Same way serial numbers for other items and vehicles help to solve crimes. It can tell you the current owner which can be the first in a line of clues that leads to the suspect.

Say you sold your gun to a friend but he never registered it because he is a criminal. This gun is used in a crime and police come knocking on your door. You say that you sold it to your friend so police go knock on his door. Your criminal friend probably denies any wrongdoing but police will at least know his name. Police find video of the incident which shows your friend committing the crime. Because they tracked the gun registration they could get your friends name and realize that it is him in the video whereas they might not be able to figure out who is in the video.

Another scenario. A guy kills his wife with his registered gun but he disposes of the gun and says it was an intruder. Cops can see the husband has a firearm registered to his name and they can verify it os missing. Then a search later finds a gun thrown in the bushes and they use the serial number to realize this is the firearm belonging to the husband whereas they might otherwise not know what crime the gun was connected to.

A registration isn't a magic bullet for police to solve the case, it isn't a guarantee that they will have all the evidence they need, but a registration is definitely something they can use to help them solve the case.

Heck, how many times do you think license plates on cars end up helping cops solve the crime?  (A lot)

Scenerio 1

Or cops run serial# and go to FFL and ask for records of who they sold it to. No registration required.

Scenerio 2

Still have to match balistics with gun found outside. And see above for going to FFL to track owner down.

All registration does is makes it harder for legal citizens to buy and stop them because it is a pain in the ass.  And add rapback.

Like flap said, i guess the other 49 states solve no gun crimes because they dont require all guns to be registered.

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Scenerio 1

Or cops run serial# and go to FFL and ask for records of who they sold it to. No registration required.

Scenerio 2

Still have to match balistics with gun found outside. And see above for going to FFL to track owner down.

All registration does is makes it harder for legal citizens to buy and stop them because it is a pain in the ass.  And add rapback.

Like flap said, i guess the other 49 states solve no gun crimes because they dont require all guns to be registered.

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That wasn't me, but I'll add my endorsement to that comment anyway.   

Very few states have mandatory registration.   They must not solve any gun crimes...

Hawaii has had mandatory registration of all firearms since 1994.  How many crimes have been solved by the requirements?  I'd say the cost to benefit ratio must be awful.

I was thinking about a new versions of CLUE for Millennials  ....

The playing cards are all the same with two changes:  (1) the revolver has a serial number, and (2) there is a new set of cards called "Registration" each with the name of one suspect and the revolver's serial number. 

In the "solution" envelope, if the weapon card is "revolver", and the registration doesn't match the suspect card, you lose.  In fact, there's no way to solve that iteration of the game if the registration card and suspect card don't match.

Maybe it'll teach future generations that crimes happen outside of the legislated control systems we create such as gun registration.

 

Scenerio 1

Or cops run serial# and go to FFL and ask for records of who they sold it to. No registration required.

Scenerio 2

Still have to match balistics with gun found outside. And see above for going to FFL to track owner down.

All registration does is makes it harder for legal citizens to buy and stop them because it is a pain in the ass.  And add rapback.

Like flap said, i guess the other 49 states solve no gun crimes because they dont require all guns to be registered.

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HO LEE FUK!!!! You said RAPBACK ....   BWAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!  Because that system works so well  . At least to take our money.
Funny how they didn't reduce the cost even though the price increase was done via legislative process and specific for RapeYou, I mean RapBack, so the cost is supposed to have gone back down to the pre RB ripoff scheme. Add that in to the lawsuit.... (i know it's not this thread but hows it going on that front?)

Very few states have mandatory registration.   They must not solve any gun crimes...

A bit of a non sequitur. The lack of registration isn't proof mandatory registration doesn't help, it just shows they haven't decided to for whatever reason.

You're the King of Strawman Arguments.

LOL!!!     

Voter ID is ENFORCED at the polling place, because the PICTURE ID ISSUED BY THE GOV'T is difficult to alter or counterfeit nowadays.  Even so, who is going to spend the time and money trying to vote with a bogus ID and risk a felony?  Especially if they are "undocumented guests" of our great nation.

Maybe if everyone wanting to sell a gun had to drop it off at the police station for sellers to pick up, your screwed-up hypothetical strawman would be at least 1% valid.  Then the process could be 100% enforced at the point of executing the transaction, just like voting at the polls.

Who is going to risk trying to vote on a fake ID and risk a felony? Criminals, duh. You know, the same type of people who would risk buying a gun with a fake ID or other false info.

