Yes, can we get someone else to represent the anti-CCW camp? I was against banning him as well because I think it's good to have different point of views on the forum... otherwise it's just a "preaching to the choir" type of deal. But it's obvious sensible debate was not within his capabilities. Next!

Oh just a side note, the largest portion of military service members will be authorized to carry when the Thune amendment goes down.  Since most of us are not "residents" per-se (in a legal tax way), we will qualify to carry since Hawaii DOES have a CCW provision.

If you didn't know or were not aware, the Thune Amendment will allow reciprocity with all states who have a concealed carry law.  My permit from Georgia (Or utah, or florida, or any other place in the United States) will be valid here.

KEEP HAWAII HAWAII..  SAY NO TO CCW IN OUR ISLAND HOME!!!

While I completely agree that Oahu (I have not been to the other islands yet so I cannot comment on them) has been transformed from a stunning tropical island to an urban wasteland, that doesn't change the fact that CCW would make it a safer place to live NOW. No one can go back and change the past, all we can do is move forward from the point which we are at now.

I will say though, that I find it incredibly ironic that you are against the 2nd Amendment which, at it's core, was put in place to allow The People to defend themselves FROM A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. Of all the people out there, I feel that Hawaiians should be among the MOST sensitive towards our right to keep and bear arms.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

- Alex

While I completely agree that Oahu (I have not been to the other islands yet so I cannot comment on them) has been transformed from a stunning tropical island to an urban wasteland, that doesn't change the fact that CCW would make it a safer place to live NOW. No one can go back and change the past, all we can do is move forward from the point which we are at now.

I will say though, that I find it incredibly ironic that you are against the 2nd Amendment which, at it's core, was put in place to allow The People to defend themselves FROM A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. Of all the people out there, I feel that Hawaiians should be among the MOST sensitive towards our right to keep and bear arms.

Quote

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

Quote

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

- Alex

Most Hawaiians hate guns..   TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT??  Alex do you not work for the government??

Most Hawaiians hate guns..   

Sigh.

TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT??  Alex do you not work for the government??

Yes, I swore an oath to SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, against all enemies FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

- Alex

Quote from: Alex Europa on December 30, 2010, 08:51:07 PM

While I completely agree that Oahu (I have not been to the other islands yet so I cannot comment on them) has been transformed from a stunning tropical island to an urban wasteland, that doesn't change the fact that CCW would make it a safer place to live NOW. No one can go back and change the past, all we can do is move forward from the point which we are at now.

I will say though, that I find it incredibly ironic that you are against the 2nd Amendment which, at it's core, was put in place to allow The People to defend themselves FROM A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. Of all the people out there, I feel that Hawaiians should be among the MOST sensitive towards our right to keep and bear arms.

Quote

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

Quote

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

- Alex

Most Hawaiians hate guns..   TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT??  Alex do you not work for the government??

1960's riots were because of a tyrannical government, and like Alex said yes -- all enemies foreign and domestic.

If the Hawaiians had guns when Cook landed, they wouldn't have a problem today.

If the Hawaiians had guns when the Marines landed, they'd still have a Monarchy

As I've been told, Kamehameha I Had a pretty good military going, after his passing, it went downhill.

Should have seen the look on some of Bump'ys followers when I met him and told them that.

Most Hawaiians hate guns..

Did you take a poll or something?  Most Hawaiians I know don't hate guns. They own and use quite a few.

TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT??

Throughout history the first step in achieving a tyrannical government is the disarming of its citizens.

http://www.davekopel.com/NRO/2003/Hitler%27s-Control.htm

He's already proved the only reason he's here is to show his prejudice. I'd say just let him go. 

I find it ironic that most of the time it is the "5-percenters" you have to worry about. I have many Hawaiian friends; even family members and they're some of the friendliest people around.

But case in point...my brother's friend was playing basketball with his friends at a court in a nice neighborhood, not a run-down area. A group of so called Hawaiian guys came to the court demanding my brother's friend and his friends leave because "they owned this court". Rather than just leave they agree to have a basketball game, winner stays, loser leaves. Well the Hawaiian guys lost, got mad and beat up the other guys...then stole their cars while they were on the ground. I'm thankful my brother wasn't there but now he refuses to even go to that court because of that.

Another example though less violent; I was at Wal-Mart last year doing Christmas shopping with my brother and his friend (not the one who got assaulted). It was crowded and I accidentally bumped into a guy who was just standing in the middle of the aisle. I told him sorry and excused myself past him. Lo-and-behold the guy is another "5-percenter". He just seemed to get mad for some reason, he was in the typical "Like scrap?" pose, puffing his chest, eyes wide, staring down. I just kept walking.

