Talk about overkill...the guy was 95.

Family members are questioning the death of a 95-year-old WWII U.S. Air Corps sergeant who was killed by cops at an assisted living center last month after resisting medical treatment.

John Wrana died from injuries sustained in an incident, which was later ruled as a homicide by the medical examiner, by Park Forest police on July 27. Police were called to Victory Centre, according to the Chicago Tribune, when it was reported by faculty that he was being “combative,” resisting medical treatment to which he was being “involuntarily” committed to.

A press release from the police department emailed to the Chicago Tribune stated that Wrana was threatening staff and paramedics with his metal cane and a 2-foot shoehorn. The report states he later picked up a 12-inch knife.

The Tribune reported that police ordered the man to surrender, but his failure to do so and continued threats resulted in them using a Taser on him and then shooting him with small bean bags. Wrana dropped the knife and was taken to the hospital at this point.

Wrana was conscious when he arrived at a local hospital but died in the early morning hours. The Southtown Star reported the Cook County medical examiner’s office conducting an autopsy that found Wrana died from being shot in the stomach with the 12-gauge shotgun with bean-bag ammo.

Read more: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/05/95-year-old-vet-dead-after-resisting-medical-treatment-tased-and-shot-with-bean-bags-by-cops/

No disrespect to the dead man but, he did wave a knife at police officers and refused to drop it.

If you or I did that, we would be shot dead where we stand.

The officers attempted to stop the threat without seriously hurting the man.

you or I aren't 95 years old either. I doubt the guy is much of a threat even with a knife for a trained officer. The story only says he "picked up a 12 knife" which as we all know means he probably cut some cucumber earlier in the day with it then spun by the media.

Either way, Just goes to show you're better off going out and having a fishing or hunting "accident" before you end up in a home!

Aren't beanbags supposed to be ricocheted off the pavement for use against rioters?  A direct shot to the belly at ciose range (if that's what happened) is bound to be pretty damaging.  I await some accurate reportage on this incident.

I may be waiting a loooooong time.

Terry, 230RN

I'm sorry but I disagree.

I know an 82 year old man that can draw a knife and cut your throat faster than you can unholster an OWB carried firearm.

Knives are deadly weapons.

The staff called the police on the man because he was threatening people there.

I know it sucks to see, but it seems the police tried to preserve life.

Five to seven police with riot shields and they believe shooting a 95 year old with a bean bag from a shotgun is their best option. At 95 years old, internal bleeding can occur very easily and these guys should have at least considered that before they fired a bean bag at his stomach. The guy is sitting in a chair and poses no threat to staff (they were removed) and the police refuse to let staff try to calm him down verbally. I'm not saying they shouldn't have stabilized the situation but this one just seems excessive to me.

According to Grapsas, staff and family who were at the assisted-living center at the time of the incident said they didn’t see Wrana pick up a knife. They also noted that he was sitting a chair during the altercation, meaning they believe such a show of force from authorities might not have been warranted.

The Chicago Tribune’s John Kass reported Maria Oliva with Pathway Senior Living, which runs the assisted-living center, saying staff was not in the room after police arrived to subdue Wrana. This, Kass said, shows “there was no imminent threat to staff” at the time Wrana would have picked up the alleged knife.

Kass also reported that after police barred staff from the room, workers expressed how they wished to re-enter to try and calm Wrana again. They were refused.

“At some point, I’m told there were between five and seven police officers, they went back to the room with a riot shield in hand, entered the door and shot him with a shotgun that contained bean-bag rounds.”

“I’ve never met a police officer who couldn’t handle a 95-year-old man in a walker. And John Wrana wasn’t Jason Bourne. He was an old war veteran who didn’t want to be pushed around,” Kass wrote.

Still, Kass reported a senior police official, who too thought at first the tactics used by police in this instance might have been excessive, saying that we don’t know exactly what law enforcement was faced with in the moment they made these decisions.

Five to seven police with riot shields and they believe shooting a 95 year old with a bean bag from a shotgun is their best option. At 95 years old, internal bleeding can occur very easily and these guys should have at least considered that before they fired a bean bag at his stomach. The guy is sitting in a chair and poses no threat to staff (they were removed) and the police refuse to let staff try to calm him down verbally. I'm not saying they shouldn't have stabilized the situation but this one just seems excessive to me.

Possibly, I guess if and when you consider his age it can be considered excessive.

You know you're trained to shoot center mass though.

Whether less lethal or conventional firearm.

Possibly, I guess if and when you consider his age it can be considered excessive.

You know you're trained to shoot center mass though.

Whether less lethal or conventional firearm.

True on the center mass but I just can't imagine any 95 year old that 5-7 trained police couldn't deal with less forcefully. Hell, I don't even think I know anybody 95 to begin with.

True on the center mass but I just can't imagine any 95 year old that 5-7 trained police couldn't deal with less forcefully. Hell, I don't even think I know anybody 95 to begin with.

I have an uncle that's 95. He's so fragile.

The disparity of force is very overwhelming but a knife makes it where it's hard to do anything.
I would have got pepper spray and hosed him.
Who knows though, he might not have survived that either.

