2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: nathanm14fan on February 13, 2020, 07:37:16 AM
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For anyone interested in where the standard capacity magazine ban legislation is, the following link has the current bill with amendments. As it stands now, if passed, it would require registration of all 10rd+ magazines, and ban their sale or transfer with the sole exception of inheritance. As always, LEOs are special class of citizenry and exempted for 'official' purposes. The amendments also defer the bill's implementation until 1/1/2021, probably to allow the county PD's to create a registration system that is super onerous.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/SB2519_SD1_.HTM (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2020/bills/SB2519_SD1_.HTM)
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Don't worry Rhoads will revert it back to the original version to just ban all of them.
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This is something we all have to come together for to tell the legislature that we will not comply with this ridiculous law.
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Mags are currently not registered. Other than the law abiding people on this forum, do they expect the rest of the populace to turn in or register their suddenly illegal mags? Their stupidity would be hilarious except for the fact that it is dangerous. Yes, stupid people with power is a danger to your well-being.
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Don't worry Rhoads will revert it back to the original version to just ban all of them.
:grrr:
I wish he had dirt on HRC. . .
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One thing to add into any testimony is that LEO are civilians and would be mandated to leave all 10+ magazines in their armory at the ends of their shifts. They can't bring them home because once off duty they are no longer operating in any official capacity and therefore in violation of the law.
And if it does pass, I would sue to see the armory records of turn-ins at end of shift. In fact I would do it now as I'm pretty sure every LEO in Hawaii takes their pistol mags home. LEO are civilians, they just perform a job and are employed by the government. No different than firefighters or the secretary working for the County Clerk.
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One thing to add into any testimony is that LEO are civilians and would be mandated to leave all 10+ magazines in their armory at the ends of their shifts. They can't bring them home because once off duty they are no longer operating in any official capacity and therefore in violation of the law.
And if it does pass, I would sue to see the armory records of turn-ins at end of shift. In fact I would do it now as I'm pretty sure every LEO in Hawaii takes their pistol mags home. LEO are civilians, they just perform a job and are employed by the government. No different than firefighters or the secretary working for the County Clerk.
The info on the CA mag law had some great info.
This is what I am putting together to submit:
Basis for laws need to be based on facts and rational thought, as opposed knee jerk reaction based on fear and emotion.
FACT: Response times to my residence have been documented in the 10-15 min range in two recent incidents. My residence is approximately (3) blocks away from HPD main station.
FACT: Recent incidents of attacks and robberies have been by groups of perpetrators.
FACT: This bill cited information from past shootings on used of high capacity magazines in shootings. High capacity magazines were NOT used in recent shootings in CA. Fresno 2017 and Oakland 2012 were "CA Legal" 10 round mags.
FACT: Magazine capacity laws cite disproportionate use against LE as a basis. 2016 FBI report shows an average of 9.1 rounds used against LE.
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One thing to add into any testimony is that LEO are civilians and would be mandated to leave all 10+ magazines in their armory at the ends of their shifts. They can't bring them home because once off duty they are no longer operating in any official capacity and therefore in violation of the law.
And if it does pass, I would sue to see the armory records of turn-ins at end of shift. In fact I would do it now as I'm pretty sure every LEO in Hawaii takes their pistol mags home. LEO are civilians, they just perform a job and are employed by the government. No different than firefighters or the secretary working for the County Clerk.
They will use the "always on duty" line. Because then that would mean their g17 mags would also have to be turned in at the end of shift.
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One thing to add into any testimony is that LEO are civilians and would be mandated to leave all 10+ magazines in their armory at the ends of their shifts. They can't bring them home because once off duty they are no longer operating in any official capacity and therefore in violation of the law.
Depends on what law enforcement agency it is. HPD is mandated by policy to carry 24 hours a day and respond to serious incidents off duty. Many DOD police have to turn in their guns at the end of the shift and are not authorized to CCW off duty.
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Mags are currently not registered. Other than the law abiding people on this forum, do they expect the rest of the populace to turn in or register their suddenly illegal mags? Their stupidity would be hilarious except for the fact that it is dangerous. Yes, stupid people with power is a danger to your well-being.
They don't expect anybody to comply with the law.
