Another Legal Open Carry Case (Read 2043 times)

Bunker

Another Legal Open Carry Case
« on: August 03, 2013, 09:10:40 PM »
In this case, Joshua Severance was handcuffed and fully detained and was doing nothing wrong. The Rutland PD in Vermont says these stops are routine and not out of the ordinary considering the recent rash of shootings in the area and community safety is priority. And they went on to say given the circumstances they followed appropriate protocol. Read more: http://www.timesargus.com/article/20130802/NEWS03/708029925

ButtNutt

Re: Another Legal Open Carry Case
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 11:50:05 AM »
I would use the similar logic the police used, on them.  IOW, were their actions wise or appropriate given the situation?  I'd say not. Their actions were out of hand, but not appropriate given general statistics and simple criminal mind logic.
1) IOW, would a criminal be carrying openly?  Of course not.  A criminal would not carry openly cause they wouldn't want to draw attention from other people and subsequently, police.  So that logic, that anyone/police are capable of, should have made the police understand it would be extremely unlikely for that guy to be a criminal or carrying an illegal firearm.
2) telling him to raise his hands?  That doesn't bother me entirely, but it should not have been the first step.  I would think, if there were two cops, they could've just had him fold his arms on his chest, and tell him to keep them there, while they ask his name and address, so one cop could run a check while the other watches him.  Once his name came up clean, depending on VT laws, if hand guns must be registered, then the check would have revealed he had a registered handgun.  If it revealed none, then they would be justified in cuffing him since it would appear he was carrying an unregistered handgun
3) if there was only one cop, he could have done the same, arms on chest, and called in to dispatch to run the check.....and same scenario after that as said above. 
4) but to say hands in the air and cuff and lock him in the car when VT is an open carry state?  No.  FE, in Hawaii, if a cop saw the same thing, I wouldn't question cuffing and detaining since there is no open carry here, and off duty hpd don't even seem to carry openly.  So what else could the guy be but a lawbreaker for carrying openly, in the very least?!
5) so after 3 and 4 above, if the check showed he had a registered weapon, they could have asked him to raise his hands so they could remove the weapon and check the serial number themselves.
Steps 3,4,and 5 would seem like the best course of action in that scenario.

bass monkey

Re: Another Legal Open Carry Case
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 12:06:27 PM »
I would use the similar logic the police used, on them.  IOW, were their actions wise or appropriate given the situation?  I'd say not. Their actions were out of hand, but not appropriate given general statistics and simple criminal mind logic.
1) IOW, would a criminal be carrying openly?  Of course not.  A criminal would not carry openly cause they wouldn't want to draw attention from other people and subsequently, police.  So that logic, that anyone/police are capable of, should have made the police understand it would be extremely unlikely for that guy to be a criminal or carrying an illegal firearm.
2) telling him to raise his hands?  That doesn't bother me entirely, but it should not have been the first step.  I would think, if there were two cops, they could've just had him fold his arms on his chest, and tell him to keep them there, while they ask his name and address, so one cop could run a check while the other watches him.  Once his name came up clean, depending on VT laws, if hand guns must be registered, then the check would have revealed he had a registered handgun.  If it revealed none, then they would be justified in cuffing him since it would appear he was carrying an unregistered handgun
3) if there was only one cop, he could have done the same, arms on chest, and called in to dispatch to run the check.....and same scenario after that as said above. 
4) but to say hands in the air and cuff and lock him in the car when VT is an open carry state?  No.  FE, in Hawaii, if a cop saw the same thing, I wouldn't question cuffing and detaining since there is no open carry here, and off duty hpd don't even seem to carry openly.  So what else could the guy be but a lawbreaker for carrying openly, in the very least?!
5) so after 3 and 4 above, if the check showed he had a registered weapon, they could have asked him to raise his hands so they could remove the weapon and check the serial number themselves.
Steps 3,4,and 5 would seem like the best course of action in that scenario.


Problem is, dude is doing nothing wrong.   As you say, nothing illegal or suspicious about walking down the street opening carrying.  What was the reason for the stop?  What was the reason for detainment?
Dude is smart though, to just follow directions and not resist and get his ass shot.  No point in being "right" if your dead/getting shot at by police.

ButtNutt

Re: Another Legal Open Carry Case
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »
Yeah.  Props to him for playin like da fonz......being cool helps in court.