Nothing I said is a straw man, I am calling you out because to intentionally or ignorantly mis-stated my argument.

Scenerio 1

Or cops run serial# and go to FFL and ask for records of who they sold it to. No registration required.

Scenerio 2

Still have to match balistics with gun found outside. And see above for going to FFL to track owner down.

All registration does is makes it harder for legal citizens to buy and stop them because it is a pain in the ass.  And add rapback.

Like flap said, i guess the other 49 states solve no gun crimes because they dont require all guns to be registered.

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Scenario 1:
Yeah, a possibility but much more difficult. It will give you the name of the first buyer but not the last owner. Imagine the gun was sold 5 times, that's 5 people you have to locate, hope they cooperate with/are able to interview.

Scenario 2
Of course you would still need to test for ballistics, residual DNA, powder residue, etc. I never said the registration makes it open and shut, it just gives law enforcement a solid lead.


Not that I am not pushing gun registration as a policy, only acknowledging both sides of the debate. If we refuse to admit there are advantages to firearms being registered then we are no better than those who refuse to admit registration could lead to confiscation.


Should we do away with car registrations?

Scenario 1:
Yeah, a possibility but much more difficult. It will give you the name of the first buyer but not the last owner. Imagine the gun was sold 5 times, that's 5 people you have to locate, hope they cooperate with/are able to interview.

Scenario 2
Of course you would still need to test for ballistics, residual DNA, powder residue, etc. I never said the registration makes it open and shut, it just gives law enforcement a solid lead.


Not that I am not pushing gun registration as a policy, only acknowledging both sides of the debate. If we refuse to admit there are advantages to firearms being registered then we are no better than those who refuse to admit registration could lead to confiscation.


Should we do away with car registrations?

Cars arent in the bill of rights. Nor any form of transportation.  Cant exercise 2a in hawaii without registration.  So HI violates the 2a. But no one has enough $ for a challenge of every infeingement HI passed.

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Cars arent in the bill of rights. Nor any form of transportation.  Cant exercise 2a in hawaii without registration.  So HI violates the 2a. But no one has enough $ for a challenge of every infeingement HI passed.

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I understand that but my point was to illustrate that serial number registration helps to solve crimes, whether the item with the serial number is related to a constitutional right or not.

I don't think I would agree that registration requirements violate the 2nd amendment though as registration does not infringe someone's ability to own a firearm. Really confiscation is the main argument against registration in my opinion.

A bit of a non sequitur. The lack of registration isn't proof mandatory registration doesn't help, it just shows they haven't decided to for whatever reason.

Nor is not having it proof that requiring it helps at all

I understand that but my point was to illustrate that serial number registration helps to solve crimes, whether the item with the serial number is related to a constitutional right or not.

I don't think I would agree that registration requirements violate the 2nd amendment though as registration does not infringe someone's ability to own a firearm. Really confiscation is the main argument against registration in my opinion.

So, to be logically consistent, you don't think having to "register" to exercise a right violates the first or fourth or fifth amendments either, right? Should people have to register for each right they want to exercise? If not, why not, considering you believe they should have to register to exercise the second, without that being unconstitutional or a violation of any kind?

I don't think I would agree that registration requirements violate the 2nd amendment though as registration does not infringe someone's ability to own a firearm. Really confiscation is the main argument against registration in my opinion.

It does infringe on someones ability to own a firearm.  Because if it isn't registered, then the person can get arrested and become a felon.  And no way to buy from LGS without registering.  And many private sellers will not sell unless you "meet them at HPD".

Or if someone buys a rifle, the LGS sends all purchasers info to HPD.  And if that person never register, they get a call.  And failure to respond will have HPD knocking on their door.

Compared to the mainland where 4473 is done and then the person continues on with their day.

So, to be logically consistent, you don't think having to "register" to exercise a right violates the first or fourth or fifth amendments either, right? Should people have to register for each right they want to exercise? If not, why not, considering you believe they should have to register to exercise the second, without that being unconstitutional or a violation of any kind?

As I see it I think it is hard to make the argument that requiring registration really infringes on your right to own a firearm. It doesn't prevent you from purchasing a firearm, it only requires you to do something after you have purchased it.

You have to show ID as proof of name and age when buying a gun store, is that an unreasonable infringement? It's harder to get an ID than it is to register your gun. They charge tax at the gun store, does that extra 4% infringe on your right to own a gun?