Democrats pass stupid laws so they have the "tools" to hammer you when they
are finally in a position to use them. I predict that if Trump is not re-elected in
2020 you will see a gun confiscation law passed in Hawaii in 2021.
It will pass and we will have to proceed from there.
Maybe Kuleana will get his separate Hawaiian nation located on the outer islands.
Separate from Honolulu county
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They don't expect anybody to comply with the law.
Democrats pass stupid laws so they have the "tools" to hammer you when they
are finally in a position to use them. I predict that if Trump is not re-elected in
2020 you will see a gun confiscation law passed in Hawaii in 2021.
It will pass and we will have to proceed from there.
Maybe Kuleana will get his separate Hawaiian nation located on the outer islands.
Separate from Honolulu county
They are not "outer islands" they are neighbor islands.
Per Senator Roslyn Baker
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They are not "outer islands" they are neighbor islands.
Per Senator Roslyn Baker
Then why are we treated like slaves?
We send them all our money and they give us bad schools, bad roads, horrible
overpriced government union contracts, and really bad laws?
I'll stick with outer.
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Depends on what law enforcement agency it is. HPD is mandated by policy to carry 24 hours a day and respond to serious incidents off duty. Many DOD police have to turn in their guns at the end of the shift and are not authorized to CCW off duty.
So by their mandated policy (is it in writing?) they would be defacto forbidden from consuming alcohol? They are in complete immediate actionable control of firearms and any alcohol would be an impairment. I could definitely see HPD being sued if an off-duty LEO discharged a firearm and was found to have ANY amount of alcohol in his/her system. Public in jeopardy, wrongful shooting, etc.
I guess at the end of the day, they want to create 2 distinct classes of people, elites (gov employees and $$$ who can buy gov employees) and everyone else (little people/us) so it matters none to them what the law says. Laws for thee, not for me.
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So by their mandated policy (is it in writing?) they would be defacto forbidden from consuming alcohol? They are in complete immediate actionable control of firearms and any alcohol would be an impairment. I could definitely see HPD being sued if an off-duty LEO discharged a firearm and was found to have ANY amount of alcohol in his/her system. Public in jeopardy, wrongful shooting, etc.
There was that guy who shot the bartender with his revolver while off duty. He was "showing" it to her. IDK what ever happened with that one.
What people need to know is if the rifle mag limit passes, law makers will then go for 7rds, then 3rds, and so on. It's a stepping stone to another law. It took many years for them to finally go for rifle mags after banning pistol mags in the 90's.
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WTF? We're supposed to serialize our mags and then register them with the PD.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3p5fg2.jpg)
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We are to wait for instructions from whoever is in charge of this and then immediately comply. Maybe they can create a Magazine Management Bureau to get more people on the state payroll. You know, something like the Storm Water Monitoring bullshit to increase taxes.
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WTF? We're supposed to serialize our mags and then register them with the PD.
That hasn't been determined. When Connecticut passed a similar law in 2013 they required an online form to be filled out with quantity of mags declared. No serial #'s or stickers that I know of, it was all on good faith. That WOULD be the easiest way to do it....but knowing HPD they will want in-person registration and mandate some sort of inventory system. As it stands, it's just up to the individual county's to implement a system of their design, ripe for infringement.
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2014/rpt/2014-R-0252.htm (https://www.cga.ct.gov/2014/rpt/2014-R-0252.htm)
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all I have is a bunch of springs, some metal and plastic.
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We should all register them at the same time! I will just turn in everything O0
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3p5fg2.jpg)
"They are not outer islands"
"The Attorney General is female."
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good thing I don't own any magazines...
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I don't think Marbury v. Madison (1803) would help.
Just a thought. Can we be considered part of an unorganized militia? If so would we have the duty to be armed and able?
Unorganized militia seems to be kind of muddied in definition. Would you have to declare yourself part of it? If you form a 'militia group' what sort of legal standing would you have? What sort of duties would then you have? Who would you answer to if anyone?
Any thoughts? ???
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I don't think Marbury v. Madison (1803) would help.
Just a thought. Can we be considered part of an unorganized militia? If so would we have the duty to be armed and able?