Now I am not joking here: they could have laid siege on him and waited until he fell asleep.

Now I am not joking here: they could have laid siege on him and waited until he fell asleep.

Or they could have just sent Deedy in on this one...same end result.

I wonder couldn't they have just waited it out .... I mean how long can a 95-year-old man really be awake and swing a knife or other instruments around I'm presuming he must have some some type of dementia/Alzheimer's to some extent even if it's in the beginning stages. From what I read I think cops deserve to be punished a little bit Maybe some form of suspension or desk duty but not to have their badge taken away.

I saw an episode of Alaska state troopers where there was this guy holed up in his house who was supposedly a veteran sniper. His gf called the cops because he was acting violent, PTSD or whatever. She was out staying with family or something. The guy said he would shoot anyone coming to get him. The cops finally got him on the phone and he confirmed that he didn't want to be messed with. The cops said ok and left him alone. No one was hurt. No one was arrested. End of story.

Why can't more cops be like that. It's ok for police to back down sometimes. The lines between military and law enforcement are blurred more everyday. We are going to see more and more stories like this.

For that TV show, the cameras were rolling, no?

Anyway cops are people. There are ones that make good decisions and then others that make bad ones.

The guy was a Merrill's Marauder (I am almost 100% sure)...my Grandfather was a original (not replacement as he puts it) Merrill's Marauder. That is the unit that eventually became the 75th Ranger Regiment. The only unit ever that everyone received a bronze star! I called my Grandpa and he thinks he actually remembered the name. Every year, there is a reunion where all that can still make it get together. Sorry, I digress.

I think it is all bullshit...the dude was 95 years old. He was only agitated because the place he was living was trying to force him to have a medical procedure against his will. To show up to a retirement home to deal with a 95 year old agitated man in SWAT gear...I just don't know. Tased, shot with bean bags and died all because he didn't want a medical procedure that he had the right to refuse. This is a very sad story...

merrill's marauders were high speed, low drag before high tech gear was invented
your grandad must be amazing

The guy was a Merrill's Marauder (I am almost 100% sure)...my Grandfather was a original (not replacement as he puts it) Merrill's Marauder. That is the unit that eventually became the 75th Ranger Regiment. The only unit ever that everyone received a bronze star! I called my Grandpa and he thinks he actually remembered the name. Every year, there is a reunion where all that can still make it get together. Sorry, I digress.

I think it is all bullshit...the dude was 95 years old. He was only agitated because the place he was living was trying to force him to have a medical procedure against his will. To show up to a retirement home to deal with a 95 year old agitated man in SWAT gear...I just don't know. Tased, shot with bean bags and died all because he didn't want a medical procedure that he had the right to refuse. This is a very sad story...

merrill's marauders were high speed, low drag before high tech gear was invented
your grandad must be amazing

Thanks brother! I certainly like to think so...

The guy was a Merrill's Marauder (I am almost 100% sure)...my Grandfather was a original (not replacement as he puts it) Merrill's Marauder. That is the unit that eventually became the 75th Ranger Regiment. The only unit ever that everyone received a bronze star! I called my Grandpa and he thinks he actually remembered the name. Every year, there is a reunion where all that can still make it get together. Sorry, I digress.

I think it is all bullshit...the dude was 95 years old. He was only agitated because the place he was living was trying to force him to have a medical procedure against his will. To show up to a retirement home to deal with a 95 year old agitated man in SWAT gear...I just don't know. Tased, shot with bean bags and died all because he didn't want a medical procedure that he had the right to refuse. This is a very sad story...

They aren't called the greatest generation for no reason.

I repeat my question:

Aren't beanbags supposed to be ricocheted off the pavement for use against rioters?  A direct shot to the belly at ciose range (if that's what happened) is bound to be pretty damaging.

A "beanbag," or flexible baton, contains 1.4 oz of #9 lead shot and is fired at around 300 feet per second, according to wiki.  This is an energy of about 122 foot-pounds if my arithmetic is correct.

I submit that a direct hit in the torso at "room distances" on a 95 year old man with that load is "less than lethal" only in the most optimistic frame of mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round#Dangers

And tasered on top of that?

With the presently-available data, I call it excessive force, and I don't think anyone can change my mind about that unless mitigating data emerges.

Terry

Fellows, I have devoted my career to taking care of our elders in Hawaii.
http://www.halekuike.com/

There is a big difference between an 85 year old and a 95 year old.  85 is old.  95 is really old.  If you are a man, and you reach 95...you are lucky if you can still walk (with a walker).  Most of us dudes knock off well before then.

Add dementia, delusions, confusion to the mix and good lord...there is no reason to use that kind of force on a frail, confused, 95 year old (unless he had a gun). 

The police do not understand dementia and that is why they used force.   What are the police supposed to do...arrest him?  There are other options like backing off.  Getting the other residents out of the area.  Letting the person calm down.  Giving a PRN medication and looking at the big picture to come up with a long term plan. 

Providing excellent dementia care takes knowledge and effort.  That gentleman was put in the assisted living facility because they were supposed to be the experts.  In my eyes they failed him. 

This is a sad story.
Dave