So as I look at it, under the language of the 2nd amendment, I don't think a good argument can be made that registration really violates the 2nd amendment.

As I see it I think it is hard to make the argument that requiring registration really infringes on your right to own a firearm. It doesn't prevent you from purchasing a firearm, it only requires you to do something after you have purchased it.

You have to show ID as proof of name and age when buying a gun store, is that an unreasonable infringement? It's harder to get an ID than it is to register your gun. They charge tax at the gun store, does that extra 4% infringe on your right to own a gun?

So as I look at it, under the language of the 2nd amendment, I don't think a good argument can be made that registration really violates the 2nd amendment.

Some Supreme court decision decided we had a right to Privacy.
That allows for unlimited Abortions.
I think I have a right to privacy over what I own,
transport in, and use on private property,
just like women that kill their babies.

Boiling a frog.

Add up all the "not an infringement" hurdles, and at what point have you reached infringement?

If we made voting (also a civil right) as difficult to accomplish as buying a gun from an FFL, you'd see every politician from both sides of the ideological aisle raising holy hell.

It does infringe on someones ability to own a firearm.  Because if it isn't registered, then the person can get arrested and become a felon.  And no way to buy from LGS without registering (not true if removing from HI within 5 days, just need LG permit).  And many private sellers will not sell unless you "meet them at HPD".

Or if someone buys a rifle, the LGS sends all purchasers info to HPD.  And if that person never register, they get a call (who gets a call?).  And failure to respond will have HPD knocking on their door.

Compared to the mainland where 4473 is done and then the person continues on with their day.

So here's a nasty little dilemma for the LGS... What if a person (tourist, short term worker, MIL) obtains a LG permit (because ANYBODY can purchase long guns anywhere in USA) and goes and buys any long gun then takes it back where they live or next duty station (say TX, NV, ID - where no reg req't)? How does a HI LGS resolve this? No proof the buyer ever left the island but no proof they stayed? Is the burden on the LGS or the buyer? And if the buyer, how do they register it if they live on the mainland? And why would they?

Some Supreme court decision decided we had a right to Privacy.
That allows for unlimited Abortions.
I think I have a right to privacy over what I own,
transport in, and use on private property,
just like women that kill their babies.

Doesn't really work though, the SCOTUS didn't allow for unlimited abortions...

So here's a nasty little dilemma for the LGS... What if a person (tourist, short term worker, MIL) obtains a LG permit (because ANYBODY can purchase long guns anywhere in USA) and goes and buys any long gun then takes it back where they live or next duty station (say TX, NV, ID - where no reg req't)? How does a HI LGS resolve this? No proof the buyer ever left the island but no proof they stayed? Is the burden on the LGS or the buyer? And if the buyer, how do they register it if they live on the mainland? And why would they?

Once they leave the store, it's not the LGS's problem.  They fax the bill of sale or whatevers required to HPD.  So the person will probably get a call from HPD and if they say their out of state, then I'm sure HPD will drop it and no further action.  Because to go after someone will not end in their favor and maybe registration done away with completely (total guess)

So here's a nasty little dilemma for the LGS... What if a person (tourist, short term worker, MIL) obtains a LG permit (because ANYBODY can purchase long guns anywhere in USA) and goes and buys any long gun then takes it back where they live or next duty station (say TX, NV, ID - where no reg req't)? How does a HI LGS resolve this? No proof the buyer ever left the island but no proof they stayed? Is the burden on the LGS or the buyer? And if the buyer, how do they register it if they live on the mainland? And why would they?

Once they leave the store, it's not the LGS's problem.  They fax the bill of sale or whatevers required to HPD.  So the person will probably get a call from HPD and if they say their out of state, then I'm sure HPD will drop it and no further action.  Because to go after someone will not end in their favor and maybe registration done away with completely (total guess) ---(PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!)

That may be an avenue to pursue if anyone has a LG permit and is leaving the state and wants to test that water. And if there is a "forcible" request to register, maybe start another suit with the undeterred Alan Beck for forced registration even though firearm not in Hi.

That may be an avenue to pursue if anyone has a LG permit and is leaving the state and wants to test that water. And if there is a "forcible" request to register, maybe start another suit with the undeterred Alan Beck for forced registration even though firearm not in Hi.

Again, total guess, but this is why they probably over look the 5 day reg period.  And give a call to remind someone to come in.  I'm sure no on told HPD no.  No on is willing to test it and become a felon for an unregistered firearm, then to challenge in court.