Unorganized militia seems to be kind of muddied in definition. Would you have to declare yourself part of it? If you form a 'militia group' what sort of legal standing would you have? What sort of duties would then you have? Who would you answer to if anyone?
Any thoughts? ???
Universal Citation: HI Rev Stat § 121-1 (2013)
§121-1 Militia. The militia of the State shall consist of every resident able-bodied citizen of the United States who is seventeen years old or older and under forty-six years of age and all other able-bodied residents of that age who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States. The militia shall be composed of four classes:
(1) The federally organized and recognized national guard,
(2) The remainder of the organized militia to be known as the Hawaii state defense force,
(3) The naval militia,
(4) The unorganized militia.
The unorganized militia shall consist of those members of the militia who are not members of the national guard, the naval militia, or the state defense force. The unorganized militia shall be subject to active military duty only when called or ordered into the service of the State for such period as is required. They may be assigned to existing organizations of the Hawaii national guard, the naval militia, or the state defense force, or otherwise as the exigencies require. [L 1967, c 196, pt of §1; HRS §121-1; am L 1969, c 15, §1(a); am L 1988, c 135, §1]
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Forming of an unorganized militia would require an OK from a Sheriff or Chief of Police.
(https://i.imgflip.com/3p9x9u.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/3p9x9u)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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:grrr:
I wish he had dirt on HRC. . .
No one needs "dirt" on hrc because there's enough public information of her already.... I would add in the clinton body count in just for the hell of it.
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I'm still debating stocking up on 10 round 458 SOCOM magazines... Prolly should just to be sure.
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Depends on what law enforcement agency it is. HPD is mandated by policy to carry 24 hours a day and respond to serious incidents off duty. Many DOD police have to turn in their guns at the end of the shift and are not authorized to CCW off duty.
FWIW, All civillian DoD police officers as well as active duty military police (Any LEO, including BOP) are covered under USC 926B (LEOSA) and may carry concealed firearms off duty provided they follow the instructions within 926B. There are some exceptions such as age and agency restrictions which may prevent some from carrying, but generally if they posses agency issued credentials identifying them as LEOs or Police officers they are good to go.
Unlike HPD, while off duty these components are not granted powers of arrest and operate as a private citizens if involved in a shooting, i.e. no agency representation.
Good to see they are citing a single liberal organization in order to take away our freedom. Seems legit.
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No need magazines...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/2251ce1a7f5ae64d3d1b91580c85e2f4.jpg)
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I assume the bill passed?
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I assume the bill passed?
Technically not yet. It crosses over to the House where we get another chance to submit trstimony.
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I assume the bill passed?
2/27/2020 S The committee(s) on JDC recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, WITH AMENDMENTS. The votes in JDC were as follows: 4 Aye(s): Senator(s) K. Rhoads, J.Keohokalole, Gabbard, Kim; Aye(s) with reservations: none ; 1 No(es): Senator(s) Fevella; and 0 Excused: none.
Reported amendments: 1. Goes into effect immediately upon signing by the governor. 2. No registration (why register what you must destroy, turn in, or ship out of state?).
Technically not yet. It crosses over to the House where we get another chance to submit trstimony.
As above, rubber stamp coming from the House. Mr. and Mrs. Hawaii, turn 'em all in.
The votes ARE here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDO86iSKWU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDO86iSKWU)
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When it passes, as we all know it will, I wonder how many they will collect? I guess I might have to go out and buy ONE 10 rd mag for my AR15.
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When it passes, as we all know it will, I wonder how many they will collect? I guess I might have to go out and buy ONE 10 rd mag for my AR15.
I have parts kits .... nothing illegal to see here.
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When it passes, as we all know it will, I wonder how many they will collect? I guess I might have to go out and buy ONE 10 rd mag for my AR15.
The senate version has a grandfather clause. The house one doesnt.
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If the 10 mound magazines are really that dangerous, they should ban them for HPD and military too. Why do they get an exemption?
Why does HPD or the military need more than 10 rounds?
HPD should lead by example for this damn law that they are pushing is a good idea.
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If the 10 mound magazines are really that dangerous, they should ban them for HPD and military too. Why do they get an exemption?
Why does HPD or the military need more than 10 rounds?