I had to vent...I had a talk with a friend, she's Japanese and I wanted her input. She has that myth stuck in her head more guns = more deaths. What upset me most while talking to her was her comment that I can't be prepared for everything, I just have to be careful and take life as it comes. So...if I get mugged or assaulted while jogging or as pointed out above, playing basketball, I'm supposed to just accept the fact I'm going to be physically beaten? Would be worse for women because that would mean just accept the fact you're being raped was the jist of her comment.

I agree that Hawaii is a safe place compared to other states but for those instances when your safety is shaken/put at risk/violated, it changes, sometimes permanently, how you view your island home and paradise.

Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.


--- no need to come and start saying people are full of shit, please keep it respectful. FT

You know, all of ya'll are full of shit.  Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.

ur post mackes no cence,,, but hay,  welcum...  or welcum bakc?

Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.


--- no need to come and start saying people are full of shit, please keep it respectful. FT

Welcome.

Head over to the New Member thread in General Discussions and introduce yourself.

- Alex

Brah shoulda wen name himself 'da foOot'.

Back OT. Hawaii is notorious for fighting. Best learn some jiu jitsu, boxing, karate, etc. A gun doesn't guarantee you will be able to draw, fire effectively, hit targets etc. God forbid you fire and hit a bystander. If you don't have proficiency in some type of martial art, ccw will be mostly useless.

Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.


--- no need to come and start saying people are full of shit, please keep it respectful. FT

United States citizens do indeed have the right to bear arms. You miss the point that murder is already illegal.

Brah shoulda wen name himself 'da foOot'.

Back OT. Hawaii is notorious for fighting. Best learn some jiu jitsu, boxing, karate, etc. A gun doesn't guarantee you will be able to draw, fire effectively, hit targets etc. God forbid you fire and hit a bystander. If you don't have proficiency in some type of martial art, ccw will be mostly useless.

It doesn't matter if you know boxing, karate or whatever, majority of fights I've seen involve more than one person. Usually you'll get mobbed by the guy and his friends/family so kung-fu kicks and MMA submission moves won't do jack squat if you got 2 or 4 other guys beating you senseless.

Quote from: the foot on January 01, 2011, 05:06:44 PM

Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.


--- no need to come and start saying people are full of shit, please keep it respectful. FT

United States citizens do indeed have the right to bear arms. You miss the point that murder is already illegal.

I reread his post and he is saying that he is not in favor of classes/permits on ccw.  he is against any sort of infringement on the right to bear arms, as it it written in the constitution.  He's also stating that places that allow ccw the crime rate has decreased...

Quote from: tonsofguns on January 03, 2011, 09:05:07 AM

Brah shoulda wen name himself 'da foOot'.

Back OT. Hawaii is notorious for fighting. Best learn some jiu jitsu, boxing, karate, etc. A gun doesn't guarantee you will be able to draw, fire effectively, hit targets etc. God forbid you fire and hit a bystander. If you don't have proficiency in some type of martial art, ccw will be mostly useless.

It doesn't matter if you know boxing, karate or whatever, majority of fights I've seen involve more than one person. Usually you'll get mobbed by the guy and his friends/family so kung-fu kicks and MMA submission moves won't do jack squat if you got 2 or 4 other guys beating you senseless.

I think he's joking

Quote from: ross1459 on January 03, 2011, 11:00:36 AM

Quote from: the foot on January 01, 2011, 05:06:44 PM

Safe has nothing to do with whether people have the right to bear arms. 

You miss the point that in states where people have the right to carry the armed crime rate has decreased.


--- no need to come and start saying people are full of shit, please keep it respectful. FT

United States citizens do indeed have the right to bear arms. You miss the point that murder is already illegal.

I reread his post and he is saying that he is not in favor of classes/permits on ccw.  he is against any sort of infringement on the right to bear arms, as it it written in the constitution.  He's also stating that places that allow ccw the crime rate has decreased...

Quote from: Vladimir on January 04, 2011, 12:54:44 PM

Quote from: tonsofguns on January 03, 2011, 09:05:07 AM

Brah shoulda wen name himself 'da foOot'.

Back OT. Hawaii is notorious for fighting. Best learn some jiu jitsu, boxing, karate, etc. A gun doesn't guarantee you will be able to draw, fire effectively, hit targets etc. God forbid you fire and hit a bystander. If you don't have proficiency in some type of martial art, ccw will be mostly useless.

It doesn't matter if you know boxing, karate or whatever, majority of fights I've seen involve more than one person. Usually you'll get mobbed by the guy and his friends/family so kung-fu kicks and MMA submission moves won't do jack squat if you got 2 or 4 other guys beating you senseless.

I think he's joking

I've never been to good at finding jokes in posts. 

No no I was joking about the name," the foot". I was serious about learning some type of martial art.

And yes your right about being attacked by multiple attackers in that you could possibly be injured or worse. But your wrong in thinking that ccw is your only option.