post by: London808 on June 10, 2018, 01:21:08 AM
Does anyone have the direct email to hpd firearms?
The online form keeps getting denied
hpdfirearm@honolulu.gov
They won’t wander questions tho. They will tell you to contact the state AG, who in turn will say they are forbidden by law to assent questions.
Post by: oldfart on June 10, 2018, 06:52:30 AM
hpdfirearm@honolulu.gov
They won’t wander questions tho. They will tell you to contact the state AG, who in turn will say they are forbidden by law to assent questions.
===========>>>corrected your spelling...
hpdfirearm@honolulu.gov
They won’t answer questions though. They will tell you to contact the state AG, who in turn will say they are forbidden by law to answer questions from subservient sniveling worthless scumbag peons.
===============
Post by: Q on June 10, 2018, 02:08:17 PM
Post by: London808 on June 21, 2018, 10:06:06 AM
THEY SAID NO
Instead of denying my permit they are trying a new approach of saying they never processed it because i did not sign the required forms. Even after explaining that the form is a consent form and is not required by the FBI or any other agency for the purpose of conducting a background check they still insisted it was.
I offered to sign an amended form that had the consent for my fingerprints to be kept/enrolled in the HCJD and rapback databases and they said they will get back to me.
They did the normal routine of dancing around direct questions, refusing to give yes or no answers and in general continued to follow the lines of Im just following orders.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 21, 2018, 10:20:15 AM
Post by: London808 on June 21, 2018, 10:54:41 AM
They could have also mailed you a letter 2 weeks ago or called you, but they chose to make you wait and physically come down.
They did call me, I asked for it to be provided in writing and that I would pick it up. Did not happen tho
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 21, 2018, 10:55:51 AM
A difference without a distinction.
Either way, they made a decision to deny you a permit. They are trying to put the justification on you for failing to follow their application process.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 21, 2018, 01:00:59 PM
Post by: MEENGIRL on June 21, 2018, 01:51:01 PM
Post by: London808 on June 21, 2018, 08:30:36 PM
On June 7th 2018, I Applied for a permit to acquire a pistol at the Firearms department for the Honolulu Police Department located at 801 South Beretania street. Honolulu, HI 96813. I returned on June 21st to pick up my permit and was notified that my permit would not be issued.
As I am not a prohibited person as defined by state or federal laws nor am I a prohibited person based on medical reasoning. I am writing to enquirer as to the grounds on which my permit was denied. As the sole person responsible for approving or denying permit applications I I look forward to your prompt response.
Sincerely,
Andrew Namiki Roberts
Post by: OpenCarryHawaii on July 09, 2018, 07:08:43 PM
Post by: 6716J on November 06, 2018, 09:44:11 AM
Dear Chief Ballard
On June 7th 2018, I Applied for a permit to acquire a pistol at the Firearms department for the Honolulu Police Department located at 801 South Beretania street. Honolulu, HI 96813. I returned on June 21st to pick up my permit and was notified that my permit would not be issued.
As I am not a prohibited person as defined by state or federal laws nor am I a prohibited person based on medical reasoning. I am writing to enquirer as to the grounds on which my permit was denied. As the sole person responsible for approving or denying permit applications I I look forward to your prompt response.
Sincerely,
Andrew Namiki Roberts
Any responses yet?
Post by: London808 on November 06, 2018, 12:14:14 PM
Any responses yet?
No
Post by: 6716J on November 06, 2018, 09:26:01 PM
NoWell damn
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: 6716J on September 27, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
How is the lawsuit going? I haven't seen any updates of where in the process currently.
Any new progress on this? Inquiring minds want to know
Post by: PalisadesKid on September 27, 2019, 09:12:41 AM
Any new progress on this? Inquiring minds want to know
May 2019:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=33991.0
Hawaii Gun Group SUES regarding Rap Back Data:
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/05/gun-group-sues-fbi-for-records-on-state-fingerprint-program/
Post by: zippz on September 27, 2019, 10:16:52 AM
Post by: 6716J on December 09, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
HRS 134-3 (e) No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center
Attn: CHRC Unit
465 S. King Street, Room 102
Honolulu, HI 96813
Please include the name, date of birth, and social security number (optional) of the person you are interested in. There is a $30 fee (U.S. funds) for each record check processed by the CHRC Unit. Payment must be made by money order or cashier’s check and made payable to “State of Hawaii”. Results should be mailed to you within 7-10 days.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And still much mahalos for the work you do
Post by: 6716J on September 28, 2020, 03:51:57 PM
The FBI has agreed to settle the FOIA request and will give us the emails between the State and FBI in segments over the next several months. We'll have an update sometime next month.
Any movement at all on this?
Post by: zippz on October 11, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
Any movement at all on this?
Our Freedom of Information Act request from the FBI is still pending due to COVID. The documents they gave us is 99% redacted, basically blank paper, which makes it useless, we're trying to get them to unredact it.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 11, 2020, 03:53:32 PM
Our Freedom of Information Act request from the FBI is still pending due to COVID. The documents they gave us is 99% redacted, basically blank paper, which makes it useless, we're trying to get them to unredact it.
You mean, the Freedom of Information Act doesn't actually require them to provide .... you know ... "Information?"
I'm shocked!!
Never is the government more concerned about "privacy" than when someone is asking about malfeasance.
Post by: punaperson on October 13, 2020, 08:17:13 PM
Our Freedom of Information Act request from the FBI is still pending due to COVID. The documents they gave us is 99% redacted, basically blank paper, which makes it useless, we're trying to get them to unredact it.Let me guess... the next batch, released in 3-6 months will be 98% redacted... then in another 3-6 months 97% redacted... the "hundred bottles of beer on the wall" Freedom of Information act according the the premier law enforcement in the United States. :crazy:
Post by: dryaku on March 23, 2026, 08:03:31 PM
Does it matter to any of you or do you feel that your only chance of ever owning firearms is to comply with this?
How serious do you think it is to be in the database..... or are we all in there in some form or another.
Post by: dryaku on March 23, 2026, 08:13:06 PM
I will start my own thread.
Mahalo!