HPD should lead by example for this damn law that they are pushing is a good idea.
I can't find the article about HPD officers shooting a knife wielding suspect in Palolo over 10 times. I think it was justified but perhaps some officers need the extra capacity because they are not as proficient as they think they are or the dynamics of the event was a factor. In all fairness, a person doesn't really know until that situation comes up. So with that said, if HPD needs standard mag capacity to deal with events like that it is reasonably unfair for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves in such dynamic situations such as a knife encounter with 1 or more suspects.
From a PR perspective, I think that the HPD coming out for legislation like this deflects from the public awareness that officers shot and killed quite a few suspects in 2019.
I also think its a position of power and authority. I've met quite a few officers who believe that only they should have guns and that they are the solution to ALL your crime problems - no one else.
I think that's a symptom of living in a fat govt. state like Hawaii - where the general mentality is to call 911 or rely on govt for this & that.
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If the 10 mound magazines are really that dangerous, they should ban them for HPD and military too. Why do they get an exemption?
Why does HPD or the military need more than 10 rounds?
HPD should lead by example for this damn law that they are pushing is a good idea.
I can't comment for the military, but HPD should play by the same rules as the citizens. My guess is they don't want to be outgunned if shit goes down.
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I just realized the typo on my previous post.
30 round mags! Not 10 mound mags. :crazy:
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The testimonies are enlightening - first up is Ballard's letter supporting the legislation and taking issue with the grandfathering clause. Even a state like CA had that clause for 18 years...they seriously think that ex post facto laws are constitutional? 🤔😡
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When it passes, as we all know it will, I wonder how many they will collect? I guess I might have to go out and buy ONE 10 rd mag for my AR15.
"Good news" is just think how much space there will be at the rifle range ? :wacko:
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I can't find the article about HPD officers shooting a knife wielding suspect in Palolo over 10 times. I think it was justified but perhaps some officers need the extra capacity because they are not as proficient as they think they are or the dynamics of the event was a factor. In all fairness, a person doesn't really know until that situation comes up. So with that said, if HPD needs standard mag capacity to deal with events like that it is reasonably unfair for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves in such dynamic situations such as a knife encounter with 1 or more suspects.
From a PR perspective, I think that the HPD coming out for legislation like this deflects from the public awareness that officers shot and killed quite a few suspects in 2019.
I also think its a position of power and authority. I've met quite a few officers who believe that only they should have guns and that they are the solution to ALL your crime problems - no one else.
I think that's a symptom of living in a fat govt. state like Hawaii - where the general mentality is to call 911 or rely on govt for this & that.
Almost all comments on fb on khon, kitv,hhn,ssh pages were against the chief and shame on her.
The public has spoken and is with us.
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Almost all comments on fb on khon, kitv,hhn,ssh pages were against the chief and shame on her.
The public has spoken and is with us.
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they don't care...
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everyone remember 458 socom and 50 beowolf AR15 mags are 10 round mags.
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they don't care...
When I call, I ask if they read FB comments, and they said no. Nor do they follow SSH. So either lying or out of touch with the people.
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When I call, I ask if they read FB comments, and they said no. Nor do they follow SSH. So either lying or out of touch with the people.
Both
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I think that's a symptom of living in a fat govt. state like Hawaii - where the general mentality is to call 911 or rely on govt for this & that.
But hey....at least we are getting "affordable housing" from the gubmint. $500K for a studio is good right? Family of 4 fit right?
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Almost all comments on fb on khon, kitv,hhn,ssh pages were against the chief and shame on her.
The public has spoken and is with us.
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Until they are UNELECTED en masse, they don't give 2 shtz about what the public has to say...
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When does the vote go to the house?
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When does the vote go to the house?
has to be voted upon by full senate...
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has to be voted upon by full senate...
ok, thanks
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Wish they would let us decide
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/let-voters-decide-on-high-capacity-magazine-limits/
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We'll need 30 rounders to defend our stash of toilet paper and Lysol from covid zombies.
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Wish they would let us decide
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/let-voters-decide-on-high-capacity-magazine-limits/
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No, we don't. CA is a great example of the perils of citizen-led referendums and all of the second and third-order repercussions that follow.
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Wish they would let us decide
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/let-voters-decide-on-high-capacity-magazine-limits/
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That always seems like the best option, until the voters decide to voluntarily surrender individual rights in exchange for the promise of gov't-provided security.
We have a representative gov't model for a reason. What's popular with voters today could be a major problem for them tomorrow. With the MSM we have now, it's too easy to convince the average low-information voter to vote against the best interests of the public.
Imagine a city of 3M voting to restrict water usage in a farming community of 30K just so the city dwellers can use that potentially scarce water on their lawns and in their pools.
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Wish they would let us decide
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/let-voters-decide-on-high-capacity-magazine-limits/
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....
Would these be the same voters that elected mazie, schatz, ige, .....?
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Points taken...
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If this bill passes there could be unintended consequences for police in the state. Looks like alot of private sellers and even some larger distributors around the country wont sell to LEO's in ban states even though they are exempt. I hope this doesnt negatively affect HPD's ability to replenish their supplies.
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If this bill passes there could be unintended consequences for police in the state. Looks like alot of private sellers and even some larger distributors around the country wont sell to LEO's in ban states even though they are exempt. I hope this doesnt negatively affect HPD's ability to replenish their supplies.
Some sellers will sell and ship if the LEO sends copy of their badge number and department ID. Others will say FU because you deprive citizens of the rights you are so heinously enforcing. It's a crap shoot.
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Some sellers will sell and ship if the LEO sends copy of their badge number and department ID. Others will say FU because you deprive citizens of the rights you are so heinously enforcing. It's a crap shoot.
Hope its the latter of the 2. Or LEO has to go through their own armory and submit the proper requisitions and wait. So if a LEO has a rifle that doesn't meet the department list, then they cannot get more mags because no department approved rifle is owned and cannot be used. Same would go for pistol mags.
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Uh question. I read that bill. And just skimmed the comments.
So if you have a 30 round mag prior to this bill. Can you even use it at the range?
Unless i missed something, it seems like this bill is JUST about acquiring a magazine that has 30 plus rounds.
Edit:
Nevermind. I found my answer. Itll be a class C felony. I think.
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If this bill passes there could be unintended consequences for police in the state. Looks like alot of private sellers and even some larger distributors around the country wont sell to LEO's in ban states even though they are exempt. I hope this doesnt negatively affect HPD's ability to replenish their supplies.
they will "search take"
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Uh question. I read that bill. And just skimmed the comments.
So if you have a 30 round mag prior to this bill. Can you even use it at the range?
Unless i missed something, it seems like this bill is JUST about acquiring a magazine that has 30 plus rounds.
Edit:
Nevermind. I found my answer. Itll be a class C felony. I think.
As written, the Senate Bill grandfathers ownership, so the use of a rifle LCM would not be a Class C felony if it's "pre-ban". Subsection C (banning LCMs) has an exemption (the grandfathering). Subsection F (the Class C felony part) only applies to subsection C and not its exemptions.
Confusing, I know. The House bill has NO GRANDFATHERING....and at this juncture we can only hope to lobby for the grandfathering clause to survive the conference committee process that will take place before whatever final bill gets in front of Ige.
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Senate PSM committee did not put grandfathering into HB1902. Chair Nishihara wasn't there so Wakai was leading the committee with HPD saying grandfathering isn't feasible. House committee will likely remove grandfathering from SB2529.
I rate the odds of grandfathering staying in is 30% now. Its all up to Sen Keohokalole and Gabbard to decide in the JDC committee.
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I rate the odds of grandfathering staying in is 30% now. Its all up to Sen Keohokalole and Gabbard to decide in the JDC committee.
So time to make some phone calls and send some emails?
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So time to make some phone calls and send some emails?
Yup.
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What does this mean - "This measure has been deleted from the meeting scheduled on Wednesday 03-18-20 2:00PM in conference room 325."
Is it still active? Also, Duncan v Beccera says this mag cap ban is illegal, how are they getting around that?
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All gun related bills are dead for this session due to corona.
But you can bet your ass that they will be back next session. So we need to be prepared to fight them. Take time off to show up at hearings is super important.
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Not dead yet. Likely dead. No promises though.